Looking to buy a new deer rifles for this coming season early to become proficient with it and be able to spend time working up a tight shooting load so I'm not in a rush come deer season. I already made my choice of caliber and it will be 270 WSM. This leaves me only to choices of rifles, the M70 or the Browning. The browning apeals to me more because it's about a pound lighter and if it's a short action I want it light. An old timer at the gun club told me to definitely get the M70, and that means a lot to me because this guy has "been there done that." The gun will be stainless synthetic, any opinions??

M70-
Best trigger in the business, claw extractor, better safety. Take a look at the Classic Featherweight, good looking and shooting rifle. That said, the Browning or Sako are both fine rifles.

Does the featherweight come with a synthetic stock? It doesn't appear to one their site.

M70 Classic SS, then bed her in a High Tech Specialties stock. Sell the take-off tupperware on the net for $50.00 MtnHtr

HI

Easy pick to do. In my opinion threr are only one alternative...I hate browning rifles because of their poor function. The winchester will be the best of the two.

/ JOHAN

I like the Browning, but, whatever you do, do NOT get the BOSS. They count the BOSS as part of the barrel length, and you'll end up with a "velocity challenged" rifle.

Ditto Denton - Winchester is a crap shoot these days, in every sense.

From my experience with Classic (pseudo-CRF) M-70's, I'd suggest the Browning.

Winchester has a huge quality control problem lately. I'd suggest visiting some M-70 threads and see how many people were happy with the recent product. I haven't heard of anyone who owns a Browning not liking the gun. I like mine a lot (got it without the BOSS and couldn't be happier with that decision).

The 3-lug bolt on the Browning gives you more room so you're not whacking the scope every time you cycle the action. Of course, you sacrifice something called "primary extraction", but what in the world do you need that for? If the chamber is cut correctly and you're not way too high on powder charge, you don't have sticky extraction problems anyway.

Just a few thoughts from a dissatisfied Winchester customer.

Good luck. Buy the Browning.

H. C.

[ 06-01-2002, 02:24: Message edited by: HenryC470 ]

Well, this topic always brings out both sides... all I have are stainless Model 70's so there's my bias right up front.The fit and finish of the Model 70's over the last year is excellent... any of them in 270 WSM will generally be top notch... you couldn't give me a Browning A-Bolt, except as a piece of trade material for a WIn 70! Do a "search" funtion on the A-Bolt... it will turn up some enlightening discussion of the various poor features of the A-Bolt design. Besides, the idea of carrying a rifle on the elk-hill with "Made In Japan" stamped on the barrel leaves me cold!

BA

Thanks for the input guys. I went to the local shop today and sitting in the racks was a M70 SS in 270 WSM. Guess what I then proceeded to do?? Yes, I bought it, the rifle was beautiful, the only thing I didn't really like was the stock (it just looked cheap). I think I'll mount her with a 3-10 leupold in leupold rings and base, and then bed it to a nice stock. The Mcmillan featherweight looks nice, when I looked at the price I almost fell over though. They want 550 for the rifle in the stock completetly bedded and everything. Is it worth it? Thanks for helping me make up my mind.

Well I like em both! So let you conscious be your guide. I have a Browning bar in a 270, great for deer and very accurate. I also have a 300 winny in a model 70, 3 position safety and control feed action, it's simply a grand rifle.

I ordered a new M70 Classic Stainless 7mm WSM. The best price I could get around here from a store front dealer was $615 plus tax. The wholesale price is about $515 on that rifle.

There are none in circulation. No ammo and no dies. Someone said that sometimes the anticipation exceeds the realization.

I would not own a jap made gun.

Get the M-70 all the way. I have one in .300 Winnie that I love. It is a stainless/synthetic classic sporter. Gotta love the 3-position safety, claw extraction, and CRF, not to mention the hinged floorplate. It was made in the last few years and I see no "quality control" problems, but this is only my experience.

Don, many guns wearing the "Winchester" or "Browning" label are made in Japan. I own at least two: Browning 86 Carbine and Browning 92 in .44 Mag. ( Those are without safeties :-)))

Fit and finish are impeccable, I am very pleased, beats anything made at Winchester�s own plant.

Hermann

I have both also, both are also stainless.
My Browning Stainless Stalker beats my Winchester Stainless Classic hands down. The action is smoother, the fit and finish is much better and it'll shoot rings around the Model 70.
Mine happens to also have the BOSS and for my experience it works great.
Don't pay to much attention to the Browning bashers, most only repeat what they hear and don't have the experience with the actual product. Sort of the monkey say, monkey do thing.
The Japan statement has me LOL, he probably wrote that on a Japanese computer while watching a TV made in some Asian county, and his wife drives a Honda.

The A-Bolt will appeal to the guy who wants something that'll stand a solid chance of shooting tight groups straight out of the box, and won't cost an arm and a leg in the process.

