what would make a good 400 yard moose rifle?
I am thinking of the 340 weatherby alaskan with a 3.5-10 leupold.

Dr J-I am for thinking it would be tough to do better!

Never shot a moose b4-however have shot more than a few elk past 400 with the 340. It worked just fine.

So have it and get on the hill.

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

what kind of accuracy can I expect from a 340 weatherby?

Perhaps the question is what kind of accuracy can a weatherby expect from you?

I have only killed one moose, and it was standing broadside at 165 paces before it died. But I have hunted moose for four seasons, and seen lots of them. I saw none, zero, nada, that if they were 400 yards away, would not have allowed for a sneak a crawl, or a walkup to shorter distances.

If a person is disabled and confined to a wheel chair, or a fourwheeler, as a friend of mine is, perhaps a 400 yarder is needed. Otherwise, a 300 win mag or equal will do everything. That is what my moose guiding friend carries, and he swears by it. I have seen him offhand beer cans at 100 yards, standing, and hit spent shot shells at half his shots.. Doubt he would shoot so well with too big a boomer....

Good thing about this forum, is you get lots of input and sometimes even your questions answered, usually by accident.

I think a 340 Weatherby is overkill for moose, but I am just a 9.3X74 type of wimp.

DR J- I have worked with quite a few 340's. All of them have been on either M70's or 700 Rem's.
Most all have had 4.5 weight Schneider barrels on em. Most all have been stocked in African Walnut (fiberglass).

All of them have shot well under an inch with no problem! My first tube would do under.75" for 5 shots day in and day out. To me this is one accurate round. IMO

I have also had these cut without the free-bore for what that is worth.

My "smiths" name is Dan Dowling of Palisades, Co. His nubmer is 970-434-0525, give him a call, he's a great fella. Call him M-F between 8 am and noon.

For me it would be beyond a doubt the way to go.

Now about overkill I am not about to get into that discussion. That whole concept just doesn't make any sense to me. I've used my 340's for tons of yotes and chucks,lopes,deer, elk, bear etc. They all died just fine-dead is dead to me.

Great round, am just amazed the world doesn't take to it more!?

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

A .340 would be about as good a choice as can be made. There are some other big guns people will recommend BUT, I think you should shoot the best performing gun you shoot well. Not knowing what your experience level is I would say practice with whatever you decide to use is of more value than a bigger gun. My "bigger gun" was a .338 WM and I can shoot it well.

A 340 is a fantastic moose rifle. In my opinion there is no such thing as overkill. Dead is dead. My faverite moose gun is the 378 weatherby. But there is such a thing as under kill.

I use the 300 ultramag for my moose and elk hunting.My longest shot so far has been on a bull 377 yards away(lasered)and the bull collapsed at the shot.I shot another bull at 310 yards(lasered)that took a step then fell over dead.These are the quickest kills I have seen on these big animals and I am convinced that the 300 ultra mag is as fine a moose and elk cartridge as is available.

how about a 30-06 and 200 yards of stalking

Only problem with Mark's 340 is it has a 25" barrel and it's not a 338 Win Mag with a 22" barrel! (Ork, Ork)

Brad

Merkelmeister,

How can you even begin to compare the 9.3X74R with a 340 Weatherby. To do so shows great ignorance. The 9.3X74R is a deer and boar cartridge. It says so right in "Cartridges of the World". This guy is going after Moose, which if you haven't noticed are a bit bigger than you average red stag!

The 340 is an excellent high performance modern magnum. I would recommend the 338 Lapua if you want a 33 bore, but hte Weatherby will work fine. At those ranges bullet design becomes a little less critical as impact energies are more inline with what a nonpartitioned bullet can withstand. That said I would use a Swift A-Frame or Nosler Partition since you never know at what range Mr. Bullwinkle will appear.

