My son used a .243 in Africa and took kudu, springbok, bushbok, numerous monkeys, blesbok all with one shot - properly placed in the heart/lung area. All but the kudu dropped at the shot. The kudu ran 50 yds and died.

I have taken deer with it - no problem.

The .243 is fine as is nearly every other cartridge on the planet except the 45-70 ( ) if the bullet is placed properly.

Shoot what you like, place the bullet in the best spot and have fun...

If you consider the 270win large enough to use on a 900lb elk or a 1200lb moose,the 243win,is certainly adequate for use on deer up to 300lbs or so.Personally,I prefer slightly larger cartridges in both cases.

Thebear_78: Well said and said succinctly! I have seen Deer and Antelope killed with everything from a 22 L.R. to a 338/378 Weatherby Magnums, 375 HH Magnums and a 458 Winchester Magnum!
And the "boilerroom" (heart/lung area) devastation done on these game animals seldom exceeds that done with the various 6mm's I have used and seen used!
You use a 243 to shoot a Deer or an Antelope in the heart/lungs area and you will have rather quickly killt that creature!
NO IF'S, AND'S, OR BUT'S ABOUT IT!
No other outcome is foreseeable!

Jarrod: I agree with your contention 100%! The 243 is plenty of cartridge and lethality for any Deer or Antelope alive today.

Fredj338: JUDAS PRIEST MAN! What a bucket of crap you have now posted! Are you seriously contending the only time I (and hundreds of thousands of other folks!) can use our 243's on Deer and Antleope is when we drag a cement benchrest out in the field with us???
Stupid on its face that!
That statement is so bizarre, so assinine, so in the face of reality that I simply won't take it seriously!
Why - you might ask?
Because its stupid - thats why!
I have NEVER taken a "benchrest" afield with me EVER - while I have used my 243's and various other 6mm Rifles when Hunting Deer and Antelope!
Never have, never will!
Never seen any other Hunter do so either!
Furthermore there fredj338 I have harvested cleanly and quickly probably 40+ head of Antelope and Deer PAST 200 yards with my various 6mm caliber Hunting Rifles!
Some beyond 400 yards yards there fredj338! So don't contend its not doable or even hard to do! I know better!
fredj338 if you are saying "perfect" shot placement is only possible with one caliber over another then you simply are a lost cause!
The heart/lung area is a relatively large lethal area on Deer and Antelope and the 243 and various 6mm cartridges are just as capable of hitting that as any other cartridge is!
It appears you are saying its only OKAY to use larger calibers than the 243 to shoot at longer ranges, when you are uncertain of hitting the lethal area, then that contention is also beserk!
A Hunter should ONLY fire his Rifle when that Hunter is quite sure of striking the lethal area of the intended target!
Period!
Using a bigger caliber to throw lead downrange in hopes that the larger caliber will SOMEHOW make up for poor marksmanship and poor decison making, is a contention so self evidently stupid and ill advised I will let it stand for others to laugh at along with me!
We ALL need a good laugh now and then.
Your ridiculous contention that only using the 243 when there is snow on the ground is just that - absolutely ridiculous, ill informed, not based on reality and imbecilic!
fredj338, I surmise from your "bizarro" posting that you have never used a 243 Winchester Rifle on Deer and Antelope?
Or, you have used it in a VERY poor manner!
Isn't it the goal of every true Hunter, true sportsman, ethical outdoorsman to place their shot as near "perfectly" as possible! Regardless of caliber choice!
Again, I can't let this bitterly ignorant part of your posting slide - please clarify for us - do you condone shooting at Deer and Antelope when you are not sure of the shot being lethal AND you hope that by your use of larger calibers you can somehow MAKE UP for poor decision making and poor marksmanship???
If that is your contention then thank God there are not many afield like you!
Long live the wonderful 243 Winchester!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Hunting Truths

1. When a adequate bullet takes the game we are satisfied.
2. When an inadeqate bullet wounds game and it runs off some might conclude that they missed.
3. Small bullets make small wounds and sometimes no blood trail.
4. Large bullets are used for dangerous game to stop it faster.
5. People who have failures with a certain cartridge stop posting on the net or don't mention the failures. They do post good things however because they think it makes them look good or special.
6. Arguments are almost always out of context for instance VG says that a 243 in a vital spot will take any deer. Of course it will. What if the wound from a 243 misses a vital spot and a larger wound hits the vital spot?

