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Having been raised on a big desert ranch in the Big Bend Country of West Texas, mostly incredibly rough rim rock country we took 45 hunters a year who killed 100% every year..We hunted horseback for the most part, except for those who preferred to hunt on foot who were given a Mexican guide, or one of the kids. They would bring 300 Wbys, that never would fit in our saddle scabbards or even larger calibers, scopes like 2x16 or whatever..at least the first year, then the settled down and went to a .270 or 30-06 fwt with 4X or perhaps a 2x7 on return hunts. Smarter choice IMO. What I always noticed as a kid and later on in life is the big Mule deer bucks that were killed jumped up out of their beds at 25 to 50 yards, scared the crap out of the hunters and got missed, at least on the first shot. The Coues deer, many time never got up and let us ride by them, sometimes with in a few feet..Many we shot was from looking back behind us from time to time..The need for long range rifles has never been a requirement, its more like a sporting event for shooters, not particularly for those that love the hunt, not demeaning long range shooters if they qualify as a long range shooters, its just a different perspective on the gathering of game for the deep freeze or trophy room.. Much to my amazement I found the same hunting the high country in Idaho for big bucks, they also lay up tight most of the time, but do tend to come out at the tree line early morning and late evening..we only hunt the morning hunt as if they run in the evening by the time you get to them its dark and the deer is lost or the wolves get them.. Just a different subject that's seldom been discussed in these pages and I find it interesting.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | ||
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I have only taken two long range shots at deer. The first still hangs on my wall. Now I am a meat hunter. The second was the very last day of the season and the doe was over 400 yards laser ranged. I got both deer, but as a practice, I don't need to shoot long range. For the last part, I agree, I do not shoot a deer after 4:00 just in case I need to track it. The areas I hunt are heavy with coyotes and I want to be able to bring the meat home. No amount of coyote hunting seems to help. I found a spot where the deer cross at about 9:00AM and again at about 3:00PM. Both work for me. Larry "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading" -- Thomas Jefferson | |||
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Long Range shooting, if the hunter is comfortable/capable, I have no problem. Hunting late in the day, I have mixed feelings about, because of the possibility of losing an animal. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Back in the mid 60's when I was shooting LOTS of pr/dogs every year with the '06 I was pretty hot shit with it. F & BIL were on the N hillside, I was alone on the S side of a draw that ran down within sight at least 800 yards. Turned out they were both waving at me and I hadn't seen them. This is oak brush 4-7' tall and fairly thick. I rounded a bush and I don't believe over 5 or 6 feet from me a nice 4pt muley jumped up and ran like his ass was afire. Like many mulies do. He stopped to see what tried to step on him at what we figured was all of 500yds down the canyon. By then I was sitting ready for him to stop. When he did, broadside with head looking back I fired what felt good and nailed him first shot. The other guys couldn't believe I'd made such a shot. Practice and knowing your gun and ammo can pay off at such times. The only other long shot I've made was on a running antelope with a 7mmag 150gr. I said: "That's too damned far" Dad told me: "you've got a fast flat shooting gun give it a try". I rested over a fence post with my hand under the gun for cushion and fired. The buck was quartering away about half throttle. Bullet hit above the flank and out the same shoulder. Really bowled him over end for end. I felt more surprised than the buck did. I hadn't shot but one muley buck at 200yds with the gun yet. My uncle measured it with his truck speedometer and said it was 600 yds from the post to the buck. He'd know better then than I did, but it was a mighty long shot. And the only one the three of us got that season. So far I've made 3 one shot kills with it. Never did get a shot at elk when carrying it. Mighty rare to make such shots in front of witnesses. Both of those had two watching. I haven't hunted in 5 yrs now due to health problems and haven't shot very much even at paper during this time. I sure wouldn't take a shot over 250-300yds now until I get more shooting time in again. George "Gun Control is NOT about Guns' "It's about Control!!" Join the NRA today!" LM: NRA, DAV, George L. Dwight | |||
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This thread gets reborn every couple of months. I am a long range shooting competitor. I do ok on targets of steel and paper. Not quite sure what my max would be on a trophy animal. I have killed a baboon on a full gallop across amount at over 400 meters. Several pronghorns have been killed at over 400 meters in the old days. With my current equipment and knowledge I'd venture to say I'd have no problem with 1000 yards with the right wind. Would I do it? I doubt it. | |||
