......that we collectively haven't shot enough animals with these two projectiles to draw any sort of solid conclusions about their true worth as big game bullets. It takes time and experience for any bullet to establish a reputation -- good or bad -- and based on the responses we've had so far about these two bullets on the African Forum as well as this one, that much is readily apparent. So far, all I've personally shot with either one of them is paper, plywood, and dirt!

So in the interest of science, as well as for the fun of it, I've decided to devote my two elk hunts this season to Nosler Accu Bonds. My 338 Win. Mag. has been shooting 225 gr. ABs into some amazingly tight groups, down into the .300s", and since I have my rifle sighted-in for 250 yds. and perfectly zeroed, I'm going to leave the 300 Win. Mag. at home and take the 338 Win. Mag. instead this season on these elk hunts.

I hope I don't come to regret it !

AD

Good luck Allen! I hope you have better success with them than my neighbor did. He just got back from a black bear hunt using a 338 WinMag and accubonds. On a going away shot at ~30 yds, he hit the top of the pelvis and the bullet exploded. He couldn't even find shrapnel inside, and the bullet did not exit.

It did wreck the pelvis and stopped the bear from leaving, but the way the bullet came apart so completely left a bad taste in his mouth. I am hoping this is a fluke, but will reserve judgement until they have been in use for a while.

That does NOT sound good!

AD

there are not many proj that will end up in one peice when HEAVEY bone is hit at close range....my 180 gn nosler partitions from the 06 were loosing there cores when i shot brumbies last year, and i consider both the nosler partition a better all round proj than both the ACCUBOND and INTERBOND
Daniel

Hey AD- I have a thought or two on the new bullets. (go wonder that eh!)

My thoughts are it will be interesting to hear your thoughts and see what you experience. It will be a start, and may give you a gut feel or two better than you have now. Of course ideally you'd be able to see them work on a variety of game. From close to far etc you know what I mean.

I worked in retail sporting goods the last 3 years (but that is whole nother story), I heard a few things hear and there about these bullets.

I would like to qualify this with I have not taken a lick of game with either the Accu or the IB. Not sure I ever will either, but you never know.

I kind of feel like they are the preppy bullet of the day, sort of like the WSM's are the preppy rounds of the day. By this I mean they will work, I just don't feel like they will work as good as the old guard. And imagine this but the older I get the more I come to like the old tried and true. Who'd of thunk that.

Here is what my gut tells me and this is from the gut as well as from hearing reports from quite a few hunters at the shop.

I believe they will work for about 97% of what you could conceiveably ask them to do. Where as I believe a hard bullet from the old guard (Barnes,Noz,SAF,TB) will do you good for 99% of the time. I also believe that the standard old head like Sierra, Horn, Speer, NBT will do you good for about 95% of the time.

I think that if you take a tough angle shot at fairly close range with these bullets that you'll most likely get your bull. It may be a bit of a rodeo whereas with the old guard I don't believe it would be. But, I do believe they will get it done, albeit eventually. I do believe that slower speeds and longer ranges will be a friend to them. I think at the closer ranges they will push around enough bone etc to allow you to recover the game. For what it is worth I also believe this about the standard old bullets as well. YOu jsut may not have an exit hole, and that I've come more and more to like and appreciate.

I believe that in rounds that are the hyper rounds (RUM and the like) that a person is more apt to have issues. A buddy of mine from town took the 180 Accu and his 300 RUM across the pond and found that they worked and he got his game. But he came back and said no mas, and went back to the old guard of bullet for future use.

Guess this isn't telling you much that you're probably not surmising already.

Lastly I am sure that if you're chance comes and you rib shoot the critters that it will work quite well. But, to me I've found this to be the same as with the standard old bullets as well. I've seen more than a few elk taken with 340 and the 200 NBT, they worked and quite well. That said I do carry a hard bullet (210 TX) in my 340 when I go to the hill. Why mainly because of peace of mind and I want what I would call a 99% bullet.

Good luck to ya, sorry to chase the rabbit here so long.

