Does anybody know of any trophy mule deer hunts that might be available. Preferably in Utah during September. Thanks.

I got one in Alberta in November....not quite what you asked for, eh? Sorry.

Frans

Opps. I think I left out Deer in the Heading. Althought I really don't care to have a trophy mule hanging on my wall.

Donkeys John Donkeys, not mules


Bakes

I have some trophy Mule Deer and we kill two or three each year in the 208 to 235 B&C class, spreads of 40 plus inches, which is pretty good because we only take about 7 hunters....In Texas/NM on 300,000 acres of desert near Jal NM and Kermit, Texas....

Ray,is all the info for your mulie hunts on your website??
I'm going to Raton, NM this year, but would like a 'lope hunt next year...sakofan..Maybe a combo mulie/'lope??

[ 08-02-2003, 19:51: Message edited by: sakofan ]

Utah's general rifle deer hunt is in October. Tags were drawn in March. So only certain areas still have tags available. If you want to hunt Sept you will need a CMU tag.

The CMU tags are purchased from the various ranch operators. Most of whom you can find their names/numbers in the proclamation online.

Archery starts in late Aug, Muzzle load in late Sept.

[ 08-03-2003, 07:43: Message edited by: Painted Horse ]

M16
Check with John the Greek. [He is on AR] He may have some openings left on a Idaho Black Bear hunt, dates in Sept and Oct. The hunt is over bait, 2 bear limit.

Sakofan,
I don't think its on the web page as I only have about 5 antelope permits each year and three deer permits on each of the 5 ranches, I havn't had any problems selling out these spots...

I don't have any antelope left this year and may or may not have 1 or 2 mule deer permits, if so they will sell before long as folks are just now thinking mule deer and antelope...

Once you hunt with us you have the option to declare for the following year before we open the gate...That takes place Jan. 1...two mule deer hunters dropped out this year and I have not yet tried to sell those permits, unless the ranch has, and that I do not know....

His mule deer are $3500.00, Antelope are $2250. as I recall on the antelope. I sold them out months ago......

Considering the fact that old Mexico gets $10,000 for their big deer, and they no longer have the quality that we do, it just may be the best deal going, but it will get more expensive in a few years..he is just testing the waters right now...Its a hobby with the owner, Oil is his business.....

At any rate if you book far enough ahead I will try and get you a combo hunt. Give me an email when you decide and we'll work something out one way or another.

Thank you for your response, Ray.
You can count on me for at least one hunt...soon...sakofan..

I have a 3 day hunt in New Mexico, on private land, for $1850. If is fully guided, on a 35,000 acre ranch. We will take 4 hunters during the first season and 4 hunters during the second season.

There are some very good Mulies here.

E-mail me for details.

Hello to everyone. I am new to the forum. I had a friend send me a link to this specific thread and after reading what he was chuckling about I had to respond. I hope that this does not come off the wrong way and I will try to be tactful. I read a reply by Atkinson, which is what my friend wanted me to read, and I feel compelled to put my spin on this whole west Texas mule deer thing. Now I realize that Atkinson is trying to book hunts so he wants to make it sound like there are deer that will "score between 208 and 235" behind every bush. That is the farthest thing from the truth. I have hunted this country for many years, in fact my grandfather owns country in the region, and while there are some really good deer the densities are extremely low. I have hunted some of the best country in this region and it is not uncommon to go a days before seeing a deer, muchless a big buck. I saw where he had posted about hunting the Frying Pan Ranch. A very dear friend of mine used to lease the Frying Pan but gave it up because the poaching is so bad in that area. There are oil field roads all over the place and everyone and their brother has keys to those ranches as oil field jobs are about all that available in that area. These guys are killing these deer when they are most visible, during the rut. The Texas season is weeks before the rut. I hate to be a buzz killer but I used to run hunts full time, now its more of a hobby, and I always call it like I see it.
I also have issue with the statement that Sonora no longer has quality deer for $10,000. In my opinion, for what its worth, Sonora is the best place to go if you are looking for the deer of a lifetime. Trust me when I tell you that Sonora has MANY more quality deer per square mile than we have here in west Texas. I run hunts in both places although I am hunting slightly farther north of where Adkinson is talking about. I have noticed over the past few years that the trend is leaning more towards management in Mexico. The deer densities are higher in most areas of Sonora than they are in the Kermit-Jal area and there is a lot less traffic on old ranch roads in Sonora. Oh, my hunts in Sonora are a lot less than $10,000. Adkinson, I realize that you are trying to book hunts but I just hate hearing anything but the honest to God truth when it comes to this country. Hunters that hunt with me could read or hear things like this and it unfairly raises expectations and put a lot of undue stress on the outfitters and guides as well as on the hunters themselves. The hunters will figure out whats going on soon enough.

