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Interesting how it did that to those animals. So I guess we can scratch TSX's for ruining capes, Fail Safes for not expanding, TBBC's for failing, Partitions for being inaccurate, Corelokts for being cheap. Whats left? I guess Northfork "Let me start off with two words: Made in America" | |||
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sarcasm, i hope? corelokts, powerpoints, etc. may be cheap, but for the najority of situations with the majority of rifles, they work fine. if you need a little more penetration, use a partition. if you need a little more expansion, use a BT. i suppose you could use an accubond/interbond, but "to me," it seems like a waste of money. | |||
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I have had great luck with Accubonds out of my 270's. | |||
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7mm Rem mag on a dik-dik at 55m   | |||
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I was just listing all of the stuff I have seen people write here on the AR Forums. I am still surprised they opened up like that on those animals "Let me start off with two words: Made in America" | |||
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jeff - "waste of money" was probably a poor choice of words on my part. cupid - i thought the point of TSX and other "tough" bullets was that they were constructed so as to not blow up like that on game at close range. might as well use a varmint bullet judging by the results here. bugle - i was surprised too, but pix don't lie. i was considering these bullets even though i don't "need" them with the relatively mild cartridges i use. after seeing that, i won't touch them with a 10-foot pole for hunting. | |||
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I killed an eland, zebra, warthog and gemsbok with them (.375) week before last. Nice neat hole going in and a slightly larger neat hole going out, except for a couple of the bullets that hit the eland, which were found up against the skin on the off side. Of course those were factory loads.... | |||
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They are designed to open up though (pretty quickly according to the manufacturer). A 30 cal bullet travelling with that sort of energy which opens up quickly is going to dump alot of energy into a ten pound deer. If a "lesser" bullet didn't do the same I'd be surprised. Unless it didn't expand at all and just penciled through. I'm not saying that x-bullets are great (I like the concept but I'm not sold on them) but you have to provide a valid test. I think the other examples might be a fairer test (maybe). | |||
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I think them pic's are set up or just not true. I have taken a lot of game with the TSX bullets and NEVER had that kind of damage. If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Member of the Delaware Destroyers Member Reeders Misfits NRA Life Member ENDOWMENT MEMBER NAHC Life Member DSA Life Member | |||
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7mm bullet rather, sorry. | |||
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Tasun, I'm curious about your own personal experience with this bullet? I and my pard have used the X/XLC/TSX on a bit of game, including whitetail, muledeer, bear, elk, and sheep, from 45 to 427yds and I'm sorry but those pictures are hard to believe. Chuck | |||
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chuck - i am curious that you are curious. please read my post above. as for whether you believe the pictures or not, that's your choice. i've known phil for a while now and my guess is that, being an outfitter/guide in africa, he has a rep to protect. i trust him. | |||
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Very interesting. I have used Barnes bullets exclusivly for all my hunting since 2000. I hunt big game with a 300 win mag, a 45-70 Guide gun, a 375 H&H and a 458 win mag. I tend to keep the guns on the big side, however because of the large margin of error that a Barnes bullet gives I now find myself eyeing a 243 and 25-05 for much of my deer and coyote hunting. I have shot deer, coyote, moose, black bear, javelina and feral pigs in North America. In Africa I have shot about 15 head of plains game from a Thompsons Gazelle to Kudu, I have used Barnes on big stuff also, hippo and 3 Cape Buffalo. I am not saying that this poster of pictures is lying. BUT I HAVE NEVER SEEN THIS TYPE UF PERFORMANCE FROM A BARNES X. MY FIRST THOUGHT WAS THAT THIS WAS EITHER BALISTIC TIPS OR OLD SILVERTIPS. Just my 2 cents | |||
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DUDE... why don't you do us all a favor and size-down your mostly tacky pictures...  | |||
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Well I will be using TSX this fall on elk, we shall see just how deadly the truly are. Personally I have my doubts. I'll take pictures and post them. | |||
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I have shot or seen shot seven buffalo with barnes X bullets (two buff with the newer triple bands design this year), two Kudu, a waterbuck, impala, two Zebra,two warthogs and a jackal (all with the triple shock design) and only the jackal was sporting a huge hole but no where near what those pictures show. I'm a big fan of "X" bullets and I've never seen that kind of damage. Of course we weren't using 7mm bullets but I have used 30-06, 338, 375 and 416 with pretty much perfect performance. I will also add that I've also had total satisfaction with North Fork, A frame and Bear Claws. | |||
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I hope no one here owns a Ford F series truck. I bought one in 2005 and it "failed" to run as designed 100% of the time, although it did 98% of the time. Therefore, it is a piece of shit, and I will never own another. (98% of the time, I considered it the best truck I've ever owned). I have never had a problem with a Dodge or GMC truck, therefore, they are not pieces of shit, and will never fail to run as designed 100% of the time. If Dodge trucks and GMC trucks are not pieces of shit, and Ford F series trucks are pieces of shit, then we can all infer that no one should ever own a Ford truck unless they intend to drive a piece of shit. (Sarcasm Off): There are no absolutes in hunting or shooting. To this day, I'm still so perplexed why folks think there are. How do some of you come to this truly remarkable conclusion? I have used the TSX with great success and will continue to do so, and will continue to post all of the future success photos and stories. The TSX is not a bad bullet. FWIW, the link didn't work for me so I never did see any pics of the alleged TSX results. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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I don't know why you have your doubts. I've posted quite a few pictures in the past of dead elk that fell to the TSX bullet. Put the bullet in front of the diaphragm and get your gutting knife out. Having doubts with your hunting gear is not a good position to be in. And uhhh, if you have doubts, then what exactly are you going to take pictures of and post? Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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Ok, the link finally worked. My opinion: Total BS. Someone has been misled. I do not believe for a moment those were TSX bullets. Allegedly, there was a recovered bullet but yet, no photo of it. This looks like someone who does not like TSX bullets for whatever reason and used a Hornady AMax, SMK, or similar target bullet and claimed they were TSX. But a TSX, total bullshit. No way. My brother used a 110 from his 270 on a big bodied KY whitetail last year and the shot was about 80 yards. The hole looked NOTHING like those pics. In fact, he filled a lot of Doe tags in SC with that same combo and no shot distance was greater than 80 yards. There was never an instance of such remarkable entrance or exit wounds. That Dik Dik looks like it was found the next day and had been eaten on. Maybe the actual hunter loaded up some hollow point target bullets and said they were TSX bullets. I've seen hundreds of photos of target bullet kills and those pics have IDENTICAL tissue damage. I've seen my share of X bullet kills and have never seen any like the photos on this link. I will retract my "absolutes" statement from the previous post because this is Absolutely 100% Bullshit, now that I've seen the photos. I don't believe it. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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TSX---Right--LOL.----?---(BS-Flag) | |||
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I've shot a lot of Jack rabbit's with my 25-06. It doesn't matter what bullet I used. High speed bullets on light skinned small game, they explode. It very likely that's just the hydra shock pushing everything through in front of the bullet. Did you ever shoot a empty aluminum pop can with a 22. Small hole in and out. Shoot a full sealed can with the same bullet. It explodes. Its the same thing when you shoot a small animal with a bullet going 3000fps. There just isn't enough body cavity to asorb the hydra shock of bullets impact as the bullet opens and expands. I do use Barnes 140g TSX bullets in my 270WSM at 3300fps. It does a wonderful job on elk and mule deer. | |||
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Painted Horse, your comments are cogent, but are the exception, not the norm with respect to most kills I've seen with a Barnes Triple Shock bullet on big game with thin skin. In fact, most folks will complain about TSX bullets "penciling" through, not exploding. To date, I've never seen such remarkable pictures that were allegedly the result of a TSX bullet, however, they are a perfect fit for many hollow point target bullet kills I've seen over the last couple of decades. I don't want to come across in a nasty way, but those photos are CLASSIC for a target bullet hit. Somewhere along the story telling, someone missed something and somehow all fingers pointed to the TSX. This instance smells like fresh poo to me. FWIW, I've dumped probably 15-20 coyotes with my 270 with either the 110 TSX or 130 TSX at various distances and it took an act of congress to find the holes. Small in, small out. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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Yeah But, Yeah But, Sorry but no thanks still BS. Not Rabbits or pop cans. I have killed alot of animals over the years. In a wide range in size, and wide range of caliber of weapons, with bullets from small to large. No Dice | |||
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Yeah, what Brad said. | |||
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Redhawk1 & Doc -- Phil is a good friend of mine, and there is no hoax taking place here. As tasunkawitko pointed out, Phil has a reputation to uphold. Those were factory loaded Federal TSXs. In a couple of other animals, the bullets failed to penetrate well. That's really inconsistent performance in my book. You can call BS if you want to as that is your decision, but I know and trust the source implicitly. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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I'd be interested to read a response from Barnes if Phil would kindly email those pics to them, AND Federal. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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Doc, he's in Tanzania right now and will be through November I believe. I don't know what he plans on doing, but this was ammo a client brought out and used. I would also be curious to hear what Barnes has to say. I'll ask him...... "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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Whitworth, friend or not, look at the 3rd picture down. Tell me that hide is not cut to expose the bullet hole. There is no way a bullet is going to do that to the hide. Also, the other two pictures looks as if something has eaten the meat, not something a bullet would do. Sorry but I find it all hard to believe. If you're going to make a hole, make it a big one. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ Member of the Delaware Destroyers Member Reeders Misfits NRA Life Member ENDOWMENT MEMBER NAHC Life Member DSA Life Member | |||
