** REPLY TO OLARMY --- Shouldn't date myself like this , -- but way back in the 60's , Nosler made a rare and seldom seen .264 , 140 Gr. Boat-tail Partitioned .

My choice of this bullet , was to encompass as large a range of big-game as possible , in one flat-shooting rifle ; -- so I wanted a partitioned bullet .

My goal was to outshoot O'connor's classic .270 Win. across the board . -- The .264 Win. will do that ; -- ( which is not to , in any way , trivialize the .270 Win. -- One of the finest cartridge designs on earth ) .

When you outshoot the Classic .270 , you do so at a steep price . -- It's already a hot-rod .

Without doubt , ANY 140 Gr. .264 boat-tail would be O.K. for Antelope , and the old Sierra Game-King would be good Goat medicine of type .

Swift Scirocco may be coming out with an excellent Boat-tailed .264 , -- read something about one , but don't remember about bullet Wt. ? --- However , Sciroccos have thick tough tapered jackets , -- and if you anticipate taking Goats at extreme ranges , -- a thinner jacket like the Sierra , might be more desirable .

If you find a 140 Grainer BT / Partitioned in current manufacture , let me know , -- I only have a few of the ancient Noslers left .

------------ MMCOUGAR .

I think a plain jane 260 with a 100 grain load would be fine... I load them to 3350 fps in a 22 inch barrel and 3450 fps in a 26 inch barrel on a Model 700 VLS....

I'd also look strongly at a 6mm Remington, with a one in 8 twist... 105 grain SPs in a long actioned 6mm Rem can hit 3250 fps or better in a 24 inch barrel.. ( long seated bullets...) or 115 grain Berger Match bullet... not sure how that would do on game, being a match bullet.. but 46 grains of RL 19 gives me 3250 fps in a 24 inch barrel Remington 700....

I have two I rifles I did have put together for antelope in mind..

Model 70 Featherweight in 6.5 x 55, with a 27 inch barrel, Factory Laminate stock ( 1980s production), 1 in 7 twist...100, 120 and 140grain bullets can all be made to be pretty flat shooting.. long actioned rifle...This one is for easy carrying for open country...

The second one I did was a Regular Model 70, claw feed, 28 inch heavy magnum barrel, one in 8 twist, Long action....It is supposed to be a 6.5 x 57 Mauser... but I think it reality the smith chambered it in a 6.5 x 257 Roberts.... either way, once again, with a 100, 120 or 129, or 140 grain bullet it is very flat shooting... and very accurate...it has taken a couple of blacktails at 300 plus yards...Hasn't been antelope hunting tho.. maybe some day I'll have the time and the money at the same time...Time is usually the problem like always....

cheers
seafire

While I lived in Wyoming, the goat capital of the world, I think? Most every cal. around was used from 338's to .243's, at that time I don't think 22 cal. were allowed, Most People I knew took them with small, light, quick, bullets, that didn't do to much damage, the animals aren't that big. and most anything will kill them. As weather is usually warm try for good shoot placement and a quick kill, the animals are curious and will come to you if you hide from them and whistle to them. Worked for me several times. Clean it and cool it down quick (wash it down to cool down) and get all and I mean all hair off asap, even one will ruin the meat, despite rumors to the contrary it's good meat if taken care of.
Personaly I've used a 22-250AI, 243AI, 270win., I like the 270 with the old standby 130 btsp loaded to 3100fps.
Have fun on your hunt.

Far far too much emphasis is put on the cartridge and it's ability to create impressive data on paper.

Far too little concern is expressed for the rifle and it's handling and carrying charactistics.

The best cartridge I've hunted speed goats with is a .264 Win Mag.....That rifle is gone now and the rifle I use today for those elusive Wyoming critters is a M-70 featherweight in .257 Roberts. It still throws a 100 grain bullet at over 3,100'/sec and I can't really say that there's a loss in range using this cartridge but the featherweight rifle is far easier to carry than the 26" barreled and considerably heavier .264 mag.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
Far far too much emphasis is put on the cartridge and it's ability to create impressive data on paper.

Far too little concern is expressed for the rifle and it's handling and carrying charactistics.

.

I would take the 8x68S with 6-24x56 ZEISS VM loaded with 170gr KJG or 180 gr TSX bullets.

I could have sworn I had made a post here, I guess I didn't! I think antelope are, compared to other big game anmals, very easy to kill. Hard to hunt, what with hawk vision and leopard speed, but it sure doesn't take much gun to bring one down.