Hunt Sonora,

you come on this forum out of nowhere accusing me of making up trash and in the same breath say you don't want to offend, then you spew a bunch of old 1950 pre Fying Pan bull s--t thats been outdated for years about poaching etc..then you have a header about huntsonora and thats a bit suspecious....also most of the folks here will tell you I don't book BS hunts....

The frying pan and its ajacent ranches are now owned by Boyd Oil Company, there is no poaching, and the preditors have long been killed out, the owner has come up with a method to feed mule deer that no-one else has come up with...He produces big deer, he manages his ranches for deer and kills two or three monsters a year..Sonora has been shot out for several years by greedy money grubbing hustlers and you know that.

Frankly I think your a snake in the grass, and a no nothing back stabbing liar with an agenda. I have nothing to gain, as I can sell every deer the ranch has got, and I only pass this on to my friends on this forum, no other..

For anyone that wants to see three of the deer we shot last year or two I can send photos and some have been posted on this very forum sometime back and I have sent other out.

As to this troll, I have seen his kind come and go on this forum, he won't last long and in fact sounds very familiar...

M16,

I recommend you also check w/Rich LaRocco at AHC. Rich is based in Utah and keeps a close eye on hunting there.

http://www.hunts.net

I would check the website first, but plan on talking to Rich. (Tell him I said "hi".)

jim dodd

Ray,

"you come on this forum out of nowhere accusing me of making up trash and in the same breath say you don't want to offend" As I stated in my post, I came here to put my spin on hunting mule deer in west Texas.

"then you spew a bunch of old 1950 pre Fying Pan bull s--t thats been outdated for years about poaching etc.." My good friend hunted it just a few years ago. The deer had been hammered. There are roads everywhere and access is easy. Mule deer, especially desert mule deer, are a very fragile species that take time to rebound.

"then you have a header about huntsonora and thats a bit suspecious" Whats suspicious about my header. I have an operation that specializes in Sonora Mexico.

"there is no poaching, and the preditors have long been killed out" Show me a ranch in the desert of west Texas where there is no poaching and no predators and I'll kiss your ass.

"the owner has come up with a method to feed mule deer that no-one else has come up with" Thats one of the funniest statements I have ever heard. What in the world are you talking about? "No one else has come up with". Thats a classic.

"Sonora has been shot out for several years by greedy money grubbing hustlers and you know that"
Sonora had been hit hard and in areas it continues to be hit hard. Like west Texas, it takes time for the deer to recover. As I stated in my first post, the trend has been more towards management over the past few years. More and more landowners are seeing that the hunting, if managed properly, is a renewable resource that will continue to produce much needed revenue. One advantage we have in Sonora is that the cowboys dont carry guns, they cant even own them! Its just the opposite in west Texas.

"Frankly I think your a snake in the grass, and a no nothing back stabbing liar with an agenda" I have nothing to gain" Ask any hunter I have ever hunted with, I call it like I see it. I have no hidden agenda. My agenda is not hidden at all. I live in west Texas and drive through that area once or twice a week. While there are some great deer its a much more difficult hunt than you make it out to be.

"As to this troll, I have seen his kind come and go on this forum, he won't last long and in fact sounds very familiar... Troll? I have spent the last decade and change chasing the biggest damn mule deer I could find. You have not seen my kind yet, I assure you. As for sounding familiar, who do you think I am? I have never heard of you, much less met you.