The guy who understands controlled-feed actions and appreciates classic hunting rifles will pick the Model 70. I like classic, controlled-feed bolt-guns, I won't buy a Japanese firearm, and the Model 70 is my rifle of choice hands-down.

AD

damn a wsm. bullets cost too much, if you reload the dies are hard to get and without a 26" tube you aint got much more than a regular 270. besides good luck finding bullets if you get off somewhere and run out. get a tikka in 30-06 and enjoy hunting and shooting at its best. just bought their new lam. stnls. for under 600 bucks. the trigger is wonderful and the rifle is pretty accurate. shoots under an inch and the barrel is no where close to broken in. the tikka's are excellent rifles. they are made by sako and it doesnt get much better than that unless you can afford to have a jarrett or dakota built.

by the way, if you just gotta have a wsm, get the m 70. I had a browning a-bolt hunter last year.PIECE OF CRAP. A buddy of mine wanted it and i practically gave it away. will never own another a-bolt. The triggers suck and the best group i ever got was almost 2" at 100 yds. I have had better BB guns than that a-bolt. In case you were wondering, the wsm i had was the 300.

[ 06-29-2002, 10:41: Message edited by: sniper300M ]

This is like talking about your favorite pickup truck.

Personally I prefer the Browning. (The Winchester and Browning are owned by the same company I understand.) My bias against the Winchester comes from a lousy pump action shotgun I had thirty years ago. Go figure.

My gun is the A-Bolt Medallion in .300 WSM. It shoots like a dream and looks better than the Winchester.

Why all the interest in stainless? I'm a hunter. If stainless was good I would also wear stainless camo.

I am also a traditionalist. A "synthetic" stock is another word for plastic, fiberglass or polyester. I like a good piece of wood.

Who's builds custom rifles on Browning actions? Has this crossed anybody's mind and why?

I think this should answer the question.

Just my $.02.

Mike

I am a big fan of the Brownings. All of them that I have owned have been extremely accurate when you find the right factory ammo, or handload. I will say that they are a bit finicky until you find that load that they like. On top of accuracy the ergonomics of them are the best out there. The safety is in the right place, the 60 degree bolt throw makes cycling the bolt a bit faster if a follow up shot is required, and they come with a removable magazine (very convenient) standard where it is an option, if it's available at all, from other manufacturers.

As for them being made in Japan. I like to buy American made, American owned as much or more than the next guy, but take a look at the Brownings and the quality and design are pretty hard to ignore!

Just a thought here....if guns from Japan are so bad, should we also avoid OPTIKS made in Germany? I would think supporting the krauts would also be unfavorable along with those jap guns. I own a Honda and Toyota also, so I might need to take a look at those too.

There is no doubt in my mind what it would be, Model 70. There are 5 new M 70's among the local shooters in everything from the .223 to the 300 WSM. They are all shooter! Right out of the box. I have always been a M700 fan but five rifles that shot .5 MOA with good loads right out the box is too much to ignore. So I am looking for a Stealth chambered for the .308 Hell why not everyone needs three rifles chambered for the 308 don't they?

I'd go with the M-70 and it comes in a Featherweight...I reall like the pre 64 M-70 Win. and the pre war Brownings with the Mauser action...I would rather have a used pre 64 or pre war Browning than any of this junk they sell across the country....they used to know how to make rifles until the advent of the bean counter, just out of college and over educated and under smart.....then all the firearms companies started going into bankruptcy and they deserved it...make'em cheap and sell'em high. ticks me off.

Hey MOA;

Nice to be told what to do for 5 weeks after you've already done it huh?

RE the stock; I like synthetics, but I agree that all the basic factory synthetics (which are all plastic BTW) are basically crap. The going price for a restock job in a true (glass/kevlar) synthetic is about $475-550 no matter which professional you go with.

You might save some ching if you were to get a Boyd's laminate stock for about $125 or so, then have a real pro do the bedding job. You'd probably be into the finished stock for about $275-300 that way. I've seen a Boyd's JRS classic and it loked pretty good and was FAR stiffer than the factory plastic.

Two cents more.........JimF

I just got into this BB tonight and was really interested in this posting. I am puzzled by the criticism of A-Bolts and the BOSS system. I've had excellent experience with both.

I've had an A-bolt stainless stalker without a BOSS in 30'06 for @10 yrs. I bought it second hand. I've killed at least 30 deer with it. It's light, handy and shoots beautifully. Especially after I found it's favorite factory load. Hornady lt. Mag @180 gr. At Quantico a couple of years ago I shot several 4" groups with it at 300 yards. That works for me! I love the thing. The recoil with the Lt. Mag in such a light gun is my only objection. I'd like to have one with a BOSS in 243.

I usually hunt now with a stainless M. 70 in .270 with a BOSS. I also have one in 7mmMag. The .270 M.70 with the Boss tuned shoots one hole with Rem Express 130 gr. bullets at 100 yrds. Bambi has been impressed!

