Seams we trade opinions on the .243 and its use as a deer cartridge every once in awhile. Here is my view for what it is worth.

There was a time when most American hunters were "deer hunters". Then "varmint hunting" began to gain in popularity. Many hunters wanted to do both and wanted one rifle to do both with. So rem. came up with the 6mm and Win. came up with the .243. They were designed to fit the "need" of a varmint/deer cartridge.

They are on the edge of "too much power" for a meat and fur friendly varmint round and on the edge of "not enough power" to be a great deer stopper. But they can be used for both jobs.

A few years back I bought a Rem. 788 in .243 for my kids to hunt deer and pronghorn with. I enjoyed shooting it at the range so much I used it myself some. It shoots like a dream. It has taken a number of deer and pronghorn, but I have never been real happy with it. I lost a big white-tail (found dead a few days later) with it do to circumstance and the fact there was no blood trail. A couple deer were found after some searching (no blood trail). I think I will keep it for coyotes and get my daughter a bit bigger cartridge (6.5X55 or .260 or 7mm08)

The .243 will kill deer and a lot of people have and will kill a lot of deer with it. I just think there are some better options. Esp. for the BIG deer in the west.

Robin

Robin:

I've ended up with a similar opinion. Although I've chosen the 6.5mm as my deer caliber, I could also see the .25 caliber as well. I'd feel more comfortable with bullet weights above 100 grains and closer to 120 grains for deer (117 grains for the .25s and 125 grains for the 6.5mms) as my smallest and lightest choices.

What's nicer about the 6.5mms over the .25s is that they can handle bullets up to 160 grains (with the right twist) and take on quite large game, whereas the .25s can't, thereby making the 6.5mms more versatile.

FWIW I never saw the point of using a 25-06 (or 257Bob)
to drive 120gr bullets at speeds that a 30-06 can drive 165gr bullets, I just don't get it...

I think that for deer anything heavier than a 125gr from a 6.5bore is not going to kill any more quickly.

as for the 243 being popular as a "beginner's cartridge"
I think it's the dumbest thing I've ever heard and I keep hearing it over and over.

If someone is going to flinch from a 7mm-08 or 260Rem
they are going to flinch when firing a 243 too.

I believe the big issue with recoil and flinching with new shooters is getting them a rifle that is TOO LIGHT, not a caliber that kicks too hard.

AllanD

For me, deer/antelope rounds start @ the .25 caliber & up. My choice is a .280rem. or 7x57 or 7-08, take your pick. Recoil, even in a very light wt. rifle is there but not a problem. I have been playing w/ a .260ai in a target rifle & like the way it performs on paper. With 90g bullets @ 3400fps & 140gr bullets @ 2800fps it is a good choice for a dual purpose varmint/deer round. I could see getting a little .260 for antelope & deer but reserve the little .243 as a hell of a varmint cartridge out as far as you can connect.

The .243 is a great round, a lot of people up here swear by it. Manitoba bucks can grow quite large, due to eating habits neccessitated by the long, cold winters and an abundance of quality food. And I have seen some guys I once considered "lucky SOB's" make shots with a .243 that ballistically don't make sense. But the .243 instills confidence when shooting, it is quite accurate in general, has a flat trajectory, and minimal recoil. It is very effective on deer, which I have witnessed firsthand. 300 yards is no problem if the shooter is capable. The cartridge can deliver, especially with good handloads. That's when I realized that maybe they aren't so lucky after all, it's just a combination of good shooting and good loads that brings in the game.

It's a favorite of farmers around here, it's very friendly on the shoulder, wallet, and not so loud as to annoy the neighbours. It'll easily take the fall deer, as well as coyotes, fox, muskrat, beaver, and any other small game or pest you can think of that may need to be relocated to the dinner plate.

As for me, my experience with the .243 is limited. But I have spent a good deal of time with the 6mm Remington in an old Parker Hale. And it was incredibly comfortable and easy to shoot! Of course, the 6mm Remington, especially with stout handloads, slightly outpaces the smaller .243, resulting in maybe an extra 50 or so yards over it's smaller brother in terms of trajectory and energy. But it's all about bullet placement, a 100gr. 6mm will go deep and true on small and medium game every time.

Duffy4: You KIND OF glossed over the "do to circumstances" wherein the deer died, but not being found on the date it was shot!
I have killed lots of Deer and Antelope with the various 243 and 6mm cartridges and find them not only lethal but VERY lethal on said game!
In my experience they all attain the staus of being WAY MORE "POWERFUL" than the minimum needed to be a "Deer stopper"!
A Deer or Antelope shot properly (through the heart/lungs) will die next to immediately IF NOT immediately!
I have seen this happen so many times it is simply irrefutable!
Perhaps you did not make an autopsy of the Deer that you found dead - a few days later, but I am willing to bet a steak dinner it was NOT shot PROPERLY i.e. through the heart/lungs area!
Yes, with just the simplest of care in choosing a proper bullet to begin with and then proper shot placement on Deer and Antelope, the 243 is a wonderful cartridge for this type Hunting.
Dittoes for Varmints - proper bullet choice and proper shot placement = dead Varmints!
Fur saving with the 24's is a little more complicated but still can be achieved.
If you don't want to divulge the circumstances of your ONE bad experience with the 243 then don't - but if I were you I would not condemn the 243 based on one singular event (human error?).
Long live the 243 Winchester!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

The .243 is a good deer rifle and will work for the largest deer with proper bullets. I have typically had deer run 30-50 yards with a lung shot and fall over, typical performance. It is a mistake to think that if a youngster can handle a .243, he can handle a 7-08, etc. By using that logic, if you can handle a 7-08 you can handle a .30-06. If you can handle a .30-06 you can handle a 9.3x62, etc. My son when he was 9 or ten and had already killed a few deer with a .220 Swift, I fixed up a .243 from leftover parts for him to shoot. He was deadly with the Swift, after a few shots couldn't shoot the .243 accurately at all. Even its miniscule recoil was bothering him. I pulled the pad off and drilled a 1 in. hole in the butt and filled it with No. 8 shot, it was heavier than hell but he shot it with no problem. I think there were more good shooters made by the old .243 Winchester than any other caliber, particularly casual shooters.