I dont know you therefore I will not judge you. Your job is to sell hunts and thats what you're trying to do. I understand that "booking agents" do that. I have found some "booking agents" to be nothing more than arm chair quarterbacks that will tell a potential client anything to get them to book a hunt. I always enjoy hunting with the client that asks where all of the 200" mule deer are. A 200" mule deer is THE TOUGHEST BIG GAME ANIMAL TO HARVEST! If the area has produced big deer in the past I feel that is all you need to tell the clients. Ray, honestly, you make it sound like its easy to go to your spot and kill a 200" buck. Thats a slap in the face of any hunter that spends any time at all chasing these wonderful animals.

I hope that this clarifies everything for you, have a great day sir....

Hunt Sonora,
I don't know you either, I take you to be an ignorant assholes that has no name other than HuntSonora and your kind are always quick to call a man a liar,It dipects the yellow stripe that runs down your friggen back...Based on your name I'd guess you too may be a booking agent and and can't handle the competition..But all booking agents are as you describe, which shows me you colors...

Since your a good Texan I will be at the Dallas Show if you want to look me up. I will have photos there also...I will also ablidge whatever you have in mind since you seem to dislike me so much...Maybe we can entertain the clientele, hell I'm just an old man, you shouldn't have any trouble.

You have spewed your lies all over this board and you don't know come here from sick'um...I sell enough hunts world wide that I have no need to book these hunts other than I think they are the best to be offered, for the most elusive animal out there today in the USA...

BTW I was raised in West Texas, Marfa and Marathon to be specific, and when Allan Carraways father was foreman on the Frying Pan ranch in the early 50's I spent many days on that ranch...back then they had few deer, but they always had some big deer. Its the Chemise brush for your information..The neighboring ranches had big bucks also, Everybody but you knows that, and the poaching was rampant by oil field personal, today with deer as valuable as they are the whole picture has changed...I was raised on a ranch and worked on lots of them in the Big Bend where the Mule Deer are much smaller, but more nemourous. I also ranched there and had the Rosillias Ranch leased for several years, so I know a little about West Texas, and about deer hunting, I have also been and am a guide on several ranches from time to time, and I have guided much in the past.... I know enough to know you do not know as much as you profess about the area in question, You are a proven fact that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

I suggest you take your so knowledgable ass to the Midland Odessa DPS office and ask to see the Texas Mule Deer Record and yes it was poached on the Hiway in front of the Frying Pan ranch a couple of years ago. I suppose he just came out of the ground on that day. He is hanging on the wall BTW and the one we shot two years ago is even bigger than him, but is not in the book as far as I know.

We usually take two or three hunters on each ranch, go to a known location, spot two or three of these big deer, let them bed and go after them, a tracking hunt....I guarentee you we have at two or three of these bucks on each of the ranches each year with more coming up...

It is a very hard hunt and I have so stated many times on this board and to people who called me from this board.. I have said we have about a 30 to 50 percent success rate on those bucks because of hunter fitness more than anything else...I have also posted photographs of three of these deer...We do not allow lesser deer to be killed, it is strictly a trophy hunt..

Good managment and money have vastly improved the hunting on these ranches and yes, hard preditor control will change the picture..There is so much you say that shows your total lack of knowledge and yours is nothing more than a troll attack with some unknown agenda...I don't appreciate it and it is uncalled for..

....

Ray,

Help me understand your claims:

"I don't know you either, I take you to be an ignorant assholes that has no name other than HuntSonora and your kind are always quick to call a man a liar,It dipects the yellow stripe that runs down your friggen back..."

You are a real class act Ray. I have not called you names merely expressed by opinion based on my countless hours in this country chasing mule deer. For the record, my name is Drummond Lindsey, I have guided and outfitted specifically for trophy mule deer for the past 12 years. My business is Desert Trophy Hunts and my phone number is (806)543-1890. If you care to name call please have the courtesy to call me personally rather than attack me on an internet forum for expressing my opinion. I have not one time called you a liar nor have I said that there are not some great mule deer in this west Texas country.