Todd E

I would always recommend a 300WM over the 340 or any of the bigger bores!! Most people could never shoot anything bigger than the 300wm comfortably enough to HIT what there shooting at. I know a lot of you will deny this but most people on this board probably shoot enough to be comfortable with Big Bores. I shoot a LOT & I'm not!!

Dr John,

I you're gonna shoot a moose at 400 plus yards you'd be hard pressed to find a better cartridge than the .340 Weatherby.

Keep in mind, though, the .340 is a damn hard kicker (the sharpest kicker I've ever shot), especially if it's in one of Roys crooked assed stock. Kinda hard to shoot accurately if you're the least bit recoil sensitive.

------------------
The older I get the better I was.

If you really want a 338 the 338 ultra mag is available in non weatherby rifles and ammunition is cheaper.

I'd be real happy with Mark's .340 or Brad's .338 Winchester. I'd also be happy with a using a .30-06 and stalking to within 200 yards, as was suggested by Rockhead - which is a heck of a solid point, by the way.

I'd also be very happy with my .300 Winchester for a 400 yard moose shot. I'd wait for him to turn broadside, then I'd place a 180 gr. Nosler Partition right behind his shoulder through the lungs. Moose are not that hard to kill if you can shoot and if you employ a good bullet. I don't belieeve that the specific caliber is all that critical.

AD

400 yards? Pointing the rifle out the RV's window?

All depends on where you hunt, I guess. My hunting partner killed a moose two years ago, and it was perhaps 20 paces away. He has shot moose out to about 150 yards. The first moose I ever shot (I was very inexperienced then) was 300 yards away, and downhill. Two 230-grain FS bullets hit too high above the lungs, and the third broke both legs dropping it. Now that I have learned "a little" I get closer, unless the moose is walking away from me.

What kind of scope do you plan to use with that 400-yard rifle? Will you hunt moose around bears? If so, you may want to set the scope to it's lowest power when you walk through the brush.

I have shot moose as close as 100 yards, but most around 200. The average moose shot is within 150 yards for most hunters around here. It would be the same way for me, but I watch a large field where moose congregate, and the center of the field is about 200 yards away.

The most popular cartridges in Alaska are the .30-06, .300WM, and .338WM, and far behind the rest of cartridges used in the Lower-48.

Dr John,
340 is fine if you don't mind the recoil and can place your shots. If you never shot one see if you can borrow one to shoot before you purchase. Ray gave you some good alternatives, ammo will be alot less as well as recoil. A 300win or 338Win will do fine out to 400yds. The 340 is no walk in the park on or off the bench. sure-shot

Good advise here. The 340 is a great round and would do what your asking of it and more.
I shot both before I decided on the .338winnie. The reasons are the same as already given. Price of ammo ,and relaoding supplies(brass) The added amount of reciol I felt wasn't worth what little I wound gain over the .338 in fps and down range energy.
It's up to you, but I would say the .338 will do just fine and not beat you up at the bench. I'm not to recoil sensitive but it was enough I thought the 338 was a better choice.
FWIW X-Ring

------------------
Sinner, saved by God's unfailing grace!

I have a friend who lives in Philomath, OR who hunted with George Palmer in Alaska (Alaska range, I believe) a number of years ago, he did indeed shoot a B&C moose at over 400 yards with a Ruger M-77 .338 Win.Mag. loaded with 225 gr. Hornady bullets. He shot this bull something like three times behind the shoulder, and after a bit of standing around, the moose tipped over. This is one of the finest moose specimens that I've ever seen. It looks like it came straight out of the Ice Age.

To answer the question, I'd use the scope I have on my current .300 Winchester - a 3.5-10X Leica. I shot a gemsbok in Namibia (I used a jacket over a rock on top of a cliff for a rest as well as a tight sling) at right at 400 yards last year. Gemsbok are smaller than moose........

AD

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Todd E:
[B]Merkelmeister,

How can you even begin to compare the 9.3X74R with a 340 Weatherby. To do so shows great ignorance. The 9.3X74R is a deer and boar cartridge. It says so right in "Cartridges of the World". This guy is going after Moose, which if you haven't noticed are a bit bigger than you average red stag!