Well since nobody from Texas has gotten involved yet, I'll be the first. Please take time to read the whole post, don't just skip to the chase.

The way deer in almost 100% of the cases are shot here in Texas, the 243 and even the 224 centerfires, have a big following. In most cases the shooter is setting at an enclosed bench rest, looking at a target, that in nearly all cases is less than 150 yards away, thaty is busy feeding on scattered grain.

We Texans are world famous for our neck and head shots with 223's, 22-250's, and the 243. I have even heard some hunters contemplate using the 204 ruger.

When I started looking for a rifle for my wife to shoot deer with, I neatly sidestepped the 243 and went with Mrs. O'Connors favorite, the 257 Roberts.

Over the years I had seen wat too many deer lost or blown to pieces with 243's. I figured that she would be better off with the heavier bullets out of the 25 cal.

Now I have recommended both the 22 centerfires and the 243 for beginning hunters here in Texas, simply because I am familiar with how most of the shooting of deer takes place.

If a person isn't going to ever go somewhere else to hunt, or go after some of the larger exotics here, then the smaller rifles will do what these folks are wanting done.

Personnally, I wished that Texas Parks and Wildlife, would establish the 243 as the minimum caliber allowed for deer or other big game, in the state.

I have shot deer with lora's 257, and my 6.5x55. My favorite deer guns however are all 30 cal. and above. With the exception of an axis doe I shot with the 257, and the Javelina I shoot with my 22 Hornet, the last dozen or so whitetails and half dozen or so Feral Hogs have been taken with either a 35 Whelen, 340 Weatherby, or 375 H&H. I have even killed one deer in the past 6 years with a 458 Win.Mag.

I don't recommend what I shoot if someone asks, but I will throw the 243 in with such things as the 257 or 25-06, 260, 270, 6.5x55 or 7x57, 308, 30-06. The 243 can get the job done, but there is not much room for error. The larger calibers provide a little bit of a comfort zone, just in case you don't make a perfect shot. JMO

I have a lot of experience with the 243 and 6MM. I just can't see why ahyone who has used these two rounds on deer would say they are not plenty powerful enough for deer. The damage done on chest hits with the Speer 105 gr. Hotcor, Corelokts, Sierra GK and Hornady interloks in 100 gr. is extensive. As far as penetration goes I rarely recovered a bullet on behind the shoulder hits. I have used both rifles on feral hogs that weighed around 200 pounds and had no problems. I like to utilize the animals I shoot to the fullest and generally don't shoot directly into the shoulder but have and have to say meat damage can be pretty serious. I keep my shots under 250 yards and either shoot for the neck just in front of the shoulder or for the ribs right at the middle of the chest just behind and a bit above the deers elbow.

My exoerience with the .243 is quite thin, having never shot a deer with one, but backing up hunters using one. At one time I have hunting priviliges on a private ranch in Nevada. I watched six deer taken on that ranch by people using my .243 which I used mainly as a loaner. The load was a stiff handload using the 100 hr. Hornady Interlocks, a bullet my rifle really liked. One deer shot at about 60-70 yards dropped like a rock. Of the other five deer, most ran from 50 to 100 yards before dropping, and one large 4x4 buck ran over 200 yards before crashing into a barb wire fence, bouncing back and hitting the fence ain, and doing this one more time before expireing. Damndest thing I ever saw. The terrain was mainly open with little "ditches" meandering every which way. Tall willows grow from these ditches which did restrict visibility some, but not enough that we could not see where the deer went, which was a good thing as there was no blood trail from those five deer. The one that ran 200 yards had his heart totally destroyed.
The Chief In structor in the Hunter Ed. group I work with is a big fan of the .243/6MM Rem. clan and will use nothing else. He's been using one or the other for the last 33 years. last year, after 31 years of one shot kills, he almost lost a deer. After about six hours of hard looking they finally found his animal. The entrance wound had closed up and there was no exit wound. He said the blood trail was quite sparse and he felt he was lucky to even find the deer. It hadn't gone all that far, maybe 150-200 yards at best, but the brush was quite thick in that area.
me? I think I'll stick to my 7x57 aas the minimun cartridge for deer.
Paul B.

Paul B: I am at a loss to explain (or understand) how a Deer could run 200 yards with its heart "totally destroyed". With a destroyed heart the Deer would loose consciousness within 6 seconds! 125 yards maybe? But of all the heart shot Deer I have observed (and that has literally been hundreds!) NONE have gone 200 yards unless it was straight down hill and the "roll" was included!
Forgetting that, lets move on to the hunters education teacher and his one troubling harvest with his 243.
WHERE was that animal struck with the 243's bullet?
Was your friend using his "normal" bullet, with which he had had so much success prior?
In thick brush a properly struck (heart/lung shot) Deer with a proper bullet should have been dead within 100 yards!
That would go along with my extensive observations and experiences to date.
I have seen Deer poorly struck by Hunters bullets from Magnum Rifles of all types - and the resulting tracking of the wounded game often required follow-up shots and sadly on some occassions the Magnum struck Deer were NOT retrieved at all! Would one infer then poor shot placement was the cause - I would!
The 243 Winchester cartridge holds no greater edge on causing the Hunter to take, make or try "bad" shots than ANY other caliber! A bad shot with a 243 is just as bad as a bad shot with a 7x57 or a 7mm Remington Magnum or a 340 Weatherby Magnum!
243 Winchester + good bullet + good shot = Dead Deer!
That is a fact!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Oh my gosh VarmintGuy, I am in complete agreement ....the .243 is an excellent caliber. Too bad most folks underestimate it's abilities.

MG

duffy4:
Minor point....The Remington round was the 244 Rem. not the 6mm. Remington changed the name later to 6mm.
I've had one since the late 50s. Paid $70 for it. I bought it over the Win. because of the increased case capacity. I've shot a truck load of Washington state Mule deer, Alaska Caribou and Dall sheep with it. It's my favorite rifle. I tried it on Goats, not big enough. Goats are tough.
My Dad used to tell me, "Damn, I wish you would use another gun, that damn thing ruins to much meat."
I finally shot the barrel out and need to rebarrel it.
I guess, from the above post, you can tell I think a 244/6mm is a fine deer cartridge.

