The following is a E mail forward I got I can't say if it is true or not. Maybe someone here can confirm it or disprove it. All I can say is if it's true this would really piss me off! I'm from a ranching family so you don't wamt to know what I think of wolfs.

E Mail says
> This is a letter from a friend in Jackson. Jerry's family homesteaded
> there in the late 1800's. Will you please forward this to your lists.
> Write your reps, call the Governor, scream bloody murder. The cow/calf
> ratio will be
> 0 if this doesn't stop.
>
> Governor Jim Geringer 307-777-7434, fax 307-632-3909, Ed
> Bangs-406-449-5225, -WYOMING GAME AND FISH DEPARTMENT OFFICE OF THE
> DIRECTOR
> 5400 BISHOP BOULEVARD CHEYENNE, WYOMING 82006
> (307) 777-4600 FAX - (307) 777-4699
>
>
> Jackson Hole, WY March 19, 2002
>
> Wyoming Citizens,
>
> My wife and I went snow machining up the Gros Ventre last Friday March
> 15. Saw 4 wolves run across the road in front of us just east of the Red
> Rock ranch. Stopped and talked to two volunteers from federal fish and
> wildlife service, one from Maine and one from North Dakota. Noticed elk
> tracks everywhere. ( very unusual) Asked how many wolves were here?
> "About 13" How many elk are they killing? "Three or more a night" (not
> counting pregnant cows aborting because of being run and stressed.)
> Continued up the road, appalled by the amount of running elk tracks
> everywhere. (They have been conditioned for years to stay on the feed
> grounds) Stopped at the Goose Wing feed grounds. Pile of about 20 to 30
> dead elk (cows and calves) by the road pulled there by elk feeders. Some
> had small amounts of flesh eaten (10 to
> 15) pounds from hind quarters, left to die..Others caught by nose. Nose,
> lips and tongue eaten off and left to die.Wounded and stressed elk
> laying away from herd, unable to get up. (4 or more)
>
> Threw up---went home---haven't slept since.
>
> Folks, night after night Canadian wolves are killing (not eating) your
> local elk herds. Don't let the elk go the way of the American Bison!!!
> Stop the carnage before it's to late! It's worse than you have been led
> to believe.
>
> Jerry Wilson Born here 1938

X-Ring
>

------------------
Sinner, saved by God's unfailing grace!

I sure hope it isn't true....and I kind of doubt it is.

Based on what I've read and seen of our local wolves, they eat what they kill.

Now domestic cats are the ones famous for killing game just for the fun of it.

You may know what I think of cats...if you don't, I think the only reason for them to exist is for live targets.

Wolves in NC?

Red wolves in NC there is court case going up asking the supreme court to basicly declare the endanger speics act unconsitutional over them saying that they do not cross state line so the feds have no control.
<< Yes wolves like any other predtor well kill and not eat what they kill. Most of the time the eat it but when they have easy killing and lots of oppurtuneity the well kill with out eating.

I agree that wolves will kill for fun, but not often. They usually kill when they are hungry, and eat what they kill. If the wolves are mixed with wild dogs, or dogs alone, thats a whole new game. Out in BC I saw where the dogs had killed a deer, ate the guts, left the rest.
Either way, it's a serious situation. Time for a wolf/dog hunt!

Hate to say this Pdog, but we've red wolves here in E. TN. I won't testify in the case, but someone, somewhere will point it out at the trial.

Freaking Canadians! Oh, they were Canadian Wolves.

Yep Longbob, them dang "Canadian Wolves" are just wanton killers-dont't eat much, just kill a lot, they sure play hell on little girls wearin red hoods and their sick grannies too.
Man, they're runnin the streets up here, dang things all over the place, killin everything they see. Whole buncha run-by-killins lately. They're easily identified by their black hood outfits and the baggy-assed look, and sports logo on their backs.

Glad to see a sense of humour here, cause it's really not the end of the world ya know.

Wolves are wolves-they act like wolves and do what wolves do.

Tom

I worked for a logging operation cutting in a big deer yard a few years ago, anybody that doesn't believe wolves kill for fun should pull their head out of their ASS!! In 1 winter alone I personally saw at least 1, usually more, dead deer a day, every day I was there. I only saw 3 that were completely eaten all winter, but I saw LOTS with as little as 2-3lbs of meat eaten, usually at the ass!