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Long range can be relative to where you hunt. Here in the Northwood's a 100 yards can look like a long ways. Out in open west a 1000 yards can look close. until you range it. Many times I had a first timer out west say lets hike over there. I would then tell them over there was a few miles. All almost to the one would say no way. Get the maps and the GPS out. Wow it is. A laser range finder really helps one sort it out. The longest shot I made on a deer I made here was right around 300 yards. The longest shot I tried and made out west on a deer was a measure 305 yards. The closest was right around 10 feet I have a private 700 yard range under the right conditions with the right rifle, rest ect ect. I would be very sure of placing first round hits. I like them a lot closer. A standing broad side buck at 50 yards with a rest is fine with me. I have nothing to prove except a dead deer in the freezer. | |||
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Banging mature mule deer bucks at long range will be the demise of either the mature segment of the herd or tag numbers. 700+ yards is starting to become way to common. Those high country bucks just don't stand a chance. As LR hunting is just taking off. I have jumped so many mature bucks out of their beds at 20 yards or less. It sure is fun when that happens. Bang steel at 1000 yards, not critters. | |||
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This is simply another of those divisive issues that is only going to have a negative effect on the future of hunting. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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MC: I have been saying that for a while...taken to the extreme, suppose someone duplicates the DARPA 50 cal EXACTO round - you can't miss. Every shot is a kill, which means tags go way down. But at the end of the day, it would really be just shooting. http://www.darpa.mil/news-events/2015-04-27 | |||
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Agree 100% with MC!!! | |||
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It's great to see this thread come up again and again so the same old faces can bash any distance that they consider "long range", insert YOUR maximum ethical distance here______ then proceed to bash anyone who's skill set or opinion differs and call them unethical, "not a real hunter", or whatever you prefer. | |||
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Like many, I prefer to get close and make a sure shot. However, on a couple of occasions, the only way to make the shot was to stretch the barrel of my old M70 .308 out to 300 yards (south Dakota cross canyon mule deer) and 400 yards (early morning feeding bottomland Texas buck). Most of the deer, antelope, hogs, buffalo, bison, exotics etc. taken have been less than 100 yards. NRA Life Benefactor Member, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center,Android Reloading Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/ | |||
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Isn't there a fundamental difference between taking a shot at an animal out of necessity and purposely setting up to take a shot that is not really necessary? Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Snellstrom: There will be a point at which technology really does make missing highly unlikely. Right now, the wind is really the only thing holding anyone back from killing stuff at 1000 yards, but if you have a place to practice (ideally multiple places so you don't get "used to" the same range conditions) you can get quite good. Past 1000 yards TOF become a real issue; doesn't matter how good you are if the deer can move while the bullet is in the air. Did you watch the DARPA movie I posted? This is obviously not available to the general public, but what if it was? Should we allow it? What if someone invents a hand held laser powerful enough to kill a deer...should we allow that? | |||
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Not really. With very few exceptions there are no shots at animals out of "necessity". Starvation or self defense are among the few. I suppose trying to stop a wounded animal would be another. It's just like people hunting doves, ducks, etc with small gauges. They are doing it mostly for the challenge and, without doubt, they will wound and lose more birds than if they had used a larger ga with more shot. Same with arrows, more difficult and more game lost and wounded per hunter. Today, again with almost no exceptions, because the government will feed the hungry, hunting is a sport and killing something is the end goal for almost everyone. Within legality, how someone practices and achieves the kill is up to their ethics. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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I like to shoot things up close. The closer the better. On the other hand , if it is the only chance I am going to get, I am not opposed to long shots. Knowing the distance and where ones gun shoots at that distance plus a good rest is all it takes. It isn't that hard out to say 500-600'yards. It becomes more difficult after that. | |||
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tech will make missing rare indeed, but it sure as hell will make wounding a real problem.. Ive always said a really good shot at long range will wound more deer than a bad shot..A bad shot misses, a good shot wounds at long range..400 yards is a max shot under ideal conditions on game for a great rifle shot. Those long range shoters (1000 plus) never mention the shots that went astray and wounded an animal,usually wind btw and in many cases they don't even know it, Ive seen this more than a few times and to the point that I would no allow the hunters on my ranch to use that kind of firearm or hunting technique and depending on the shooter I would set a range for my guides to adhere to at the bench rest...I figure the option to hunt ith me was on my terms...It was all private land and I felt I owed the deer that much since they greatly added to my yearly ranching income. In the beginning I advise them if you draw blood you pay, they whined like a snake bit dog in every case. so I fixed the problem. My regular hunters who had a good excuse got to shoot another deer if we couldn't retrieve it...when a deer is shot at 1000 yards to 2000 yards and runs, in many cases its extremely hard to get there as a rule and recovery seems much harder, so we just quit the long range option. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Since there seems to be some confusion over my above comment, to attempt to clarify my thoughts, for me, a shot of necessity is one where an animal(s) that have been being hunted, is located at a range right at or slightly beyond the actual known abilities of the hunter. A bighorn sheep at 500 yards, a bull elk at 550, etc. etc. etc., could be a situation where the animal in question presents itself for the shot on the last day of the hunt. Or where the animal is in a location where it is that one shot, or the animal walks/runs away with no hope or realistic chance of getting a shot. Yes, it is iffy, but it is up to the hunter themselves to decide and live with their choice. To ME, there is a fundamental difference between a hunter taking that type shot, and a shooter going out with the intentions of only taking a shot at an animal at an extended range, 500 yards plus. To me there is a clear separation between taking a chance on making a shot that is on the margin of the shooters abilities, and purposely turning a hunt into basically an act to emulate a military sniper. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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I respectfully suggest anyone interested in long range hunting at least read "Hit Probability for Hunting ,Chapter 15, (page 261 in the 2009 edition) of Bryan Litz's book Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting. This should give you a foundation for determining an ethical distance for shots at game animals. Now, you may disagree with Mr. Litz's methodology, if so, please be so kind to post your qualifications that exceed Mr. Litz's in this field. I for one would be very impressed. I would imagine that the ethical question here is: At what distance is a (whatever percentage you would care to argue about) or less probability of a hit to the vital organs acceptable? | |||
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Paul that was well thought out but you are missing the point, this very topic has been beat to death on this forum by the very same people contributing now. You've presented facts to them by a published and accredited source, sorry that's not acceptable here. THESE experts will comment about the longest shot they have ever "winged" at a game animal and determine that none of the rest of us should attempt that and definitely there is never a reason to shoot any further and if you do "you are not hunting merely shooting" and a variety of other negative comments. Some of these "EXPERTS" limit that to 300 yards or so and in all their years of experience they know that a shot any further is irresponsible and you should never attempt it and that "you can always get closer". So thanks anyways Paul but your facts will be nullified and sanctimoniously dismissed with the wave of a hand because all that really matters is what these experts believe your limits should be. | |||
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 Silly me. I forgot, you're not only entitled to your own opinion, you are entitled to your own facts. Little antidotal but illustrative story illustrating the central problem with long range shooting: I shoot at a range in a town infamous for it windy conditions. The field of fire has berms, little hills and hidden valleys that cause some interesting wind conditions almost any day you would care to try your hand at the targets at 550 yds. On a rare, nearly windless day I shot my best group at 550 yds. Sub-MOA. So, the next weekend I was full of confidence. It was rather windy, not consistent wind mind you, but very strong, erratic and gusty. Same load, same rifle, same exact distance. The group was in no way inspiring being several hundred percent larger than the "best" I shot there just a week before. A little walk down range with an anemometer proved informative, wind speed over the distance varied from 0 to 25mph at several points along the way. Wind direction was also disturbingly changeable if only to a small degree. Very much like hunting the plains of eastern Montana. So, for me, the first ethical question is are conditions favorable to insure a first shot, vital hit? If not, stalk closer, if possible, otherwise enjoy looking at the nice deer, try again another day. Have I killed deer at over 500yds. Yes, clean one shot kills under good conditions are no problem. I've also been in conditions so bad that a first shot at 200yds was for me, just too marginal. No one is going to starve to death if you don't come home with venison tonight and no amount of money you spent on a hunt justifies taking a shot you know or should know is marginal at best. | |||
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Just an observation, nothing more, everyone's mileage will vary. I may be totally wrong here, if so I am fairly sure that Mr. Atkinson will be along to correct my mistake. To me, I feel the OP was/is intended to bring attention to the Long Range hunting/shooting concept that has developed a following around the world, and there is a difference on several levels between purposely setting up to take shots at game animals at ranges beyond what a normally equipped hunter would take in firld conditions. I am probably wrong, but I feel that most of us with hunting experience know full well our personal limitations and those of our equipment. I feel that most of us have made choices on shots at game that we either were proud of or regretted, I know I have and do not think that I am in that boat alone. For some of us, it is the base concept of purposely equipping and setting up to shoot animals at 800 or 1000 yards