In my opinion it is one of the best cartridges for a youngster to start with on deer sized game. I bought my daughter a Remington Model Seven in .243 when she was nine. With it in the next few years she took mule deer, whitetail deer, javelina, pronghorn, and several species of African plains game. All one shot. The key is not so much the size of the bullet but where you place it.

Duffy......when I was a young man, I knew an old guy that had worked for the railroad, in his prime......His work? Furnishing meat for the rest of the crew. Mostly they ate venison, with the odd antelope, and, or, goat for variety. His caliber of choice? The powerful 25-35 Winchester. Why? Larger calibers destroyed too much valuable meat.....And, of course, he was an expert hunter. Another point.......In the old days, the rifle most likely to be found beside the back door for shots of opportunity, would most likely be a 25-20, in one of a host of configurations. Literally tons of venison have been harvested for subsistence, with the lowly 25-20. And what about the snappy 44 rimfire.......A fellow armed with one of the Henrys in this caliber, could not only harvest his deer for the winter, but could fend off the odd Indian attack too........Or go north to the land of the Innuit....There the .22 Magnum is the primary hunting caliber, for caribou, or even moose........When one considers what was used to kill most of the deer ever killed on this planet, the fine .243 seems very efficient..........Close to home, I am limited by law, to using a shotgun, with single slug. My model 12 Winchester, 20 ga. brings home the venison, most years......But, I would be happy as hell, if I could carry my old model 70, .243 this fall. I know it would do the job. Grant.

I've posted before that I've started each grandchild out with a T/C Contender Carbine in 7-30 Waters using the 120gr bullet. However (ain't there always the however?), I've also let them use my .243 when they are large enough to carry it and need the extra range for an area.
Long ago...specifically in west Texas... I learned that an adequate bullet was needed on deer. The 85gr varmint bullets didn't seem to do the job. The 105gr Speer, 100gr Hornady, and the Nosler Partitions always gave sufficient penetration for whitetails. Here in Colorado, they do great on pronghorn and doe mule deer. There are some big bucks that may take more. My bumming around rifles are either the T/C in 7-30, or...drum roll...the .243.

I just don't buy it. All of my experiences with the 243 Win and good shot placements required some extra effort to dispatch the game animal(i.e. Shooting it again with another weapon).

Maybe it has just left a bad taste in my mouth but it just seems borderline for big game and I'm not even going to bring the Texas issue but there is a reason why it has the slogan,"It's like a whole other country!"

I've personally shot deer behind the shoulder with high-velocity 85gr. cup-core bullets all the way to 100gr. Nosler Partitions out of a .243 win and in both cases I was not even close to being satisfied with the results.

I think this is very close to the issue of using .277 caliber and smaller rifles on anything bigger than a deer. It can be done but is it ethical for every situation? That's for every hunter to decide for themselves and you reap what you sew.

My feeling toward the .243 win after having experience with it isn't pleasant and I'm not impressed. But if you make a clean kill kudos to you, but I'm not going to try it again.

In my first post I didn't want to complicate things with a story about the "circumstances" of not finding the buck the day it was shot. But this is how it went. I was after a good buck who was "with" a doe. On a narrow hand cut line in fairly heavy bush. I had a chance and shot for the bucks chest. Snow on the trees came down in a shower at the shot and the next think I see is the doe bounding off to the left of the line. I move up slowly and two deer go bounding off to the left in the area I'd last seen the doe. No blood or hair on the line and a lot of deer tracks in the snow going every which way. I hurried ahead to try to see the deer and come to a road. I got out on the road and go left to another road and left on it. All the while inspecting all the deer tracks I find crossing the road. No blood or hair. I go back to the intersection of the first roads I walked and wait where I can look down each for a long way. I see a good buck (the same one I shot at???) cross the road 300 yards away. I go back to my truck and get in and drive down to where I last saw the last buck. Walk back and forth on the road looking for blood. No sign. Can you guess where the buck was found two days later?


Where the buck had been standing when I first shot, he had run off to the right when I could not see. The doe had run left and then the two deer I bumped had run off to the left and the good buck that I saw cross the road made me think he was the original buck. The first buck was shot in the boiler room and died in the heavy bush about 45 yards and probably a couple seconds of being hit. If he had been in a fairly open area I probably would have seen him fall or would have seen which way he went. If the bullet had passed through and left a drop or two of blood in the snow I would have followed to the right and got him. If the two deer hadn't been where they were and ran left I would have looked harder in the area of the shot. If the other good buck had not crossed the road in my sight and lead me away in that direction I may have looked harder where the shot was taken. Most of the game I've shot has been with a .264 win. mag. and it normally makes a big hole and lots of blood. If I had been using it that day I think I would have found that buck. The "shot placement" was ok and the bullet performed well INSIDE THE BUCK but not outside the buck.

I am not saying a .243 will not kill deer or bigger game. And i am sure that in many situations it is and has been and will be a devistating deer killer. I just have found in my experience and that of some othere I have heard that it is on occasion not the best round for the job.

And I really do not hold to the old adages like "shot placement is everything" it isn't And " A poor hit with any cartridge is still a poor hit" That is also not true.

Robin

My first deer rifle was a 30-30. After a few years with it I stepped up to a remington 700 in 7mm Rem Mag. While that rifle definately would put the smack down on whitetails it was fairly large, heavy, and destroyed a lot of meat.

RIght after I got to college I picked up a browning Eurobolt in 243 with the boss. It was light, handy, and extremely accurate. After getting the Boss CR it was about perfect. I picked it up for coyote hunting. After using it for a season on predators I was really falling in love with that little rifle.

The next deer season came around and I decided to try it out on deer. The federal premium 100gr Sierra GK was the first load I tried and it shot so well I haven't shot anything else out of it in over 11 years. Many coyotes, several fox, uncountable crows and woodchucks, and 17 whitetails have fallen in that time. All with the same rifle and load. Most of the whitetails dressed out around 130-160lbs but two of them were real bruisers one at 178lbs and the other at 206lbs on the hog scale. The shots ranged from 70-280 yards,

I've only had to shoot one twice and it was my fault, a glancing shot off the back that did no real damage. The next few were right on target as it ran away. The low recoil and extreme accuracy of the .243 made the next few shots possible. 20 yard blood trail, great blood trail, very dead whitetail.