"Use Enough Gun"

Hunting Truths
1.A good shot with a .243 kills deer.
2.An average hunter is more likely to make a good shot with a .243 than a .300 Mag.
3.Large bullets for dangerous game have no bearing on a whitetail rifle.
4. If you shoot enough deer, some will run a ways, no matter what you use.
5. Hunt long enough and someday you'll lose one.
6.When you do lose one, there is no way in hell to know whether you really made a good shot or not,since the deer is lost.
7. I haven't shot one with a .243 for years, my main 'go to' rifle is a 7x57.

Savage99:

Early on in this thread I think I remarked that I had no experience with the 243 on whitetail deer. I have noticed that most of the posters seem to speak of shooting at deer in a front shot. Eastern woods deer hunters know that's a rare experience -and I was speaking of shooting at the south end of a whitetail going north when I expressed some doubtfulness about the 243's effectiveness under such conditions. (After all, the one time supreme deer killer in this country, the 30-30, is an even larger bullet - and I went to a 30-06,180 gr. by the time I was 20. I'm sure the 243 does fine in open country, at a standing deer, in the hands of a good shot. Us Eastern woods deer hunters never wanted to give the deer that much of a chance!

Savage
What do you mean-tell us more about yourself?

I made a mistake in my original post. I should have said ..."Seams we trade opinions on the .243 and its use as a deer cartridge every once in awhile. LETS SEE IF WE CAN DO SO AGAIN WITHOUT CALLING EACH OTHER STUPID FOOLS."

Suppose we put the question into a poll and said do you think:

1. the .243 W is the BEST cartridge for deer hunting.

2. the .243 is an ADEQUATE round for deer hunting.

3. the .243 is the WORST possible cartridge
for deer hunting.

We would probably all end up in the middle until someone added a coment defining ADEQUATE and the mud would start to fly.

Robin

I agree with No. 2 the 243 is a adequate deer round there are better and there are worse.

If the "south end of a Whitetail goind north" was the only shot I expected to get I'd be disgusted with myself! I sure would scrutinize my hunting methods and see what I was doing wrong. I don't take this kind of shot with any rifle. That said the 243 is just as likely to break the pelvis and bring down a deer as any other cartridge. I consider this a cruel way to get my venison and destructive of such in itself. Some of you eastern boys just don't get the sportamanlike conduct concept of "chance". This is directly pointed at those who think such shooting is all you have to hopew for.

243 is a great round on deer but a terrible round for discussion!!!

FB

Rickt300: Boy did you hit the nail on the head!
Bravo to you and your "lesson" to a few here that should NOT be overlooked!
Long live the splendid 243 Winchester!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Rickt300:

I am going to try to overlook your insulting language about "Eastern" hunters and how to change "hunting methods". I'll simply ask you a few questions. Have you (or that Montana poster) ever hunted in NY woods for whitetails? Are you aware that walking up deer in those woods often means that you may only get a very quick shot at a whitetail who will disappear in two jumps? I'm sure us Easterners would welcome suggestions on how to improve our "hunting methods". After all, we only have been shooting whitetails before anybody in that former Mexican territory now called Texas ever saw a whitetail. You people shoot deer over baited stands. You shoot deer inside fenced areas and you shoot deer from built enclosures - and you want to lecture me about "sportsmanship" in hunting? Get lost, you miserable redneck.

Gerrys375

Sometimes people who have never hunted in the midwest or eastern US don't realize how different it is. My brother and I have for years traded hunts with some outfitters in
Wyoming. A couple of years ago, they brought with them a young guy who had been guiding for them a couple of years. About the second ditch we pushed, we had him standing at the head of a ditch where it split and faded into a beanfield. We pushed through some awful cover and ran out a big buck that would have easily been in the 160's gross it ran by him at not more than 90 yards in the open beanfield. He never fired a shot, so when I finally drug my dragging butt out of a ditch that was about 20 feet deep and clogged with multiflora rose bushes, I asked why the hell he didn't kill that buck. His answer was he was waiting for it to stop and give him a clear shot. A couple of days later we were driving into a pasture to drop off the standers to push another ditch, I pointed to a buck in the 140-150 range that was 100 yards or maybe 125 away. What does he jump out and sit down with, but his G-d--n binos? Of course the deer sauntered into a draw never to be seen again. It wasn't that the guy didn't know how to hunt or was inexperienced, it was just an alien form of hunting for him.