The late elk hunt in the Gallatin used to always give out 500 cow tag. I believe this last year there were 80 given out. This has changed in the last couple of years-suppose the wolves have anything to do with this?

Last week a rancher from the Cameron (down the Madison) lost his pal named Blue. I almost shed a tear when I read about it in the Bozo paper. Blue was his buddy had him quite a few years. I am single and can relate to how close the rancher and Blue were as I am very close with Jake my yellow Lab. Anyway a couple of wolves lured Blue off and killed him b4 the rancher could help out. I will be the first one hunting and killing every freaking wolf I can when they open it up to legal hunting!!!

Just my thoughts! It cost us a hell of a lot of money to bring the bastards into this country and I feel it's gonna cost a hell of a lot to contain them as well.

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

by the way 2 springs ago calling bears I had 4 wolves come to the call-can you guess what I'll be a doing when they make it legal!?

The wolf behavior I have experienced in the past was that they killed for food not for fun. That is not to say that an occasional fun kill doesn't happen.

FOR THE RECORD BISON DID NOT DIE OUT DO TO WOLVES! There was a white skinned two legged predator that decimated the the great bison herds!

I have one question though. How is this any different that the 100 and perhaps thousands of two legged hunters that travel to the Rockies every year and wound elk loose track of them and therefore leave them to die! I see little difference. Perhaps the wolves are only mimicing our behavior!

Of course if the wolves are all slaughtered them we have our "free chase" elk herds to hunt all to ourselves. To me if the elk are left unmolested they are little more than domestic cattle. There hunting pressure put on them by the wolves is good for the elk. Sure some may die and there will be less elk tags available to us human hunters, but the elk will be much more wily and provide a much more challenging hunt!

Todd E

Yes, wolves will kill far more than they need when there is a yarding or feeding station situation. The prey is just too easy to come by in those cases. The only thing that can prevent the over killing is the depersion of the herds but that's not always practical when winter range has been restricted by human use. Making it legal to kill wolves will be like pulling teeth without the aid of a painkiller but a legal season on the wolf is what will keep them in check.

Todd E.
I don't beleive Mr. Wilson (if there is such a person) was saying wolfs killed the great bison herds. Just that it would be a shame to see the elk herds wiped out by man or animal.

I'm just sick to death of libral tree huggers and animal rights people who don't even live in the western states telling us how we should live. Telling us we have to bring wolves back to our forrests and range lands. It's easy for them to sit back and love wolves when the only thing they know about these killers is what they see on the Disney chanel. They don't know nor do they care what these animals are capible of. It's not their back yard in which they live, and it's not their stock that they will kill in hard winters when the elk are harder to kill than a cow or sheep. So they sit in Starbucks and sip their lattee's and lobby to have these killers reinterduced to our back yard and think they are serving some greater good.
I to wouldn't want to see the wolves exstinct. They are awsome animals to watch, Humans can learn so much from there leadership and team skills, but ranchers need and should have the right to shoot and kill any wolves they catch killing their stock. As the laws are written now he must sit by and watch, or hope no one is watching as he shoots, shovles, and shuts up. Thats wrong! If they are killing stock or pets they need to be delt with, and some of these guys live a far peice from the next animal control officer.
X-Ring

------------------
Sinner, saved by God's unfailing grace!

"ranchers need and should have the right to shoot and kill any wolves they catch killing their stock. As the laws are written now he must sit by and watch, or hope no one is watching as he shoots, shovles, and shuts up. Thats wrong! If they are killing stock or pets they need to be delt with, and some of these guys live a far peice from the next animal control officer."

That is total horse hockey that they cannot protect their livestock. I agree with you that they should be able to shoot them under these circumstances. You need to get off your Bible thumping ass, top off the oil in that leaking Hog, shovel yourself out a clear path, and go see your congressman.

During the debates, one of our western senators did tell New York state that if they like wolves so much, he'd get a pair for them to turn loose somewhere in the farmlands of New York.

The West has been pretty civilized for a long time. We have running water, electricity, and the internet out here. We have livestock and we have children. Some people making the rules seem to have learned all they know about the West by watching Gene Autry and Roy Rogers. They want to return to a romantic version of the West that simply never existed. They will likely never see a real, wild wolf, but the knowledge that they are running free on other people's farms and ranches makes them feel all warm and fuzzy.