Very little blood isn't a characterisic of the smaller calibers, I saw a whitetail get shot right in the boiler room with a 30/06 with 150gr coreloks one time, ran 60 yards without a drop of blood on the ground. The only reason we even found it is it happened to die laying across the trail we walked into the stand on.

My last whitetail with my 243.

Duffy4

Dosen't sound like the rifle was to blame at all. Many years ago I almost did the same thing shooting a deer with my 22 hornet. At the the shot deer started to run every where. I followed the wrong one for some ways.

But I know that heart lung shot deer do not go much over 100 yards. So I went back to the place of the shot there was my deer laying dead about 3 feet from where I hit it.

You got fooled by the other deer and failed to do a proper followed up and ended up blameing the caliber instead of yourself. I can easy see how it was done.

One of the guys I was hunitng with did the same thing shot a deer with a 8X57 170 gr hornday at 2500 fps. When I got up to him he said I shot the and the deer ran off. I asked him where the cross hairs where he said right behind the shoulder. He directed me to the spot where the deer stood I did a couple of circles and found his deer. No blood no hair Just good follow up.

A couple of years ago I shot a deer with my 416 taylor early season no snow about 45yards with a 300 gr resized serria 44 bullet at 2650fps broad side shot through the last couple of ribs. I didn't find blood for 20 yards or so and very little of it to the deer 60 yards away. A rifle with a bit more thump then the 243 don't you think. Again good follow up.

To many people end up blaming the gun bullets and other factors when it is the shooter.

The two biggest deer I've ever seen were shot with a .243. Huge bodied deer and the smaller one went 166 B&C. The larger was shot on the far side of 250 yards. Went less than 50 yards. To me it's a matter of using the correct bullet and putting it in the right place. Deer are not that tough despite what we'd like to think. I've got one buck that was killed with a hard cast bullet out of a hundred year old 25-20WCF. Went about 40 yards, less than some I've gotten with my old .270 and fast opening 130's.

Let me start off by saying I have never killed a deer with a 6mm. However, I knew many people who hunted very happily with 6mms growing up in PA including several family members and saw a lot of deer killed with them. Most were .243 Wins, some were 6mm Rems. I don't remember the 6mms losing any more deer than people using 06s, .308s, .30-30s and the like. I'm not talking they only took standing shots with everything perfect nor am I saying that I've seen a lot of lost deer. In a lot of cases, the deer were driven or alarmed and on the move. When poorly hit with large cals, I have not noticed them being any easier to find when poorly shot with 6mms. When hit correctly, the deer died quickly. In theory, the larger cals should give a better blood trail on a gut/poor shot, but maybe I have just not seen enough gut shot deer for the averages to work out in their favor.

Further, it always seemed to me when somebody shoots something with a 6mm and get no blood trail or the animal runs 100 yards before it falls, it's because the 6mm is inadequate. When the same thing happens with a .30-06 (or any larger cal), it's just that was one tough deer or it was an anomoly.

Now, my point is not that a .243 is the end of all of deer calibers, I'm just saying that it is a fine deer caliber. Maybe on very large deer there would be a difference, but I certainly didn't see it on PA whitetails.

-Lou

Here we go again... We continue to flog this dead horse. Let's just face it, gentlemen: we are all products of our experiences, and it is very hard to convince any of us that there is a better way to do something, if we have done it our way and made it work.

My son shot his first whitetail at age nine, and he shot it with my .270. At age eleven, he had a customized Springfield in 7X57 with a #4 contour barrel, because the added weight would help with felt recoil. That rifle flattens stuff. Period. Bang-flop, get out the knife.

Why did I not go with a .243? Several reasons: bullet weight, bullet diameter, retained energy, and probably the most important, IMHO, the fact the .243 was originally designed for long range varmint hunting. A few hotshots decided to put heavy bullets in the rifle and shoot deer with it. It kills deer. End of story. But consider this:

I have shot pigs with a .22 short and killed them deader than last year's bird nest. Proper application? Not hardly. But the pigs are dead, and were long ago consumed. They were in a trap, and the shots were directly into the brain. The animal was not going to run off where it could be possibly lost. I had complete control of the situation... But having said all that, there are (and always will be) better cartridges for the application.

The same goes for the .243. It will, under the right conditions, kill deer. It does so with incredible repeatability every year. But I respectfully submit these thoughts, and I will shut up:

* Look back at previous posts and read about the bullets that did not come out, or didn't leave a blood trail. Little hole in leaves little hole out. (IF the bullet comes out.)

* The .243 uses high velocities to add kinetic energy to a bullet. It does so to compensate for lack of projectile mass. But that increases the potential for bullet failure: thicker jacket means less lead in the core, therefore lighter weight. Thinner jacket, more weight, but more frangibility. It is just a losing proposition with smaller diameter projectiles.

* The .243 messes up a lot of meat. (See above posts.) Bloodshot meat makes for more work at the butchering table, and therefore more waste, from where I stand.

* Deer are not deer. A Hill Country (TX) whitetail buck typically weighs 120-130# on hoof. Not so in Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Michigan, etc... Bigger deer have thicker bodies, and it takes more retained energy to punch through the off side, and leave a blood trail.

* A body dies from lack of oxygen to the muscles, unless brain shot. Please predict for me, exactly how much oxygen a deer's body has in it at any given moment. Add to that the rush of adrenaline at the shot, and then tell me a mortally wounded deer ,with fully oxygentated blood, cannot travel 200 yards. I know better!

Flame away, gentlemen...

