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It seems like the big thrill these days is seeing how far away a guy can plug an animal from. I wonder how many people still try to see how close they can get before they start licking their finger and putting it in the air and twisting scope knobs. I was just observing a herd from roughly 300 yds today and thinking that it should be pretty easy to get at least THAT close to an animal without spooking it. Is it just me, or has getting closer become "the old way" to hunt? AK-47 The only Communist Idea that Liberals don't like. | ||
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I think it depends on the hunter, the terrain, the vegetation, and the game. It's thick where I live, so I used to think that you had to be close. Then I went elk hunting with some guys whose methods differ drastically from mine, and suddenly I was seeing them half a mile away. Still ended up shooting my bull at 110 yards, though... Okie John "The 30-06 works. Period." --Finn Aagaard | |||
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I live in SouthEastern Montana. I can see forever some places I hunt yet still like to get close. I have still never taken a shot at a Big Game animal over 400 yards+/- ___________________________________________________________________________________ Give me the simple life; an AK-47, a good guard dog and a nymphomaniac who owns a liquor store. | |||
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I love getting close. 75 yards and under is my favorite. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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It matters to me. Close is clean, cool and rewarding. Nothing against "not close" either as I have done that too. Elk at a mile; no thanks. That is reserved for enemy combatants not game. "The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights." ~George Washington - 1789 | |||
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Hunters have been stretching the range they shoot at animals for ever. That's why the throwing rocks, spears, slings, atlatls, bows and arrows, firearms better, firearms, optics bigger shotguns better shot and shot cups . A lot of the older hunting books write about taking longer shots. Long range shooting contests have been taking place for a long time. I shot big game at less then 10 feet to many hundreds of yards. I take the shot that is necessary to secure the game I am hunting. | |||
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TV hunting show are promoting long range hunting. And the sponsors for these programs sell long range hunting equipment. The closer the better for me. Last five big game I shot were under 50 yards, last one a hog at under 15 yards. Plus a bobcat almost straight down from a tripod stand, a scope does not work well at 12 feet. M | |||
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"Long Range Hunting" is an oxymoron. Or at least partly so. I suppose some consider just finding game "hunting." My view is if by positioning yourself far enough away that you're taking the possibility of an animal detecting you by removing its ability to use its senses you're no longer fully hunting. You're just killing. Most of this LRH stuff is just an excuse to use an animal as a platform by which to exhibit one's ego. Anyone can be taught to shoot consistently past 500 yards. But learning how to stalk successfully is a much more difficult skill to acquire. I don't think it's a coincidence that the fad of LRH has coincided with digital cameras, the internet, and Facebook. Everyone is a hero in their own minds in this day of selfies and social media... 15 minutes of fame indeed.  | |||
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There is no one size fits all. I prefer 100 yards or less. Two hundred plus and I analyse the situation for a bit before taking or passing. My only concern with the "Long Range" concept is its possible effects on the image of hunters in general. To me and it is strictly my personal thought on the matter is that purposely setting up, even with the proper equipment, and shooting at animals at ranges in excess of 500 yards, turns hunting into sniping, basically a military practice. It is one thing when shooting at a target that can and will shoot back, I view it as something completely different when it is a target feeding along that has no inkling that the shooter is even in the country. To each their own however. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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The old way to hunt is still my way. Yes I can make a 400 yard shot, but I would rather not. Stalking up close is still a skill I think defines hunting. | |||
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Doesn't do anything for me. I like to get as close as possible before shooting. Unless I'm shooting prairie dogs, then all bets are off. | |||
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If their not powder burned, It's a long shot. Long shots are not for me. Dave | |||
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I limit my hunting to 300 yard shots with a standard ole mod. 70 or Mauser..I try to close that distance as much as I can, if I can..I prefer 50 yard shots and I like to sneak up on'em...Ive made some real long shots in my youth and on whims.. I thought everyone did that, until I found the internet and TV... To me that's the difference between a hunter and a shooter..This sniper thing is out of control IMO...Idaho had to make 50 caliber BMGs and such illegal as they were wounding too many elk from the road out to 2000 yards..Lot of blown off legs.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I have shot Elk with a Bow at 20 yards. I have also shot Elk at over 400 yards with a rifle. I would pick the 20 yard shot every time!!! | |||
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I one of the latest Sports Afield retro mags. they had a story by Jack O'Connor and a cues deer in Mexico. Every encounter was more long shot wounding affair, and occasionally they found one. You would never here about this kind of "hunting" today. Now we have the technology to wound animals farther. I read all the time about on this forum about the "300 yrs. shot" as if it were a chip shot. I would love to have an AR shoot where we shot at 300 yard targets with our hunting rifles in field conditions/positions and see how the "chips" fall. 300 yards is a fair piece and I would imagine a great deal of hunters never truly have had to make that shot. "Taking a whack at it," is not a new concept. | |||