Oh Ya? Well longbob I'll have you know my HOG don't leak so there , But it is snowing again, and I spoke to my Senater last week!
If it's Horse hockey why are these guys afriad to shoot wolves and protect there heards? Because of the insueing legal battles that will occur from such a shooting. If the state and feds aren't bad enough you also have the butt holes at PETA to worry about, and they will spend a lot of money to make sure you are made out to be the bad guy for killing one of these animals.

I know it sounds like conspiriesy theroy stuff to folks that don't live in the western states, but man if you don't believe me come on out here and shoot a Griz thats chargeing you, or a wolf thats eating your calves, and see what these animal lovers will do to you. You shoot a griz and you damm well better have claw marks on you or your going to jail, and I'm not so sure anymore you wont with claw marks. You might get charged with disturbing the bears habitat by walking in his forest or something stupid so you deserved to be attact.

Denton well said.
X-Ring

------------------
Sinner, saved by God's unfailing grace!

[This message has been edited by X-Ring (edited 03-30-2002).]

I meant that it was Horse Hockey that the law won't allow them to shoot the wolves. Not that you weren't telling the truth. Except, of course, about the leaking Hog.

As far as if it's happening or not, I can easily believe it, think about it.

Over the years through feeding programs we have trained Elk to stay in certain areas if they want to easily survive the winter. Introduce a predator into that and you now have a nice buffet for wolves.
I don't know about you but when I go to a buffet I might try a lot of things but I'll go back for what I like best . That's exactly what the wolves are doing, why would they eat an entire elk if it's easy to just kill another for more delicious lips and guts. Not to mention some easy to kill training for the less experienced in the pack.

I do think that hunting will help prevent some of this but if there are large herds anchored by feeding programs aren't we really just setting up a feeding program for the wolves too?

Zak

Last fall, while hunting elk in the White Mountains of eastern Arizona, my wife an I heard the sounds of the re-introduced Mexican Gray Wolves making a kill. The sounds were horrible. I guess it took close to half an hour, maybe 45 minutes before the screaming of that animal stopped. I just wish all those PETA freaks, bunny and tree huggers could have been there to hear those sounds. Maybe we should save a cow and feed them to the wolves. bet they'd change their tune in one hell of a hurry.
The next day, we located the kill site. A rancher lost a beef animal that night. This rancher, BTW had been looking for that missing cow for several days prior to the wolf kill.
I have seen these wolves on several occasions in that area, heard them howl, but when they made that kill, well there's no way I can describe the agony that beef critter went through.
Supposedly, there have been no reports of wolf attacks on humans in North America. Maybe that's because the attackee didn't survive to report it. BTW, that was not said in jest.
Paul B.

Well,

Wolves once roamed all over the United States. Now they do not. We have slaughtered them much like we did the indians! This was done because we wanted what they had, PERIOD! We now are complaining that we are not allowed to shoot the wolves and this is decimating the elk herds. This is total bullshit! The elk herds in their current ranges may well be over populated and this situation is being addressed by the wolves. The elk will have to learn to run away as their ancestors did for eons. We, man, have kept the elk populations up because we enjoy shooting elk. We keep them in feeding stations so we know were they are to make it easier for our "sport hunting" or "free chase hunting". The state enjoys our enjoyment because they charge us for the pleasure. Unfortunately gentlemen, the fate of the wolf is also shared by the elk. We kill off the wolves today to protect our elk hunting, but do to human overpopulation the elk will soon run out of living space also. This situation will result in the end of "wild" elk herds. I see this already. I travel out west and the herds are not what or where they were when I was a kid.

In the end, the elk will go like the bison. It will be a farm raised, pay the game rancher, get your elk trophy endeavor. So kill the wolves if you want, but your children or grand children will not be able to hunt free ranging elk of that I am certain. Unless of course somebody comes along and decimates the human race.

Oh, I grew up out west and in my day Washington state had mountain lions, wolves and grizzlies. We had salmon, elk, and black tails to. Now that is not so. What Washington state does have alot more of though is humans! FYI, all you westerners there are wolf populations in several midwestern states. The deer poluations are just fine by the way.

Much of the elk population problems in Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Colorado, etc are do to over hunting by humans NOT WOLVES! Deny it if you want, but the truth remains the truth. Thousands upon thousands of humans kill elk, there are only a couple of hundred wolves. The law of averages tells the tale. If the these states were not so greedy for out of state hunting license revenues the elk populations would be stronger today than they are.