This is one of those discussions that I never understand. Arguing about a cartridge that as been doing its job, killing deer since about 1955, over 50 years. Deer are easy to kill with damn near anything, .223 and up. I'm in Mo., so I'm not talking south Texas deer. The .243 is absolutely a capable deer rifle, I imagine i've seen a couple hundred shot with it over the years, yes some will go 50-60 yards. I recently had a big buck run that far that I shot through both lungs at about 50 feet with a 162 Hornady out of a 7Mag, one of my buddies finished him as he ran right into him. What does this mean? If you shoot enough of them with the same shot, some will flop, some will run, and no one knows why. I've shot a number of deer including one big 12 point at 300 yards with a .220 Swift, none has taken the first step yet. My nephew has a 160 B&C buck on his wall shot when he was 10 with a .22-250,a one shot kill. He shot his meat doe this year(he's 17 now) with a head shot with a .17HMR after killing a 171 net B&C buck with a 7 Mag. This is not a flame, just stating facts. I started shooting deer as a kid, Mo. now has an unlimited number of antlerless tags in my area, you shoot as many as you want to buy tags for, as well as a winter doe only season, so I've seen a few killed, and many big bucks. In 1988, my hunting group killed 9 whitetails that were over 150 B&C in one season, bow and rifle and muzzleloader seasons, so we're not shooting 1st year fawns either. By the way, my favorite is the 7x57, but i'm not much afraid to shoot a deer with anything, the fact is for most people they will lose less deer with a .243 than a .30-06 if they are casual shooters as their placement will likely be better. Just this year, I had a friend I worked with who wanted to shoot a deer, didn't own a rifle. I took him out let him borrow and practice with the .243, he shot a buck the first day at 200 yards. He probably hadn't shot a centerfire rifle for ten years, but the .243 didn't bother him, just let him make a good shot.

When Iam after a big set of horns I am more likely to carry my 7x57, 270 or 30-06. I know they will provide deeper penetration with the heavier bullets and I will use this to my advantage if necessary. My principal use for my 6's nowadays is to fill my doe tags, small feral hogs and coyotes. I like to use them in somewhat more open country than I would the other cartridges and where ranges are not to the extreme. As for guessing how far a deer might run when hit with any of them I just can't come up with one being superior to the other and good blood trails usually mean good hits and quickly found deer. Poor blood trails mean poorly hit deer and some work put int the recovery. Waiting 45 minutes before the follow up makes finding your deer a lot easier.

I've never owned a 243 but several friends have and I've seen the end result.....it's dead deer again and again.

I've been mostly using the slightly larger 25-06 and now the 257 Roberts and I still use 100 grain bullets in the Roberts.....again dead deer is dead deer!!!!! Ya can't knock success.

Today I'm working up loads for what I suspect will be my last deer rifle.....it's a '98 Mauser in 6.5 X 55 and I'm handloading Northfork 120s for it. So far it seems to be a keeper although I've shot nothing with it yet besides paper and a few bowling pins.

My point?.....the .243 and other 100 grain hunting bullet shooting rifles have never let me down.....EVER!!!!!....but I'm wanting just a little more bullet......and not really sure why!!!!!!!

I just might rechamber my 6.5 X 55 to 6.5-06 later but for now it's planty impressive....

Madgoat: Thank you for the consensus on the 243 Winchester. It is an excellent round for Deer of all sizes as well as Antelope!
Dang Antelope draw here in Montana is not until August!
HEY game department I have a life to run out here - lets get a move on!
Hope things are well in Wyoming.

Billinthewild: Your observations of your dauhgter coincide with my observations and first hand experiences.

Magnum61: I take this opportunity to disagree with you absolutely! Please review my previous posts.
And for the record as well, you stated "Big Game Hunting" and your logo shows a Moose! This discusssion is about Deer and Antelope with a 243 Winchester. I do not recommend the 243 Winchester for Moose or Elk!
It's just this simple Magnum61, if you are not experienceing one shot kills on Deer with a 243 you are either using the wrong bullet or placing the bullet in the wrong spot! Nothing you have relayed even comes close to disuading my high opinion of the 243 on Deer/Antelope. I simply have to much first hand experience with it and know better.
There is absolutely NO "it can be done" with a 243 on Deer - if it AIN'T being done then one of the two rules above have been violated! These rules can be violated by inexperienced folks with ANY caliber Rifle! Once those two rules are violated with ANY caliber, problems will arise.
Following your train of illogical thought (277 minimum caliber!) then the 257 Roberts is not suitable for Deer, nor the 25/06, nor the 250/3000 - let alone the 243/6mm's!
If you had to gut all the Deer that these fine cartrdiges have killt since their inception - you would be cleaning dead Deer for the rest of your life!
Are you SERIOUSLY suggesting only cartridges of 277 caliber and larger be used on Deer and Antelope?
If you are then Magnum61 you are quite full of hot air!
A more ridiculous contention/posting I have not seen in many a year and believe me I have seen some doozies!
Yes using the 243 Winchester for EVERY "situation" IS ethical!
Or have you forgotten that a true sportsman should never take a shot unless said sportsman is certain of a humane harvest with that shot? The situation of ethics regarding a shot at game is not built around or built to exclude the 243 - it is to cover every caliber any Hunter uses!
Bad shot offered by the game simply calls for patience to solve. Not a 270 Winchester NOR a 340 Weatherby!
I have as of yet failed to "reap" any head of Deer or Antelope I have shot at, with any of my 6mm's!

Duffy4: Sorry you did not find that Deer in a timely manner! But it sure sounds to me like the 243 Winchester was not to blame.
Your denial of shot placement being the most important part of clenaly harvesting Deer sized game simply does not impress me. Shot placement IS the single most important factor in cleanly killing game - I think it has always been that way and probably always will be! That is unless "poison" bullets are someday made legal!
And I don't see that happening in my lifetime so I will stick with carefully placing a bullet through the heart/lungs of the game I wish to cleanly harvest!
I don't see how any true medium sized game Hunter can deny that a poor hit with any caliber is NOT a poor hit!
Poor hits on game are to be avoided at all costs!
Your denial of these time proven and self evident theorums about game shooting distress's me. It again, is an unimagineable position for a Hunter to have in my opinion.
It sounds like you are trying to rationalize and justify poor shooting for a reason to use large calibers!
Next to blasphemy that!
That type rationalization is irresponsible and unsportsmanlike!
You can try to live with that duffy4 if you choose - I won't!

Thebear_78: That is a beautiful Rifle in 243 there! I am not familiar with it. Does Browning still make it?
Good for you and your record with the 243. Many happy returns of your success's with it.

