Reed:

You've made your point clear that you feel there are better things to stand up for than some OTHER person about to get ripped off. That's your path -that's fine. But don't look around for help when you or your loved ones are the people being ripped-off!

Buliwyf

It doesn't have to be in a gun shop. It happens on car lots, house sales, auctions. I work in a gun shop and there have been times when I thought our offers were low and others too high. It can balance out. On the other side of the counter is the guy who brings in the rusty gun with a cheap scope on it and thinks it's worth twice what it is. The gun shop is responsible for making a gun "right" if something is wrong with it. That's something that has to be considered in a trade. A person to person sale doesn't have that obligation. Just another thought.

Bob257

isnt a guy getting $50 for his $400 colt from the gun dealer just like a guy going into the little old ladies garage and buying her dead sons old 65 corvette for $1000 because she thinks since its old and she bought her 1990 chevy for $2000!!!! In that story everyone is happy for the guy who got the great FIND.....I have always wondered why a dealer has to make 50% on the things he sells, so I and not always on the dealers side, but if he gives $200 for a gun that he hopes to sell for $400...I dont see aproblem with that....it may take him a years to double his money....he would have been better of using the 200 to buy ammo that he can turn over 10 times through the course of the year.... and I agree the books are a joke...I bought several of those books and the NEVER even came close to what guns were going for in THE GUNLIST...whcih is a good snapshot of the value of a gun.. if any of you guys go to a tag sale or yard sale and see a pre 64 winchester model 70 in excellent shape for sale for $100...most would buy it, and say they got a good deal......Bob

The Bible says not to put a stumbling-block before the blind.

It doesn't say you have to let the blind guy stumble because the store-owner put it there.

Savage99
Question-The assualt rifle was obviously Pre-Ban.
So from what you said, the Gunshop was right in what he told the guy- law say's Pre-bans I do believe can not be resold. And that dealer could not take posseion with out notifing the ATF NFA Branch. And if it was illegally owned to begin with he could not take possession of the weapon either. Now uless he one of those crooked gun shops that like to sell guns like that to criminals?
http://www.atf.gov/pub/nfab/index.htm

Big Stick,
This country needs more people like you.
I want to say thank you.

This country would be much better if we had more folks like Stick,Ted Nugent and Rush Limbaugh.

Brian.

Buliwyf,

Can you read English? I asked you to show where I had advocated doing nothing. Because it was impossible to do this I expected nothing from you. Much to my surprise you're still here saying that crap. Why would you do that?

I ask again, show me where I advocated doing nothing? What is up with you?

FWIW, I believe in looking out for number 1 and I don't NEED your help. If it were me and I was about to enter into a transaction involving something of value for which I was ignorant, I would take the steps to remove my ignorance. That's called looking out for number 1.

I ask again, if you're going to continue painting me in this light, show me where I said anything to justify your comments on me? When you discover that you can't in fact do that please do me the favor of bowing out like a gentleman and stopping this inane chatter.

Sorry to all others for my vitriol.

Reed

Gunnut45,

Pre bans are going for a premium here in Utah, we can buy and sell allmost anything. No registration other than the fed form when you buy from a dealer. Private sales are no problem.
What other country in free America are you from. Little hummor..........

Any dealer that takes advantage when asked for market value should lose his licence. If a customer sets a low ball price that is different but to give a false market value up front is not right.

Reed:

You made your point crystal clear. You look out for yourself period.

Buliwyf

My brother is a gunsmith and works for a large shop (authorized sercive center for many brands.) The older guy that owns it is always gouging folks who don't know any better. For example, a mint 1903 Colt Pocket .32 for $65. That kind of thing. And he also refuses to allow any of his employees to buy guns from customers - he considers that stealing from the shop, even if he decides he doesn't want the gun! This shop gets a lot of traffic - it is the first in the phone book and in this state, all transfers (including private party sales) are supposed to go through a dealer - no such thing as cash and carry.