"Since your a good Texan I will be at the Dallas Show if you want to look me up. I will have photos there also...Maybe we can entertain the clientele, hell I'm just an old man, you shouldn't have any trouble."

No thanks, I will not lower myself to your level and get into a pissing contest with you at a hunting show. I choose the people with whom I fraternize with and I choose to hang out with people that exhibit a little more class than you have exhibited here.

"You have spewed your lies all over this board and you don't know come here from sick'um..."

What?

"I sell enough hunts world wide that I have no need to book these hunts"

Sounds to me like you are a little proud of yourself. What lies have I "spewed". Do you call all people that have different opinions than you liars?

"The neighboring ranches had big bucks also, Everybody but you knows that, and the poaching was rampant by oil field personal, today with deer as valuable as they are the whole picture has changed...I have also been and am a guide on several ranches from time to time, and I have guided much in the past....

Sir, I was born and raised in this country as well. A lot has changed over the years, you are correct in the claim that other ranches have good deer as well however the country is so vast with so many roads poaching continues to be a HUGE problem down here

"I know enough to know you do not know as much as you profess about the area in question, You are a proven fact that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing."

Little knowledge? You should get into stand up comedy, this is hilarious! I have numerous friends that have hunted and still hunt this country and the consenses is that it is not getting better, if anything the publicity people like you keep giving this area has made it worse.

"We usually take two or three hunters on each ranch, go to a known location, spot two or three of these big deer, let them bed and go after them, a tracking hunt...."

This is my case in point. You state here that you will see TWO OR THREE of these big deer? You throw the 200" number around as well as 40" as if seeing a deer like this is a common occurence! Ray, you are insulting everybodys intelligence by telling us that you all will see two or three deer like this every morning. There is no place in the world where you can see 2 or 3 deer of that class in a morning on a consistant basis. This is my problem with your claims, they are absurd!

"I have also posted photographs of three of these deer..."

I have seen one of your photographs, the deer that grossed 208". I know for a fact that the hunter did not book that hunt through you nor was he guided by anyone you represent. He was self guided and booked his spot on the ranch with the landowner directly. You questioned my integrity and you are the one advertising with a photograph you had nothing to do with. I hate to be a jerk and bring that up but you really left me no choice. And you have the gall to question my integrity and call me a liar? Again, you should get into stand up.

Good managment and money have vastly improved the hunting on these ranches and yes, hard preditor control will change the picture..There is so much you say that shows your total lack of knowledge and yours is nothing more than a troll attack with some unknown agenda...I don't appreciate it and it is uncalled for..

Lack of knowledge, you might want to start getting your facts straight before you accuse others of lack of knowledge. As for an unknown agenda, your the one with the false advertising, not me! I had another outfitter use a picture of a mid 230's deer we killed in Mexico this past season and I cant stand things like this. Again, you have my phone number, If you care to call me an asshole, ignorant, liar or otherwise please have the balls to call me personally rather than do it on a website!

Have a great day sir,
Drummond Lindsey

[ 08-07-2003, 08:55: Message edited by: huntsonora ]

Drummond Lindsey,
You are a damn liar...I have nothing more to say to you...I book hunts for D.K.Boyd of Boyd Oil company and they own the ranch. The deer you refer wasn't even killed on the Frying Pan,it was killed on one of the ranch bordering the frying Pan that DK owns...so again you let your battle ship mouth overload you row boat ass.. The 233.5 B&C deer was killed on the Frying Pan. The 208 class deer was not a hunt booked by me but was booked direct through DK, so what!

I have nothing more to say to you Mr., but should we ever come face to face, we will come to tow I assure you, and I am not a person to anger easy, but you sir are a skunk of the lowest litter.......