And you, Todd E, are a blowhard. tomorrow, I shall no longer be ignorant, but I fear you will still be blowing smoke. Apology to Sir winston for that one.

In your retort, you make three false statements>

1. I did not and do not compare a 9.3X74R to a 340 Weatherbeater. I admit to being a 9.3X74R wimp. In response to the question seeking advice for a 400 yard moose rifle, I suggest a 300 win mag.

2. I recommend a 300 win mag for a 400 yard moose rifle over a 340 Weatherby because of my experience that people will shoot more wiht a 300, and will learn to shoot it well.

3. I recommend against a 400 yard cannon unless physical limitations make stalking impossible.. This is an opinion of mine. long range shooting is best for inanimate object like targets, or nooption species like antelope or sheep. The big old dumb moose is not a no-option stalking species.

As to being ignorant, I suggest you reread Cartridges of the World, or maybe mine is too old. HTe eigth edition, 1997, states that the 9.3X74R gained a good reputation in Africa against most game, including elephant. It is also stated as adequate for any north american big game.

Your reference to a quote of "deer and boar" either shows that my COTW is not like yours, or that you are blowing smoke where there is no sunlight.

but, all these aside, I do appreciate you pointing out that you like 340 weatherby. Have you used one on moose? have you shot one? I can state that I have done one of the two above, and because of that, I do not care to do the other.

Try a dozen range test shots in different postions, and then decide whether you want a 340 or a 338 or a 300. Or do like I did, and try a 9.3 and learn to stalk.

Todd E... do you and "cartridges of the world" go hunting oftan? I am curious because I actualy hunt with a 9.3X74R and my second moose was shot by this rifle, and while it is not much of a 400 yard cartridge, it will absolutly kill a moose. Ray has probably known a few that have shot cape buffalo with it.

Actually, I always go hunting with my copy of "Cartridges of the World" at my side. I was quoting it from memory though so the boar and deer thing may have been off a bit. I am sure though that there is a passage saying that the 9.3X74R is popular in Europe for boar and deer hunting.

Smallfry,
What kinda rifle have you got that is chambered in 9.3X74R? It is pretty obvious from reading between the lines what Merkelmeisters is (I assume a Merkel 140 or single shot stalker).

Merkelmeister,
I have not shot a 340 Weatherby Mag. I have shot a 300 Weatherby Mag. It could not be relied upon to dispatch elk at 619 yards (I remember the range correctly I could be off a few yards, but the shot was over 600). I have shot elk with a 416 Rigby and 338 Lapua at ranges to 650 yards. Most impressive. I assume the Weatherby will be the approximate equivalent of the Lapua.
What truly intrigues me is how upset you became because of a quote (or misquote) from some meaningless book! Relax it is only a book. What it says means nothing in the field. If I am going to stalk things I will just use a 22LR in a Browning Buckmaster! I just need to stalk to within about 30 feet.

Todd E

Everyone I have ever talked to about killing moose says "They aren't that hard to kill" use a 30-06 and put the shot into the boiler, wait 3 minutes and go clean out your moose.

Bull Elk on the other hand take more killing and that is just plain fact. I have heard and read reports of good hit bulls going a long way before giving up the ghost. A lot of these were shoulder shot elk, which according to most outfitters is a NO NO. I suppose that is why so many hunters after a couple of elk hunts, choose to get themselves a 338 mag. to allow for that spirited advisary.

OK, well first of all recoil doesn't really bother me..my main rifle at the moment is a custom built 458 win mag with a 26" barrel topped with a leupold 2-7x. as long as I do not have to worry about a scope between the eyes recoil is fine. shooting 20-30 rounds will make me sore but I have my limit. I was going to try to reload the 458 with 300gr barnes X (flat trajectory out to about 250 yards) but wanted a flatter shooter.

