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Of course, it's easy to see why those in places such as OK and TX would be jealous, too.

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You do some mighty fancy tap dancing pilgrim, but I ain't buying your sales pitch. Jealous of what? I see a future job for you: Press Agent Outdoor Writer for President Clinton in 2008. When you lose the argument demonize the state of your adversary. But I guess it depends on what your definition of "is" is.



Here is some information for you Tony:http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxingspending.html



Let's see for every dollar Texans pay in taxes they recieve 92 cents. For every dollar Arizonans pay in taxes they recieve $1.21. So since we subsidize you I'm ready to hunt.

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Sounds like the gun-grabbers, "let's compromise," where they have nothing to give.

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Of course, it's easy to see why those in places such as OK and TX would be jealous, too. Something about that grass being greener, eh?

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That's funny......you are the guys crying about no hunting opportunities in your own state........while every resident in the state of Oklahoma can buy 6 or more deer tags across the counter.....plus bonus deer, elk and antelope in special hunt drawings. Yep, the grass sounds greener alright!

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Why, because they know an onslaught of NRs will ruin the hunting experience here just as has happened in some parts of Colorado.

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Another non sequitur.

First off, unlike TX, NV and UT, 85% of the land in AZ is PUBLIC -- i.e. either BLM, USFS or AZ State Trust Land.
-TONY

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Let's see for every dollar Texans pay in taxes they recieve 92 cents. For every dollar Arizonans pay in taxes they recieve $1.21.

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I did re-read your post and it said "Public", not Federal, as I stated. Big difference, Huh?

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On your comments about the private land for Az. folks - Comical, almost (to me).

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What we have to give, and have been giving for a LONG time is our tax dollars

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while every resident in the state of Oklahoma can buy 6 or more deer tags across the counter.....plus bonus deer, elk and antelope in special hunt drawings.

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There ya go. With such great hunting there, you guys have no need to go elsewhere. Now how's about convincing those guys in CA and TX of the super hunting they also enjoy.

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"...maybe you can explain how an "onslaught" of NRs will ruin the hunting experience?"

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There's probably not enough room in the message box. Having guided for three years in southwest Colorado near Durango, I could expound on a bunch of specific instances just from there alone.



The last time my oldest son and I were able to draw a deer permit here in AZ, the unit was innundated with NRs (won't mention the prevalent state) who thought the only way to hunt Coues deer was off the back of a four-wheeler.



It's pretty frustrating to climb on foot for several hours to glass some undisturbed area where one KNOWS the deer hang out, then see a four-wheeler wending its way through the prime habitat, spooking deer as it goes. These same guys were camped 100 yards up the road from us, along with six others and three more four-wheelers. They stopped by our camp a couple times to visit. It was obvious from the conversations that they didn't have a clue as to what they were doing or that they were messing up the hunting for others.



Are NRs the only slob hunters? No. But from MY PERSONAL experience, the largest percentage are. For others, the mileage will vary. -TONY

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I also pay taxes on Equipment,bullets,arrows,etc through Pittman-Robinson taxes which goes to these states wildlife agencies.

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Those taxes, as are those from Dingell/Johnson, are allocated by the size of the state and number of licensed hunters (fishermen for D/J fund) in each state. They are not equally divided among the states. Also, a major portion is used for hunter education and shooting range development.



Now, would you like to take a guess at the states that get the biggest chunks of change? I can guarantee you that AZ is WAY down on the list.



Also, much of the PR funds spent here in AZ go to NON-game habitat projects, such as restorting wetland habitat along the Colorado River or developing wildlife viewing areas. -TONY

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who lives there they should do it just like ND does with their NonRes bow tags they allow so many tags you buy them in march over the counter and when they are gone they are gone.

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Brent,

I was citing the land available to hunting under the state's auspices. Thus, that elimnates the reservation lands. The tribes, with their own game departments and regulations, have complete control of those lands. -TONY

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A little geography lesson. I don't ski but there are mountains in Texas where you could. Tallest peak is 8,749. And I hate to be the one to break the news to you but there are wild elk in Texas that can be hunted in the western part of the state.

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A tall mountain does not translate to skiing. Skiing takes more than a dusting of snow. That's exactly why the Texas folks go elsewhere such as Durango, Taos and other such nearby places. When I owned a resort outside Durango in the mid 1970s, there were more cars with Texas plates than there were with Colorado plates in both the summer and prime ski months.

Has anyone mentioned the "wild elk," to the Texas Parks & Wildlife Department? Seems the folks there don't have a clue because elk aren't mentioned anywhere in the department regs. Of course, I guess I might have missed it, but me thinks "wild elk," as in free-range hunting of elk, is nonexistent in Texas. I'm open to being proven wrong, however.

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You can buy a $40 dollar permit and hunt a million or so acres.

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Not too much different than here, of course. The difference is WHAT you can hunt for $40 as a NR -- just as it is here. Last I looked, though, it costs somewhat more for a NR to hunt native big-game species, such as deer. And that's just for the license.

But see, unlike in your case, NRs don't own ranches in Texas; that's why they are NRs. So in order to hunt decent areas, they have to pay big bucks to kill deer. I can do that here for a lot less money if many of the allocated permits weren't going to NRs. So as it was again this year, I didn't get drawn for a deer permit here for any of my five choices. And since I can't afford the exhorbitant fees the folks in Texas charge for the privilege, I won't be hunting there either.