Argue way with each other. Wolf pelts never did much for me either. Might as well shoot somebodies husky and hang it on the wall.

Oh, I am all for bringing wolves back to Ohio. Michigan has them. My hope would be that they kill off some of the excess deer so we do not need to worry so much about hitting those pesky deer with our cars! There is alot of wasted venison on Ohio's
highways.

Zak,
Another consideration is that the elk have been truly changed by mans interference in their lives. The elk may not run away as they should. To a wolf this signals a sick or otherwise unfit animal. Wolves kill by their very nature sick and otherwise unfit animals.

Paul B and all the other bleeding hearts,
Wolves do not have technilogical superiority like their two legged adversaries. An elk is a mighty big critter. You should try killing one with your teeth and bare hands before you judge how quickly a wolf pack can dispatch an elk. If a group of you cry babies tried to kill an elk bare handed I am confident that there would be far fewer bleeding heart cry babies, while the elk populations would remain relatively constant. You should watch more predators making kills. These kills are never as antiseptic as our shooting. The prey always suffers. That said though the predator is in jeopardy of killing the snot kicked/gored out of him.

Todd E

[This message has been edited by Todd E (edited 03-31-2002).]

Todd E,

Is it bullshit that ranchers should have the ability to protect their livestock? Or are you differentiating between that and protecting the elk herds?

Hmmmm,I smell a PETA member,and I bet you don't have to guess who I'm reffering too.

Speaking of those psycho PETA folks,did anyone see Howard Stern the other night when those PETA chicks came in to preach?We should give that guy a medal."Take off your top or the fish dies!!".

------------------
I'm out to wrong rights,depress the opressed,and generaly make an ass of myself!

You must be real old Todd.I have lived and hunted in Washington all my life. I am 45. My dad is 84 and he also has lived here all his life. Raised in the Methow Valley. You say wolves were here as were grizz. That might be right. The cougar are still here and in greater numbers than ever. Same goes for the blacktail deer. As a matter of fact, and I mean FACT!!! There are more blacktails in the state of Washington than both whitetail and mule deer combined. So if you are going to spout your horseshit, state the facts, not untruths.

There's lots of opinion here. There were no reports of Mountain lion attacks on humans either until about 7 or 8 yrs ago when one got a kid in California. You have problems of territorial encroachment and familiarity breeding comtempt. I have seen films taken over a period of 30 yrs showing wolves hunting, breeding with farm dogs and the resultant change in behavior. I have delt with wolves a little on a professional level and they ain't just big dogs.
Live and let live but kill'em when they get out of line. If my stock was being taken I believe wolves would disappear. There are other ways to control pests. One trapper gave the Mandan blankets of smallpox victims (or was it measles that did them in). That freed up a lot of territory for the Westward expansion.
Johnny Cannuck hit the nail on the head about the mixture with dogs. I had a breeder tell me about 30 yrs ago "Don't mix them with any type of Alsatian or Husky type dog. They're too crazy." He had a pair that he kept for 13 yrs to show school kids, etc. He said it was a "green type thing" when he started but it got to be too much work to stay ahead of them. He never really trusted them even though he told all the kids he did. He said he'd never do it again and nobody else should either.
I suspect coyotes are breeding with them. They breed with everything else these days.

[This message has been edited by Dr. Duc (edited 03-31-2002).]

I have spent most of my life outdoors and I don't know why in the world we reinstated the wolf..today he serves no purpose but to create havoc...He multiplys in litters, elk have one or two as do deer...that screws up the food chain cycle. Wolves and cats WILL kill for fun, so will bears.

This old crap about lions and wolves killing the weak is so much ca-ca...They are going to kill the healthies fattest animals in the herd, they are a better judge of flesh than any of us, and anybody who states otherwise is an idiot or just flat out lieing.. Lions will kill huge bucks during the rut every year..Its the smell.

I don't believe in killing all the wolves, lions and coyotes but we had better bring a little moderation back into our thinking and use preditor control. We hunt the game but not the preditors, now where is that going to take us...

Todd simply expressed his views, because we disagree with him is not grounds for flaming him..It is our place to change his thinking if we can and if we cannot then thats our loss.

------------------
Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

I think this is where a bunch of eastern living individuals jump on and tell me why Wyoming should have wolves.
Man am I glad our new secretary of the interior is from WY.