or farther that is troubling. As far as I am concerned, if someone wants to take such shots at coyotes or prairie dogs at such ranges, Go For It, I have no objections to that, especially when it comes to coyotes! To practise the same type tactics on deer or elk or pronghorn seems wrong in my concepts of what hunting is supposed to be. Our goal I thought was to make as quick/clean a humane death as possible with the first shot. Am I totally wrong in believing that each yard or hundred yards of distance from muzzle to target, especially a living/breathing/moving target, decreases the odds of making that quick/clean/humane kill with the first shot? Also, am I wrong in believing that it is NOT the people that expend the time or funds that perfect their ability to consistently make such kills, but those that attempt such feats without the time/effort/monetary expenditure to have or develop that level of ability that are causing the concerns some of us are expressing? Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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As usual great post. If you get away from the 30-06 at under 200 yards model, you are pretty much doing more than is necessary to fulfil your ego. I am totally ok with that. Here in Germany it is pretty much the 30-06 at under 200 yards model. Like Gatogordo said, you are going to lose more game. We can get rid of bowhunting, blackpowder, shotgun, handgun and anything that isn't the 200 yards max, and a mid-range cartridge 30-06, 280, 7mm Magn, 300, 8x57, 338, 9,3x62 and so on. But why would we do that? | |||
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Dave, I think what you have most here is the "Old-School" guys failing to recognize, know or really have any "actual" experience with today's shooting / hunting technology! I'll be the first to admit - I am NOT a long range hunter/shooter myself. I did shoot a Stone Ram in the Yukon a few years ago at 531 yards - otherwise I can rarely think of an animal I have personally killed over 300 yards. Just personal preference, as I truly enjoy the "Hunt / Pursuit" - and exactly why I am doing more bow hunting these days. I don't have the long-range turret / scope set up and dialed in to different distances like a lot of guys do, even though the gun and scope I have certainly will do so. However, especially in the past 5 - 7 years. Some of the equipment my clients have and bring on their hunts, is truly amazing! 400 - 600 yard shots are no longer un-doable or even un-common across the wide open west, or in the sheep country of the north. The technology has made it routinely common, and not difficult to do successfully. The boys at the FTW ranch literally had me hitting 500 - 700 yard targets with a 2.5 - 10 x 56mm scope and NO turrets (just elevation lines in the scope) within 30 minutes on their ranges!!! If I can do that with my set up, the true long range setups can do it with ease!!!! The "too much wounding" concern is just that, another "old school" concern - based on little personal knowledge / experience with today's long range hunting set ups. I watch these guys who really are not "hunter / killers", confidently shooting and killing animals at 500 Yards plus, on a frequent basis. All because of the setup / technology, and just a little bit of practice. Give em the correct range, and a minute of so to get prepared - and its all over but the picture taking! Animals aren't running off wounded, in fact I see less of that now - as the technology has taken most of the guess work out of the equation, even at 300 yards (a distance most do not consider unreasonable, but certainly not a chip shot either) Now of course many of these setups are not exactly straight off the rack stuff, nor is it cheap! But to insinuate that its not ethical or practical in today's hunting world - is to simply have little to no experience with this high-tech equipment, nor ever have put it to use personally!!! Long range shooting may not be what I really enjoy about hunting, but personal (in the field) experience has shown me nowadays that the benefits definitely out weight the liabilities. | |||
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It always, always depends on the wind. It's always the one thing that can make or break a LR shot. Ever wonder why LR benchrest guys use wind flags all the way down the lane? It is very difficult to dope the wind correctly in wind (I've spend time with David Tubb on this very subject, and he's as good as it gets at this) As I've posted before, I've also had the privilege to watch first hand the world foremost sniper trainer in the TX Panhandle and his "guys" shoot. They come from all over the world to train there, including our elite forces here in the US. When the wind is gusting/swirling/unpredictable these guys cannot hit their targets on the first shot every time. Since these guys cannot, there is no way the average hunter can, period, in these conditions. When there is little to no wind, it becomes easy. I've seen these same guys kill prarie dogs at 1000 meters. An ethical hunter should know his equipment intimately, and know when to shoot and when to get closer. I'm like Aaron....I love the thrill of getting as close as I can. I leave the sniping to others. | |||
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I haven't shot LR benchrest in 10 years, but back then in Tucson we only had one wind flag on the 1000 yd range. When the wind would shift somewhere we didn't catch, everyone's shots would to drift. They would drift enough to ruin your group and score but would likely stay in the vitals of a deer. That said, we had a decent idea of what the wind was doing generally because we shot sighters before every round. A proper long range hunting bullet has a much higher BC than a match winning 1K BR bullet so the hunting bullet is even more forgiving of wind. That said, the LR gys I know rarely miss a long range shot and only take shots in good conditions form a very stable position, with a spotter. | |||