I have considered the 338 win mag in a Ruger M77. what is accuracy out of these? (anyone have one?) but trajectory is a little flatter. unless I can load it a little hotter than regular factory ammo. federal premium high power does it.

I plan on scoping it with a leupold 3.5-10 varX III.

moose hunting will be in northern Maine (if I get lucky to be drawn for the permit) terrain is very thick wooded areas. you could be within a moose by 20-30 yards and would not even know it is there. but we will stick to logging roads with clear cuts.
in the clear cuts I could easily take an 800+ yard shot but I do have my limitations. my practicing maximizes at 400 yards at our local range.

Norhtern Maine?

I didn't see that! 340 Wby? 338 Win Mag? I'd use a carbine in 308 Win/30-06 or 350 Rem Mag/35 Whelen.. as was pointed out, you can always get closer. To me, I'd never think of those rounds in the great state of Maine... they just seem, well, out of place! Guess I've got more tradition in me than I realize!

Seriously, this is all fun and games... use what YOU like... why not the 458 Win?

BA

Get closer? yeh I guess that is possible. but if I see a moose walk onto the logging road I would like to make sure it doesn't go any further if I can help it. do NOT want to scare it off into the thickets or cutdowns. then getting the animal out would be a nightmare. an animal weighing 800-1200lbs takes special equipment.

my 458 win with a 300gr barnesX would work wonders at 2700ft/s but I am having a problem getting accuracy with this small bullet. but if I can get it to perform....this will shoot as flat as a 338 win. but I would like to have a 340 or other flat shooter "just because".

by the way....has anyone ever tried the 180gr nosler Ballistic tip in the 340? accuracy?loads?

Todd... It is a R-1

Well...In that case, Dr. John, the following cartridges are ballistically closed to each other, and somewhere around 200 fps faster than the .338WM, but they have longer barrels, too.

.338 Lapua
.330 Dakota (a little faster that the.338WM)
.338 RUM
.340 Wby.
.338-378 (a little faster than most .33's).
.338 (8.59) Lazzeroni Titan (a little faster than most .33's).

Trajectories from factoy loads:

.338WM
250-grain Fed. HE at 2,800 fps = +1.8" at 100 yards, and -22.5" at 400 yards. With standard factory ammo, bullet drop should be a couple of inches more.

.33 Titan
A 250-grain La. bullet at 3,150 fps (+1.2" at 100 yards) should only drop to -16.2" at 400 yards

.340
.338RUM
Bullet drop (250-gr. at 2960 fps) should drop to about -20" at 400 yards.

.338-378
Is very capable of launching 250-grain bullets faster than 3,000 fps, and bullet drop should be comparable to the Titan.

[This message has been edited by Ray, Alaska (edited 04-14-2002).]

Dr John
My .338 Win. is a M77 first generation (tang safty not three pos)
I can't say enough about this rifle. It is a good shooter. Slightly over 1MOA at one hundred yards with Hornaday's 1.5 MOA @100yards with Barnes X's. I shoot 220 X's & 225 Hornaday interlocks. Same piont of impact. So I don't have to re zero when I change between the two. I also keep a X in the pipe and interlocks as back up round when hunting. But I seldom need a back up shot with the 338. It kills stuff dead!
Hope this helps you in some small way. Good luck on getting your tag
X-Ring

------------------
Sinner, saved by God's unfailing grace!

I am thinking that the 338-378 weatherby would be a better bet than the 340 weatherby. Moose are pretty tough, and at 400 yards, youll need any performance advantages you can get. And get a 4.5-14x40 leupold. Not much of an increase in the low range of magnafication, but a big increase in the high range magnafication.

I would have said the .338-378 WBYM, but yall beat me too it. I am planning on getting one in an Accumark for elk.

------------------
"Hey, I wanna turn in Billy, man. He sold me the s**t that wouldn't get a fly high!"

