Here it is right from one of the articles you posted Tony:
"In layman’s terms, a straight-walled cartridge is a bullet casing with straight walls down to the projectile." I hope everyone understands that the belt is on the lower head part of the casing of the .458 WM that holds part of the powder.

Now if that along with the picture in the ODNR booklet doesn't rule out a belted cartridge like the .458 WM I don't know what does! In other words, this thread is now beating a dead horse to death!

I offered no opinion on whether the .458 is legal.

What I posted regarded the list that no longer exists either in the regulations or the actual state codes. I had saved the actual statutes prior to posting the game booklet regulations, knowing I might need them.

https://twitter.com/rc_outside...892222089326592?s=21

Here’s the regulation with photo stating that it is the shoulder on a cartridge that makes it illegal. Until now, I have never heard anyone question this, which also includes the 450 marlin.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Outdoor Writer:
I offered no opinion on whether the .458 is legal.

What I posted regarded the list that no longer exists either in the regulations or the actual state codes. I had saved the actual statutes prior to posting the game booklet regulations, knowing I might need them.

***Sorry Tony, as I didn't mean to infer you did, just that this is being beat to death and now I see one of the Buckeyes has come back again because even the pictures showing the bases of both cartridges are the same and have no belt can't figure the simple pictures out!

quote:

Originally posted by rcasto:
https://twitter.com/rc_outside...892222089326592?s=21

Here’s the regulation with photo stating that it is the shoulder on a cartridge that makes it illegal. Until now, I have never heard anyone question this, which also includes the 450 marlin.

The photo of the two doesn't "state" anything! It shows both cartridges have the same beltless base and the one on the right is legal because of no shoulder and no belt. For someone that obviously didn't even know the belt is at the bottom of a cartridge when you stated you asked the GW that question thinking the belt is near the top rim I can't believe you're still posting what you are!

Do you know what you are talking about at all? I never said any of that nor had a talk with a game warden.

My statement earlier was that the belt was no different than the rim.

Furthermore, Buckeyeshooter was told by a game warden that belted straight walls such as 450 Marlin and
458 WM were legal as they should be because the literal wording in the regulations say it is the necking down of a cartridge makes it illegal.

quote:

Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:

quote:

Originally posted by rcasto:
https://twitter.com/rc_outside...892222089326592?s=21

Here’s the regulation with photo stating that it is the shoulder on a cartridge that makes it illegal. Until now, I have never heard anyone question this, which also includes the 450 marlin.

The photo of the two doesn't "state" anything! It shows both cartridges have the same beltless base and the one on the right is legal because of no shoulder and no belt. For someone that obviously didn't even know the belt is at the bottom of a cartridge when you stated you asked the GW that question thinking the belt is near the top rim I can't believe you're still posting what you are!

Topgun, you are getting folks and facts confused. I never stated the belt was at the top. I stated my local guy said the belt was not an issue, the neck was and in HIS opinion it was the bottleneck case and not the belt that was important. Further, you seem to be getting me confused with another poster. If you want to argue, at least have your facts straight on who said what and more accurately what was said. For myself, I stated my piece and moved on.

Strange regs! The weirdest seems to be the three cartridge rule. What inspired that one?

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
Strange regs! The weirdest seems to be the three cartridge rule. What inspired that one?

Ann,

I believe that it's an attempt to get people to be more careful about how much they shoot by making them conscious of their magazine capacity. They may be thinking that if someone has a 10 round magazine they may just shoot at every sound/sight and you'd have bullets flying all over the place.

Still, that's weird. I've only ever needed one bullet to kill a deer.

Buckeyeshooter: "Topgun, you are getting folks and facts confused. I never stated the belt was at the top. I stated my local guy said the belt was not an issue, the neck was and in HIS opinion it was the bottleneck case and not the belt that was important. Further, you seem to be getting me confused with another poster. If you want to argue, at least have your facts straight on who said what and more accurately what was said. For myself, I stated my piece and moved on."

***Go back and read the bottom paragraph of one of your posts on page one because that's exactly what the one sentence implys! Here is the exact sentence right out of that post: "On a later followup, I gave the local game warden a call and asked specifically about a belt being part of the neck and making it an illegal round."

Yes! I did get the two of you confused regarding the statement on where the belt is and, therefore, I apologize to rcasto because the quote I was responding to was his! The facts appear to be that neither of you seemed to know the .458 WM was illegal in your own state. Furthermore, rcasto is still posting and doesn't have a clue even after pictures of what is legal were posted straight from the DNR website. I'm going to watch football today and am done with this deadend thread! Happy New Year everyone!

