I'm not trying to stir-the-pot in any way with this but I would like some logic applied to some theories.

With quite a few people that I know, most have a 7mm Rem Mag or a .270 win from 20+ years ago when it seems people were following outdoor-writing-fads almost like religious commandments.

Knowing the information we know today with cartridges, bullets, and hunting situations. I really would like to know some opinions on a few theories I've heard numerous times regarding this category of caliber in "flat shooting" cartridges.

1)Is there a significant recoil reduction choosing the .270/7mm in magnum-lines of catridges over their .30 and .338 cousins?

2)Is there signifcantly more amount of wind-drift using .270/7mm bullets over the bigger choices in long range shooting?

3) Given that a shooter is an average shot with any rifle in this case. Does a .270/7mm type of cartridge gain the same recognition as an all-round affective hunting/killing cartridge that can handle most situations when things go right and wrong?

1) Yes
2) No
3) Yes

Maybe, I was shooting for the moon on this one and hoping I was going to get a little bit better response.

They kick less because the bullets are smaller but drift about the same.

It depends how big the animal is. For most hunting they are just fine and easier to shoot.

Hagel used a 7mm but he had it loaded up to 300 mag performance. He is pretty much the expert on the bigger Western game.

People don't like recoil. You would never know it by reading this forum however.

Magnum:

I shoot a lot with the calibers you mention except the .270. What matters more than anything is time spent shooting in the field, practicing. The .338 Win, BTW, drifts more than the others you mention, but not by a huge margin.

I've shot a couple hundred game animals with the 7 MM Rem. It definitely recoils less than the 300's or 338's, depending on the stock, etc. The worst recoiling rifle I've ever shot was a 300 Wby. When I think I need something larger than the 7, I usually go for my 35Whelen or 375 H&H.

1. Most people leave the 270 and similar cartridges for something more powerful, usually after they hit an animal badly and lose it. The real problem is lack of practice, which most people find more productive and enjoyable with something like a 270. So the difference is recoil is important, but only if you practice. Also, for the recoil of a more powerful rifle, you can get a 270 that's light enough to carry all day, and a light rifle helps you hunt harder and longer.

2. There is not enough difference in wind drift to matter at responsible ranges.

3. The 270 and similar cartridges are great all-round choices, though you'll want more gun if you don't use them well. But that's also true of the 300 and 338. Just about anything between the 6.5 Swede and the 375 H&H will do for all-round use if you find the one that's right for you and use it wisely.


Okie John

Back when these discussions really raged eveyone except a few "nut cases" shot factory ammo and back then factory ammo all had about the same type of bullet. They were good bullets but not good enough to stretch the envelope of a particular standard round like the 270 vs. a 338 Mag. If you want to make a 270 do things it wouldn't do 40 years ago then today's premium bullets will let you, assuming you do your part. That makes caliber choice between the 270/7mm'30/338 a lot less critical unless you are a dedicated world-traveling big game hunter after things way to bad for a light rifle calibe. On the other hand, if you hunt like 99% of us, those same factory bullets are all you'll ever need.

1. Not if you practice with gun that has 6000+ ft/lbs at the muzzle . It makes the 338s way easier to shoot well.

2. How much one caliber in common bullet weight drifts VS. another is relatively meaningless compared to how well you know the drift of the actual round you are about to touch off.

3. Too broad of a question. It implies that some calibers might compensate for a hunting error which is not normally the case. Having said that, I can certainly think of one or two situations where a bigger gun might have made a different outcome. Then again, I could just be rationaling.

1. Recoil is really going to come back to math. The smaller caliber rifles with lighter bullets will recoil less. I don't understand putting the .270 with the 7mm RM as equals. To me the difference between a 150gr .270 load and the 7mag with a 160-162gr load is a noteable one. The 175gr 7mmRM is so close to the 180gr 300WM performance that seperating them seems like a mighty thin line. The amount of recoil is pretty much going to depend on two things. How the rifle is built(ie: weight, stock)and how heavy and fast are you pushing the bullets.

I think most people recognize the sharper recoil of the magnums and some are scared of it. Ones mental state has a lot to do with percieved recoil. Muzzle blast from a short barrel is often part of percieved recoil when in fact it really doesn't do much.