If that deer was not booked through you then why do you have its picture on your website? It sounds to me like you have plenty of other huge deer to advertise with. When you mentioned a 208" buck you kept saying "us". Did you have anything at all to do with that deer? Just curious? Also, when did I ever imply it was killed on the Frying Pan Ranch? I knew it was not killed there. Seriously, you should use the hunters that you book to advertise with. All to often I have seen this type of thing and it drives me crazy! You call me a skunk, you call me a liar, you have called me all sorts of names yet if I were a consumer I would think that you had everything to do with that deer on your website. Its misleading Ray. I have leased ranches in the past and have had landowners give me pictures but I refuse to advertise with those photos because in my opinion its misleading and unfair to the people booking the hunts with me. I like to represent myself and not rely on the hard work of others to get ahead. I guess its all about ethics.
The picture is the least of my worries though, your claims about the number of 200"+ 40" deer amaze me! It seems to me that your just pissed because somebody that knew better called you on your claims. I said in the previous post and I will say again, THERE IS NO PLACE IN THE WORLD YOU CAN SEE 2 OR 3 200"+ 40" WIDE DEER IN ONE MORNING!!! Its insulting to anyone that has spent time chasing trophy mule deer. If you see that many big deer you would be charging $15,000 a hunt. I guarantee that DK Boyd did not get to be where he is today by not taking advantage of business opportunities when presented with them. I also guarantee that if you saw those kind of deer every day, 2 to 3 a day in fact, that you would not be charging only $3500 to $4500 dollars. If nothing else a management conscience owner/operator/booking agent would be charging at very least double that and even if he were not concerned with money would put the money right back into the "special way of feeding these deer that nobody else has come up with" and habitat improvement. I have yet to meet a rancher, much less a rancher in west Texas that would not capitalize on such an opportunity. Remember, you were the one calling me all sorts of names and acting like a raving idiot! All I have done is expressed my opinion based on my personal experiences in the area and I assure you I know what I am doing and what I am talking about. As for us ever meeting, I can only hope I never have the "honor". I cant wait to see the pictures with all of your hunters with their 40 inchers! Just remember, if it sounds too good to be true...... Again, you have my number, feel free to call or email me at huntsonora@aol.com anytime.

Again, your a real class act,
Drummond Lindsey

[ 08-07-2003, 09:20: Message edited by: huntsonora ]

Ray,

You are so outta line its rediculous. Drummond got on and gave an honest assessment of the area. And all you can do is revert to calling names and call him a troll? if you didn't have your head up your ass you could see what an idiot you look like. Your not gonna sell any hunts with an attitude like that.. Everytime someone disagrees with you you bash them and call names. Your reputation has gone to hell. I know you'll come back and call me names and call me a troll too. So go ahead. I could care less what you think. But in this thread its easy to see to anyone that's read it that your an idiot. You post pictures of other peoples animals and then call Drummond a liar and a person of the lowest litter, Ha! Now that's funny.. Drummond had posted his info and asked you to act like a man and call him. So you call him out like a child?.. You prove time and time again that your a moron. You should just stick to selling your high fence "hunts" and leave the real hunting to us.

Drummond, good posts. You've handled yourself like a stand up person and a man. You didn't come down to his level. You're the kind of guy I'd book with. Good luck to you and thanks for bringing some sanity to this post.

Well, I am a bit upset because he is lieing...

The photos are given to me each year by DK Boyd, we work together..He owns the ranch and I book hunts for him...Is something wrong with that?

DK has enlisted me to represent him and I put the photos on my web page just like I do for all the African hunters that I book, I am not there, I did not guide any of them,that is not my job..

If this man Lindsey is a guide then he should be aware of this...Boyd oil Company is in Odessa, Texas.

I don't think guy knows the hunter in the photograph or even which ranch the deer was killed on and if he wants to share that then I would varify one way or the other..

Lindsey, I know most of the ranchers in West Texas so where do you book your hunts on whose ranch...You do not own the ranch, all of Texas is privately owned for all practical purposes.

You are making some wild claims and I can varify everything I have said in reference to this ranch and the others Boyd Oil owns...I checked around and I can find no-one that has heard of you in Texas and you apparantly live in Utah..