quote:

Originally posted by gerrys375:
Rickt300:

I am going to try to overlook your insulting language about "Eastern" hunters and how to change "hunting methods". I'll simply ask you a few questions. Have you (or that Montana poster) ever hunted in NY woods for whitetails? Are you aware that walking up deer in those woods often means that you may only get a very quick shot at a whitetail who will disappear in two jumps? I'm sure us Easterners would welcome suggestions on how to improve our "hunting methods". After all, we only have been shooting whitetails before anybody in that former Mexican territory now called Texas ever saw a whitetail. You people shoot deer over baited stands. You shoot deer inside fenced areas and you shoot deer from built enclosures - and you want to lecture me about "sportsmanship" in hunting? Get lost, you miserable redneck.

Good post Gerrys.

The shots can be really tough here. I use enough gun. If your a full grown man there is no excuse for using a small gun. Unless of course you don't understand the concept of the "Large Humane Wound"

quote:

Originally posted by gerrys375:
Rickt300:

I am going to try to overlook your insulting language about "Eastern" hunters and how to change "hunting methods". I'll simply ask you a few questions....- and you want to lecture me about "sportsmanship" in hunting? Get lost, you miserable redneck.

Gerry: no offense, but I don't think you succeeded in your efforts to "overlook"

Boy has this been beat to death! .243 Winchester; one of the worlds best cartridges! Not however one of the worlds best deer rounds.

Thank you Bwest!!

Well Put...

Actually being called a redneck bothers me none. If "walking up whitetails" was all I had as a hunting method and I was willing to consistantly shoot these fine animals in the butt then I might agree with you. East Texas is just as thick as any country in the northeast and by far more of the shrubbery has thorns. This aspect has nothing to do with the 243 and I would not use it under those conditions. But since I don't just walk them up I can use just about anything I want You just go right ahead and shoot them anywhere you want and call it sporting, count me out.

rickt300,

If you don't mind think about a very difficult hunting situation. For instance it may be the fact that there is very little game around or it's the last day etc. We get all kinds of shots. Sometimes the animal is close and hardly moving and you could pop it off with anything almost. Other times your last chance is very difficult.

For such woods hunting I carry a .358 Win loaded with a fast opening bullet. For longer range difficult hunting I carry something far more powerful than a 243.

To each his own.

Relying on my own experiences I feel that it will take deer but, I personally feel shot placement is very critical w/ the round. I've dropped em' in their tracks w/ the round and I've also went and got the beagle and went down miserable long sparse blood trails in the middle of thickets no man would care to be in. Several guys in the family used to use them but they have pretty much laid them down because there are much better suited cartridges out there. I think the recoil debate is sort of ridiculous. If someone can handle a 243, they can handle any of the 308 class rounds or the 270win as well. A good recoil pad such as the Limbsaver will help out tremendously on the youngsters.



Good Luck

Reloader

I just don't shoot at flags. If game is scarce I will hunt somewhere else. Last day, well I wasn't desperate to kill anything on the first day so that won't push me into doing things I wouldn't normally do. I take 3-5 deer a year,and usually 10 or so feral hogs. I hunt North Carolina, Texas and Oklahoma in widely varied terrain. If I can't put my bullet pretty much directly into a vital zone I don't shoot.