BigStik:

I usually open my mouth too, but I'm very tactiful about now it if I can be. When I was young (19)and knew everything, I was banned from the only gunshop withing reasonable distance from my house for just that for about a year. At the time the guy told me that I was free to do whatever I wanted, and approach any of his clients, after they lefthis shop. He was really pissed at me but we became good friends in later years and he passed some really good deals on to me. So for what it was worth....

As far as asshole clerks go, I totally agree with you. There are several gunshops in my area where I won't buy squat because I don't like the owner or one of his clerks either because they are arrogant, bullshitters, theives, or just plain old douchebags.

[ 03-04-2003, 01:46: Message edited by: Pa.Frank ]

Having managed one of Alaska's larger gun shops/sporting goods store at one time, something that is very hard for a prospective gun seller to do, is to put himself on the other side of the counter, ie, in the shoes of the owner. Although the gun you are trying to sell has a value to it, either intrinsic or sentimental, you do not really look at it as COSTING you money while you own it, as it has probably been long payed for. Kind of like the gold wedding band on your finger - the gold has an intrinsic value, but you don't see it as COSTING you money while you wear it ( ah, maybe the wedding ring is not such a good example ) Anyway, as soon as the store owner hands you the cash for your gun and puts it in his used gun rack, the clock starts and every day it sits there, its costing him money. Remember, just because you as a collector have almost as many guns in your safe as the store owner, this doesn't make him a fellow COLLECTOR! He's in the business to make money to feed his kids, make house payments, etc. just like you have to do.

Another point. Gun dealers must have a very good idea of who their audience is or they won't stay in business long. In the store I managed, 98% of our guns were sold to local hunters who were hunting local game. There was no way, I could give, say $2000 for an original Win. 52B (95%)even though supposidly I could tack on 20 or 25 percent and sell it within accepatable pricing parameters. The reason being, we have very little small game hunting (that you would use a .22 for) in this part of the state. That gun could have set there for years as the clock ticked on costing the owner money. This is a situation, the store owner can easily explain to the seller.

Point 3. Books like the "Blue Book of Gun Values", are not always correct - sometimes high, sometimes low, but they are useful as a STARTING point. The latest edition is setting here on my desk. It is 2 in. thick and has over 1500 pages of guns listed in fairly small print. Lets face it, not even some of the hotshot gun traders on this forum are going to know what the value is of a "1936 Belgium made Super Stump Blower" without looking it up somewhere! And nooooo, the average store owner doesn't have time to log on to ebay to see if he can find one, and what it is going for.

When I was in the business, my tactic was this: First (as Dr. Duc suggested), I'd tell the owner that it was his gun and ask him what he wanted for it. If he was in the dark about it's value, and I was familiar with the make of gun I'd tell him what I would give him for it, and what price tag he could expect to see hanging on it when it was in my rack. I'd offer between 60 and 80 percent of what I thought I could re-sell it for. More money to him if it was a quick mover, - less money if I knew it was going to set on the rack for long. If I wasn't familiar with the gun, we (both of us - no secrets!) would look it up in the "Blue Book" and take it from there using the same principals of pricing I just mentioned. I would ALWAYS tell him, that there was no question that if he advertised it himself in the local "rag" or on the SafeWay Store bulletin board, he would get more for it.

Finally, a little food for thought: Our store's inventory in dollars ran approx. 2/3 invested in firearms and 1/3 invested in fishing tackle, camping gear, etc. At the end of the year, the profits always showed 2/3 coming from the fishing/camping gear, and 1/3 from the guns! Making a living selling guns in a non-corporate single owner store, is a tough business boys and girls!

We have a shiester gun dealer here in town who ripped an elderly aunt of a good friend of mine a new one.He gave her $400 for roughly $5,000 in guns that belonged to her late husband.

When she told family members what she'd been paid,the family took him to small claims court and got $5,000 out of him.

So yes,if you rip someone off royaly,it can come back to bite you.

Brian.

Bullwiff, does 2+2=5 where you are? I asked you to show me where I said not to help and you continue to spew crap I didn't say. Let me know when you can defend what you're saying.

