I have seen a bunch of people post on calibers needed,things you have to have,and without quality products,your gunna loose?Not true.....

I was born and raised in Idaho and caliber doesn't matter if you have the skill within reason.Bushnel Binocs works for me and plain old Sorells work in the snow and surplus wool works just fine.My god,I worked six days a week in the snow up to my waste in the winter and ran up and down the mountains,summer and winter.Not a goverment employee but a logger ,payed by what you do in board feet.

Go ahead and let me have it,but compare your experience in the woods and Elk hunting to mine.Alot hunt in Idaho close to where I live,(Elk City-The Selway etc).You guys or a few gave Ray Atkinson hell for his experience compared to a week or two hunting Elk a year here and a year there.

Not aimed at all of you,just a few know it alls.......

Sorry....Jayco.

I have a good friend who is getting pretty far along in age now. He's a died in the wool Montana boy. His hunting rig is and has been (since the early 60's) a military surplus 03, '06, Springfield bought through the NRA for 18$, no scope, and the cheapest, on sale, Wal-Mart ammo he can find. For years he shot only surplus ammo. He gets his bull and a cow every year but now needs help with the packing chores. He does it all on foot and always has. Surplus wool clothing and a wool stocking hat. Makes you kinda wonder, dont it?

And, his net worth is well north of 1mm$. There's more than a few ole country boys out there like him but they dont pee away their time on a computer talking about it.

Good thread, Jayco.

Dungbeetle

Yes, I am the same way. I hunt in surplus army wool pants and use a 15 year old Redfield golden five star 3X9 scope. My 7 X 50 binoculars are made by Apollo which are no linger in business. They work just fine. My hunting fixed blade knife with an old leather sheath is my Dads I have had for 40 years. Wool gloves and hat are always with me as is an old military wood frame canvas day pack.

I reload my ammo with plain old Hornady bullets. My sleeping bag is a military cold weather feather bag with a military coot. I have five wool shirts that I picked up at a Salvation Army store along with a solid striped green wool jacket. The store employee said that a older lady came in and donated these items as her husband had recently died and wanted to get ride of them. Wow, was I lucky that day. The shirts went for 3.00 dollars each and the jacket for 15.00 ! Cabela�s, eat your heart out!

I still hunt in surplus wool pants --- in the late season anyway. I even have no-name PORRO prism binoculars.

Still, I've got your fellows beat. I hunt in a 2wd Toyota pickup, through most of the season...... I need that truck money for those expensive match grade barrels that the brown truck keeps bringing

I know, I know, you can't hunt with less than a 3/4 ton 4wd with at least two grand worth of tires. Just nobody tell my Toyota..... LOL! Dutch.

You don't need high end equipment to be successful in killing elk.Physical conditioning and hunting areas that actually have what it takes to support elk is what counts.

Most people like to buy gear,because its easier to sit around on your nuts and talk about hunting elk,then it is to actually get into shape and stay in shape year round and hunt. Most of the people you listen to talking about needing all this gear,haven't seen elk in years and spend most of their time trying not to fall into a campfire,while half shitfaced telling stories of yesteryear.

A good topic in conjuction with this thread,would be how many elk hunters have actually seen elk every season.

Real stuff comments here, all of them. For me, first on the list is being able to properly use whatever the gun is that I am carrying. I have a fondness for the 8MM RM, but it is by no means the only elk gun. Hate to admit it but 243 has worked for me, gone up from there. You have to take out heart/lungs or CNS, or be willing to engage a long and probably fruitless followup. I think that is true of just about any cartridge, however. A bad hit is not made better by more gun, usually.

Conditioning is second, as others have mentioned.

I think one of the big factors is how close you are to the hunting grounds when you are just making a living. If it is your backyard, you may have more chances to get a good shot on an elk than if you live 2000 miles away. If you live 2000 miles away, when you get to the hunting grounds you may feel you need every advantage you can muster so as to increase the number of good shooting opportunies that cross your path. That may mean a bigger more powerful cartridge/gun combo. I have known a few elk hunters, quite successful BTW, that used the 25-06, not my personal choice. The most successful of them lived about 5 miles from his hunting ground, always got his elk. If he had to make a long trip for a single chance at an elk, he would have taken something else.

One of the most used pieces of "other" gear I've seen is a winch made out of a chainsaw. Gets elk out of a canyon in good fashion. In parts of Idaho, you might want to carry this with you.