Rickt300: AMEN Brother!
Perfectly and positivley said!
Just last night I was watching the Outdoor Channel and a Savage99 type Hunter (only Magnums kill Game type!) was on his "Hunt of a lifetime"!
This guy was Hunting the huge horned Mongolian Sheep.
This "dude" had his MAGNUM all revved up for the Hunt!
Trouble was when he was presented with a standing BROADSIDE shot at a magnificent Ram he lay down prone and promptly proceeded to shoot that unfortunate Trophy game animal - through the GUTS! Not even close to the first ribs!
Not through the heart/lungs like I or any real sportsmen could have done easily with a 243 Winchester, thus killing that Ram with one shot!
NO!
He gut shoots the hapless animal and the Ram runs off with the herd of other Rams that had been feeding nearby!
Now the photographer made the mistake of showing how far the Ram initially ran (800+ yards!) and then decided to shut the camera off and only resume filming when the Ram was located (sometime later that day - as evidenced by the position of the sun) and it was now located in a completely different basin!!!
The filming of Mr. Magnum ("Mr. something bigger"!) AND the now "Magnum gut shot" Ram was resumed! The Magnum shooter was filmed walking across an open grassy basin directly at the Ram! He walked at the Ram for SOME time! With the Ram now lying down (but with its head held high) as Mr. "something far more powerful than a 243!" has to use his "Magnum" twice more (that was shown anyway) to kill that Ram!
I could have (and have done similarly many many times!) made a killing shot on that Ram from prone, at the range said nimrod was shooting at with ANY of my 243 Winchester's and a good Nosler Partition bullet!
Easily!
Lethally!
No sweat!
This Ram I am sure was 300 pounds on the hoof - again I am certain that I could have harvested that Ram with any of my 24 caliber size Hunting Rifles cleanly and done it within seconds!
Instead Mr. Magnum gut shot that creature causing it a great deal of suffering and filling that creatures blood circulation system with bitter adrenaline - effectively souring ALL of its edible flesh!
Proper bullet placement, proper bullet selection with ones 243 Winchester and these type situations would not have to happen!
I was sickened by that display of poor shooting, poor decision making and ineptitude!
Long live the wonderful and LETHAL 243 Winchester!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Nice rant VG, you must have too much time on your hands. You can continue to hunt w/ the .243, fine, doesn't hurt my feelings. If it works for you great, I just don't recommend or use it when I think there are better rounds for hunting antelope & deer. No need to go cabin happy on me. It is a discussion not a challenge to your manhood. You are just completely taking my statements out of context, also fine. I never said anything about caliber making up for shot placement, etc. your interpretation, not what I said. I don't hunt w/ a .243 because I have seen & had friends of mine, all capable game shots, relate poor personal exp. I don't have to try it for myself to find out, I'll trust what I see & what they have seen. BTW, jus because you made a 400yd shot w/ your .243 doesn't mean it's a 400yd round. Other, less exp. hunter/shooters will think it's true if enough people say they have done it.
Relax, have another beer & feel free to jump into any discussion you like, but your opinions may be just as bizzare to me & others, I just don't go after anyone for having them.

I guess we all have different experiences to relate with different cartridges. The 243 and 6MM Remington are a long way from being the only cartridges I use but they could serve me for most of my deer hunting and all my antelope hunting. After playing with a bunch of cartridges over the last ten years I am going to put the 6's back in front line service this fall. I'm going to use the 100 grain Sierra Gameking in the 6MM and the Remington 80 grain PSP in the 243. Here's to good hits and cold beer.

I love a 243 for deer! I have kept myself in great shape most every deer season by helping my buddies track their deer for miles and miles when shot with a 243! It seems that 8 out of 10 deer I have helped friends track were shot with that round. I can't tell you why that is so, but it is in my little world. A possible answer to that observation is this: with the 243, it seems every guy that shoots it for deer trys to find the lightest load they can shoot with. Godamighty, if you are gonna use a rifle better suited for groundhogs, then do the deer a favor and at least use the heaviest, toughest consructed bullet you can find.

my 2 cents...flame away if ya want.

This thread is still going huh.

Well, first I apologize in ADVANCE if I offend anyone, but surely most of the grown men hunters can handle more recoil than what a 243 delivers (as previously mentioned). This is barring any shoulder surgeries or other compromised body kinematics.

The only time I've seen a 243 knock something down was on the Outdoor Channel. Personal accounts were never that remarkable. I'm with Hank H. on the tracking issue. Those little bullets do kill deer but not like I prefer to see it done.

One of my neighbor's grandmother shoots a 7 mag for deer. She bought it new some 35 years ago. She's all of 130 pounds, 5'3". Though it is very subjective, I think if she can handle the recoil of that rifle, most fellas should be able to handle it as well.

Although, thinking about it, my brother is a bit of a pansy when it comes to recoil. His 300 SAUM is "a pretty hefty kick to me," as he puts it.

My goodness you guya are long winded. I don't care much for the mud slinging. I've used and killed a lot of game with a .243 and never had a complaint untill last year when I shot a huge bodied buck. After the shot I watched the deer run into a little ditch then across an open bean field. I would say 100-+150 yds. I was astonished, never had one run before and I begain to doubt my .243 after 30 yrs of use. I had shot it low through the heart and heart shot game usually runs, a little higher and it would have turned it's insides to mush like it usually does. Some bullets are just too tough for the .243 and zip right through. The .243 works just fine with the right bullet. But, if I'm seriously trophy hunting I use my o6. However if a .243 is in your hands, take the shot. I shot a huge wild boar in Arkansas once running through the brush at probably 40 yds, at the shot it just flipped end over end and died. I now use a .358 win for hogs,bear,moose elk ect. But a .243 really has never let me down and I will be packing one for antelope soon.