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
Still, that's weird. I've only ever needed one bullet to kill a deer.

Yep, and it is for safety reasons like our other member stated so people don't just up and start spraying rounds all over the place. Here in MI we have a six round limit unless you're hunting small game with a 22 rimfire. Happy New Year and congrats on your nice buck!

quote:

Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
Still, that's weird. I've only ever needed one bullet to kill a deer.

Yep, and it is for safety reasons like our other member stated so people don't just up and start spraying rounds all over the place. Here in MI we have a six round limit unless you're hunting small game with a 22 rimfire. Happy New Year and congrats on your nice buck!

Thank you, Topgun! Best buck ever for me so far.

BTW- I am a Michigander. Lapeer/Oakland Co area. Been an 'expat' since 2006. Miss the numbers of deer for sure but don't miss not being able to use a rifle for firearms season.

I am primarily an archery hunter but I always broke out my muzzleloader during firearms in Michigan. Never missed one so I don't get the need to fire multiple shots for a simple deer! I hear plenty of that now here in Missouri. Has me totally perplexed as I hear all kinds of sighting in happening in the 'neighborhood' the evening before firearms opens in these parts.

Pathetic!

Saeed,

Should be legal for .458WM or 458Lott cartridges. But, why settle for less than 100%, I agree. No sense in having some cocky wildlife official try to ruin my day.

There is some talk about it from May of 2017 where a few posters said or concurred that the newly passed law made it legal for any straight-walled cartridge to be used for deer, same caliber minimums and maximums as before. Before that. it had to be one specifically on their list.
As for stupid laws, Ohio used to be no rifles for deer period like some other states, so this is a step up.
I also found a common thread for all straight wall cartridges including the 458WM shooting 300 grain bullets, that being a maximum point blank range under 200 yards. Most if not all bottleneck ones had an MPBR of over 200 yards. Obviously, distance is the concern for ODNR.

quote:

Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:
Buckeyeshooter: "Topgun, you are getting folks and facts confused. I never stated the belt was at the top. I stated my local guy said the belt was not an issue, the neck was and in HIS opinion it was the bottleneck case and not the belt that was important. Further, you seem to be getting me confused with another poster. If you want to argue, at least have your facts straight on who said what and more accurately what was said. For myself, I stated my piece and moved on."

***Go back and read the bottom paragraph of one of your posts on page one because that's exactly what the one sentence implys! Here is the exact sentence right out of that post: "On a later followup, I gave the local game warden a call and asked specifically about a belt being part of the neck and making it an illegal round."

Yes! I did get the two of you confused regarding the statement on where the belt is and, therefore, I apologize to rcasto because the quote I was responding to was his! The facts appear to be that neither of you seemed to know the .458 WM was illegal in your own state. Furthermore, rcasto is still posting and doesn't have a clue even after pictures of what is legal were posted straight from the DNR website. I'm going to watch football today and am done with this deadend thread! Happy New Year everyone!

no worries enjoy the game.

quote:

Originally posted by custombolt:
Saeed,

Should be legal for .458WM or 458Lott cartridges.

The big bore guys can simply switch to the 500 NE.

I called the main DNR office in Columbus, dept of regulations, and they themselves told me that the belt does not matter. 450 Marlin and 458 Win Mag are legal because they have no shoulder. DNR's words, not mine. Probably should have just gone with the game warden who told Buckeye shooter that it was legal instead of listening to a busybody from Michigan.

quote:

Originally posted by rcasto:
I called the main DNR office in Columbus, dept of regulations, and they themselves told me that the belt does not matter. 450 Marlin and 458 Win Mag are legal because they have no shoulder. DNR's words, not mine. Probably should have just gone with the game warden who told Buckeye shooter that it was legal instead of listening to a busybody from Michigan.

I THOUGHT that MIGHT be so since the belt doesn't provide any velocity benefits and merely helps with head spacing. But I get tired of banging my noggin against really thick walls.

This is from DNR web site before they opened it up to all straight walled cartridges in 2017.
This is when they still had a specific list - Note the addition of the 450 Marlin. Oh gasp, it has a belt.


Ohio Wildlife Council Approves 2015-2016 Hunting Regulations

COLUMBUS, OH - A reduction in white-tailed deer bag limits and antlerless permit use during the 2015-2016 hunting seasons were among regulations approved by the Ohio Wildlife Council at its scheduled meeting on Wednesday, April 8, according to the Ohio Department of Natural Resources (ODNR). The council also voted to remove the peregrine falcon from Ohio’s list of threatened species.