2. Wind drift isn't much of a concern for most because they don't shoot far enough for it to matter.

3. I don't believe a certain caliber will "make up for shot placement" but I do think that the larger caliber will do more damage and be more leathal in the event of a misplaced shot. Not everyone can place every bullet exactly where they intend every time.( except for the AR members of course! ) When a big Mulie turns as the .270 barks and the bullet hits shoulders he isn't as well hit as he would have been by say a 300 WM if the bullets are of a similar sectional density.(of course if the range is short the outcome will probably be the same) There are times when bigger is better. I think my .338 is one of the best choices for elk hunting. That doesn't meen I've never been hunting elk with anything else.

The bottom line is always that you should hunt with the rifle that you can confidently shoot well. And be sure it is enough gun with a good enough bullet.

Good bullets make a huge difference in terminal performance when the smaller calibers and weights are used. Nate

1. The main reason the .270 is so popular, good perf. w/ low recoil. The 7mag/160-175gr is in the 06, to a light .30mag loads as far as recoil goes. You can build a very light, 6.5-7#, 7mm anything (maybe not a STW/RUM) & recoil will not punish you.
2. Wind drift isn't just about bigger/heavier bullets. Look @ the figures for the long, high BC 6.5s. They'll run all day w/ .30mag 180 w/ a lot less recoil.
3. depends on what you call allround rifle. I think the .270 is a bit light for big elk, never hunted big bears, but would want something bigger there too. The 7mm/175gr & up would be my idea of all round game getters. The .30mags are probably just right, but I don't own one. 7mms for lighter game & .338 for bigger.

As I have aged a bit, recoil plays a lot bigger part than it did back when I thought that I could not be hurt. This is not the case when it comes to a few shots in the field. However there is no way that I am going to go to the range and shoot any Magnum rifle and call it fun. I have hunted big game with everything from the 223 to the 416 Rem Mag. From all that hunting I have learned that I am better off with a rifle that I can shoot very well with than one with more opwer than it takes to get the jom done well.

Wind drift has never been a concern to me because I refuse to shoot at ranges that are iffy because of wind or anything else. With most common calibers, wind drift is not critical at resonsable ranges.

After many many years of expierence and knowing what I know now, give me a good 280 and I will be well gunned for NA. Second choice, 6.5x55.

I used to own a 270 Sako Finbear until some bas**rd stole it. I then went to 30-06, sold it and bought a 7rem Mag, sold it and bought a 300 Win Mag. I now hunt with the 300, but I only use 150gr bullets due to the extra recoil. People complain about recoil my 300 will kick the crap out of you if not held properly, but it came with a Factory Limb Saver recoil pad that reduces "Felt recoil" to a comfortable amount. If you get your face to close to the scope it will cut you very badly. I like the 270, 7Mag, and the 300 Win Mag, but I believe to be a successful hunter practice, practice, practice, is the most important part of hunting.

Use what ever you like but stick with the same type of rifle and get use to how it feels and works.

When I was younger and much less experienced, I read a lot of O'Conner, Sundra and their ilk. They all said the .277/284 caliber bullets were the bee's knees and alluded that I needed one to take care of 90% of my shooting. I have always owned a 270 and several 7mms like the 7mm Weatherby and Remingtion Magnums and shot some game with them. My favorite caliber is the 338 Winchester and I have shot quite a bit of game with it as well. I also shoot the 300 Win. Mag and the Weatherby and have more experience with the Weatherby. Apparently I do not shoot the smaller calibers as well as the bigger ones,as everyone says is the way it should work, because I can tell a vast difference in the two. The 7mms and 270 are not the equal of the 30s that I CAN TELL (thats my disclaimer folks so give me a break). I shot the 300Wby Mag in Zimbabwe and was impressed also. The 338 on moose, elk, caribou and bears is impressive. I guess what I am saying is there is a distinction as you move up from 270/7mm to 30 cal., shot placement always the necessity. The 300Wby. does kick, seemingly more than the 338 Win. but it sure works on game.
Doug

If by big game ,we are talking (american game) deer, blackbear, caribou,sheep,goat,then a 270 or if you prefer a 7mm mag is just fine. I consider the above mentioned game as medium game. Large elk, moose,and big grizzly/brown bear are not ideally hunted with a 270 or 7 mm mag. Considering really big game,I would not use them as my all around rifle. I think 30 caliber(.308 Win. on up) makes a better all around rifle. Start with 30 caliber,shoot high BC premium bullets, and you have a better all around package.If you can stand a bit of recoil, you are best off with a 300 win. on up.If you tend to hunt actual big game, I would start with a .338 Win .Mag. on up if you can handle recoil.