Varmint Guy, Please do not take my comments as being offensive as they are intended more in jest than anything else. However, your defense of the .243 reminds me of a guy whose sister has been accused of working in the local red light district.
One, I never said I the .243 was inadequate for deer. I think that in the hands of an excellent shot who has the patience to wait for the right shot cna and should use a .243 if he/she so wishes.
However, I must take a small amount of umbrage at your comments that a heart shot deer could run 200 yards, give ot take. First, the hunter was a newbie, using my rifle, my handload with a Sierra 100 gr. bullet over a stiff load of surplus 4831. I and my hunting partner were guiding him on the ranch for his first deer hunt, and he had been coached on shooting the rifle until we felt he could place a shot at any reasonable distance, with us deciding what was reasonable. After the shot, all thre of us paced off the distance from where trhe deer was standing when shot and it averaged out to a bit more tham 200 paces.
While running that far may not be common, it does happen, and saying otherwise is tantamount to calling me a liar. That's OK, because I was there, Two others were there and it happened.
Consider this. take two deer shot through the heart under exactly the same conditions. In one case, the heart is full of blood. The deer either drops on the spot or runs a fairly short distance. However, deer number two has just had the heart pump a load of blood through the body to the brain oxygenating the whole body. That deer is capable of covering quite a bit of distance before expiring.
Case in point. During the Miami shootout when a bunch of FBI agents and a couple of really bad guys shot it out, one of the bad guys was shot in the heart, yet managed to not only stay on his feet, but continued fighting for close to a minute before expiring. I'll grant the fact he was probably overdoes with adrenaline, but the point still is he did not go down quickly. Iy was determined dafterward the his heart must have just supplied the brain with oxygen and blood just before the bullet struck the heart.
I'm not saying the .243/6MMs aren't good for deer, it's just my personal opinion that there are better cartridges, especially for newbies.
I'd bet you a dollar to donuts, that if you had the chance to hunt the Northwest corner of california for Blacktail deer, you'd consider leaving your .243 at home. Shots come quick and fast in that rain forest, and if you don't drop your deer within 25 yards tops, you'll lose it. Period. Even when it isn't raining, th water dripping off the trees will wipe out any blood trail in minutes. The underbrush is so thick that if it runs very far, you will never find it. I used an 18" barreld Springfield 03 30-06 with was 30-30 bullet loaded to 2400/2500 FPS estimated way back then. Sure messed up a lot of meat, but I'd rather lose a few pounds of meat than the whole deer. When I left california for good, I hunted with either a 30-06 or .308 Win. and they have been my go to guns for most of my life. Why? Because they worked. The .243 was my coyote rifle.
I did ask my friend what load he used on the deer that took so long to find. He said it was either a Winchester or Remington factory load, but he forgot which.
Due to a shoulder injury a few years back, I now have to forego the pleasure of my 06 and .308. If I draw for antelope, deer or elk, I'll most likely use my 7x57 Mauser, at least for elk. Probably the .257 Bob for antelope and deer with decently constructed bullets. The .243? My wife has decided that it is her pet paper killer. She shoots but won't hunt. can't win 'em all.
You know? You really shouldn't get all worked up about the fact that some people don't like the .243. It's just their personal opinion. You know what they say about opinions. They're just like rear ends. Everybody has one. Take care.
Paul B.

I hunt with a bunch of different rifles. If I had to pick the poorest performing cartridge I have used on deer it would either be the 30-30 using the 170 grain corelokt or my 45-70 loaded with cast bullets. These two give great penetration but narrow wound channels if you don't hit bone. I have never hit a deer with either that didn't travel some distance. With the 243, 6MM and 6x284 more than half the deer shot have been found within 20 feet of where they were standing when hit. I guess this is a bit slanted because with the scope sighted 6MM's I often shoot for the neck just in front of the shoulder which gives near instant result. Even at that I selcom have any deer shot with anything travel more than 75 yards. I also feel that the more stiffly constructed bullets, especially in 6mm result in deer that go farther than bullets that expand quickly.