Doubles: Here comes some "flame" (corrections) your way! Put your flame suit on!
Please see below *** for tips on the origin and reason for Winchester designing the 243 Winchester cartridge!
First off a "MORTALLY" wounded Deer (or any animal!) can go a lot farther than 200 yards I have seen "moratlly wounded" game go 10 times that distance then die! They were mortally wounded. They were not obviously hit in the correct spot with a good bullet! I have never seen a Deer or an Antelope properly hit (herat/lungs) with a proper bullet go 200 yards - no matter what the caliber! This includes the 243 Winchester! I again say it can't be done unless its 200 yards steeply downhill and the roll is included!
Thats another reson a prudent Huter shoots a Deer or an Antelope through the heart/lungs with a good bullet Doubles! So there will be NO adrenaline blood flowing to all reaches of its flesh! A properly shot (through the heart/lungs) Deer or Antelope will not have the strong gamey, adrenaline soaked flesh taste that poorly struck game will have! I have seen this proven in side by side game shots several times. A quick kill means a better tasting head of game - its that simple. The 243 does that!
Your observations regarding the weight, diameter, energy and "original designs" are both incorrect and irrelevent. The 243 is a swift and humane killer of Deer and Antelope! Have you ever heard folks talk of lethality factorof a particular cartridge on game? Well the 243 Winchester has a very high lethality factor of Deer and Antelope! I know I have used them for some time now.
You are finally right in these regards (using YOUR OWN WORDS!) "the 243 kills Deer - end of story"! Next example of you apparently accidentally making a correct statement (again in your OWN WORDS!) "the 243 kills Deer with incredible repeatability every year"!
No need for you to "shut up" there Doubles but maybe you should first DECIDE which side of the 243 fence you REALLY are on!
Let me correct some more of your erroneous contentions regarding the 243! You state the 243 projectiles are prone to failure - I assume you are trying to intimate they are prone to failure on Deer and Antelope - that is balderdash! They are not!
I have as yet to have a failure (run off?) on Deer and Antelope with a 243/6mm bullet! They die and most often die VERY, VERY quickly when shot with a proper bullet in the proper spot (heart/lung area)!
Your conjecture on velocities and retained enery and kinetic energy don't mean a hill of beans as compared to the high lethality factor the 243 possess's on Deer and Antelope size game! Its that simple Doubles don't try to make it complicated.
A Deer or an Antelope that are properly shot with a 243 will leave a VERY obvious blood trail - not a long blood trail, but an obvious blood trail! Again, Doubles, if you are not going to shoot the Deer or Antelope through the heart/lungs with a proper bullet - hold off on the shot till you change things.
These two SIMPLE rules are exceedingly easy to comply with! And I would add those not having the intelligence or the energy to comply with these two rules about the 243 won't have the intelligence or energy to do it with any other cartridge.
Your "loosing proposition" contention regarding the 243 not being able to provide a lethal bullet to a lethal spot on a Deer or an Antelope is just preposterous!
Undeniably, utter rubbish, if you will!
I know better Doubles, I have done it and seen it done many, many dozens of times!
Your attempt at diversion and deception by ballistic chart has failed miserably on me for one there Doubles!
And perhaps your most preposterous statement of all, Doubles, is that "the 243 wastes MORE meat from where you stand"! Well to put it simply and bluntly Doubles you are standing in the wrong spot! A WAY, WAY, WAY, WRONG SPOT!
Again, using the proper bullet and the proper aim point on Deer and Antelope you will waste next to absolutely NO MEAT what so ever when using the 243! Unless you want to include the heart as edible meat - and I have found over the years Antelope heart is not very good eating! Who knows, maybe you eat lung - I know of no one else that does though.
I have killed large Deer with my various 6mm's including the 243 and no side of a Deer even came close to stopping the lethality of the 243! Of course I used the proper bullet to begin with and made proper shot placement!
One of the largest bodied Deer I have ever seen killed was taken with a heavy barrelled 243 Winchester at 300 yards+! This Deer succumbed to my friend Bill Wellands shot very quickly! That again was one well placed shot. That Okanogan County, Washington Buck I am sure was 270 pounds on the hoof!
I don't relay all the good experiences I and my Hunting mates have had with the 243 - space is just to limited - but I have as yet to see a 243 perform "poorly" on Deer or Antelope!
Its a proven winner in my experiences and observations.
You have been corrected there Doubles - consider it flaming if you want - I don't care! But your specious and untrue contentions have done nothing what so ever to curb my enthusiasm for the 243's on Deer and Antelope. I will take my field experiences and observations over your ballistic mumbo jumbo anyday!

Jstevens: Well said! I hope Doubles takes to heart your observations!!

Long live the 243's!

Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy



*** The Winchester Firearms Company brought out the 243 Winchester in 1955 it was announced as BOTH a Varmint caliber and a Deer sized game caliber (reference "The Riflemans Rifle" Roger Rule by Alliance Books 1982 page 95 - as well as many other pages). The cartridge was originally offered in the bolt action Model 70 Rifle and the lever action Model 88 (not exactly a Varmint Hunters longe range choice this latter Rifle!)!

Very well, "Vermin Guy"... At least you could have the decency to spell my moniker right...

You prove my point entirely: 30 minutes of mindless ranting will outweigh four hours of solidly backed data every time...

"I have seen." "I know better." "I don't care."

"You state the 243 projectiles are prone to failure - I assume you are trying to intimate they are prone to failure on Deer and Antelope - that is balderdash! They are not!"

Show me where I said that ".243 projectiles were prone to failure." I said no such thing...


I respectfully invite you to re-read the intro to my previous post...

I think the 243 Win is good or bad for hunting deer sized game. What I mean by this is that if a 243 is loaded with a 100 or 105 grain bullet that will open up quickly such as a hollow point they are deadly on deer if the bullet is put through the boiler room, however, if a stronger bullet that has a reputation of extreme penetration is used the wound channel is so small that not enough damage is done for a quick kill and not enough blood trail to track. This is my opinion from handloading for my three kids to deer hunt with my 243.