I'm gonna stand right in the middle of this argument. I am all in favor of predator reintroduction . . . that way I can HUNT THEM TOO! I'm no PETA member but I want to see wolves, grizzlies, and cats all over the lower 48. Sure, the game herds might suffer a bit but that is just a good reason to fight a bit harder for more habitat and the occasional rancher should be allowed to whack one that has become a problem but I like the idea of a world where there is the uncertainty brought about by not being on top of the food chain now and again.
I think predator reintroduction might even help our cause as hunters. How long do you think the latte sipping Starbucks crowd is going to be anti-gun and anti-hunting when a big tom mountian lion is seen walking by the edge of the subdivision with their pet Cocker Spaniel in his mouth?

JMHO,

JohnTheGreek

John, I think that's great! We already have it in Fla. with gators. Gators dearly love dogs!

Hoghead,
I am about your age. I suppose you do not remember that there used to be salmon in Washingtons streams and rivers. Now they only reside in fisheries. The shortsightedness of man is disgusting. The lumber industry sold out to the Japanese and clear cut everything in sight for a while. The brilliant Washington lumber jack would have turned Washington state into a new great plains if not stopped. In the process he would have ended his own livlihood. A good family friend shot a grizzly in the northern Cascades back in 75 in self defense (at least that what he said it was). Hell back them everyone was busy looking for big foot too. There were several documented grizzly sightings at that time.

This whole argument is so primordial! Man and wolf have competed for eons for the same game. You guys are just balling about loosing potential trophies to wolves.

Ray,
You sir are somewhat full of it. No predator that is literally risking life and limb is going to trophy hunt for the biggest and strongest best rack. He will kill the easiest i.e. old, weak, infirmed, young, stupid, etc. That is not to say they will get a good strong animal if it makes a mistake (stupid animal). I have never seen any predator with heads mounted on his den walls.

I am a PETA member, you betcha! I am a member of their covert operations team. I sneak into the woods with rifle in hand and act like an evil hunter and shoot deer. Another of my recent operations involved shooting some of those farm raised bison. Then to top it all off I eat the animals meat so as to illustrate just how preverse the hunter truly is! By the way, I was not the one crying my heart out for how terribly cruel a death the wolves dealt to an Arizona elk! Nor was I lending support to these elk huggers! To me a good elk is a dead one which has been cut up and is setting in my freezer!

Oh and I agree that a rancher should have the right to protect his livestock. I also know the power of temptation. So I would insist that he video tape the aggression prior to letting loose so as to null any accusations of pleasure or sport shooting. After all if you have video of a wolf pack circling your calves I cannot argue that you would be justified in sending a few wolves to the happy hunting grounds.

To me the whole email message is kinda weird in that all the dead elk are real close together. Seems like they all died within run down distance of each other. Sounds almost like someone gathered up some winter kills and wolves were scavenging off of them.

By the way, how many wolves are there in Wyoming and Montana? There are a great many in the north country here. That would be Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan. So there you Western dudes we have wolves around here to. I worry more about drive by shootings though than wolves carrying off the neighborhood children.

Todd E

[This message has been edited by Todd E (edited 03-31-2002).]

I am glad we eradicated the wolf. There isn't enough room for him and us. Why in the world do people want to introduce him in an environment he no longer belongs in?

H. C.

I suspect the coyotes in Alabama cause more problem than the wolves in Montana-but the coyotes eat the calves as they are being born and the farmers dogs. The Alabama Cattlemans Assoc got permission from the Game Commission to shoot them with night vison technology. You can also buy strychnine-all you have to say to the the pharmacist is "Sell me some coyote poison".

"So I would insist that he video tape the aggression prior to letting loose so as to null any accusations of pleasure or sport shooting. After all if you have video of a wolf pack circling your calves I cannot argue that you would be justified in sending a few wolves to the happy hunting grounds."

That is unrealistic. Even in the State of Texas I am not required to videotape a perpetrator during the commission of the crime to justify my use of deadly force.

Boy, you guys think you got problems with the Wolf . . . just wait til some of us on this board reintroduce the Sabre tooth cats and Mammoths that we want to hunt so bad. . . But that's another thread.