Orion, When I first read your post my original thought was, Yel Right. If that were true we would all carry NEF Handi-Rifles and drive Volkswagon Beatles But after giving it some thought I believe your post has merrit. Don't get me wrong I would suggest a M.70 over any rifle in its price range BUT to each his own. As long as the hunter makes an educated descision on what rifle, caliber, bullet suites there needs best then the rifle should go bang, the animal should go down, and as you said "The Rest Is Pure Bull Shit"!

After all this is the "Big Game Forum" and while all the posts concerning experience with different guns, calibers, scopes, bullets, stocks, etc. are informing and should not go away maybe we should spend a little time discussing actual hunting skills and techniques that work.

After all, the tools you use is Hunting 101. Getting in position to use those tools time after time is the real chalenge.

I have been in Helena and just returned. Only to see the A-Bolt bashers are at it again.

I have an A-Bolt and like it very much. It is accurate, light and durable. I also like the short bolt throw and clever detachable magazine.

I will admit as to being a browning fan and owning many both japanese and belgian. My japanese guns are built to the same Browning standard as the belgian. I do not have any problems buying a japanese product if it is of good quality. I always try to buy US first, I own a tahoe and bronco.

As for the gunsmithing issue. Most A-Bolts are very good out of the box and don't usually need much gunsmithing. Even the plastic stock is better than most of the competition.

Ditto Heavy Varmint!
I've keep statistics in my PC for my last 56 whitetail kills over the last 20 yrs. Loc, wind direction, weather, range, deer behavior, bullet performance, details of tracking when necessary etc. etc. Statistics will sure makes some things clear that are way more important than one's choice of pickup - Win vs. Browning (By the way they're both part of Giat a French company) or the cammo pattern one chooses et nauseum.
Some bottom lines: 2 hd shots 1 neck shot
vs. 53 chest shots. 4 deer killed downwind 2 of which were bucks killed the same day crazy in rut vs. 52 killed crosswind or upwind. Kills double when I got serious about my scent and doubled again when I started hunting from a tree stand. I was once upon a time satisfied with 20 or less practice shots just before the season. Now I shoot hundreds of rounds all year. That's the real stuff.

Oh another stat. I forgot that's maybe the most important of all- number of falls from climbing tree stand 0 vs. 2 falls coming out of the ladder stand when you can't wear a belt.

All of this stuff is personal preference and some of it becomes religion but here's mine:
I think traditional wooden stocks are silly if you hunt in the rain. Something I do a lot. The all wood tradionalist should sight in their gun dry at a hundred yards sit in the pouring rain for a couple of days and then sight it in again. I once saw my group move 5 inches when I did. That's 5 inches at one hundred yards. I haven't had a wooden stock since. My last blued gun was a parkerized Win 70. I twice found a film of rust in the bore after a single long rainy day in field - 0300 - 2230. I hunt where I can kill 2 a day. If I kill one at 0600 I don't want to have to go somewhere and anoint it with oil I can smell at 10 yrds and then return to the field to hunt. Stainless steel doesn't need as much Sheath or other stinky stuff to avoid rust. All my guns but two are now stainless. In 20+ years of hunting the number of misfeeds while hunting with a Model 70 - two ( I didn't get the bolt all the way back) vs. number of misfeeds with my A-Bolt - one (I didn't get the bolt all the way back) Moral - Too soon we get old to late we get smart.

Changed hands again! Wow.

Just look what you have done MOA! Are you beginning to suspect its "pay your money and take your chances"? The fact is both companies make a pretty darn good rifle. If you can arrange to shoot both it would probably help you make a decision. One may end up just fitting you better than the other. That said, the model 70 works better for me but I only own and shoot the Super Grades and they take some tuning. The Browning will probably come out of the box shooting a little better. You can get a great rifle or a dog either way. Good luck and good shooting!

To tell you the truth, I'm getting kinda sick of my Browning A-bolt.

It's only the beginning of the season and I have had the rounds jam up trying to load the magazine a couple of times. The floor plate rattles constantly. I can make it go away by tightning up the screws real hard but then it won't open and accuracy goes to hell.

Next season might see me using a Tikka for my deer rifle.

Buy this:

and really piss off the purists.

While M.70's are in the conversation I gotta tell ya I got to a 200 yrd public range yesterday with both my BOSS equipped stainless M. 70 sporters.

7mm Mag shot one inch groups at 200 yrds with Federal 175 gr.

.270 shot one hole at 100 yrd.s with Rem Express 130's....Oh yeah I almost forgot, I shot one flier almost 1/2 out of the hole. Horrors!

Yes, a BOSS can take time and ammo to tune, but it seems worth it to me.

I have had nothing but good success with all the Model 70's that I've bought in the past and present. None of them have ever had a problem or a flaw, and some of them have been tested in weather conditions that most will never be able to put their rifles through. I know it sounds biased, but no need to fix something that ain't broke.