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Come on out some fall and see just what kind of damage some of these 'hunters' can wreak on antelope. Not for me. | |||
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To me, the issue is, hunting in general is under attack from many corners. What has to be considered is when does "Hunting" cross the line, where hunters in general can no longer defend the actions of some people! Where or when do hunters unite and say that we have to start policing ourselves, before we lose the ability to hunt. Where is the line drawn and who draws it/ | |||
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Under 100 yards Id rather watch and take a picture...I get all sentimental. To be honest I would rather sit and watch animals up close all day and shoot at 100 to 300 yards. I am happy to make a 400 yard shot on deer if conditions are right. I have not missed or lost, or shot an animal more than once at that distance and I have only done it a few times. I will admit I get more of a feeling of accomplishment from that than I do from the dozens of deer I have shot from 5 to 50 yards. | |||
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Ya'll make a lot of great points. I am as much of a fan of "pipping the ace" as the next guy, I enjoy target shooting and see it as an inseparable part of hunting basics. Making long shots is fun, on targets! But I still subscribe to getting as close as possible when big game is the objective. I dont think I have ever taken a shot at a deer or larger over 350 yds. I am good with developing the ability, but I certainly dont see the need. Maybe a little more for a speed goat as they can be pretty skittish and dont take much to drop. But if I cant get within 3-400 yds, Ill wait for the next one. 50 yds is even better! Too much shit that can go wrong when you get much farther than that. AK-47 The only Communist Idea that Liberals don't like. | |||
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I am not sure that I have this right, but one time I read an article someone wrote in one of the hunting magazines, concerning hunting Speed Goats. They had interviewed Ross Seyfried, and asked him what his farthest shot had been on a speed goat. Supposedly he took a piece of paper and did some figuring and came up with something like 577 yards. The person doing the interview made some remark about that distance and Ross stated that it was the total yardage of ALL the antelope he had killed over the years. If a person wants to do the long range shooting, that is their choice, but I would like folks to think about such things and the image it gives hunters in general. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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I'm not nearly as well-versed in hunting as some guys on here, but I see no reason for the long range stuff. I've shot at and killed only one animal at more than 300 yards - a kudu in Namibia. I've killed about two dozen pronghorn in various terrain and the longest shot was 289 yards; most were much less. I bowhunted a lot in high school and college and learned early on the importance of getting close, and worked hard to develop that skill. Now I like to hunt with muzzleloaders, specialty handguns, and rifles, but try to use the same skills to get close enough to give myself an "easy" shot. I know there are some who can make those long shots, but as pointed out by a previous poster, I suspect very few of us can regularly make those long shots from field positions on live game. _____________________ A successful man is one who earns more money than his wife can spend. | |||
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I agree. I see even more trouble on the way for all hunters. As if we dont have enough already. AK-47 The only Communist Idea that Liberals don't like. | |||
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IMO the very best rifle practice is using your hunting rifle and loads for shooting pr/dogs. Sure can learn your rifle and loads that way. I used to do a lot of that with my '06. Sure went a long way toward developing my shooting ability. Need to get back to it again. Seems like I made one shot about 300yds on an antelope once. Then another time with the new 7mmag. We dogged a half dozen over the hills for a couple miles, just loping along and not running them much. Lots of standing and watching before they started off again. They hadn't been hunted there much in those years. Dad told me: "you have a flat shooting rifle, try it" "too damned far for me". Uncle Frank said to get out there and try it. So I did, rested over a fence post and fired. The buck flipped end over end. I was more surprised than the buck was I'm sure. Frank measured it at 600yds. IF I'd known it was that far I wouldn't have done it. They were quartering away. I hit it in the back over the flank and exited the other shoulder, dead as they get. Nearly all game I've shot were under 200yds. But, I do believe in being in practice just in case I can't get any closer. Fellow I sold my M-700 .243 to last summer says he's been "hammering a white rock at 800yds with it all day sessions". I just gave him half dozen 1/2" steel plates 2' sq for targets. He plans on making them from 250 to a mile. Good place to practice out in the flat barren plains he lives. No more shooting than I've done in the past 4 yrs I'd be concerned at 200yds. I never ever take a game shot unless with a good solid rest. We've even shot pr/dogs with Dad's .375 for practice and to burn up older ammo. Don't take many with that beater to be enough. George "Gun Control is NOT about Guns' "It's about Control!!" Join the NRA today!" LM: NRA, DAV, George L. Dwight | |||
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It seems to me that there is a big difference between hunting and shooting. Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times. | |||
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A dedicated long range shooter puts a helluva lot more work into his rifle and his shooting than at least 95% of "regular" hunters. If the shooter has the ability and that's the way he likes to hunt, he should be allowed to hunt the way he enjoys without others throwing rocks at his choices. BTW I don't count myself among the dedicated long range shooters, but I'm not telling someone how he should enjoy his hunting because I don't choose to do it that way. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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If a guy wants to show he has "big dick ego" by shooting LR, then do it on gongs and paper, not on living animals that can move before the round gets there! | |||