I'd start off in the 6mm range, the .243 being so-so, the 6mm Rem. would be a choice pick. The .257 Bob and .25-06 are likewise ideal. The .257 Weatherby is the equivalent of a pronghorn lasergun. The 6.5x55mm in a modern gun loaded to modern pressures is an excellent choice, as is the .260 Rem. The .264 Win Mag is an awesome long range thin skinned big game round. The .270 is about perfect for a multipurpose rig, both for antelope and whitetail and mule deer. The new .270 WSM is also a great long range cart, a little more velocity, lots of energy, and enough weight to buck the wind. The 7mm-08 and .280 Rem, like the .260 Rem and .270 Win, are also top performers with slightly larger bullets and are likewise effective as a multirole cartridge. The 7Mags can also pull the same duty, but burn a little more powder and kick a little harder.

My choice rifle in this instance would be the .270WSM in a single stack magazine rifle (like a Tikka T3). A good 2.5-10x scope should give you all the reach you need and should be fully MOA capable with a little load tuning. It would serve well as a multirole gun, for deer and caribou and sheep and whatnot as well as antelope. In a pinch, it could handle moose and elk as well. I think I've almost convinced myself here...

Everybody knows the ultimate antelope rifle isn't even a rifle-- it's a handgun, and here it is--

[url="http://www.hunt101.com/?p=315777&c=500&z=1"] [/url]

243 WSSM Striker/Leupold 4.5-14X PR/Varmint Hunter reticle/target elevation turret. 100 gr. Speer @ 2875 mv-- reticle zeroed with a corrected BC of .35.

I've only killed 10 pronghorn, hunting country that varies from sage flats in Montana to rolling hills in Colorado to intermountain valleys in Wyoming to mixed sagebrush and Cedar in California.

My choices would be as follows:

If I was starting with a factory rifle and ammo - Ruger No. 1B in .25-06 with a 30 mm Kahles 3-12x56 scope, with a Kepplinger trigger and a Hicks accurizer installed. Whichever 100-grain bullet that the rifle shoots best.

Custom rifle and wildcat - Hagen singleshot in 6.5-06 with a 30 mm Kahles 3-12x56 scope. Whichever 120 to 130-grain bullet that the rifle shoots best.

sscoyote
That is not a handgun... It is a rifle with a broken stock.

I have killed several antelope, and seen several killed by others with calibers from the 30 Herrett to the 300 Weatherby Mag.
The 243 with 100 grain Sierras or the 95 gr. Nosler Partition works as good as anything.

sscoyote-how ya been? I've been looking at the Striker thinking one would fit in my pack for winter coyote hunts on skis. What do you think of yours? Don't want to hijack this thread, so PM me if you wish.

All I have to do is think speedgoat and my 257 AI jumps up and down and says ME, ME!

Concho: Yes of course they are exactly the same cartridges dimensionally - but I bought Rifles with the different name (caliber) designations on their barrels and used them both to kill Antelope with!
The name of the 7mm Remington Express was changed to 280 Remington some years after it was first introduced - because some folks were buying 7mm Remington Express ammo mistakenly for their 7mm Remington Magnums!
I still have both headstamped cartridges - 7mm Express and of course the current manufacture 280 Remington stuff.
You would think the lack of a belt on the case of the 7mm Remington Express would have been enough to differentiate it from the 7mm Remington Magnum but I guess not!
My Rifle in 7mm Remington Express by the way was a very accurate Ruger Model 77 V (Liberty Model - made in 1976 as I recall)!
I should have kept that one - ALSO!
Long live the 280 Remington (7mm Remington Express)!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Federal Premium .300 Win Mag loaded with 190 grain Sierra Matchkings.

They stay on course through the wind more efficiently than lighter bullets do at longer ranges.

I'm surprised that the 7mm Remington magnum doesn't have a larger following. That .284 bullet comes in just about every shape and size if you reload, and the factory ammunition screams to begin with. I know that it is a little heavy for just antelope, but then you would also have a great rifle for all other north american game.

7x57 is all you need.

Ditto on the 7x57. Anyone want to post a pic for me?

I will. While your at it, send me a picture of your Millville rifle. Wont post that one.

Chuck

I got a savage in .270wsm and it shoots sub MOA at 100 yrds. It should be a good rifle for your hunt.

Ralphie's Pronghorn


Chuck

thanks to Chuck for posting a pic for me of my ideal pronghorn rifle. Not the regular type you usually see. It's a reworked FN in 7x57 with a 4x Redfield. I use 160 NPs for everything in it.

Heres what I use for Antelope, as well as Whitetails here in Alberta. Its a Mark Bansner "ultimate" in .280 Rem. 140 Interbonds, very accurate, and deadly!