Nothing at all wrong with a 243 for deer or antelope. Its taken elk too but is probably not the best round for that.

Joezone

quote:

And I really do not hold to the old adages like "shot placement is everything" it isn't And " A poor hit with any cartridge is still a poor hit" That is also not true.

Varmint guy I will explain to you what I mean by that statement.

Let say that by "shot placement" we mean a bullet striking the "heart lung area". So you would say that if that happens it is "the most important factor". Lets say the deer was 300 yards from the shooter and the bullet was a slug from a 20 ga. shotgun. Well the amount of energy in the bullet is important. Lets say the bullet was a solid non-expanding bullet from a .375 H&H. Well it may make a neat hole throught without doing much dammage.
I would say that bullet placement (the area the bullet hits the deer) is one important factor, but bullet construction and bullet energy are two very important factors as well. (Remember I was against the statement many people use "bullet placement is everything")

A deer running away from a hunter is hit in the left hip with a .243 using an 87 gr. varmint type bullet. A POOR HIT. The bullet goes to pieces and the deer limps away to die somewhere sometime. The same deer is hit in the same place with a 30/06 and a 150 grain NP bullet. The bullet penatrates up through the body cavity and destroys a lot of tissue and creats a lot of bleeding and shock. The deer dies from a BAD HIT with a more powerful round and a better bullet.

So I stand behind what I said earlier, "shot placement is NOT everything" and "a poor hit with any cartridge is NOT still a poor hit"

Robin

VarmintGuy

quote:

"Big Game Hunting" and your logo shows a Moose! This discusssion is about Deer and Antelope with a 243 Winchester

What experiences have I shared that involved anything bigger than a Deer?

quote:

It's just this simple Magnum61, if you are not experienceing one shot kills on Deer with a 243 you are either using the wrong bullet or placing the bullet in the wrong spot!

My statement...

quote:

I've personally shot deer behind the shoulder with high-velocity 85gr. cup-core bullets all the way to 100gr. Nosler Partitions out of a .243 win and in both cases I was not even close to being satisfied with the results.

Another wonderfull Rant..

quote:

Are you SERIOUSLY suggesting only cartridges of 277 caliber and larger be used on Deer and Antelope?
If you are then Magnum61 you are quite full of hot air!

Parry!...(Don't see any suggestion to what you are ranting about here either!)

quote:

I think this is very close to the issue of using .277 caliber and smaller rifles on anything bigger than a deer. It can be done but is it ethical for every situation?

I was comparing one discussion to another not setting minemums.

And my personal Favorite..

quote:

A more ridiculous contention/posting I have not seen in many a year and believe me I have seen some doozies!
Yes using the 243 Winchester for EVERY "situation" IS ethical!
Or have you forgotten that a true sportsman should never take a shot unless said sportsman is certain of a humane harvest with that shot? The situation of ethics regarding a shot at game is not built around or built to exclude the 243 - it is to cover every caliber any Hunter uses!

First, after reading this you have shown that you either interpret what you read to your liking or you have a stunted reading level, which if you do I apologize.

Secondly, I don't understand why you rant about such a topic. Even when there is evidence provided to counter your non-supported facts about the 243. There also has to be something said about the fact of the 243 being originally produced for Varmint Hunting as Doubless stated. If a huge company is producing the cartridge and is not confident enough to put a "Deer Cartridge" suggestion to their marketing campaign to sell the rifle then that is what I call an ethical decision being made because enough people believed there wasn't enough there to give consumers that suggestion so that they would enjoy the cartridge for that use and they weren't sure of the results. Were "they" wrong? Sure, I will back that there have been many deer killed with the 243 but that doesn't mean they were all perfect nor is any other cartridge. There is a reason why people decided on minemums in their firearms for the game they chase and to each their own. But I consider this rant and arguement to be in the same field as with the people that will spit in your face if you say anything about the 270 win not being the perfect Elk Cartridge because Jack O'Conner told them so when the man didn't even hunt elk that much or even tote the catridge as being good choice for that game.

So if after this there is nothing you will read and fully understand then atleast I know I did my good deed for the day and entertained some person experiencing bordem and loneliness and also be able to move on to another thread and discuss topics with other "Sportsman" and leave you to enjoy your 243 win.

Here's to Short Actions and Small Bullets!! VarmintGuy

The biggest problem with the .243,is the vast majority of the dipshits crying about how inferior it is,have never even used a .243 or been present when one was used.

You'll here constantly how deadly a .25/06 is. Yet when you start looking into the projectiles the majority use in the 25/06.and 257 rob. You'll find that they use 100 gr bullets.with results imitating a lazer beam and lightning strike. Yet the 100 gr .243 bullet with a better sectional density then the .25 cal,just simply wounds and in many cases bounces off animals.

I've seen dozens of deer,antelope and elk fall to the .243 and a 100 gr core lokt its plenty capable. Sure I like more rifle for elk,but I've seen the .243 kill bulls just as dead as any 06 or 7 mag.

The problem with the net,is an over abundance of jerk offs with little or no hands on experience,telling fairy tales about shit they have no knowledge of.

quote:

Originally posted by duffy4:
Seams we trade opinions on the .243 and its use as a deer cartridge every once in awhile.

A .243 at 100 yards is a good simulator for 6mm-284 at longer range, a real timesaver. I do like the 6mm-284 as a rifle for sage flats.

Having said that, some friends and I hunted elk with Jack Hooker in Montana once; his backup gun was a .243 Winchester.

I view the 243 as a varmint cartridge. I have used it since 1957 and it's superb round that really hammers pests. If you do bullet testing in media you will find that small bullets make small cavities and large bullets make bigger and deeper cavities.

If a 243 bullet penetrates into a vital area of an animal it will kill it but if it hits the edge of a vital area it's smaller cavity may just cripple where the bigger round will get the game.

Just compare the cavity from say an ordinary round like the 270 to the 243 and you will see. Any adult can shoot a 270.

On the other hand we have big coyotes here now in the East and the 243 is perfect for those bastichs.

The internal damage done with a 100gr .243 bullet is quite catostrophic, most of the heart lung tissue forming a thick gooey soup. Compareing that to the damage done by a 35 rem, 30-30, or even the good old 06 with 180gr bullets and you will find much more soft tissue damage. They will all kill very dead though.