KMAMF!

Reed

Reed:

The next time you witness an uninformed person being a victim in a gunshop hopefully you will be as verbose about it has you are here.

Buliwyf

While I was walking around a gun show several years ago I happened by a table where a so-called "dealer" was trying to sell A young kid (who was attending a gun show for the first time) a Vivitar 35mm camera lens. Being a photographer for the last 30+ years It caught my ear. He was trying to sell it as a night vision device that simply attached to the end of your rifle scope by using a adapter. Asking price was $350.00. I about came unglued on this piece of shit. I don't know what came over me, I'm not like that but he just "made my day". I still see this "dealer" at the gun shows & to this day he still will not look me in the face.

Doug,

I'll tell you what came over you. The idea of an advantaged person cheating a disadvantaged person was more than you would stand. These feelings exist in the soul of good and decent people that refuse to flee from evil. What you exibited is the root of what the world needs more of. Its members like yourself that make the NRA the great organization it is.

Buliwyf

Hey Bull Wit,

I'm still waiting. You're picking a fight over something I never said. Trust me, if I ran into the likes of you spewing lies I would certainly help the unfortunate victim of said lies.

I should have figured it out from your first message when you said "I'm not sure what the hell you're talking about?" as you clearly STILL don't know what the hell I'm talking about.

I'll just chalk this up to dealing with someone that without a doubt got U's (unsatisfactory) in "working and playing with others" in grade school. Go take your Ritalin and PLEASE answer my question if you choose to reply again. I've asked at least twice now, probably three times, so I won't ask again. (I can hear everybody else saying "Thank God."...I just don't like having words put into my mouth by some buffoon).

Reed

Reed:

Next time you go into one of your gun shops where the clerk is packing and "ready to go" don't worry about taking out your knife. Take out your tongue.

Employ your sarcastic personality when you witness some OTHER person being ripped-off. But then again, you have better things to stand up for, than some OTHER person being ripped-off.

Buliwyf

Truly a dull moron...I really need to learn to better suffer fools.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink...

I've tired of beating this dead horse.

I thought you might understand some trite expressions.

I'll let you have the last word for which you will surely take advantage.

In 1987 while staioned at MCAGCC 29 Palms, CA I went into a local gun shop that is no longer in business. They had a artillery model 9mm Luger that looked to be in very good condition. I believe it had a snail magazine and original leather holster. I don't remember if it also had the shoulder stock. A friend of mine who was a clerk there said that an elderly woman brought it in as her husband had died and she didn't want it. He said the owner gave her about $50.00 or so. I'm guessing it was a war trophy.

I too have seen and probably have been or gotten ripped off in a gun store. As of this time, as far as I am concerned, I will never do business in at least one gun shop around here, and never try to sell anything back to the other store here. Like many have said, a 20 to 25% markup ought to be enough for the honest gunshop. In Fenton there is a gun shop that routinely ripps off eldery people that don't know what they have. Like the old lady who brought in her just departed husband's collector series .45 autos. They gave her 100 each in unfired condition still in the presentation boxes. Sure she did not know the value, but the store worker did not try to inform her of what she had. Anyone whether eldery or not does not deserve to be ripped off by anyone. It happens all the time, and it is not likely to stop. But the uninformed will continue to get ripped off by unscrupulous dealers. Like othere, just quit doing business with them. They will fall by the wayside eventually. Then they can get stuk with the hundreds of guns that they now have to unload. Hopefully at a great loss, due to money problems.

I know a guy who owned a Colt SAA ( the original used by the us navy in the late 1800's ) I told him to take it to the gun show and see how much the dealers would give, him one man offerd him $6000.00 and I told him not to take it ( he thought I was crazy, but he listend ) I sent him to the Colt Factory Up north and they offerd him $27,000.00 for their firearms museum, and he took it. Just a good story and just goes to show how much scum is out there.

Reed:

When someone witnesses an unscrouplous gun shop taking advantage of an uninformed person and steps in to safeguard the helpless he or she is not picking a fight. The gun shop "picked the fight". You've made yourself very clear that you have better things to do than stand up for someone being clipped and that you take care of your own interests.