JohnTheGreek

Why is it,that you always have to have some jerk off like todd running around on these forums.
I've been on plenty of lion kills,in november and have seen good muley and whitetail bucks killed,because they throw caution to the wind during the rut, not because the lion was trophy hunting.
I also was in on hunting a female lion this last fall,that was averaging 2 deer a night and it was easily confirmed,by the tracks in snow that it was just one lion. This bitch was just killing for shits and giggles and not even eating the kills. The landowner didn't have much of a problem with this at first,but when the lion got in with his registered quarter horses,and was walking around his front porch,his thoughts changed. The lion turned out to be 4 years old,in perfect health,with no kittens.
The whole logic of reintroducing wolves,was the brainchild of a bunch of douche bag biologists and activists,that were in search of funding to keep them in a job. So lets reintroduce a predator,that was killed off in the first place,for doing the very same shit it's pulling now. But instead of having vast amounts of wilderness to roam as it did in the past,now the wolf gets to live in semipopulated areas and compete with livestock and game animals.
The only way to deal with this problem,is to shoot these wolves on sight. You'll never get a season on these animals,there is to much red tape involved. Not to mention the game and fish in wyoming like these wolves,for a variety of reasons. One is,they can blame low big game numbers all on wolves,instead of taking the blame themselves for piss poor management. All these departments are interested in,is selling permits and turning a profit.
Another benefit,is the game and fish is in bed with local ranchers,just look at what past wyoming game and fish commisions have been made up of,ranchers and lawyers and ranchers love welfare checks,for livestock loses due to predation.

Todd
These animals do more than a fair share of their killing at dusk, night time, and early morning. It can take months and in some cases years to get a clear clean shot on these killers. (wolves and cats)Wolves have been documented moveing over 100 miles in a 24hr period. When they get into that lopeing motion they can go for very long distances with out stopping. Now we should waste time trying to video tape them before we shoot so as to document them trying to kill live stock
Your funny as hell man. Run that idea by some cattle or sheep producers!
FWIW not that he needs me to defend him, but Ray has probly spent more time in the wilds of this country and Africa than any two or three of us put together, and your going to slap him in the face like that.
I have been on a freash couger kill, and the whole heard had boiiled out of the canyon before I got there. The dead animal I found was a big young very healthy looking BUCK. You gonna tell me it wouldn't be easer to kill a fawn or doe?
The other thing about this issue that pisses me off is the disinformation from F&Game, and others involved in the reintroduction of wolves. According to them they haven't put any in to the Highwood Mountains yet and to there knowledge there are none there, But I saw one as clear as day two years ago as I was coming out from a day of deer hunting. I got a clear clean look at it, and it was no big coyote!

I'm from a cattle ranching family. Some of my best friends to this day are real American cowboys, and I don't mean some fagish urban cowboy types.(thats right a biker with red neck roots hows that for contrasting heritage ) Maybe when some bleeding heart butt hole shows up on your door step and says hey some guys in N.Y. want to take a bunch of money out of your pay check because they want to do ______________ you will see this isssue for what it is. I for one am not a cry baby, bleeding heart. I'm pissed of at people like you who think wolves in grazing lands are a good idea! That ranks right up there with hireing pediphiles for school teacher!
X-Ring

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Sinner, saved by God's unfailing grace!

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, I remember posting something like this in the politics forum. I caught lots of heat for wanting to get rid of the wolf re-intro. Here is the facts, we, man have screwed up the ecosystem so bad it is now our job to do predator control. The days of letting nature take it's course are over. Any of you guys remember all of us dumbshit rednecks beating jackrabbits to death back in the 80's? Supposedly it was because we killed all of the birds of prey and other predators that caused the huge bunny populations. Ahh! the discovery channel prop. Talk to anyone with any age under there belt and they will tell you the bunnies have done this for years about a every 10 yr cycle. Why don't we have bunny problems anymore? The birds of prey are protected? No because we man have destroyed there natural homes. No more huge sage brush pockets they like so much. Wolves were in Idaho long before they got reintroduced. I witnessed that on an elk hunt. They were hunting, nice little pretty pack. I do think wolves are neat, so are grizzlies. Let man do what now is our job to do. No more days of the indians. Those days are long over. It is just like with anything else. Government justs wants to control us. Nothing more. They don't care about peoples livlihoods. They care about money. Wolves are money. If anybody don't believe that they are blind, and quit believing everything discovery puts on their channel. It is PETA horseshit! I would just love to give up hunting so i can feed the local wolves that were here to begin with anyway. Sorry about the rant but this hits close to home!