It is easy to overlook the real advantages that living next to or on the hunting grounds can give the hunter. Not every hunter has that advantage.

Ahhhh, common sense is such a relief! A "gadget man" is fun to watch, frustrating to hunt with. I used to hunt with a guy who carried a .425 Express, wore swishy insulated coveralls in 60� weather, walked with his head down, and only killed a gift bull one of out 6 years. No amount of talking, suggesting, or anything could get him out of those damned coveralls. I finally couldn't take it anymore.

There are savvy hunters out there who are smart, in shape, and own a new rifle. Generally speaking, the knowledge, woods smarts, and skills need to come WAY before you worry about the latest 3000 Remchester SuperHot Bangingbuster with 3 pound scope. I laugh at guys who buy a .300 Magnum and hang a cheap 4x-16x scope on it. The highest power scope I have is a 2x-7x. I keep it turned down, and use my binocular to stare at other hunters with!

Oh well, I guess its this sort of stuff that keeps things interesting. This thread will no doubt grow exponentially.

I've shot elk with 243 on up successfully. My favorite elk rifle is a .35 Whelen Rem 7600. When I lived in Wyoming, at least I could always get a tag. I didn't draw in 2 states this year.

8MM OR MORE,

What a great post!

I think wild elk are killed in most places with just about everything from a .270 Win. to a .338 Win. Mag., and the vast majority of elk hunters use off-the-shelf Remington 700, Winchester Model 70, and Ruger 77 rifles, with more and more Browning A-Bolts added every year. Semi-custom and custom synthetic-stocked rifles (various actions and calibers) have made big inroads over the last ten or more years as well. No, you don't need the high-end stuff unless you have your own set of reasons for wanting it, and can afford it.

A good elk rifle is a rifle of sufficient power and reliability that can be shot well by the hunter. If that means a Remington 700 BDL in .30-06 that you've had since 1978, then so be it. I have found that a rifle gets even more effective once you've used it for a while, and after you've have some prior successes with it. The main thing is, get one good rifle, the best you can afford (goes for scopes, too) and stick with it. Rifle familiarity is a very big deal. You don't need a .318 Ultra Gag, and unless you can shoot the Ultra Gag as well as you can your .30-06 or 7mm Remington Magnum, forget about it. Shot placment comes first, followed by bullet construction. A cool head pressing the trigger is also worth a whole lot more than an ultra-powerful cartridge.

You need to be able to get up the mountain and back, and you need to be able to somehow get any elk you shoot off the mountain, so yes indeed, you do need to be in good physical condition. You need boots that won't work against you, and you need to have the clothes and footwear that'll handle any sort of weather you might run into, and keep you warm when wet. You don't need yuppie label Patagonia stuff, and as mentioned, good surplus wool pants are as good as anything you can buy when it's cold and wet.

You need to learn how to dress in layers, and you need a pack that's neither too big nor too small, but will carry what you need for a day's worth of hunting, and for a stay overnight on the mountain if need be. You need to be able to build a fire and procure safe drinking water, and you need to be proficient at orienteering (no guesswork), and you need to always keep in mind that it's one thing to stumble your way into the bush, and sometimes quite another to find your way back out.

Beyond that, you need to be able to find and spot a shootable elk (you do need binoculars) and know how to intelligently proceed, then, to get said elk on the ground. Once it's on the ground, you must be able to safely field dress it without injuring yourself or ruining the meat, and you need a plan and a methodolyogy to get it back to camp.

Those are the basics in my opinion.........

AD

Jaycocreek,

I agree with what you said. In addition you can take what Allen just said and have it tattoed on your arm. Or carve it in with a knife. Anything to remember what he said. All good points and lots of good common sense info.

jaycocreek ,I really think that most of us western boys grew up very much as you did.I have spent my growing up years around Mt St Helens, Kellog,Id and Kalispell,Mt. As Customstox and allen stated,we all started out using what we had, now that we can afford better we use those items. There is always better equipment that will make the job much easier and more pleasent.

jaycocreek,



What a well-dressed hunter wore on the North Kaibab 40 years ago. Outfit works for elk, too. -TONY

Funny to read how most of us who live up in the taters run around dressed like Army-Navy store ragamuffins. Since we live here, we're likely to be hunting with neighbors or relatives, nearby and on short notice, so it's almost Come-As-You-Are. I'll bet most of us look like that all winter long! I do!