Have you hunted or even been on any of DK Boyds ranches and are you affilated with Derron Proctor? Where did you obtain this knowledge of my business and DK ranches...You are simply wrong and the photos and the deer in the DPS office in Midland pretty well voids what you say, I don't know what else you need as to proof. I have 4 deer that substantiate what I am saying for Petes sake.

At any rate I have had my say and you yours, look me up sometime.

Lindsey,
BTW the 208 deer was killed on the Speed Ranch and the 233.5 deer came off the Frying Pan, in case your confused on that..for what its worth. The other two deer were off the Frying pan also.

Ray e-mailed these to me and asked me to post these pictures for him.

Hmmm, does anyone have any RECENT pictures of these supposedly 40" deer from Texas. It appears one is from 1982 (21 years ago!) and another is from 1996 or 8, hard to read. The first one, though a nice buck, sure doesn't look like any 40-incher, though. Maybe it's the camera angle. -TONY

[ 08-07-2003, 21:31: Message edited by: Outdoor Writer ]

I think that is '02 not '82. The other one looks like 98 not 96. Just judging for the "9" which is pretty clear, I would guess the other number as an "8"

Edited:

Ok, the picture that Ray e-mailed me is a lot bigger. I can see that it is '02 and '98.

[ 08-07-2003, 21:46: Message edited by: Wendell Reich ]

My only association with Texas hunting dates back more than a couple of decades. This time of year we often heard comments about how many Texans would be coming up to "kill our deer". Suppose they are still talking that way in my home town of Mancos, Colorado.

Huntsonora I don't think anyone is suprised that trophy mule deer are hard to find. In the last year and a half on this board I've not found Ray down playing that difficulty.

Let's hear about your hunts in your area. Much better than trashing someone elses.

Wally

Well I have done my best, I have nothing else to add to this guy or anyone else...Like I said we sell out and I only posted because that is what I have been doing here for years...

I always give AR folks first shot at what I have, perhaps it isn't wise....

If the man wasn't interrested then he should not have flamed me...I come from a different world than the internet, I'm not politically correct, and say whats on my mind, I prefer to look a man in the eye when I degrade him, but thats also politically incorrect these days..I guess I grew up in a different world...I hope he and I meet someday.

THOSE ARE SOME NICE MULEYS!

Ok, thanks Wendell. I'm viewing at a 1280x1040 resolution so the numbers were fairly small. But those bucks are super. -TONY

Ray,

Good God, this is getting old! If you choose to use pictures that you had nothing to do with then thats your decision. I would not personally do it but its your business and your perogative. Thats not my issue with you. Furthermore, I am not trashing your hunts. The issue I have with you are your claims as to the number of monster deer you will see in a day. To answer your questions, no I am not from Utah, you have confused the (801) area code with (806) which is west Texas, Lubbock to be exact. I had never heard of you before I was forwarded this post, I gathered all of my info form deductive reasoning reading past posts of yours and looking at your website. I have not used booking agents in the past although I am in contact with a couple right now to help book some hunts on some country I just leased. I saw your post where "people are just now starting to think about mule deer to book hunts" Most guided hunts are booked early in the year in my experience, people like to plan their year ahead of time. No I do not know anybody with the last name of Proctor. If I am not mistaken though he is the guy that screwed some of my clients a few years ago. Is he from Midland? As for the deer that is hanging in the DPS office in Midland, there is not one there. I went in there today and nobody knew what I was talking about, I then called the Odessa office and they told me that there is no deer hanging there either. I was in the Parks and Wildlife office off of Illinois 6 months ago chasing a rumor only to find out that the best deer that was in there is about a 160" rat. Now then, I am not calling you a liar, I am just saying that according to the DPS offices the deer is not there nor has there been one in the past ten years. This according to the DPS officer I talked to in the Midland office off of I-20 today. As for where I have country leased, its north of where you are, just north of Lovington NM and I do not care to name the landowner but I have more than 70,000 acres leased there. I told you in my first post that I was farther north of you. I will not tell you the name of my grandfathers ranch, he would not be to happy with me if I gave that out but it is in the Midland/Odessa area. As for the pictures, I dont know of the top deer, nice deer but not a "monster". I do however know of Chris' deer, the one in the middle, and of Mikes deer, the one on the bottom. At least I am 99% sure that the bottom picture is of Mikes deer. Now then, where are all of the 40" wide deer and 200"+ deer your clients have gotten? I am just curious because I know that you did not have anything to do with Chris' or Mikes deer. If you have everyones permission to use those pictures though, do whatever you want.