I'll be taking a Ruger M77 .338 with a Leupold 3x9 to Quebec for moose this fall. Will report this summer as I work up a load, planning on 250 gr. Nosler partitions.

I have considered the 338 win mag in a Ruger M77. what is accuracy out of these? (anyone have one?) but trajectory is a little flatter. unless I can load it a little hotter than regular factory ammo. federal premium high power does it.

I plan on scoping it with a leupold 3.5-10 varX III.

moose hunting will be in northern Maine (if I get lucky to be drawn for the permit) terrain is very thick wooded areas. you could be within a moose by 20-30 yards and would not even know it is there. but we will stick to logging roads with clear cuts.
in the clear cuts I could easily take an 800+ yard shot but I do have my limitations. my practicing maximizes at 400 yards at our local range.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Smallfry,

What kind of loads are you using in that 9.3X74R chambered Ruger No1? With that strong action you could easily beat the 338 Win Mag in the energy department. Heck you should be able to get an honsest 2500 -2550 fps with a 320 grain Woodleigh. Should be no problem getting 2750 fps with a 250 grainer.

With that performance you ain't got a 9.3X74R as God intended it no more. You have a weapon that at reasonable ranges walks all over the 33 bores mentioned on this thread. The reason being that you are essentially shooting a 375 H&H!

Todd E

Todd E... When I shot my moose I was useing norma factory ammunition and had no complaints, nor did the moose. I now load my own with norma brass, though I have used RWS. I have shot the swift A frame, but not at any game. I mostly shoot wdly, and bullets from Hawk labs. I shoot 56 grains of IMR 4850 and this basicaly duplicates published velocities. I do not oftan load any of my cartridges up to be something else.
take care

Samllfry,

Loading the case up to higher velocity is not loading it to something else! The 9.3X74R is loaded to no existing SAAMI specifications so I do not know what the factory load pressure is. This cartridge has been historically a double barrel number so it has been loaded light. In factory form it essentially duplicates 9.3X63 Mauser ballistics, but at pressures suitable for a double rifle.

In my double I load it with 63.5 grains of IMR 4350. No problems with that load. I basically manage to duplicate Norma factory ballistics, which are better published numbers than RWS. I assume you meant IMR 4350 by the way instead of a nonexistent IMR4850.

I was only pointing out that with your Ruger No1 you could get more from this cartridge.

Todd E

Todd E... Thanks for the correction, I didnt catch the 4850.
You make some interesting statements regarding the 9.3X74R. Lets start from the beginning.
1)How can you even begin to compare the 9.3X74R with a 340 Weatherby. To do so
shows great ignorance. The 9.3X74R is a deer and boar cartridge. It says so right in
"Cartridges of the World". This guy is going after Moose, which if you haven't noticed
are a bit bigger than you average red stag!
2)Heck you should be able to get an honsest 2500 -2550 fps with a 320 grain Woodleigh. Should be no problem getting 2750 fps with a 250 grainer. With that performance you ain't got a 9.3X74R as God intended it no more. You have a weapon that at reasonable ranges walks all over the 33 bores mentioned on this thread. The reason being that you are essentially shooting a 375 H&H!
3)Loading the case up to higher velocity is not loading it to something else! The 9.3X74R
is loaded to no existing SAAMI specifications so I do not know what the factory load pressure is. This cartridge has been historically a double barrel number so it has been loaded light. In factory form it essentially duplicates 9.3X63 Mauser ballistics, but at pressures suitable for a double rifle.In my double I load it with 63.5 grains of IMR 4350. No problems with that load. I basically manage to duplicate Norma factory ballistics, which are better published numbers than RWS.