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+1. Hunting seems to be going the way so many things have culturally over the last decade or so . . . trending towards a lack of responsibility and a sense of "I will do whatever I damn well please". Perhaps that explains the increasingly negative public perception of hunting. Mike | |||
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In my mind...getting close is the point. | |||
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Or a change in wind after the trigger is pulled. | |||
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I am sure there is a lot of truth in that, at least for some people. But that doesnt mean that all who want to shoot an Elk @ 700+ yds (as a hypothetical) are highly practiced and very capable. Lumping people into categories is never a good idea IMHO. And, when a person shoots far enough away that the animal can cause a miss or a really bad shot simply by moving AFTER the shot has been fired, all the equipment and practice in the world wont change that fact. On the other hand, things can and do go wrong when hunting at average distances as well. I think Randall is right on the money. The greater point is to get hunters to think and make responsible choices, whatever their preference/ ability's are. AK-47 The only Communist Idea that Liberals don't like. | |||
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I've made a few longish shots, and I'd do them again if need be, but the last ten years' antelopes were all under 100 yards. There will usually be a better shot tomorrow or the next day... TomP Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right. Carl Schurz (1829 - 1906) | |||
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Lots of good posts here. I think Brad nailed it. I have seen some real shouting matches erupt over this topic on other forums, but for some of these long-range yahoos it's almost like calling in artillery. I just don't understand the attraction when a magnificent animal like a bull elk's humane dispatch is at stake. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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It matters a lot if you want to maximize your chances of making a clean kill with the first shot Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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Hunting for me has always been about being in with the game, the wildlife. Hunting is participating, not observing. Duck hunting for many of us is improved cylinder chokes over decoys. Pheasant hunting is an improved cylinder choke over a flushing dog. Calling moose in the rut is to call them in close, whitetails in a deer stand with a Remington Model 8 is close range. I've not the slightest interest in long range hunting. I've belly crawled thru cactus to get within range of a nice mule deer buck, wouldn't have it any other way. | |||
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What do all of the above posters consider long range? A hunter that lives in the pines of lower Mississippi would not have the same opinion as a hunter in Northeast New Mexico. Most hunters don't have near enough trigger time to understand or have the discipline required to routinely be accurate at long range with field equipment and field conditions. ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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I think the idea that "eastern" hunters don't have the ability or opportunity to shoot long range is...well..BS. Our family farm..cranberry marsh...is about 4500 acres, of mostly open beds and if one wanted to you could shoot damn near across the whole thing. I'll let some do the math, but there is no western Hunter that has ever shot an animal that far. | |||
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So if you aren't in that big cranberry marsh what is the rest of the country like, what length are your shots then? This topic has been hammered out here before and nothing gets resolved and ultimately people go away offended. People hunt in different conditions across the nation and it is typical for people to base their opinions on the type of hunting they do and find no room for anyone else's situation. Some people practice at longer ranges than other people, some are incapable of making a 200 yard shot, some people who have never hunted the west or have been here once or twice think you should be able to get closer and others know you can't get closer in some situations. As long as there are people with opinions this topic will never be anything but a topic that spawns arguments... | |||
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I have a vivid memory from I dunno, thirty or more years ago on a deer hunt. I got out of the pickup at first light and made my way on foot over some lumpy terrain. Barely away from the auto and almost to dark to shoot, I certainly wasn't paying attention and my rifle was balanced over my shoulder. I crossed over the top of this little lump on some short dry grass and here laying down on the other side of the lump were these two nice looking bucks, bodies facing away from me but both turned looking back dead at me. More or less 20 feet between us. Well I thought, "I know how this is gonna turn out, but I'll try and slide my rifle off my shoulder anyway." I barely slid that gun an inch, and in a flash they were on their feet and gone. No chance, no opportunity. Man that was a hunt and I remember it far better and fonder than any casual snipe from afar I don't seem to recall. I think its about being in with them, among them, a part of them. I'll be sharing that with mine own. | |||
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I know of several places that I hunt in Colorado that getting close is 200/250 yards ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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I hear you Scott, memories for sure. I grew up in Oregon, western Oregon, dense thick and usually short shots. I live in Colorado and have since 1986, have been lucky enough to hunt many western states, Alaska and one trip for plains game to South Africa. One thing I've learned is that a hunter that is ready and able to sneak in on game and make an accurate shot at 10 yards and if the same hunter has shooting skills to 400-450 yards if conditions are right then you are well prepared to kill animals all over this planet. That coupled with patience, good judgement, and did I say shooting skills? | |||
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