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Aaron: If I recall correctly, you missed the first shot at the sheep. You took the feedback from the guide and nailed it the second time. Apply the same logic to the FTW ranch: you shoot once, misread the wind (or overshoot/undershoot, etc), you correct, and bingo, you hit the target. You shoot 8 more times, hitting it every time. Based only this data set, your overall probability of hitting is 90 percent, but your probability of hitting the first shot is zero. Now, if the wind is gusting, then maybe you get a better idea of your ability to dope the wind, but I have found even in a gusty wind, the odds of me getting the second shot on if I miss the first time is almost 100 percent. Bryan Litz's WEZ models are really interesting, and the idea is very similar to what I have been saying for quite some time - your bullets don't travel in a straight line: If you can only shoot a ten inch group at 1000 yards, you need to call the wind EXACTLY right or you risk missing a ten inch diameter target. Same logic applies to MV; a rifle that shoots 1 MOA (at 100 yards) with a 5 fps ES can have lower vertical dispersion at 1000 yards than a 1/4 MOA rifle with with a 50 fps ES. I shoot at 500 yards at least once a week at the local range by my house. However, there is a flag at 200 that makes it a breeze (pun intended) to hit within five inches. That range has mountains one two sides and a berm on the other. After shooting at this range so much, I can look at that flag and nail it every time, even shooting sitting with a bipod and a lowly .308. My point is, when you only have one range on which to practice, you get to know exactly how to hold - especially if you have a wind flag. When I really want to practice at long range, I go to the desert where there are no wind flags, the terrain differs depending on where I shoot, etc. And even then, only the first shot counts. Paul's point is there is a range at which your probability of missing increases substantially. I could not agree more. | |||
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Yes sir you are right I missed the first shot on that ram at 530 yards, made the adjustment and hit him with the next two shots. Windage was not the issue, I simply needed to hold just a bit higher. But remember, I didn't have "dope" on my gun/scope, I had to make a guess on the first shot. Yet, if I had the full technology that these LR guns / shooters have nowadays, chances are I would not have missed at all. I shot at that distance only because it was at the end of the hunt, we had NO WAY to get closer, and he was a huge ram. I felt confident I would get him, but I told the guide to call out my shots so I can adjust if necessary. That was one instance where the correct / new technology would have most likely eliminated the 1st miss. I agree, there's a point of diminishing return with this LR shooting - hunting stuff. The further the distance, the greater margin for error. Like I say, I don't care for it personally - its not for me. All I can say is having a lot of experience with multiple - different hunters / shooters over the past few years using this technology, the results have been more successful and less wounding of game, than what I experienced 15 - 25 years ago as a big game guide. I hunt a lot, but I've guided a whole lot more over the past 25 years. All I know is, I am impressed with the ability to shoot / kill now by the average hunter. I'm certain the technology has played a big part in that success. | |||
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Just some thoughts to ponder. 1. What actually constitutes the "Average" hunter. 2. How many "Hunters" will attempt to emulate the "Long Range" results of others, without putting in the time or obtaining the right type of equipment? 3. What will be the overall perception among hunters/non-hunters, NOT Anti's, concerning the shift from the concept of hunters working to get close and insure quick/clean kills to the practise of emulating military snipers. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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I've made a small number of 300+ yard shots, but would rather not take them. The last ten years' antelopes were all shot at under 100 yards and dropped inside of 50 yards from where they were hit. It's kind of a waste of a 6mm-284... TomP Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right. Carl Schurz (1829 - 1906) | |||
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To each their own, I simply feel that this subject is one of those that is merely going to create another division among hunters in general. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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It all comes down to one's definition of long range. To me it is 600 yards as the grey area and over 700 as the sure deal LR. It also plays a part of what conditions-- a 1,000 yard shot over a grain field, where the hunter can drive out to check is much different than a 1,000 yard shot on public land in the mtns, where the hunter might have to hike 2,000 vertical feet to check if he missed. Private land deer hunts are much different than public lands. How do you all feel about someone who is 700 yards from the critter, but they back up to 1000? Or what about the guy who sets up his steel table and shoots at over 1,500 yards? Is it ok for someone to shoot 1000+ yards over the top of another hunter who is 600 yards closer the animal? I've personally seen or been involved with those situations. In the end, I'll stand by my first post. When talking public land mule deer, long range sniping (far outside the detection of the quarry) will lead to less critters which leads to less tags. LR capabilities are becoming much more attainable for many more hunters. Private land whitetail hunters usually see these issues different from public land mule deer hunters. | |||
