I am booked for a September moose/caribou/black bear hunt in Newfoundland. I am taking my M70 Stainless Classic .375 H&H with 270 TSXs for the moose and caribou (might be more than what is needed but I'm taking it anyway). I'll be sitting over baits for black bear in the late afternoon and early evenings. I haven't decided whether to take my .45-70 Guide Gun or M70 .300 H&H for the bear portion of the hunt. I have a load worked out for the .45-70 with 350 Hornady SPs.

I would like to work up a TSX load for the .300 and put it through its paces in Canada as it will be with me in Zambia in '08 along with my other .375 on a buff/hippo/croc hunt. I am thinking of using the .300 for croc and plains game. I'm torn between the 165gr, 180gr, and 200gr Triple Shocks and don't want to spend time and money working up multiple loads. Any ideas? .45-70 or 300 H&H for Canadian black bear? Which .30 caliber TSX bullet to do double duty in Canada and Africa? Also. any powder/load suggestions are appreciated.

You might want to rethink the 2 gun scenario. I believe you will get the "double whammy" of the tax(registration permit or whatever they call it) they have imposed for Americans to bring our guns up there.

I don't claim to be an expert, but I've used similar calibers on black bears. I'm assuming that the Newfoundland black bears are similar in size to the ones found in SE Alaska (up to 300-500 pounds in the Fall). I think either would do the job, but to be honest, I'd steer clear of the 350 gr. Hornadys. I shot a very large blackie on Prince of Wales Island a few years ago with my 450 Marlin Guide Gun (which I consider to be the equivalent of the 45-70). On a broadside shot through the ribs at 40 yards, the bullet broke up and only penetrated one lung. This bear had to be finished off after a very difficult tracking job. I actually had the same thing happen with a caribou shot with 180 gr. Hornady Interlocks out of a 300 Win Mag at 100 yards. Four broadside shots, none of which penetrated more than half way through the chest cavity. Needless to say, I don't use anything made by Hornady for big game anymore.

With any of the TSX's (I like the 168gr in the 30 cal) penetration is not going to be an issue. I've shot one bear (250 pound Minnesota bear) with the 300 Win Mag and the 168 gr. TSX. This was a quartering away shot over bait at around 30 yards. The bullet went in through the ribs, mashed the lungs and blew threw the off shoulder. The bear still ran for about 20 yards, but because of the exit wound there was plenty of blood for easy tracking. Given that you'll be hunting in the fall when the bears are going to be carrying a lot of fat, I'd chose the 300 over the 45-70 for better penetration. If you go with a hard cast bullet in the 45-70, then penetration shouldn't be a problem, but you'll still have a smaller exit wound.

That being said, I'd leave the 300 H&H and the guide gun at home and just stick with the 375 for all three animals.

Pete

I have killed several black bears.
I used a 300 Mag on spot and stalk hunts with excellent success. Also used my 450/400 double on one spot and stalk hunt. On bears over bait I have used a 9,3x74R [more than once] and a 308 single shot.

I would take two guns on your Canadan bear hunt.
When I hunted Canada I had the only 2 decient guns around.
I would lean toward the 45/70 over the 300 for bear over bait. I love the 300 but the 45/70 seems perfect for bruin up close. My brother killed hid blackie with a 45/70 with the Hornady 350 grainer, perfect performance. If you are worried about the Hornady use the the North Fork 350 gr.

I like either 180 or 200 grain bullets in the 300 Mags. I used 180 Nosler Partitions for several years.
On my last 2 elk I used 200 gr Trophy Bonded Bearclaws.

On my 2007 grizzly bear hunt I will take a 375 and 300 Blaser R 93. The 300 will be loaded with 200 TBBC.

Take the 300 and 375. If something happens to one of them the other could easily fill in.

quote:

Originally posted by bowhuntrrl:
You might want to rethink the 2 gun scenario. I believe you will get the "double whammy" of the tax(registration permit or whatever they call it) they have imposed for Americans to bring our guns up there.