Gotta go and sell some dirt.

MD

If you haven't seen reports of the use of the Accubond and Interbond on game you are reading the wrong forum. There has been two years of discussion on the 24HRCampfire.

AD, you sound like a good shot, and you've got your gun shooting very well. You have confidence. Hit those elk just behind the shoulder - they'll go down down quickly. If you nick the spine, they'll drop in their tracks.

I've killed 5 bulls with 180 gr. NBTs, but I always get that bullet into the chest cavity where the heart and lungs and great vessls lie. Getting into the chest is not that tough! Elk are not cap buffalo - a beast 2.5 times their size.

Jackfish, I did read the 24-report on Accu Bonds, but I guess I'm just one of those guys who has to use a bullet myself before I feel confident in my opinion of it.

I'm still going ahead with my plan to use the 225 ABs this season, and if they work satisfactorily, I'll take the same rifle and load to Zimbabwe next season as well, along with my 375 H&H loaded with Winchester Fail-Safe ammo -- just in case!

One of my other friends is also taking his 338 Win. Mag. with 225 ABs on our safari next season, and between us we will likely shoot a large number of animals, including cats.

If I have a sour elk experience with these bullets this season, they won't be going to Africa, that's for certain........

AD

I hope they work out for you because they shoot great in my 338 and I want to use them on a couple of upcoming hunts.

Hi Allen!

Far be it from me to talk you out of the 225 AB's... but!

You should really give the 210 TSX or 225 TSX's a try if you have time. Seat them .050" off the lands. In my 30-06 they're wonderfully accurate producing sub moa at 200 yards. Yesterday I shot them at ranges out to 400 yards in preperation for the fall. It had recently rained and the loamy soil behind the 400 yard target was fairly moist and lose (not much resistance). I recovered the 168 TSX pictured below at 410 yards. It hit the dirt around 2,075 fps. measures .605" dia and weigh's 167.7 gr.s (guess you could call that 100 weight retention - smile- ). Personally I wouldn't risk the AB's on an expensive elk hunt when I'm positive the 210 TSX will out penetrate it and shoot flatter... well, my thought's anyway!

AD,

Accubond's are excellent.

The elk’s neck was a massive chunk of muscle and bone, because of the angel the bullet crossed diagonal throughout the middle of the neck, the measured distance of penetration 23.4 inch and a 2 inch exit hole.

In December 2004, I shot 7 Hogs – 2 Red Stags and 1 elk, all one shot kills with the same Cal and ammo, full penetration; I was unable to recover a bullet.



Success,
Roland

I am also using AB's in my hunting this year. Antelope, deer and elk will all be shot with 160gr AB's from a 7 mag. Might be a touch too big for the speed goats but I figure a good shot is going to be much more important and having lots of good practice with the ons size will help.

AD, good luck on your hunts. I will be looking fwd to your reports.

I have 2 experiences with AB bullets, witness and personal:

45 yards. 270 Win, 140 AB, Mulie. Neck shot quartering to the shooter. Buck falls down like he was struck with a hammer. Hunters walk up and buck jumps up and runs. Tracked for 1+ mile. Never recovered the buck.

Antelope. 300 RUM. 200 Accubond. Distance, less than 200. Shoulder shot (square in shoulder). The most dramatic drop of an animal I've seen. The buck never wiggled, rolled, flinched. Just fell and died. Pass through. Wound channel was impressive.

Testimonials of some close friends:

Worked 100% of the time on deer sized game and 1 elk in WY in various calibers.

My conclusions as of today. The bigger the cal/bullet (as in your case), the better. But, I still think the TSX outshines the AB. I honestly believe that if you punch an elk with your 338/AB combo, you will be very satisfied. I also believe the AB works better at longer distances, (400 yards).

Allen, take the .338. Brad can be a bit dillusional at times. Barnes TSX really! Actually come to think of it, that's what I'm shooting this year. Anyway, I'm curious about their performance and for goodness sake hit bone with the darn things. See what they're really made of.