Back to the main issue, my problem is with the way you are representing these hunts. I came on here and interpretted what you were saying as this; these are the best deer in the world and you will see 2-3 of these giant deer in a morning. YOu throw the numbers 40" wide and 200"+ around like they are all over the place so I can only assume that these are the quality of deer you claim to see every day, in fact, in your words "2 0r 3 in a morning". I saw in a past thread entitled "Muley Crazy" that you have claimed to harvested several deer that "blew past the 30's but did not score 200"." I would think that if that were the case you would be advertising with those pictures as well. Ray, I live here and have hunted here and I am calling bullshit! There is no place in the world where you can see deer like that in the numbers you claim. I have never once said that this was a piss poor area or a piss poor hunt only that it is a MUCH more difficult hunt than you would like to have everyone believe. Ray, you have called me every name in the book and have accused me of being a liar and much more. If I dont know what I am talking about then how do I know the two bottom deer in the pictures you posted? I should have realized from the start that I was dealing with an amateur that would not know a hot spot for mule deer from his ass when I read your post saying that Sonora was completely shot out. If you will look at the issue of MuleyCrazy Magazine(2 issues ago), of which my clients deer is on the cover, you will see 30 to 40 awesome mule deer from all over the state of Sonora. How in the world would a magazine be able to have content like that if an area were shot out? Is it as good as it was 20 years ago, hell no but no place is as good as it was then. Ironically actually, its probably better in parts of Texas than it was 20 years ago but thats going to hell in a handbasket quick. I think I have covered everything but if I have not I guess I will post responses to your questions later. You seem like the type of guy that will never concede that he is wrong and the type of guy that always has to get the last word in so unless there is some pressing issue that needs to be dealt with or explained I will just consider my job finished here. I hope everybody realizes that while there are some great deer in this country it is one tough damn hunt. This is evident to me considering with all of these huge deer that get seen every damn day that Ray is still trying to get these hunts booked. Trust me when I tell you that 99% of hunters I know would book 10 years in advance for that price if in fact those quality of deer were beeing seen every day 2-3 times a day. All I will now ask of you Ray is that you not question my character, my ethics, my knowledge of the area or my knowledge of mule deer again. I think that I have explained myself well enough and if anybody needs to contact me regarding this area please feel free to either call (806)543-1890 or email me at huntsonora@aol.com. Ray, that includes you if you care to name call or threaten to "beat me up" which is so damn funny I almost fell out of my chair when I read it. At least thats how I interpretted it when I read it. Again Ray, you are a real class act, I especially liked the quote,"I like to look a man in the eye when I degrade him", thats a classic.

Drummond Lindsey

[ 08-08-2003, 04:29: Message edited by: huntsonora ]

this thread is interesting.I have read huntsonora's posts on monstermulys.com, for a couple of years. He seems to know what he is talking about.I subscibe to big buck, eastmans, and big game adventures. I do not remember seeing a 40" muley, taken recently.Every hunter should know a big muly is a RARE trophy today. My opinion Doyle Moss ( mossback productions) is THEE
muly expert in this country. Maybe he could respond?

Drummond,
"Back to the main issue, my problem is with the way you are representing these hunts. I came on here and interpretted what you were saying as this; these are the best deer in the world and you will see 2-3 of these giant deer in a morning. YOu throw the numbers 40" wide and 200"+ around like they are all over the place so I can only assume that these are the quality of deer you claim to see every day".