If I were going somewhere far away to hunt, I'd likely worry more about my gear as 8MM suggested. But I won't, so I don't.

Redial

That is because the Army/Navy stuff is usually within our price range and works!! I think people forget that wool and down even exist anymore. All about the Goretex, Thinsulate, etc. Don't get me wrong, they work great, but $300 for a goretex jacket can buy a guy several pairs of wool surplus pants, as well as a down coat or two and some pretty decent camo.
Usually the folks I encounter elk hunting that look like they just walked out of a Cabela's catalog should have spent more time planning their hunt that buying all that crap and pretending like they know what they're doing.

MG

That is the best post on this thread, IMHO.

I am an elk hunter, but not an expert. I have taken 4 elk in 6 tries, all with a .280 M70 Featherweight with 150 gr Nosler Partions. I hunt in the Bridger Teton Wilderness in Wyoming. I wear jeans, a down vest, poly pro long johns and Danner lightweight boots. I do not wear camo as I have never seen the need for it. I wear leather gloves. I ride a horse because I need to in order to cover the country. I hate horses - and the feeling is mutual. I use an outfitter that has guided our group for 30 years. I am a newcomer to the group as I have only been 6 times.

I think elk hunting is fun, but an enormous amount of work. The guys that do this for a living or live in the area year-round have my utmost respect and admiration. I am a flatlander and merely do what they suggest. I have yet to see a guide or outfitter equiped or dressed in anything that was not 100% functional. They don't wear camo, they use good bino's of a variety of brands. The one area they do not skimp on is the food. Thanks goodness.

Joe, those are good observations, and we're pretty-much on the same page.

My bottom line when it comes to elk hunting equipment or any sort of hunting equipment is that I buy and use what works best for me, when and as I can. If I can find a better mousetrap, I go with it. If that means Worsterlon shirts, polypropolene underwear, fleece outwear, etc. and I find it to work better, I adopt it. If I find more traditional clothing to work best for certain applications, such as Filson whipcord wool pants, I stick with that. If I can find a buy on heavy-duty wool surplus pants for cold weather, I'll buy 'em. Wool still works great much of the time, and for a whole lot of reasons!

But there's an attutude of reverse-discrimination about elk equipment that says any gear that hasn't been around since the days of Jack O'Connor or wasn't purchased at Walmart is strictly out, and is rightfully subject to ridicule--as if time stopped somehere back in the 1960s, or as if any gear that exceeds a Walmart budget is not only stupid, but unnecessary.

I remember hunting the south fork of the Imnaha one season with one of my friends, who just happened to be packing a .375 H&H. We bumped into a guy who noticed the barrel on my friend's H&H, and started asking him about the caliber. The guy declared, "you don't need nothing' but an Ought-Six!" He then asked, "What's that thing shoot, a 180 gr. bullet?" This guy probably didn't know anything about cartridges other than the .30-06, so I guess he felt duty-bound to defend his ignorance against all comers!

I've run into this sort of attitude countless times when it comes to rifles, cartridges, scopes, and related gear. Water always seems to seek its own level, and a great many people seem to want to impose their own limitations on everyone else.........

AD

Good gear makes a good hunter better in every respect, but no amount of good gear will make a poor, out of shape hunter better... sort of like throwing money at a problem that can't be corrected by any amount of money!

Brad, that's true, but at least the "out of shape" issue can be resolved by a simple committment to fitness.........

AD

Well said Brad. Here is my list in order of importance for successful hunting.

1.) Mental Attitude: The ability to stay positive when cold, tired, hungry, wet, not seeing game...

2.) Shooting Ability: This is not bench shooting. It is the ability to shoot quickly and accurately under field conditions while remaining cool.

3.) Physical Conditioning: Important for all hunting, doubly so in the mountains. You can't shoot something you can't get to. Conditioning has a big impact on #1 and #2.

4.) Proper Gear: As Brad stated good gear won't make a bad hunter good but it will make a good hunter better. Impacts #1. I believe in value when selecting gear. I like things that work and last. Sometimes they are expensive, sometimes not but it is cheaper in the long run to buy quality. I add to my gear over time and stick with what works. I see no need to run out and buy every new thing on the market but I also find it foolish to think that there are no new improvements over what I had when I started hunting 36 years ago.

5.) Choice of rifle and caliber. Probably the most fun to tinker with, talk about, and think about, but within reason the least important of the 5. By reason I mean adiquate caliber for the game hunted, reasonable accuracy, but must function regardless of conditions.