I have 2 243s and a 6mm rem - I like them. I shoot up whitetail sized deer with them (150-175lb or so)and find they work extremely well with 85-90gr bullets.

Blood trails are not so much calibre related as dependant on position. You can shoot the think with a 375 and if it's a high chest you will not get much blood. Shoot a deer low heart with a 243 and there will be enough blood to paint with.

I am recoil sensitive - I notice that I shoot my 243/6mms considerably better than my 7mm and up!

Well, let's digress a little more! (and I'll confess not to have read most of the thread...)

This business about deer or other big game being shot through the heart and going a fair distance--75, 150, 200 yards, whatever--should not surprise anyone. But, lest it does, let me offer a little anecdote:

In 1989 my dad shot a nice 8 pt. whitetail at Fort Robinson S.P. Nebraska. The 150 gr. WW PP from his 7 mag hit the bottom of the heart from about 15 yards. Blood everwhere, inside of chest "sounded like a worsching (sic) machine when I gutted it."

That deer ran about a hundred yards, up a steep, grassy hillside (20 degrees? Maybe steeper?).

Point is, anything can happen in hunting. So shoot well the first time, and be ready to shoot again, no matter what!

friar

Magnum61;
I guess if all we had in Washington (or anywhere) was grassy slopes and fields and a little brush to hunt 80lb deer in, where we could always pick a good shot, the 243 would be a good cartridge to use. That's not realistic in alot of places, and as a result I agree with your first post completely.
I too have used, and am disappointed with, the 243 as a deer cartridge---I quit using it years ago, even though I found it "user friendly" in the recoil department, like alot of these posters have alluded to. If I couldn't shoot well with a bigger cartridge because I had a bad shoulder or something, I'd get a muzzlebrake, instead of using a too-small cartridge.
My main complaint with the 243 was that a deer shot with it in a vital area would sometimes go far enough that I couldn't find it. Don't somebody tell me there's anything wrong with my tracking abilities, either. I'm talking about a deer trotting off into "hand grenade country", where only a dog could track one under some circumstances we encounter hunting here in October and November.
Another thing I don't like about the 243 for deer is that it just doesn't pack enough wallop for long shots. Adulthood tells me to use enough gun to kill an animal quickly and humanely, and I just never did see where the 243 did that; not the way I have to use it.
To each his own, according to the situation, I guess. I'm not going to tell someone else that the 243 won't kill deer under the right circumstances; but don't tell me it's a good deer cartridge for people who'd use it like I would.

Nice first post Bullet , wlecome to the board. It is about opinions & observations, it's just some guys get all bent out of shape because someone else disagrees. There are no absolutes (VG) but we all are allowed our opinions.

I used a 243 for over 13 years killing deer, yote and pretty much anything else that I needed to shot and never had any problem! everything was shot with the Nosler 70gr. BT, the barrel was shot out of this rifle and I thought that I was older I'd get a larger rifle I mean hey I'm too old for a little ol' 243 anyway so I got a 25-06, it kicked a little harder that the 243 but hey I was shooting those big ol' 100gr bullets. The first deer shot with that rifle took off in a dead run something I had not seen before and piled up 100 or so yards, doe day came around and I popped a nice little doe and she took off for the hills just like the little buck did 7 days earlier? each and every deer I shot with that rifle run from 50 to 150 yards and all with lung shots. I got back into varmint hunting and got a 22-250 and I use the Sierra Gameking bullets in 55gr, well I had shot my buck the first part of the season and the last day I was going to hunt that evening with some budies so I thought I'd call yote that morning, I called no yotes but I had a couple does pretty well upset about my calling and I thought why not the shot was around 70 yards and at the crack of the rifle the doe went down, bang flop! so far the 25-06 has found a new home and the 22-250 is 14 for 14 on deer and none have gone over 30 yards and 90% are DRT. I think the biggest deal with saying that the small calibers are not BIG enough is that while I'm not a small guy it's just that most of the folks have magnumitis and feel that they are not a man with such a wimpy round! now while a 30-06 will make up for a bad shot better than a 243 it will kill a deer as well as any rifle out there! it just does not make up for human error! most of you guys would not belive it but I would say that more deer have been taken with a 22 rimfire than the 270 and 30-06 together. Later,

Kirk

Fredj338;
Thanks for the welcome. Yes, everyone is entitled to his opinion. That's what makes it interesting. Most of these disagreements I've seen on forums boil down to two or three things: Not reading the whole post; not answering a post, but getting off on a tangent; or ignoring the intent of the post--either for fun or out of lack of sleep... Anyway, it's interesting, and I feel like I've found a goldmine of information. I just have to pick the wheat from the chaff.