Used to hunt antelope here in MT and run down to Wyoming as well each year. Used everything from .270's/ .280 Rem and 06's to .300 mags on them. They are NOT tough to kill, just tough to hit. Best rig I used was a Browning M78 SS in .25-06 with 100 gr sierras. VERY accurate.

Nothing is the ULTIMATE. There is always a compromise.

A fast .25 caliber from the .257 AI, or .25-06 to .257 Wby would be IMHO one of the better tools for the job. 6.5mm would be fine too.

Longest antelope 1 shot kill I ever saw was a 6.5x.284 Win in a benchrest gun at 880 yds. Shooter was a several time IBRSA record holder.

CMFIC1.......Beautiful rifle. The Bansers sure are pretty in an understated "working tool" sort of way. And .280 Rem one of my favorites.

FN in MT

The ultimate antelope cartridge would probably be the 257stw as it shoots flatter than even the 257wby.

My own choice is the 7mmstw using 140gr bullets.Slightly flatter shooting than the 257wby and the bullets aren't affected as much by wind.

cmfic1, you have a private message.

Chuck

You'll find it hard to better a 24"+ barrel 270 winchester!

lot of choices, but I'd probably do a 25 of something. Wby would be nice on a mdl 70, 25/06 if I was going to do a mauser.

pre 64 264 would be cool too, to many to choose from, 27 cal short mag would work to.

Mine is a heavy magnum barrel, 28 inches long, on a Model 70 action, chambered in 6.5 x 57.....

As flat shooting as a 25/06 or a 257 Weatherby or 270 WSM any day.....

I'm not a fan of exotic or wildcat cartridges for hunting (benchrest & tinkering at the range is fine) but if I'm hunting I want a cartridge I can buy in a convienence store in BFE anywhere.
I think the two best cartridges for antelope would be either the 25.06 with a 117grn or a 270 with a 130grn.
It's pretty hard to argue with cartridges that are nothing more than a necked down 30.06.
I would guess that more antelope have been killed with a 270 than any other cartridge.
But since I don't have either of those cartridges I guess I'd just have to take my 30.06

quote:

Originally posted by RaySendero:
You'll find it hard to better a 24"+ barrel 270 winchester!

how 'bout my above rifle? It has a 24 1/2" bbl, and its in a .280 Rem. I can easily "out load" my .270 Win. with this rifle!

CMFIC i dont know how your 280 will easily-OUTLOAD a 270 given the same bbl-they do have the same case-I wish you could explain so some of us that arent gifted with so much wisdom could understand.

quote:

Originally posted by cmfic1:

quote:

Originally posted by RaySendero:
You'll find it hard to better a 24"+ barrel 270 winchester!

how 'bout my above rifle? It has a 24 1/2" bbl, and its in a .280 Rem. I can easily "out load" my .270 Win. with this rifle!

Not any better!

Hey guys, sorry about the above post. That was my jackass buddy who was here the other nite. Too many beers + comp thats logged in = him pissin around trying to make me look dumb...I dont even have a .270!!

Wow, I see alot of good choices here!!! I especially like the fast .25's & 6.5's for this function but the 270 & others mentioned are great if the gun is first of all accurate with the proper optics, load etc. At this stage of my life the rifle weight is not relevant, so I
choose a 25-06 Sendero. Last summer I had a very
good gunsmith re-chamber this fine weapon to a
25-06AI. He also trued-up the receiver, skim bed
the bedding block, re-crown it & other accuracy enhancements. Before this, it woulds shoot the TSX into 1/2" & only that bullet, but now it will shoot 1/4-3/8" with a few bullets it likes.
I choose the 125 Wildcat ULD because the BC through tests seemed to be comparable with the .308cal. 200MK, therefore, wind drift was minimized. We loaded these to 3,250FPS & harvested 6 Antelope & 3 Mule Deer with this load! We were very pleased with the results!

Cmfic1: If EVERYTHING is going wrong then you, AND, bob hagel should not pull the trigger!
You should not even consider pulling the trigger if even ONE thing is wrong!
Sheesh!
Patience and intelligence must come into play before even putting ones finger IN the trigger guard while Big Game Hunting!
If "EVERYTHING is going (or has gone!) wrong" don't even put your finger in the trigger guard but stand there my man and analyze just what and why things went badly. Don't compound an already bad situation and make it worse!
To touch off a "hope shot" when "EVERYTHING is wrong" like hagel, and apparently, you consider OKAY is simply - just ridiculously bad judgement.
And ridiculously bad judgement has NO place in ethical Big Game Hunting!
Maybe you should consider another motto?
Theres always another day and another chance for a SURE shot!
There is no reason to be anything less than patient while Antelope Hunting!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

quote:

Originally posted by IdahoVandal:
I am not sure if I am qualified to discuss the ultimate antelope rifle ( I have yet to ever hunt them....I have 4 preference points however in Idaho so it should be soon)
IV

When did Idaho begin a preference point system?