There seems to be alot of contradictions to what you are saying. Such as... That you cant even compare a 9.3X74R to a 340, yet when loading up a 9.3 you stated that you have a cartridge that walks all over any 33 bores mentioned on this thread at reasoniable range.
Secondly you had said that when loaded up... the 9.3 you "aint got a 9.3X74R as god intended no more" which was kinda my point (without the god part) as to why I generaly dont load up cartridges yet you said that "Loading the case up to higher velocity is not loading it to something else!" am I missing something?
Now the clincher to the whole hunting story is that you now claim you own one... which if you actualy do... you must not hunt big game very much with it... or not at all. Or you are not very observant. I do believe that virtually every night you and your copy of "cartridges of the world" go on little hunting adventures before bed time, which would explain alot of your posts.
Take care

Fred Bouwman: I use a Ruger M-77 MK-II (stainless steel), and it seems to have a fast barrel. When I use Hodgdon's #26 reloading data for 250-grain bullets, before I approach maximum, 250-grain Nosler Partition bullets are already traveling past 2,700 fps. So what I usually do is to stop somewhere below maximum powder charge when the handload is accurate enough for my type of hunting.

I think my rifle is accurate enough, because I usually hit moose exactly where I aim from a rest (tree branch, or a made-up rest from branches). At the range from a cold barrel, I can get two 230-grain FS bullets to print within 1/2" at 100 yards, but what I try to do instead of trying too hard for extra accuracy, is to aim as fast as possible and to fire two or three shots from the bench. If two or three shots from a clean and cold barrel strike somewhere around 2" at 100 yards, my rifle is ready for moose and bear hunting.

Smallfry,

The 9.3X74R as God intended it ain't what you got big boy. You have a modern rifle suitable for 60,000 psi breech pressures.

The 9.3X74R was designed to provide the ballistic performance of a 9.3X63 Mauser which was loaded to around 54,000 psi. The 9.3X74R achieves these ballistics at about 36,000 psi.

Now are you following me so far. You can load up the 9.3X74 R (which has about the same case capacity as a 338 Win Mag) to achieve very close to 375 H&H factory loaded ballistics. This is because the 9.3X74R has a better expansion ratio than the 375 (not much though).

Still following me. Now you can load your 9.3X74R up to 50,000 psi and run with the 375 H&H simply because you have a Ruger No1. You have a larger bullet with more than ample power so you are better off than the 33 bores. You will have a 200 - 250 fps advantage over a double rifle safe load (36,000 psi).

I would not hesitate to use my 9.3x74R on moose. I reread my COTW and it says the 9.3X74R would work just fine on all NA game at short to moderate ranges. My 9.3X74R is a SXS double rifle however so I am just slightly short of a 375 Flange Magnum in ballistics. Therefore I am a bit short of a 340 Weatherby Mag, particularly at 400 yards!

Aren't you the college student that has all those custom big bore and double rifles in Nitro Express chamberings? If so I wish I had your money now let alone when I was a starving college student.

Todd E

Dr J- for what it is worth,I use a 3-10 Leo on my 340. If they had the 4-14 when I first started shooting the 340 I would of gone that way. But alas I am either too cheap/frugile or lazy to make the change.

I have shot the 180's they are in the guns I've worked with very accurate! 1/4" to 3/4" 3 shooters being the norm.

They would run 3300 in a 23" Schneider tube with no problem. I would have to look at my notes but I am quite sure I ran 3400 as well.

I used R22- that load was wonderful on chucks/p.dogs and yotes. Think we shot a lope or two with it also and it certainly will make the fur fly. Chucks really do acrobatics with em as well!! I especially love the Olga Korbit chucks-great back flips!

For a pure hunting load if I was considering the Noz BT I would really prefer the 200 over the 180. We've shot a fair number of der/elk and bears with em and they work just fine.

Good luck with your decision.

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

dog,
which weatherby rifle do you have in the 340? any interesting info? I am considering a weatherby alaskan in 340. I believe it is a nickle plated barrel. before I dive into this I would like to know if these weatherby rifles are capable of accurate shooting. (at least 1" @ 100 yards. some threads talk about a long freebore(?) which makes these rifles shoot ok but not great. just looking for feedback.