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A different perspective: With today's technology, what was once an extremely long shot is no longer an extremely long shot but I daresay that not a whole lot of modern hunters, after wounding a animal at an extended range that runs off can even find where the animal was hit much less track or spoor it if they do luck up on the spot. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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Those are the aspects that are not supposed to be considered. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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I see what you are trying to say, you guys are assuming that anyone who shoots further than you approve is completely devoid of ethical hunting behavior and doesn't have morals enough or skills to track their prey, I get it. The view must be wonderful from up on your high horses. | |||
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My thoughts on this issue. 1. It is seen as a rich man's (us versus them) problem, as you can spend some coin and have the technology to shoot long range (it takes more than that, it takes knowledge, a lot of people don't have that). You can pay for the knowledge through some sort of long range school, or invest a ton of time in the shooting and judicial gathering of data to earn it. 2. One can not just adjust their windage based on 100 yards group they have. You have to live someplace with the ability to shoot long range, most people don't have rifle ranges over 250 yards. Data must be proven. 3. You must be able to dope wind, and in most cases not shoot because of the wind. The inventor of the 338 Edge Shawn Carlock spends a lot of time working on getting good wind. He only hunts elk on days where the wind works for long range. 4. The scope is the final deciding factor in wether or not you can shoot long range. You must have some sort of turrets, laser, or reticle system, and prove that system at those ranges. There are lots of options out there from about $850 and up that will work. T 5. You must have a laser range finder to ensure accuracy instead of a guess on ranges. F-Class, PRS and long range shooting has been a hobby of mine since 2010. In Germany (where I live) it isn't possible to get into it. I think most people are smart enough to figure out the basics of long range with practice and knowledge. It takes a financial and time committment, like anything else. | |||
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No Sir you really do not see what people are saying. 1. I do not expect ANYONE to hold themselves to my ethical standards, nor do I expect them to hold me to theirs. 2. From experience, there are a lot of folks that hunt and are excellent shots out to ranges I will usually pass on, but, if whatever they are shooting at does not fall DRT they in many cases assume they missed and do not even go look to see if they hit the animal. 3. I base my opinions on personal experiences as both a hunter and a guide. My concerns have nothing to do with those that spend the time, effort, energy and $$$$$$ to put together the necessary equipment and then learn/develop the necessary skills to be able to make such shots. My concern is with those that have more $$$$ and ego than brains, that will go out and put a rig together and then run out and start slinging bullets across the landscape, without taking the time to develop the necessary skill/ability to make such shots. I never expect anyone to adhere to my personal ethics nor do I want them to expect that I will adhere to theirs. I do believe that a person should gain the necessary levels of skill/knowledge and obtain the necessary equipment that gives the level of performance necessary to make such shots, before going out and trying it. I really have a hard time understanding how simply wanting people to gain the skills/knowledge/ability and obtain the proper equipment to make such shots is a "Bad" thing! Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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I think MC's point is a legitimate debate; if technology continues to improve, what if at some point you are guaranteed not to miss? Success might go way up, which means less tags. Personally, most long range stuff is pretty high success already, so maybe that is not an issue. The other issue is just finding what you shot. When I go "rock shooting" in AZ I can normally see my rock splash, but it is amazing how often I hike to that rock, especially when over 1000 yards, and I have a hard time finding it - the terrain looks a lot different once you are there. I suspect rangefinders will soon have a feature that ranges to the object, uses an internal compass and GPS, and then helps you walk to the target location. | |||
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AZ makes a good point, I can't tell you the number of times a hunter has come to the house and said he couldn't recover a deer he shot, even some experienced hunters so I send a Mexican to help find or track the deer and in many if not most the deer is about right were it was shot. The terrain can change dramatically when you get there, and the further the shot the more difficult, particulary in Mesquite, Sage, or Greasewood..Ive seen this happen even in grass with Pronghorns..About all I can suggest is mark you kill by a bush or whatever is different, that's always worked for me but on a few occasions it had a degree of difficulty as anyone can tell you.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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