Besides, I think that .338 of yours would look awful nice propped up against a B & C Bull Elk.

Chuck

quote:

Brad can be a bit dillusional at times.

Hey, I resemble that remark!

As you know I am looking foward to your report as well. I may be trying the Interbonds in my 30-06 this year, if I find a good load quickly.

Placement is always the key, and I don't think less than 100% weight retention is a bad thing; if the bullet does "Bad Things" while it is loosing that weight!

AD, I have shot quite a few head of game with the Accubonds and have never had anything short of great performance. I have been and am an NP fan, but I like new stuff too, and the AB's proved very accurate for me. I have shot several 200 plus pound whitetails, some through both shoulders, complete pass throughs with utter devastation on the off shoulder. No recovered bullets on over 40 kills, all pass throughs.

The toughest animals I suppose I have shot are some 300 pound plus Russian boars. I have yet to have a bullet not penetrate. The shots on the hogs were pretty close, say 75 yard average, a couple at less than 50.

The one elk I shot was through the boiler room, I got one rib going in, and a 50 cent piece size exit--maybe silver dollar size--and he went about one step, which I think was just him falling forward dead, instead of over sideways. I have been very impressed with the AB's so far, I could share a lot more actual experience if you want--let me know.

Good Hunting--Don

Allen, I guessed that you'd take the Accubonds out for a trial after reading some of your comments over the past couple of months- might be a great experiment.

As you are more than aware, I have a particular fondness for Accubonds (as long as they're shot on paper) As 'the_captain' mentioned above, our 180gr. Accubonds peeled back and lost most weight on Pelvic and shoulder shots, but I have no doubt that on broadside, behind the shoulder shots at longer ranges they will perform much better. While you don't want to purposely induce bullet failure, close shots on bone seem to be one of the weakest links with the Accubonds.

That being said, the .338's jacket thickness is apparently greater than those in .30 cal. This should help out with more controlled expansion. Another plus is the accuracy that you have in your rifle (I was only able to get in the .4-.5"s). They sure shoot well

I trust your comments and I look forward to your assesment of the Accubonds in action. I also look forward to hearing about that monster bull that you'll have at your side!

Cheers,
CL

I'll also be using Accubonds excusively on my hunts this year. First hunt in 2 weeks will be pronghorn with a .270 WSM and 140 Accubond at 3150 fps. I have no doubt that the bullet will exit and not be recovered, even at 400 yards !!! I'll be sure to report back.

Brad, 225 gr. Barnes TSX is another bullet I want to wring out in the 338 Win. Mag. very soon, as is the 225 gr. and 240 gr. North Fork. There are probably more new and interesting 338 bullets I want to work with right now than anything else that fits into my rifle program. So my 300 Win. Mag. might be taking a back seat for a while after this season.

One of the reasons I wanted to run with these 225 gr. Accu Bonds, particularly in NM, is because the BC (.500) is so very high. Where we're hunting, there is the distinct possibility of some long-shooting. With my AB load at an MV of 2850 fps. and the rifle sighted-in 3" high at 100 yds., zero is at 250 yds., and it's only about 3.5" low at 300.

So this load comes very close to matching the trajectory of my 300 Win. Mag. loaded with 180 gr. Nosler Partitions (BC .474) at an MV of 3050 fps., but with more bullet mass, frontal area, etc.

If it stays together ..........

AD

I wish I could have gotten 110 grain ABs to shoot well enough to try out on my recent antelope hunt. After a variety of powders and a couple seating depths in my .257 AI barrel, I just couldn't get them to settle in. My test targets looked like they'd been hit with a shotgun. I was on the verge of trying another scope until I shot last year's TSX loads and promptly knocked out their usual 3/4" group. I guess I should work with them a little more, but probably won't when I get such good results out of the triple shocks. My experimental nature will only take me so far...

Had pretty good luck with 225 grain IBs in my .338 in South African though. The 225 grain ABs shoot almost as well in my .338 as triple shocks too.