Just to clarify, however, I have hunted in Texas several times over the past 35 years. Only once has been lately, though, when I received an invitation to hunt a ranch at no charge other than my license. Even then, I was fully prepared to turn down the invite if the hunting was the same sort I was forced to do on the earlier ones.

I get absolutely no kick or satisfaction from sitting in a blind and ambushing a deer that comes into munch on corn or a food plot planted for the express purpose of luring said deer within range of that blind. Sames goes for turkey, bear or any other big-game animal. If others enjoy it, it's their choice to make. That said, I would likely hunt deer or whatever there again if I didn't have to mortgage my house, and if I could hunt in the style I prefer to do so. -TONY

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When I owned a resort outside Durango in the mid 1970s, there were more cars with Texas plates than there were with Colorado plates in both the summer and prime ski months

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So when it was money being put in your pockets you didn't care about a non-resident quota? Shouldn't you have limited your non-resident access too only ten percent? As long as your pockets were getting filled you didn't care if Colorado folks had a place to ski!

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Just to clarify, however, I have hunted in Texas several times over the past 35 years. Only once has been lately, though, when I received an invitation to hunt a ranch at no charge other than my license. Even then, I was fully prepared to turn down the invite if the hunting was the same sort I was forced to do on the earlier ones.

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You were forced? What the hell did they do-hold you in a deer stand at gunpoint?

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That said, I would likely hunt deer or whatever there again if I didn't have to mortgage my house, and if I could hunt in the style I prefer to do so.

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Has anyone mentioned the "wild elk," to the Texas Parks & Wildlife Department? Seems the folks there don't have a clue because elk aren't mentioned anywhere in the department regs. Of course, I guess I might have missed it, but me thinks "wild elk," as in free-range hunting of elk, is nonexistent in Texas. I'm open to being proven wrong, however.

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But see, unlike in your case, NRs don't own ranches in Texas

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Here's my $.02 I have been trying to draw a Elk tag in Oklahoma since 1988 and as of this july I still haven't some Non-Res have hunted here so why shouldn't I have as fair a chance in their state as they do here. I also pay taxes on Equipment,bullets,arrows,etc through Pittman-Robinson taxes which goes to these states wildlife agencies. I pay a lot more for my tags in their states which goes to fund the wildlife programs. So I should have a fair chance at their draw.JMHO take it or leave it.

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And don't forget, Rob, there is no cap on the number of permits issued to non-residents in the Oklahoma drawings......in fact, resident status is not even a factor in drawing a permit in Oklahoma. Residents and non-residents have exactly the same opportunities to draw a controlled hunt permit in Oklahoma!

I'd bet that most non-residents don't have a problem with caps or even an all out ban on non-resident hunting on private or state land.......it is the federal land situation that angers us!

It's like buying a share in a new truck.......we are told that we get to pay our portion of the monthly payment, insurance and maintenance......that money allows us to sit in the truck, listen to the radio, honk the horn and turn on the lights.......but we can't ride in it!

NO THANKS! If I'm paying, I'm riding!

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You were forced? What the hell did they do-hold you in a deer stand at gunpoint?

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Let's see, you went to British Columbia for bear and did a hunt in New Zealand. Did you mortgage your house for these hunts?

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That's because there is no season on them.

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but there are wild elk in Texas that can be hunted in the western part of the state.

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Writer, you're wasting your breath. These guys from TX and other eastern states don't understand the situation at all, though they'll jump up and down and say that they do and that we're ignorant to say that they don't.

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Been reading with some interest, but this just irked me too much. Guys like this like to paint with broad strokes when you get riled up. No problem, everyone gets riled, but cut the stereotypes please. They may fit ya'lls limited experience, but as a lifetime Texas resident, they just don't hold water! Besides, since when did Texas become an EASTERN state? That is just WRONG!

And yes, we do understand being cut out from 'public' land. At last count, from the Texas General Land Office there was 20.4 million acres of land under its jurisdiction, most of which is unavailable for hunting unless drawn for management hunts or such.

But...I can find numerous places that specialize in handgun or bow hunting...If you don't like hunting from blinds, get your a$$ down and walk. How is a box blind different from that 'sporting' practice of a tree stand so common in forest lands?

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If you don't like hunting from blinds, get your a$$ down and walk. How is a box blind different from that 'sporting' practice of a tree stand so common in forest lands?

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Why pay to manage game we don't have access to?

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Why should our tax dollars be used for federal land that we can't hunt on? If we don't have the same opportunity to hunt on federal property as residents do....

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1. There are free-ranging, wild elk in west TX.
2. They can legally be hunted by anyone since there is no season or special license required.

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Why should our tax dollars be used for federal land that we can't hunt on? If we don't have the same opportunity to hunt on federal property as residents do....

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Nothing above is true. It's a strawman to knock down.

Once again, anyone can hunt on federal land in AZ 365 days a year and kill all sorts of game for the price of annual NR license. In the case of big game species NR have the same odds as residents to draw permits, regardless of the land. Heck, they can even hunt on AZ STATE Trust land -- something they DON'T allegedly "pay for" -- if successful.

The ONLY difference was the NUMBER of permits allocated to NRs. -TONY

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