No, this should not be a problem. You can enter as many rifles you'd like on the temporary Canadian firearms permit. I regularly have 2-3-4 rifles on my permits. The fee is for the permit as such, and does not depend on how many rifles are registered on the permit.
- mike

Since you are preparing your 300 for Africa you might as well give it the work out. And, as other have mentioned, it will do the work of your 375 should it need to fill in. As for bullet weight, 200 grains ought to do nicely whether in Canada or Africa.

Andy,

I'm not a big fan of that 350 Hornady either. I saw it make a mess of game on a couple of occasions. If the TSX shoots in your 300 the 165, 168 or 180 would be my chose. The 200 would probably only compromise your powder space. Any of the lighter TSX's will work fine on your black bear and be a perfect choice for brain shots on your hippo and croc.

Mark

Don't like what I'm hearing about the HDY 350, my experience with it is limited to whitetails here in Georgia (all shots have been pass throughs) so your input is appreciated. Was almost reluctant to admit on AR that I own and use a 45-70 after Carmelo, but it's damned handy in heavy cover and ladder stands here for deer. I just ordered a few boxes of 168gr TSXs from Midway (they're having a fathers' day sale so I saved a few bucks) so the .300 is going' with me. Sounds like they'll be hell on the hippo and croc as well.

If it was me, I would use the 375 for everthing.

If you want to bring a backup rifle, the 300 would be the most suitable/versatile for all the animals you will be hunting.

The 45-70 would be perfect for hunting bear over bait, but I have heard of and witnessed poor penetration from the 350 hdy bullets. I use 500gr hard cast bullets in mine when bear hunting.

Cheers,
Canuck

quote:

Was almost reluctant to admit on AR that I own and use a 45-70 after Carmelo...

Most of these AR 45-70 haters don't have a frickin clue.

quote:

Originally posted by bowhuntrrl:
You might want to rethink the 2 gun scenario. I believe you will get the "double whammy" of the tax(registration permit or whatever they call it) they have imposed for Americans to bring our guns up there.

I just hunted New Brunswick and Alberta and the $25 fee is for up to 3 long guns per person. The permit is good for 60 days.

quote:

45-70 or 300 Mag for Bear Opinions Wanted

Both will work fine. "Big and Slow" is the motto for several bear guides that utilize baits.

But since your question is specific to bears over bait, I would recommend the big bore.

The 45-70 is a good round when used appropriately. I think what most people here have a problem with is when someone tries to make it into something it is not.

I would use the 180 gr. TSX in the 300 and a heavy Barnes original bullet (450 gr. I think)for the 45/70. I went on the same hunt about 13 yrs. ago and shot a decent moose and a good caribou. I used the 180 gr. Hornady spire point and both shots went through (1 shoulder and 1 neck) of the moose@50 yds. with a muzzle vel. of 3120. The caribou was quartered @200 yds. and the bullet went about 2'. I have heard from some friends that also use the Hornady bullets and have complained that they don't hold together like they used to so perhaps they made an alloy change or something. I have since gone to Barnes 168 gr. XLC's myself and love them in 30-06 and 300mag.

Since black bear are soft and are not dangerous game, I would take the 45-70 with Speer 400 grain flat nose bullets as long as shots will be under 150 yards.

Otherwise the .375.

Because it is fun to use big bullets.

In the lower 48 one of the premier black bear over bait rounds is the little 35 Remington. Take the 45-70! I too would opt for heavy hardcast loads.

Youre over gunned with the 375 but it won't hurt anything. The .300 - 45-70 combo sounds like more fun. The 45-70 on bear sounds like fun. The .375 will just splat it.

45-70 loaded with Nosler 300gr pp bullets are a good choice.

Flip a coin. All will work well for what you are doing. If you are wanting to play with guns you haven't hunted much, 45-70 and 300 mag. If you just want to keep it simple 375 will do it all. Good hunting.

This sounds like a good problem to have. A great sounding hunt booked and too many good rifles to take. Have fun.

Had a change of mind.