The Ohio Wildlife Council voted to approve deer hunting proposals prepared by ODNR Division of Wildlife. Among the approved changes:
• Reduce bag limits in most counties, and remove antlerless permits in all but 10 counties. No county had a bag limit increase.
• Reduce the statewide bag limit of deer from nine to six.
• Suspend the antlerless-only muzzleloader weekend.
• Offer two additional days of deer-gun hunting, Dec. 28-29, 2015.
• Move muzzleloader season to Jan. 9-12, 2016.
• Move the start of fall turkey hunting to Oct 10, two days earlier than 2014.
• Add one straight-walled cartridge rifle, the .450 Marlin, to the existing list of legal hunting rifles during the deer-gun and youth deer-gun seasons.

Topgun:
Six shots to kill a deer ? Ohio State should give your football team at least 6 downs to make the game fair, and you would still lose. And yes, the 458wm is legal in Ohio. Stay up in MI, please.


Paul

quote:

Originally posted by rcasto:
I called the main DNR office in Columbus, dept of regulations, and they themselves told me that the belt does not matter. 450 Marlin and 458 Win Mag are legal because they have no shoulder. DNR's words, not mine. Probably should have just gone with the game warden who told Buckeye shooter that it was legal instead of listening to a busybody from Michigan.

Then if that's actually the case they should spell it right out on their website because a belted magnum sure as shit isn't a straight wall case and that's what the law says is legal. Funny that part of one of the articles Tony posted stated the DNR had held classes for their staff on what was legal and yet we have some Ohio members saying different GWs that were talked to differed on this. I'm also not a busybody, but rather was just trying to keep folks from getting a ticket for hunting with an illegal caliber the way the law reads and the picture that is posted with it. So much for that!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Paul K:
Topgun:
Six shots to kill a dear ? Ohio State should give your football team at least 6 downs to make the game fair, and you would still lose. And yes, the 458wm is legal in Ohio. Stay up in MI, please.


Paul

It's spelled deer Buckeye! Yep, I have to agree with you on the OSU team as they certainly blew us out as they did the Huskies the other night. The good thing is that the sleazebag coach they had is now gone for good! I also have no plans to come down to Ohio because it's people like you and a couple of the others here with their shitty comments that ruin it for the good folks that are down there!

Top gun, I earned the right to disparage the gov. and as an American citizen by birth I think Im allowed that, without your permission.

Add to that that a large part of my life was with Federal Law Enforcement from which I retired, I've seen it at its best and at its worse, the worse was by Politicians..

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Top gun, I earned the right to disparage the gov. and as an American citizen by birth I think Im allowed that, without your permission.

Add to that that a large part of my life was with Federal Law Enforcement from which I retired, I've seen it at its best and at its worse, the worse was by Politicians..

Get over it Man! I didn't say that you couldn't say what you did, nor did I say you needed my permission to say it. All I said was in my opinion your comments weren't necessary to the discussion. Very simple and it's too bad you got your panties in a wad over something so simple as that opinion of mine. So you were a civil servant for a large part of your life. Big deal!!! So was I for my entire career, after which I retired with 30+ years of service along with 3 years of active military service. Neither of our jobs, however, gives us any more right than Joe Blow from Kokomo from expressing an opinion on anything they feel like!

anybody notice the Ohio picture caption that says:
"Cartridge with Shoulder" Illegal?
Therefore anyone who infers Cartridge with No shoulder, a 458WM, might be legal has logical grounds enough to not be declared an idiot.

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:
anybody notice the Ohio picture caption that says:
"Cartridge with Shoulder" Illegal?
Therefore anyone who infers Cartridge with No shoulder, a 458WM, might be legal has logical grounds enough to not be declared an idiot.

A few years ago, before Ohio opened up the allowable cartridges to “any straight walled case”, they had a specific list of cartridges that included, by name, the 450 Marlin, a belted cartridge. This alone should be enough to prove to the Michigan busybody that it was the shoulder, not the belt, that made a cartridge not legal. I just don’t know how someone from another state can continually argue with people from Ohio about what is legal for them when he doesn’t even live here.

quote:

Originally posted by rcasto:

quote:

Originally posted by Fury01:
anybody notice the Ohio picture caption that says:
"Cartridge with Shoulder" Illegal?
Therefore anyone who infers Cartridge with No shoulder, a 458WM, might be legal has logical grounds enough to not be declared an idiot.