Allen-
I killed a 6 point bull 4 days ago with the 225 Accubond out of a 330 Dakota at 35 yards, 2900 fps impact velocity. Shot was quartering to, down. Bullet went in at the mane/yellow junction, through neck and 4" of spine, recovered in off side shoulder hide. Bullet weighed 141 grains, 62%. Below is a pic of the bullet. This is the second I've recovered, the other one from a mulie buck last year. Both bullets had a very wide frontal area and retained about 60%. That I'm recovering bullets at all is a concern, I think that because the AB expands so widely is why. I'm on the fence with this one. The AB shoots extremely well but I'm just not seeing the penetration that I have with other bullets (X and NPT) and would like. I may have to knuckle under and try the TSX. The kills with this bullet are dramatic but I wonder if whether a poor angle or placed shot would be better made with a bullet that exited consistantly.

Snowcat, excellent "real-world" appraisal!

Where you hunting in the early rifle season?

Brad

PS, I'd really encourage you to try the TSX's. I've found them amazingly accurate (I seat .050" off the lands). I'm 100% positive the 210 TSX will out-penetrate the 225 AB to boot!

Snowcat, that was a great report, and congratulations on your elk! That appears to be satisfactory performance, but I wouldn't want to bet against Brad's conviction that the 210 gr. TSX would penetrate deeper than the 225 gr. AB. The 210 Nosler Partition might penetrate better as well!

Chet's report about a detached bullet tip bothers me the most thus far.........

AD

The detached tip issue just about put pay to using that bullet, coupled with the valid concerns enumerated here I think I'll just stick with Partitions or TSXs. jorge

I'll throw out a plug here for the North Fork as well. My elk load this year is the 225 gr. NF in my .338. I worked up loads with the 225 AB and 210 Partition but the accuracy I get with the North Fork is simply amazing. Based on reports from here I'd like to try the TSX for comparison but I may be set on my standard all around .338 load with the NF. Hopefully in 3 weeks I'll be able to give a detailed report of how it performs on game. I'm quite comfortable that I've eliminated any bullet performance issues though.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by bowhuntrrl:
I'll also be using Accubonds excusively on my hunts this year. First hunt in 2 weeks will be pronghorn with a .270 WSM and 140 Accubond at 3150 fps. I have no doubt that the bullet will exit and not be recovered, even at 400 yards !!! I'll be sure to report back.

Hey, thats MY load! Same chambering, same bullet, same velocity!

quote:

Chet's report about a detached bullet tip bothers me the most thus far.........

Allen, that's the first time I've heard of that particular problem, so I would be thinking a magazine problem more so than the Accubond

Has it happened at the range??

Ill be using 180 gn Accubonds from an 06 for Elk this year too. After the results Ive had with the larger caliber non-bonded BT's I have a lot of confidence in the Bonded variation.

The way I look at it they are like any other bullet, their usage (placement) needs to be matched with their potential. For some folks a TSX DOES make more sense.

Does anyone else see the similarities in the Accubonds and Northforks, or am I the only one?

Glad to see so many others giving the Accubonds a go, the aftermath should be interesting to read about.

Is anyone here going to try the interbonds on Elk or plainsgame?

Allen

A lightening bolt may strike you for not using the NP's this year. You have preached more about them than anyone including myself. I'll be interested in your report.

Mark

P.S. These guys let you off easier over here than they did me on the Africa Forum when I brought up Accubonds.

quote:

Originally posted by Mark G:

quote:

Chet's report about a detached bullet tip bothers me the most thus far.........

Allen, that's the first time I've heard of that particular problem, so I would be thinking a magazine problem more so than the Accubond

Has it happened at the range??

Exactly my thoughts !!!

quote:

Originally posted by snowcat:
Allen-
I killed a 6 point bull 4 days ago with the 225 Accubond out of a 330 Dakota at 35 yards, 2900 fps impact velocity. Shot was quartering to, down. Bullet went in at the mane/yellow junction, through neck and 4" of spine, recovered in off side shoulder hide. Bullet weighed 141 grains, 62%. Below is a pic of the bullet. This is the second I've recovered, the other one from a mulie buck last year. Both bullets had a very wide frontal area and retained about 60%. That I'm recovering bullets at all is a concern, I think that because the AB expands so widely is why.