I've never shot a deer with any 6 mm, but I'm intrigued by this thread, and I have a purely theoretical question to which there may be no satisfactory answer (theoretically, it should be so, but practically, it just isn't).

For starters, I assume that if I place a well-constructed bullet correctly into a deer's chest, the worst case will be death by bleeding. (I think of my bullets a little like broad-head arrows, and if I get a bang-flop, great, but I assume I won't; plus I'm not persuaded that raw bullet energy necessarily translates into "instantaneous death", even if a bullet loses all its energy in the vitals).

So to me, the issue is, first, one of penetration (will the bullet reach the vitals?) and second, enough expansion (will the bullet expand enough to cause lots of bleeding?).

Having said all that, I look at sectional density, which I regard (crudely) as an index of penetration, with bullets of equal SD, of equal construction and flying equally fast hitting the same media penetrating equally, irrespective of their diameters.

So -- if you have bullets of like SD and like construction (say, something like Barnes .24 and .25 cal) flying at like speeds, why wouldn't the .24 cal kill just about as well as the .25 (the only difference being from the 0.014 inch greater diameter of the .25)?

Is my reasoning sound and does it work that way, or is it as Yogi Berra said, "In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not."

Brian

Well, I read this entire thread. Let me start by saying, I have never killed a deer or any other animal with a a 243/6mm. This thread reminds me of the Jim Rome "smack off" competition. So, while trying to adhere to the sensitivity training the Navy decided was necessary, let me tell you why I have not chosen to hunt deer with this caliber. One... Geographic location. All of my hunting takes place in the laurel choked foothills of the Blue Ridge mountains. In my hunting area, a shot of 100yds. is a long shot. Normal range is 15-50 yards. The flat trajectory of the 243/6mm is not needed. Two...Game Species Diversity. I know this thread is soley pertaining to deer, but let me explain the South Carolina deer season. Rifle season lasts from Oct.10 - Jan. 1 and has a 2 week break in the middle around Thanksgiving for bears. During deer and bear season hogs are also on the meun. So the chosen caliber needs to be really versatile even if it is just a "deer" gun. If you want to shoot a 300# wild boar with a 243 and then "fix bayonet" and go into a laurel thicket after it when you aren't sure if it is dead or not, by all means be my guest. Me, I would rather have a 30cal+ bullet that is going to make 2 holes in whatever I shoot; be it a trophy whitetail, doe, or hog. Having said that, I will aknowledge that usually I am overgunned for deer. Those are the facts of life in MY hunting scenario. If I lived in the more open terrains where it seems most of the 243/6mm supporters reside, I could see myself using it to kill deer. My background with the heavier Cals. has colored my thinking though and I would probably still hunt with something throwing a little larger pill. For those using the 243/6mm to effectively kill deer, I give kudos and dont malign your choice. Please show myself and others that use larger calibers to effectively to do the same (but sometimes different) job the same respect. PS... if someone is gonna flame me, please do a good job at it. Since I am new here and I don't want to see the bottle bounce when someone tries christens this new ship.

Here is the main purpose of a deer rifle, kill what you shoot! am I wrong? while I live in Oklahoma and have some pretty open spaces I also have some pretty thick stuff in Eastern Oklahoma where I hunt and could see a larger bullet with a slower velocity (Kinda a brush buster) would be of help. Deer are really not that hard to kill! a yote is a hard sucker to kill and we shoot them with so called varmint calibers? the whole thing boils down to what can said shooter shot well enough to put a bullet in the boiler maker be it a 55gr. 22 caliber bullet or a 180gr. 30 caliber bullet. Now on the other hand we have those shooters that get a little excited and don't put the bullet just where it should go and the larger calibers will make up a bit for the less than perfect shot with a little more shock and damage. I am by no way saying that a 30 caliber is TOO much for deer nor will I say that the 22 caliber (or 6mm) is RIGHT for everyone but I will say that bullet placement is the first step to a clean kill! can anyone argue that point and if you can argue that a well placed bullet is not a big deal PLEASE explain casue I may have missed something. Later,

Kirk