If I was hunting for a wolf I'd have to do some checking cause I thing the bullets I use on deer would blow too big a hole in the hide.

Since the 06 is everything, what factory ammo should I consider for minimum pelt damage?

------------------
boman

I usually don't join in on these type of pissing matches. However some of Todd's statements about Washington wildlife statistics are just not true.

Todd wrote:

quote:

---

Oh, I grew up out west and in my day Washington state had mountain lions, wolves and grizzlies. We had salmon, elk, and black tails to. Now that is not so. What Washington state does have alot more of though is humans! FYI, all you westerners there are wolf populations in several midwestern states. The deer poluations are just fine by the way.

---

While there are no verifiable reports of Grizzlies in WA in the past few years, there haven't been many verifiable reports over the past fifty either. They are seen on the other side of the Canadian border, close to Washington, quite often. See the following link:

http://www.wa.gov/wdfw/factshts/grizzlyhair.htm

In regards to Cougars there are an estimated 2500 animals in WA. See the following link.

http://www.wa.gov/wdfw/wlm/game/cougbear.htm

In the same link, they mention "an increase in the state's cougar and black bear populations," as a possible contributing factor to human contact with the animals.

Wolves are expected to re-introduce themselves in the next few years due to migration from the Idaho re-introduction. A wolf has been tracked into Eastern Oregon several times in the past few years. It's on a matter of time for Washington. See the following link:

http://www.wa.gov/wdfw/factshts/graywolf.htm

Salmon: Huge runs, HUGE RUNS!. I've lived in Oregon most of my life. These are the largest runs of my life. From the WDFW, "biologists are forecasting a bumper-crop of fall chinook salmon that could be one of the largest returns of the past half-century". Sockeye and Coho run are lower from 2001 however. See the link:

http://www.wa.gov/wdfw/do/newreal/mar0102b.htm

The truth is that it seems that Eastern Pacific Ocean conditions are by far the biggest influence on Salmon. Smaller El Nino's and bigger salmon runs.

As far as Elk and Blacktail, here in the Portland Metro Area (SW section)I see black tail every day. Usually within site of the Intel Jones Farm and Hawthorn Farm sites. I have also seen Elk along side Hwy 26 outside my office window. This is a fairly dense (don't get me started on Metro urban densisty plans) area, as well.

I will let you browse through following links to see about elk and blacktail herds:

[URL=http://find-it.wa.gov/search.asp?cat1=1&opr1=1&PostFlag=1&nb=0&as=0&tid=0&Search.x=28&Search.y=12&directory=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wa.gov%2Fwdfw%2F&val1=elk+AND+Population+AND+@doca ddres]http://find-it.wa.gov/search.asp?cat1=1&opr1=1&PostFlag=1&nb=0&as=0&tid=0&Search.x=28&Search.y=12&directory=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wa.gov%2Fwdfw2F&val1=elk+AND+Population+AND+@doca ddres[/URL] s+http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wa.gov%2Fwdfw%2F+AND+@docaddress+http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wa.gov%2Fwdfw%2F

[URL=http://find-it.wa.gov/search.asp?val1=deer+AND+Population+AND+@docaddress+http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wa.gov%2Fwdfw%2F+AND+@docaddress+http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wa.gov%2Fwdfw%2F&cat1=1&opr1=3&pos tFlag]http://find-it.wa.gov/search.asp?val1=deer+AND+Population+AND+@docaddress+http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wa.gov%2Fwdfw%2F+AND+@docaddress+http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wa.gov%2Fwdfw%2F&cat1=1&opr1=3&po stFlag[/URL] =1&nb=0&as=0&tid=0

-Steve

[This message has been edited by Steve (edited 03-31-2002).]

WTF! if thats true kill all wolves, elk and bison are 2 of the most beautiful animals on the planet. we cant let them go away like that.

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Hunt Smart, Hunt Safe

You got it, JohnTheGreek, let's give them something to really rant about. Might as well bring back the dire wolf, also. -F.

quote:

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Originally posted by JohnTheGreek:
Boy, you guys think you got problems with the Wolf . . . just wait til some of us on this board reintroduce the Sabre tooth cats and Mammoths that we want to hunt so bad. . . But that's another thread.

JohnTheGreek

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