I can find no reference to such in the synopsis or website.

I have only been hunting general season the last few years and was not aware of a point system on draw hunts.

I need to start putting in for some doe tags again, or maybe that late november buck hunt in 32, (Hunting bucks in that area at Thanksgiving definitely takes the challenge out of deer hunting). Second or third year should be a shoo in with points.


My choice for Antelope.....264 Win mag in a 70 classic 26 inch or custom 28 inch on a Ruger #1 would be even better. Load it with a 120 Nosler BT as close to 3300 fps as you can get in that particular rifle and still keep the gun under .75 moa.

Of course the 257 Roy is a duplicate of this round. The powder capacity is nearly identicle and .007 inches in bullet diameter is certainly not worth arguing about.

quote:

Originally posted by VarmintGuy:
Concho: Yes of course they are exactly the same cartridges dimensionally - but I bought Rifles with the different name (caliber) designations on their barrels and used them both to kill Antelope with!
The name of the 7mm Remington Express was changed to 280 Remington some years after it was first introduced - because some folks were buying 7mm Remington Express ammo mistakenly for their 7mm Remington Magnums!
I still have both headstamped cartridges - 7mm Express and of course the current manufacture 280 Remington stuff.
You would think the lack of a belt on the case of the 7mm Remington Express would have been enough to differentiate it from the 7mm Remington Magnum but I guess not!
My Rifle in 7mm Remington Express by the way was a very accurate Ruger Model 77 V (Liberty Model - made in 1976 as I recall)!
I should have kept that one - ALSO!
Long live the 280 Remington (7mm Remington Express)!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VarmintGuy,
Just a quick correction on the geneology of the 280 Rem. (In a good natured manner)

This cartridge was originally introduced as the 280, and the load pressure was held to a low standard in order to make the cartridge function well in the Rem 760.

Of course the cartridge was much maligned in the press (much like the 244 Rem) because of the low pressure loadings.

So a few years later Rem's marketing thought it would be a good idea to bump up the load pressure, rename the cartridge to 7mm express, and push the chambering in the 700. (That idea worked so well to save the 244-6mm, didn't it?)

The rest of the history is as you stated and the name was changed back to 280 Rem.

I'm putting the finishing touches on a heavy barreled 6.5x55.

The thought of one day killing a goat with it was never very far from my mind when I decided on the 6.5 Swedish as the caliber I wanted to build.

For me, my answer is 6.5x55...

I will cast another vote for the 264 Winchester Magnum. I have had excellent results with all of the Nosler Partition (100, 125, and 140 grain) bullets as well as 140 grain Sierra boattails. I have recently tended toward the lighter Nosler 100 grain Partition although any of the above loads are sufficiently flat shooting and accurate to meet my needs.

Varmint guy, I am not to sure where you get off claiming you may know "how" I hunt or take my shots at game. You dont know me, nor do you know where I have been or my experriences! and believe me I have many. I never have, nor will I ever suggest taking a risky "unethical" shot at game, I have turned down many shots due to the fact that the "perfect" shot wasnt presented. I have yet to wound/lose an animal due to a poor shot on my part.
I have tracked many poorly hit Black Bears,and other N. American game shot by clients, some of them unfortunately were not found, but most of these were on baited hunts, and the shot the client takes is beyond my cotrol, as I am not there.
I am not sure what Bob Hagel had in mind when he wrote this quote, but I do know what I had in mind when I quoted him, and that is to use as much gun as you can comfortably handle, no matter what you may be hunting (do you piss on all the highly touted writers who have said that??). The above quote is geared more towards "professionals" who may have to climb around in less than ideal terrain, chasing an angry and/or wounded animal, that some client has hit poorly.
So if you werent able to read between the lines before, I hope this may have cleared it up a bit fot you.(P.S. thanx for all your wicked advice, oh ya, and I am sure that since your a "varmint guy" every shot you have taken on them have been a 100% ethical kill shot... Right!)

My ultimate goat gun is my .264 M70 with 26" barrel. My gun shows a preference for max loads pushing 140 grain Barnes XLC's. Besides working great on pronghorn, its death on anything up to 700 pounds. I haven't used it on anything bigger. I usually move up to a .338 for that.

However, I would not feel handicapped in any way with an accurate .257 Weatherby or 25-06. I'd like to see how the new 110 grain Accubond would perform on pronghorn out of these 2 rounds.