JMHO

Jeff

Get yourself in a good, below 40%, above 32% rain here in Washington and you'll only wear Jeans once... Our snow is usually wet too, so you might see me walking about with a set of Gor-Tex gators over my wool pants.



Over the years I've become a huge fan of good quality fleece coats, especially the type with a good wind break inside. It's lighter than a wool coat, and warm enough.



I guess the one piece of equipment though that has made the biggest difference in my success in hunting has been quality optics. When I first started, I didn't even use bino's. Now, I won't leave camp without them.



Other than that experience has made the most difference, and patience, especially for big trophy bucks which in my opinion are harder to get than big bulls. You don't bump into the big ones consistently by just "wandering around" through the woods. If I can get a tag, I feel pretty good about getting a big bull. Not so with big bucks.

Somehow I knew this thread would get several pairs of carbon-fiber panties in a bunch



I don't make fun of folks who hunt in NASA-engineered skivvies if it makes them happy. What I meant in my post is that we locals are more likely to hunt in a more, uh, "casual" attire than someone for whom the schedule is a lot tighter. We have next weekend if things don't work out this time. Besides, anything we kill will probably be quartered and dragged out on a plastic toboggan borrowed from our kids. Respect for the land, the animals, the experience and for your neighbors is learned, not bought.



FWIW, next Fall our merry band will out in our surplus wools, goofy hats and carrying our '06s. I'll spend the $$ on good boots, myself. You're more'n welcome to come with us no matter what you wear as long as it isn't a tutu or have GreenPeace stickers on it.



Cheers



Redial

Slave to Fashion

YOU mean People actually learn more how to Elk hunt by experience, than what they can learn reading stacks and stacks of magazine articles by experts, and buying tons of high tech equipment?

And I can do it without a 338 x 458 Winchester Magnum?

What a CONCEPT!!

seafire

and I

Well it looks like most of you boys come from a similar background as me; grew up in elk country hunting them with what we had, and what I could afford had to serve as more than just hunting clothes. I worked as a guide and licensed outfitter for a couple decades, and yes, my hunting stuff got a little better over time, but usually my clients had better stuff, and more of it, than me. Our "stuff" had no bearing our ability as a hunter, it was usually more indicitive of our financial status. I killed a lot of elk with my old Remmy '06, hunting in jeans and chaps, looking through cheap bino's, but I don't use that same old stuff anymore. The old Remmy has been remodeled as a custom .300 Jarrett wearing an excellent european scope, and easily has the capability of slam-dunking an elk at 5-600 yds. I look through Zeiss bino's and use a Leica rangefinder. I don't guide or outfit anymore, and I still work a job that doesn't dictate custom rifles, but I live to hunt and shoot, so I'm willing to scrimp and save for the deluxe gear. I got along with wet feet and a cold ass for long enough. My retirement fund is going up in smoke, gunsmoke that is.

That wet snow falling will sure make a believer in wool out of you, I'm remembering hunting elk on what used to be Mt St Helens. Bad enough to make you want a "go go gadget waterproof" function, eh?

I have killed only 4 or 5 elk but all with a common 30/06 and 180 grn. bullets. Never had to track one.
Now I sure agree with Allen on the boots...get those that do not work against you. One hunt in Colo I fell up the mtn. as much as I fell down the mtn. due to soles packed with snow. Get some boots that will dump snow and mud as you walk and give you some traction.
Layering and wool work as all agree.
However...the most important thing I think about hunting period is knowing how to build a fire and in a hell of a hurry. I don't care if it is in the mtns. or in Africa. Being able to build fire in a hurry is going to be the key to saving your butt before your hunting days are over.

Harry, I sure do agree about the ability to build a fire quickly (wet or dry), and I always carry matches, a lighter, tinder, plus flint & steel in my pack. I used to tear apart rotten old stumps around home for pitchwood, and I still have a big box of pitchwood stored away. This is my favorite tinder, along with strips of old sheeting saturated with sealing wax. It doesn't seem to matter what the weather is doing, or even if you have to stay out over night, just as long as you can get that fire going! It can sure cure a lot of ills, plus save your life....

AD

Allen, AMEN!

Chuck

I'll give a second "Amen" to Allen's sermon.



Here in dry Montana it's not too hard to get a fire going nearly any time, but I still have a tube of Mautz "Fire Ribbon" tucked away in a far-flung corner of my pack... one can never be too sure. Also, a good lunchtime fire when the temps are well below freezing can really put a lot more "hunt" into a guy's soul.