I'm getting good accuracy with the Cast Performance 405gr heat treated gas checked flat nose with H322 in the guide gun, 50gr gives about 1,800 fps. I think that I will be taking it along for bear and my .375 for everything else. I am also getting good accuracy in the .300 H&H with the 168gr TSX over 69gr RL-19 but the guide gun is handier in a stand and in cover, is stainless, and 500 Grains is right it's just fun using BIG bullets.

I'll let everyone know how it turns out. We're hunting with Mitchell's Pond Outfitters the week of Sept 24th. Thanks for all the advice.

Andy

Andy
Good decision.
I like and have used a 300 and a 45/70 quite a bit. For black bear over bait I would prefer the 45/70 by a wide margin.

I have used the 350 Hornady on game [deer and pigs] in the 45/70, 458 and in my 450 No2 double at velocities from 1800 to 2330 fps with excellent results.

I just left Idaho on a Black Bear hunt, in 2 weeks we took 7 bears, one with the 45/70 with the 405 Remington bullet at about 1700 fps. Worked perfect.

good for you man run that 45-70 the us cav original sledgehammer

If it were me and I wanted to have a backup rifle, I would take two rifles capable of the longer shot (moose/caribou). The odds of dropping or falling with your gun and putting it out of commission are higher hunting the two ungulates.

So, I would opt for the .300 H&H and the .375 H&H. If I were to go with one, it would be the .375.

I have used the 45-70 on bear over bait and it works fine. However, I've also used the 376 Steyr (which is close to the .375 ballistically) on black bear and I liked it's performance better. I also own a .375 H&H and have taken a fair number of animals with it (not bear). The .375 is among my all-time favorites.

If you want to buy a new rifle (who doesn't?), My hunting buddy and I used .338 RUMs on black bear in B.C. about a year ago. Every bear dropped in its tracks. One of the bears squared an honest 7'6". He never took a step. I popped an average sow running full speed. She hit dirt upon impact and slid several feet. In my limited experience hunting black bear, I've never witnessed such devastating effect. Our gudies echoed that sentiment. We were using 250 gr. A-Frames.

I'd choose the .45-70 "just for fun". Especially with a hard cast 400gr. bullet or heavier, shots under 100 yards are going to be devastating. And I personally follow up faster with a lever gun than a bolt gun, and bears being what they are, sometimes the first shot just doesn't impress them much. At bait ranges, I'd go big and slow everytime.

But I have to give major credit to the .300H&H, just because it's so sexy. But it's wonderful versatility for hunting in Canada makes it a little less "fun".

Hornady must have changed something if they are comming apart as you say. I broke a shoulder of a big eland and it went on through the lungs, kudu and gemsbok broadside would exit, warthogs could be shot from quatering on and still exit, all with the 350 grn flatnose.

Mark, I haven't hunted Croc, but from every thing I have read isn"t the 300 a bit on the light side?

Stay with your first choice for all that game. The 375 H&H will do it all nicely. Beside Canada is not gun friendly and the fewer of my guns at risk the better is the way I view them.

Die Ou Jagter

As you are trying for a brain or CNS shot on a crodile a fairly light rifle with a good bullet will do the trick. The TSX in 30 caliber might be just perfect as it would not blow a big hole in the skin but would give more than sufficient penetration.

I persoanlly brained a 13'7" with a 338 and a 250 gr. TBBC and it messed up the top of his head pretty bad. I think the 300 with a TSX would have been more appropriate.

Mark

Mark

Hey Mark,

I think I found my hippo/croc load. Check out the target pic I posted in the reloading forum. I think it'll work.

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2511043/m/770108894

Tony; You know that the optimum black bear caliber is the 405 Winchester. You witnessed the effect. .411 diam. butttttt..............

If I had a 308W, 300WM, 30-06, 300 Sav, 30-30, 25-06........ I would feel confident.

Mighty joe
I shot a 405 Winchester 1895 yesterday. I like the rifle and the calibre.
Wish you and Adrianne could have been with me in bear camp the last 2 weeks of June, we had a great time.

A 300 H&H for hippo?