A few years ago, before Ohio opened up the allowable cartridges to “any straight walled case”, they had a specific list of cartridges that included, by name, the 450 Marlin, a belted cartridge. This alone should be enough to prove to the Michigan busybody that it was the shoulder, not the belt, that made a cartridge not legal. I just don’t know how someone from another state can continually argue with people from Ohio about what is legal for them when he doesn’t even live here.

For cripes sake man! Your lack of thought process is showing every time you make a post and there was absolutely no reason for you to bring this thread back up! Since when does a person have to live in a certain state like you keep stating to be able to have any input on what is being discussed be it right or wrong input? In your closed mind any time something is posted like this the only people that should be able to post are those that live in the state of the OP to be able to have any input, LOL! That's not the way it works Bro! If your logic was/is correct, why then wasn't the .458 WM on that list? In case you haven't noticed or maybe don't care and just want to keep beating a dead horse, there were several members from Ohio on this thread that also stated they thought the belted cartridges (.458 WM, etc.) were not legal in Ohio!

quote:

Originally posted by Paul K:
So much for trying to educate a man with the IQ of a small soap dish. Must be something in the MI. water.
Paul

Why do you buckeyes keep bringing back a dead horse and on top of that have to be jerks with shitty comments regarding anyone that isn't from Ohio?! After reading your shitty post I reread the posts by rcasto again and can't help but respond since you brought the thread up again. He claimed that the .450 Marlin was one of the calibers listed in the initial legal list on the ODNR site. I didn't even read the list since I figured he was at least smart enough to be able to read---NOT! Funny thing is that now that I actually went back myself and checked that list and the .450 Marlin belted cartridge isn't on it, which makes his comebacks to me based on that wrong. Here is that list C/Pd off the ODNR booklet for the 2014 season:

"These specific straight-walled cartridge rifles are legal for deer hunting: .357 Magnum, .357 Maximum, .38 Special, .375 Super Magnum, .375 Winchester, .38-55, .41 Long Colt, .41 Magnum, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .444 Marlin, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .45 Long Colt, .45 Winchester Magnum, .45 Smith & Wesson, .454 Casull, .460 Smith & Wesson, .45-70, .45-90, .45-110, .475 Linebaugh, .50-70, .50-90, .50-100, .50-110 and .500 Smith & Wesson."

The only thing gained from this entire thread is that Ohio needs to state in plain English that they are allowing those two belted magnums even though the picture in the latest ODNR booklet does not show the legal calibers as having a belt.

45-70 seems about perfect

quote:

"These specific straight-walled cartridge rifles are legal for deer hunting: .357 Magnum, .357 Maximum, .38 Special, .375 Super Magnum, .375 Winchester, .38-55, .41 Long Colt, .41 Magnum, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .444 Marlin, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .45 Long Colt, .45 Winchester Magnum, .45 Smith & Wesson, .454 Casull, .460 Smith & Wesson, .45-70, .45-90, .45-110, .475 Linebaugh, .50-70, .50-90, .50-100, .50-110 and .500 Smith & Wesson."

And the very next year in the rule book:

Add one straight-walled cartridge rifle, the .450 Marlin, to the existing list of legal hunting rifles during the deer-gun and youth deer-gun seasons

I posted this before and you seem to have ignored it. Also, the 458 Lott is legal as well.

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
45-70 seems about perfect

Yes, excellent round for the Ohio rules.

quote:

Originally posted by rcasto:

quote:

"These specific straight-walled cartridge rifles are legal for deer hunting: .357 Magnum, .357 Maximum, .38 Special, .375 Super Magnum, .375 Winchester, .38-55, .41 Long Colt, .41 Magnum, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .444 Marlin, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .45 Long Colt, .45 Winchester Magnum, .45 Smith & Wesson, .454 Casull, .460 Smith & Wesson, .45-70, .45-90, .45-110, .475 Linebaugh, .50-70, .50-90, .50-100, .50-110 and .500 Smith & Wesson."

And the very next year in the rule book:

Add one straight-walled cartridge rifle, the .450 Marlin, to the existing list of legal hunting rifles during the deer-gun and youth deer-gun seasons

I posted this before and you seem to have ignored it. Also, the 458 Lott is legal as well.

That is not what you stated in your initial post just like I mentioned. Your post tonight now proves I'm right in what I stated above and you even quoted it to boot showing that caliber isn't listed that first year like you said it was! Yes, you are now correct that it was a line item added the following year so thanks again for making another post that proves I'm right, LOL! Congrats on finally getting something right on this thread.