Here we go with this once again.
If you cant kill a deer with a 243 then you probably should find another hobby.
A 243 has, does and will continue to kill deer, antelope etc. for years to come.

These threads always crack me up. We get pretty bull headed about stuff.

I don't think much of the .243W! My dad loves his! It works fine when shots are carefully placed. But over the years I've been hunting I seem to hear more of the "lost him" stories than I care to. My smallest deer rifle is a Roberts and I know it isn't much different than a .243 but I have not lost anything I've shot it at.

I understood the analogy made by Magnum61, of the .270W and the .243W, and feel it isn't far from the truth. Let me explain it a bit before you torch me!

If someone comes to you asking for advice about guns you have to be careful what you recommend. If they are asking you if a .243W is "big enough" for deer, they obviously have very limited experience. For people with so little experience I think there are far better choices. The same holds true for Elk and the .270. If you're being asked if the .270 is enough gun for Elk then the answer is no!
I see the .243W as a minimal caliber for deer and not adviseable for elk, I see the .270 as minimal for elk. People who need this level of advice need a bullet delivered that will be a bit more forgiving, while someone who's more experienced can deliver the smaller bullets where they need to be, and still be very effective. They're not the ones asking for advice though!

IMHO a .25 caliber bullet by diameter only isn't a big improvement by itself. The weight of the bullet combined with the larger diameter does seem to yield better on game performance.

As much as I love the Quartebores, an accurate , modest weight .260 or Swede is probably one of the best "first" deer rifles. Nate

Well said Nate. I think hunting style has a lot to do with perception of how effective this or that cartrdige is on game. If you are keeping your shots under 200yds, bench rest setup in a stand, clear open ground or snow for tracking, etc. I see no reason a perfectly placed shot from a .243 or even a .223 won't drop deer. For the guy that spot & stalks, has to shoot from field positions, maybe perfect shot placement isn't as likely.
I like the slight margin of error a bit more bullet gives me if I miss the range buy 60yds, poor light doesn't let me see the exact presentation of the animal, thicker cover, etc. I will let the other experts hunt w/ the little .243, I'll stay w/ my .280.

Magnum61: You are the poster that mentioned the all encompassing phrase "Big Game Hunting" in your post regarding the 243 Winchester.
I wanted to correct any possible misconception you might be struggling under. I do not recommend the 243 for Moose or Elk!
Did you understand that this time?
Perhaps you just mis-spoke (mis-posted) when you mentioned the all encompassing term "Big Game Hunting" and the 243 Winchester.
You may call my posting a rant there Magnum61 but I stand behind it 100% with first hand experiences and observations - backed up by the many decades long now track record of the 243 Winchester.
And frankly I do not believe a word of your contention regarding "the 85 gr. cup bullets and the 100 gr. Nosler Partitions" "not even coming close to satisfying you"!
AGAIN Magnum61 - I know better!
I am not saying you are lying - although that is a distinct possibility!
Again Magnum61 my extensive experiences and observations alone prove you wrong in this regard, let alone the legions of other happy 243 users that keep this round alive and so popular!
And this Magnum61, simply listen to yourself! You say (after autopsy?) you are not satisfied with the results! Well - you apparently are looking at a dead Deer aren't you! Results then would be - you killed the Deer! Jees man you are like a bouncing Bingo Ball!
I again flatly state that if you are using a 243 and shooting Deer size game with a proper bullet in the proper place (heart/lung area) you will have no trouble what so ever killing any Mule Deer or Whitetailed Deer that walks this earth! PERIOD! And further - the Deer or Antelope will die very quickly!
Improve your shooting or improve your choice of bullets there Magnum61, because it is rather difficult to screw up a Hunting opportunity on Deer and Antelope while using a 243 properly!
So, you NOW unabashedly and unequivocally deny that you think the 270 is the minimum to be used on Deer and Antelope!
See folks, I am making progress with this misguided person (in the form of the poster calling itself Magnum61)!!!
I was hoping you were not as stupid as you sounded!
And in that regard - man if you say stupid things then folks like me with more experience and more intelligence than you have are going to be tempted to point out your shortcomings and your lack of rational thought!
Don't ever say anything as stupid as you did in that post and you won't be publically embarrassed again.
Its your choice!
Magnum61, you blather on telling all that what is obvious and has been proven for at least 51 years now, IS not true and you have the tamarity to infer "I" am trying to pass off unsupported facts!
Well at the risk of boring more intelligent folks than you - I will repeat my contentions and ask specifically how you can prove otherwise!
The 243 Winchester kills Deer and Antelope easily and quickly!
It has done so for 51 years and will do so for probably 50 more years!
What "facts" do you have there Magnum61 that "PROVE" otherwise?
Any attempt you may set out upon to prove me wrong only would show your inherent stupidity!
The "FACTS" I profess have been "proven" by decades of Hunters doing exactly what I state they have - and can and will do with the 243 in the future?
NO ONE is undergunned with a 243 while Hunting Deer and Antelope - that's just a fact that you small minority (VERY SMALL!) of the Hunting public HAS to live with.
You have got yourself out on a limb there Magnum61 - and I choose to not let you climb down!
You are going to continue to fall flat on your face - thats of your own doing!
Your foolhardy (unwise, audacious!) contention that the 243 Winchester is not an excellent Deer and Antelope cartridge speaks obvious volumes about your intelligence and Hunting experience!
Thats to bad for you!
Call my contentions rants if it makes you feel better, but it does not change your status as a fool!
I won't "spit in your face" like you intimate there in your posting Magnum61 - but I will not back away from telling you that you are being foolish and stupid WHEN you are being foolish and stupid!
I own quite a number of 243's there Magnum61 and I will enjoy all of them with or without your permission! Don't you worry your little punkin head about my happiness!
You have enough problems of your own to worry about!
In fact if you want to really "entertain sportsmen" like you mentioned in your latest error filled posting then try to get a handle on the misinformation you are burping up! Many sportsmen like myself would rather converse about true matters and would rather skip over your "fiction"!
Long live the wonderful, proven and lethal 243 Winchester!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy