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Originally posted by Paleohunter:
H.C. and thats is suppose to mean what? If 3/4 of everbody who drives gave up their cars say for some envrio shit and you did not and then they want to pass a law outlawing them and it was put to the ballet; who do you think would win. 2nd Amendment will not save our ass forever, they could just pass another Amendment or repel the old one. Regaurdless what Orion1 thinks it can be done.

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Originally posted by heavy varmint:
Orion, Paleohunter is right! WHEN HUNTING DIES SO DOES YOUR GUN RIGHTS. Surely someone intrusted to make decisions that could make or break an entire business can make the connection.

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If you don't recognize that the Second was not inserted in the Constitution to provide for sport, you are part of the problem and part of the reason we WILL lose our rights.

Go back and READ the intent of the Founding Fathers regarding the Second Amendment. Find out what they said they meant, rather than making shit up.

You people who think the Second exists so that you may have a deer rifle or a duck gun PISS ME OFF with your ignorance.

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Originally posted by Mike375:
It is easy to see why the problems outlined in this thread exist...a product of the huge American population.

Like everything else in life the huge population brings certain advantages and of course certain negatives.

Having said that, I think if I moved to America tomorrow then the opportunities available would end up allowig me to shoot as freely as I can in Australia.

The bigger the opportunity the more it will be disguised.

Mike

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Originally posted by Orion 1:

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Originally posted by Mike375:
It is easy to see why the problems outlined in this thread exist...a product of the huge American population.

Like everything else in life the huge population brings certain advantages and of course certain negatives.

Having said that, I think if I moved to America tomorrow then the opportunities available would end up allowig me to shoot as freely as I can in Australia.

The bigger the opportunity the more it will be disguised.

Mike

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Once again, you show yourself to be a fool by thinking you know anything about America in general and texas in particular.

I suggest you stay the fuck out of topics, such as this one, that you know nothing about.

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Originally posted by HenryC470:
[QUOTE]Hunting is a luxury pastime of elites, and it has been ever sinced agriculture was invented. Self defense and armed resistance to tyranny are rights given by God and secured by an armed people, whether they hunt or not.

As a practical matter, if you don't let a ranch owners supplement his income by letting people pay to hunt on his private land, how long do think it will be before his land is subdivided into 10-acre mini-ranches for Caifornians? Then where are you going to hunt?

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Originally posted by beemanbeme:
while it is true our priviledge to hunt is rooted in the subsistance lifestyle of the first settlers, in most countries, hunting is a pastime of the priviledged.

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And finally, they aren't making any more land. As a commodity, it is becoming more and more dear. Why shouldn't the farmer sell access to the highest bidder??? If he sold his cattle or crops based on someones wants rather than his needs or profits, he wouldn't be in business long.

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While I might not like it, its called "the marketplace" and money talks and bullshit takes up bowling.

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Originally posted by Aquavit:
...There is no basis for this idea of hunting as a passtime of elites... not in this country, not from its very beginnings. America was and is such a brilliant and virtuous deviation from the rest of the subjegated world that it stands alone....

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Originally posted by Aquavit:
...While looking for a culprit, we're clearly ignoring as to why our farmers and ranchers are driven to supplement their incomes in the first place.

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Originally posted by HenryC470:

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Aquavit:
...While looking for a culprit, we're clearly ignoring as to why our farmers and ranchers are driven to supplement their incomes in the first place.

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I think every economically successful person is driven to supplement his income. The losers who sit around and whine that other people have too much money, those are the ones I worry about.

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Originally posted by Gatogordo:
posted by Paleohunter 06-26-2003 18:43

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--------------------------------------------------If you make so little (5%) then sell the land. I have offered to by land from some ranchers in central TX but even though they barly get by they were not intressed. You do have the right to do what ever you want with your land; but when does one stop being a rancher and start being a whore?
Two hunters have a lease that backs up to ours they have only 47 acers yet the owner/rancher leases it to them for the low sum of 4.500$ a year. He does not run cattle on it,does not plant anything on it,does not even play on it; but I know something that the guys that lease it dont. The owner/rancher lets his kids and his kids friends hunt on it when the guys who lease it are not there. So is this a rancher or whore??

End quoted text:

Oh, I dunno, if the rancher you are referring to can lease 47 acres for $4500.00 (or whatever you tried to scribble above) then I want to be whoring right along with him. Your experience with ranchers is similar to mine with some hunters, I know several individuals that claim to hunt, and some of them are perfect assholes. I can tell by your writing that you are not perfect, but keep trying.

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Originally posted by Gatogordo:
Perfect.....

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Thank ya I tried really really hard that time

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Originally posted by Gator1:
If I read this right, you all view sellers of access and sellers of animals as whores. Are they whores because they sell something you want for free or because you cannot afford them?

If in fact they are whores are you then not the Johns? Paying for your thrill? Aren't hunters always willing to pay for their thrill if it is cheap enough? Even going to Zimbabwe and supporting a corrupt government that is bad for the citizens because it is what they want?

Hunters have no morals so why should ranchers be any different?

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Originally posted by Arts:
I suggest that you are a bit paranoid over the no place to hunt deal and it being a death knoll for hunting. Most--not all--of the western US is public land open to hunting--for the cost of a license. Texas has this big "problem" because, as stated by someone earlier, they have no public land. It being private land, the land owner has the right, in this country, to do as he wishes with it (as long as it's legal activity). It must be that way. That, gents, is freedom! No, it isn't conducive to happiness regarding many of your desires regarding hunting, but it is freedom. Would you advocate taking away that landowners freedom? Which freedom goes next? If Texas hunting has become too expensive for some of you, then go elswhere to hunt (or live, for that matter). When criticizing what private land owners do with their property, which, although it is called real property, is in truth their personal property, then we are walking/talking on thin ice regarding freedom. Nobody likes to pay money for anything, but of course, it is a fact of life. The green fee for golfers is an excellent analogy.

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If I being paranoid then why is it a concern of every hunting org and writers? I dont sit around and just make this stuff up (whatever one thinks) hell pick up a Out Door Life, Field and Stream, Sports Afield, American Hunter, ect ect they all say the same thing; the biggest threat to hunting in America is: 1. There are not enough young hunters. 2. Public land is being restricted, 3. Loose of land. 4. The price of hunting. Am I paranoid your DAMN RIGHT I paranoid the number of hunting licenses have fallen and keep falling so YOU tell me whaat you think the cause is!

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Originally posted by heavy varmint:
Orion, you took 8 words from my statement and without so much as a question spun them into a fictional me that exists only in your mind, then managed to get yourself pissed off at that character. That can't be good.

Needless to say, your insinuations concerning me are way off track.

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I suggest you let orion tell you about yourself, it is one of the topics he knows most about and is free to butt in on.
he will shut down your company next, in your best interests of course

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Originally posted by heavy varmint:
Orion, you took 8 words from my statement and without so much as a question spun them into a fictional me that exists only in your mind, then managed to get yourself pissed off at that character. That can't be good.

Needless to say, your insinuations concerning me are way off track.

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Originally posted by Gator1:
Aren't hunters always willing to pay for their thrill if it is cheap enough? Even going to Zimbabwe and supporting a corrupt government that is bad for the citizens because it is what they want?

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Originally posted by beemanbeme:
Contary to what some of the follks in the room think, hunting on someone else's land is not a birthright. At what margin of profit does a man turn from a businessman to a whore????? Pretty strong, irresponsible words. I'm sure they will endear us to any farmer/rancher that reads them.

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Lets see:
Enron- Businessmen or Whore's?
World Com-Businessmen or Whor's?
After all they were just trying to incress their income

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Originally posted by Paleohunter:

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Originally posted by beemanbeme:
Contary to what some of the follks in the room think, hunting on someone else's land is not a birthright. At what margin of profit does a man turn from a businessman to a whore????? Pretty strong, irresponsible words. I'm sure they will endear us to any farmer/rancher that reads them.

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Lets see:
Enron- Businessmen or Whore's?
World Com-Businessmen or Whor's?
After all they were just trying to incress their income

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Originally posted by Orion 1:

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Originally posted by Paleohunter:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by beemanbeme:
Contary to what some of the follks in the room think, hunting on someone else's land is not a birthright. At what margin of profit does a man turn from a businessman to a whore????? Pretty strong, irresponsible words. I'm sure they will endear us to any farmer/rancher that reads them.

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Lets see:
Enron- Businessmen or Whore's?
World Com-Businessmen or Whor's?
After all they were just trying to incress their income

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[/QUOTE

Boy are you a sweet one
Mommy not show you enough love growing up? She certainly did not teach you any social grace. So is the Co your work for called "I'm a Dick LLC."

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Originally posted by Bama:
You boys sure are rough on each other. Paleohunter I'm sure your a decent guy but in your posts you come off like a first rate jerk. If you don't like paying a rancher to hunt in Texas move or hunt somewhere else.

I find it hard to believe you could tell someone who is having a hard time making it a a rancher to sell his land instead of trying to collect money for hunting rights. I think the gentleman made it clear it was family land and something he wanted to try and pass down to his kids. You can't blame a guy for trying to keep family land in the family.

I particularly love the whore comparision. You take something that one rancher is doing(charging a high rate and sneaking family on to hunt it) and lump other ranchers into the same pile with him. Your as bad as the anti's who met a slob hunter and compare the rest of us hunters to them.

Oh, by the way Enron and the others you mentioned are not whores or businesmen. They are thieves and there is a difference.

I'm sorry you live in Texas where there is no public land and you have to hunt jack rabbit size deer at exhorbant prices. My suggestion is to move or grow up. Hell, come to Alabama we have plenty of public land and leases are reasonable, but please leave the attitude in Texas when you board the plane.

Bama

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Originally posted by Paul H:
Is it easy or inexspensive to hunt in this day and age? No, darn few people can hike out in the back 40 in the afternoon with hopes of bagging game.

So, we can either bitch about who's falt it is, and how unfair it is, or we can do something about it. I see there being two options, make enough money to pay the going rate in Texas, or move somewhere that provides better options.

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Originally posted by Paleohunter:

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Originally posted by Paul H:
Is it easy or inexspensive to hunt in this day and age? No, darn few people can hike out in the back 40 in the afternoon with hopes of bagging game.

So, we can either bitch about who's falt it is, and how unfair it is, or we can do something about it. I see there being two options, make enough money to pay the going rate in Texas, or move somewhere that provides better options.

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Paul if I can get my wife to agree I'm looking at your neck of the woods. ALASKA love that state, and they need teachers too. Although I dont know what my wife would do?

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