Brad



PS, this turned out to be an excellent thread... lot's of great practical advise and experience... really too much to even comment on. Only thing I'd add is I'd rather put hard earned cash into quality pack's, boots, clothing, optic's etc. (stuff for the hunt) than a closet full of rifles that never get used. For me, a good 300 Mag (300 WSM in my case) and a 30-06 backup is all I really need for any hunting I'll do. Throw in a 223 and I'm at a loss to find any more I "need." Addiction is, however, an old and predictable human characteristic!

On the other hand, a lot of us "greenhorn" elk hunters get criticized for wanting to buy all of this "stuff" for elk hunting, and it seems to me that the planning and the discussing and the shopping and the BSing and all of that stuff is part of it and makes it more fun. Anymore, for me at least, the actual hunting part of it (or should I say the shooting part of it) is anti-climactic as compared to everything else.

Blue

I think what really gets some "real elk hunters" blood boiling when it comes to greenhorns/armchair elk hunters is they for the most part can afford all the stuff we drempt about for years before we could afford. So we had to made due with what we had and made it work.

I like how some like you to believe that they are the best elk hunters in the west, or were born true elk hunters... what they forget is we ALL had to learn it somehow.

Now I know what I'm doing "wrong". I have too many gadgets and too much money invested in my hunting gear!!

I use nothing but Leupold scopes and have TWO pairs of high end binos, as well as a 20-42X high end spotter on a $300 tripod. They all complement my Leica rangefinder.

I use nothing but "premium" bullets, though NP's are probably on the low end when it comes to premiums. They sit in meticuously prepped cases with just the right load for that rifle. I obsess for days over loads,bullets,etc prior to the season.

I do confess though that most of my hunting clothes are a mix of Filson, Woolrich and GI issue. It's fairly dry here so snow/rain isn't a problem though windchill is. BUT.... I do have two pairs of expensive Russell boots!

My dilemma....... Obviously I'm one of those style over substance guys, So how come I shoot a bull and a buck every year?? Where am I going wrong?? Oh Yeah. When I check the time when I hunt I wear an old Rolex Submariner. No timex or LCD Quartz cheapies for me.

Hope some of you guys can set me straight.

FN in MT

Ivan

Just for the heck of it, I would be interested in hearing your definition of a

1. Real Elk hunter
2. Greenhorn Elk hunter
3. Armchair Elk hunter.

Blue

Very good thread, and alot of amens. I would like to second skibum's comment on the mental attitude. I've heard that 20% of the hunters shoot 80% of the Elk, and I believe it.

A lot of great points made about what works, but a lot of wasted effort criticizing gidgets and gadgets too IMO. Personally, as Im out hunting and bump into other hunters on the hill, I really dont give a tinkers damn about what theyre wearing or using, its whats beneath their hats that matters the most. I find it really interesting listening about the different reasons why one guy likes this or another uses that, sometimes there is a whole lot more to a guy then meets the eye, and conversely the ones I'd just as soon not bump into seem to have no particular dress code.

I have been hunting elk since just before I legally could. I have guided quite a few others. I cannot say I have killed on every hunt, but have had the opportunity to kill on almost all. I did not kill the raghorn I had in the sights of my muzzle loader last year. I directly helped 6 other hunters kill their elk including 3 who had never killed elk before.
While I have personally killed most of my elk with a 30-06 I will be using a 300 SAUM this year. Show me a person with a well used 270 winchester over a super Ultra mag. Show me someone with a super ultra mag over a 243 they cannot shoot.
I carry gore-tex rainwear. I have fleece for an inner layer. I do not like the noise Levis make on brush and themselves - I prefer something softer and quieter. I have been the one who killed the elk because I outlasted the blizzard when others were warming up in camp.

Optics - A scope only needs to be reliable for most elk hunting. You can gain a couple minutes on the side of each day with high end stuff, but it is usually not worth the cost. I like Leupolds myself.
Good binoculars are imperative to me. I use spot and stalk much of the time and may glass for hours. Sorry, but a pair of Bushell would never cut it for me - headaches. You have to be able to see them to kill them.

I don't use every new gadget, but I have tried a few. I use the best tool for the job. While I always hunt on foot I may get there in a truck, horse or very rarely the dreaded ATV.
Keep an open mind, but keep it practical too.