Gee, don't you think the velocity from the Dakota and the short range (35 yards) might have something to do with the big frontal area ??? Of course a bullet won't penetrate as far when it mushrooms like that. From what I see, the bullet performed perfectly. It didn't disintegrate, even at 35 yards, and it mushroomed perfectly. Nosler never claimed that they would penetrate like a Partition. Didn't you say it also went through the spine??? What more can you ask of a bullet than to stay in one piece after punishment like that??? That's surely better than the Grand Slam that I had blow up when it hit a bull elk's spine at 225 yards !!

Bowhuntrrl-
I never said or implied that the bullet in any way failed. I have had good luck so far with it on two bulls and several deer. I was simply wondering aloud whether, given the impact velocities and hunting conditions that I am dealing with, two holes are better than one. I tend to think so. I was simply reporting real world results, please check your tone.

Brad--
I was in 280. Hiked in 15 miles and went and got my pack stock once the elk was down. Pretty good system. I went back out with a friend this week and on day two we had another 50 yd shot on a 5 point (180 g Accubond, 300 WSM, pass through broadside), again about a 12 mile pack. I had many much larger bulls close while bow hunting but really like having my bull down and dealt with during Sept. Leaves alot of time to chase the mulies.

The 210 TSX was what I was thinking about. Has Barnes come out with new load data for the TSX's yet?

AccuBonds just won't hold together or penetrate like a Barnes X. I mean, you'll never get impressive penetration/weight retention like this from an AccuBond:



Recovered from moose (not mine).

I have never shot them but from what I have read not my bullet of choice. The Barnes rock so do North Fork.

JON A why is that bullet not opened up. It has the rifle grooves it hit a moose is that a solid or what.

Jon A,
Very interesting.
Details please. What calibre, at what velocity and what did it pass through?

Thanks.

So, Jon A, are you saying that the bullet pictured performed? Might as well go buy a regular fmj, it'd be much cheaper. Even though this hunting season is just starting, I've already seen 2 large elk come out of the woods from AB's. I have a problem with people dismissing tham offhand without any real-world experiance.

I was being sarcastic, Mike. In two weeks I'll be chasin' elk--loaded with AccuBonds.

The bullet above is a 338 cal 225 X launched at 2900, hitting the moose at 495 meters. That's all I know--like I said, it's not mine--I just liked the pic since so many say this could never happen.

When longer shots are possible, I'll take a bonded, platic tipped bullet any day. In addition to the fact they open up easily, the high BC's (real, not made up like some bullets) mean several hundred fps higher impact velocities. Anybody concerned with that really ought to chronograph loads at 200 or 300 yds. It can be a reall eye opener!

Apologies, Jon. It really wasn't meant to be a personal attack. It's just that so often around these boards you see posts about how bad every other bullt is, except someone's favorite. In the olden days Remy Core-locts and Win PSP's used to be able to kill things, now they just bounce off.

I'm a Nosler Partition fan. Why bother with anything else when you know the Partiton will do the job no matter what shot comes up at the last instant. The animal may suddenly turn or quarter as you fire and you boadside becomes a pelvic shot.
I know the partiton will work every time. It may not be sub MOA but it's sub Min of Elk.
Last year I shot a coyote (40#) broadside at 155 yds. The bullet was a Win psp. It never exited the chest. I would think that ANY bullet would go through the chest of a coyote. I've seen the same bullet from the same rifle completely penetrate much larger,tougher game.
Would it have blown up on the shoulder if the hide had been tougher or the range a little greater or it had struck bone? I don't want to have to consider those factors when I hunt so I use NP's if at all possible. I know the NP will shoot all the way through a wart hog or Kudu -end to end.