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Nosler Partitions have never failed me, or my kids, for accuracy, or in doing their job of killing Deer, all here in Michigan. Don | |||
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You don't have to believe, that's fine. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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One way I could see this out of a TSX is if it shed its petals... This would generally happen only at very high speeds... What happens when they shed their petals is it makes a really nasty flat point (somewhat concave) which will create an enormous wound channel... On the smaller animals that wound channel will be essentially the exit hole... I'm just speculating but that is probably what we are looking at... Ken.... "The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn't so. " - Ronald Reagan | |||
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Both bullets performed perfectly. Bullet 1 hit a 20 pound animal in its shoulder and upper sternum blew through the lower chest taking everything with it including itself INTACTED. Bullet 2 was shot on a large animal that was quartering towards the hunter, Upon impact, as advertised the bullet expanded splitting the hide away from the skin as it ran the hide line and then entered the chest at full expansion resulting in a DEAD ANIMAL. Any bullet would have destroyed the dik dik at those ranges and velocities. And since we are looking at a dead kudo bullet worked pretty well. Perry | |||
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THAT IS THE PROBLEM. This is the foundation of my doubt. This Phil person may be a dear friend of yours but I believe he was misled. I've seen and heard about this many times before. Clients want to see just how good a target bullet works in RSA. They load them up, stick 'em in a factory box and claim that they are something they're not. Heck, this has even been on some outdoor shows on ESPN and the Sportsman's Channel. The long range hunters take SMKs and kill a few deer and elk here in the states, so they take them elsewhere to "prove" how great they are. And of course, they put the "successful" hunts on TEEEVEEE to boast about it. Not that it's any skin off anyone, and my intent is not to defame Phil in anyway, but I think he was lied to. Phil may have been told these were factory fill TSX bullets in a Federal box, but how easy is that? I've always taken factory ammo boxes with my handloads. I could have told the outfitter I was using a TSX when in fact it may have been a Berger. They're both pretty shiny hollow point bullets. Phil, believing the client used TSX bullets, has every right to post disdain comments, but from what we as readers know from the info given, Phil doesn't have a clue whether or not the bullets in question are TSX bullets. His client said they were, that doesn't make it so. This just seems too extraordinary. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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IMHO, arguing about this is a waste of time. Folks have already made up there minds and no ammount of evidence to the contrary will change their positioning. That's fine. Barnes bullets certainly aren't infallible, and the same can be said about Noslers, Sierras, fill-in-the-blank. This is one person's experience. These threads tend to turn ugly and I don't want to partcipate in a pissing contest. We can all agree to disagree. "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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My first thoughts too. Client says they're Barnes, I'd like to have tried to get him to leave some of them behind. Most use factory ammo boxes to avoid questions about "manufactured ammo". I shot an elk through the neck at about 17 yards with a 200gr X out of a .338 WM and it left an exit the size of a quarter. I've also used them at distance, but up close this was about as much of a test as I have to compare and it was nothing close to this. They exited every time and none left a bigger exit than this close neck shot. I tested them (X & XLC) and others before using them on game, and at high velocity they'll shed petals, but I've never seen anything even close to the size holes in the photo's. I've even used some of those terrible Sierra HPBT's that everyone loves to bash and had less damage than what's in these pictures. I'm not an expert, but this doesn't add up to me. Nate | |||
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I agree.
Not true. Nate brought up a good point. Had the hunter left a few rounds behind to examine, that would be good enough for me. 
And we can end it on a good note. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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Amen, Doc!  "Ignorance you can correct, you can't fix stupid." JWP If stupidity hurt, a lot of people would be walking around screaming. Semper Fidelis "Building Carpal Tunnel one round at a time" | |||
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amen +1 - i've removed the link and may request that the entire thread be deleted. i can certainly understand and would encourage reasonable debate but i think it's a little extreme to call phil a liar. the explanations provided seem reasonable to me, and the suggestions offered by painted horse and heat also seem reasonable. to those who've had good experiences with TSX, i say congratulations. you either got lucky or, more likely, used the bullet in a manner that it was designed for. keep in mind that phil has no control over what his clients use, and if they choose an inappropriate course, all he can do is record the outcome. either way, i don't see any scenario in the future where i will be using them. | |||
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I don't plan on using them either. More of a price issue than performance. Didn't mean to add to the  | |||
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