Your posts are unintelligent and contemptuous. All of the cliches you care to post will not mask the fact you are mouthy, no-load chicken shit.

Buliwyf

Hey Brian, which local shiester was that? I'd be postin' his name for ALL to see...lemmee guess, first letter last name, is it A, or could it be W? I don't know though, W ain't the brightest bulb in the box...

I posted a similar message about gunshow ripoffs on another forum, and was severely castigated, even threatened with bodily harm, for even thinking about interfering in another person's deal, even knowing that someone was getting severely ripped off. What prompted all this was seeing an elderly gent go up to a dealer at a gunshow with an antique shotgun. The dealer told him it was nearly worthless, and did him a "big favor" by offering him $30. The guy took the money, saying "my grandsons will never hunt". Not only did the guy get ripped off, but gave away a family heirloom.

Fritz,

You're on a better Forum now.

Buliwyf

Craigster,
His initials are BW.You know,the self claimed "gunsmith".

Brian.

A couple of summers ago I finally had my dollars in hand and went out to by my first rifle. I had decided on a Savage Scout in .308. I went to one shop and they wanted to special order it. I figured I'm screwed here as they wouldn't even quote the price unless I put a deposit down. I left. went to the other shop in the area that had a Scout in stock. MSRP=$525 Dealer=$595 He says so are you going to buy something or just look? I said well I am thinking about buying that Scout rifle but you are $70 over the MSRP and I don't think a Savage is a premium grade gade. he says he thinks his price is accurate, and I say check the web site. He does and knocks a few bucks off the MSRP to make me "happy". Wel I figured that I wasn't going to get a much bettter deal and he had it right there so I bought it.

Found out several months later that even after he said that it "must have been mislabled during inventory" that he had another Scout rifle in stock for $595! Caveat Emptor I guess, but I have done no more business with that store. All this after bad mouthing a larger store up the street that was going out of business for "supposed FFL violations". I think they just go tout of the business.

I applaud those of you who have protected unaware elderly folks that they were about to be screwed, you all should be proud.

O.K. heres a different track on the original thread. Was it the guy behind the counter or was it store policy? I spent two years as gun dept. manager in a well known midwest sporting goods chain store. My policy was to figure out fair market value subtract 15% and that was my standard gun buying offer. This however was not the company policy which was to pay as little as possible no matter what it took. After many warnings from the district manager to "get with" the company policy or get canned I finally told him where to stick his job!! So you see it is not allways the guy behind the counter.

I can easily side with the business side of things,but would(did) take a stance that brought more just info,into the equation.

Simply put,I could not/would not,watch someone receive a fucking at their expense,due to their being out of their element.

I'd wish someone would bestow me the same courtesy,in such a glaringly obvious situation,that happened to escape my knowledge at the time.

I've zero qualm severing ties with an outfit I don't see eye to eye with and have the W-2's to prove it(grin)................

Buliwyf and Reed. I looked at the antics on the second page and had to go back and look at the first to see what had transpired.

It became pretty clear very quickly. Reed said he would quietly tell the folks with the gun they were being ripped off. I can certainly see his position and also the fight that you can get into with a store owner. HE DID SAY HE WOULD TELL THEM. He said basically he would do it tactfully.

I do not know where Buliwyf comes from but he seems to enjoy making a mountiain out of a molehill.

Reed ignore him. You are a stand up guy. He lacks the ability to recognize when he screwed upa and apologize accordingly.

Now that we have all been educated and know how to rescue the aged and uninitiated from the evil and greedy gun dealer, CAN SOMEBODY TELL ME HOW TO GET A FAIR PRICE FOR MY USED VEHICLE WHEN I TRY TO TRADE IT IN??

Personally,just about every car dealer I have ever dealt with has been lower than pond scum and I hate haveing to deal with those pricks.

Customstox:

I read your attack on Allen Day. You are the person that had better start apologizing.

Buliwyf