How in the world do you get that from Ray's post of "I have some trophy Mule Deer and we kill two or three each year in the 208 to 235 B&C class, spreads of 40 plus inches, which is pretty good because we only take about 7 hunters"?

You say you came here to offer your opinion of the area. What you did was come here and attack someone's integrity. Not by disagreeing with him, mind you. You did by accusing him of being a liar. "That is the farthest thing from the truth." That is calling Ray a liar. I wouldn't do without expecting some anger and retaliation.

I don't know either one of you and I don't hunt mule deer at all, so I couldn't care any less where the big ones are, but my blood started simmering when I read huntsonora's first post and it wasn't even directed at me.

If you want to disagree or offer a opposite opinion on something, that is perfectly fine. No one here ever agrees on anything all the time. But come in and start attacking someone's integrity and expect to get it in return.

A most interesting (and entertaining) thread.

So now your claiming these deer in the photographs are "Mikes" and hell they may be, the photos were sent to my by the ranch owner.. and lord knows what you will claim next. Your telling me that you don't know Deron Proctor but you know he lives in Midland, HMMMM thats interresting as he knows me.

Does the fact that I had to go to the bank and borrow $35,000 to refund my clints ring a bell, then I had to hunt that Deron Proctor (that you know lives in Midland) down and file both State and Federal criminal charges on him , to get my money back and it took two years before he understood he was going to prison. I then put him out of business....Now the plot thickens and I'm wondering if your not part of a get even plan?? If you are and I don't know if you are but it sure starting to sound strange to me along with a bunch of other stuff you have said...If so I will jerk your ass into court my friend, and I can still send Derron to the pen...

You can get the details of that case from Deputy Sheriff Clayton McKenny and tell him I said hello...He and I were roomates in high school btw...We lived in town with his mother during the school year as everyone lived on ranches out of town...

As to "mikes", deer, that is Mrs. Boyd holding the horns in Boyd Oils office in Midland, so I don't have a clue where your coming from...

If the lower deer is not 40 inches then what is it "Mr. Guide" and the other is so close to it and your saying its not, just how many deer have you looked at...your coming across to me as counterfiet...

When I say we see two or three of these deer together and then start tracking them...I mean by that two of them will be lesser deer, perhaps 27 to 30 or so inches and one will be a big boy..but I would have thought an expert like yourself would understand that, my hunters do!! I also stated that we have two or three of these big deer on each ranch and those ranches are mostly from 40,000 ac. to 100,000 plus and there are three of them that have those kind of deer, the one at Ft. Davis is 28" for a big deer...

So you keep quoting me as saying such and such but I didn't say that...You refuse to tell me where your leases are, You have no web page I don't guess and I don't know who your grandad is because you won't identify, you have given me no address and no one knows your idenity and you shoot from the dark with ramblings....

You have made an issue of me showing pictures of other peoples deer, now just what the hell is a booking agent supposed to do....I'm sorry my friend but you are just coming across strange as hell....

Your looking at Boyd Ranch deer and claiming them, hey come on you know thats a lie...and yes I have called you every name in the book and you have not shown me anything but cowardess and back shooting from the shadows..

Now its time to show yourself, give me a name and address, a business..not a telephone number for Petes sake...tell me whos ranches you just leased...Come out of your hole rabbit.

As to that big buck that you can't find, keep looking he is one of those offices and it was even written up in one of the Texas deer magazines...If you can't find it I will find it for you....It is in one of those offices...

I am going to find out a lot more about you and your agenda and if you are what I suspect you had better hunt a hole my friend, believe what I say, if I am wrong then thats fine but I am going to satisfy my suspecion...

I just called you Lindsey and got your answering service, hell your just a loud mouthed kid with a squeeky voice, about Derons age I suspect...Im coming my friend, West Texas justice.

Does "West Texas Justice" include two six-shooters on the hips or just a boring day in court?

Boy, that wasn't nice. But I meant it.

[ 08-08-2003, 09:08: Message edited by: Greenhorn ]

Well Lindsey just called me back and after a heated conversation we came to the conclusion it was more of a misunderstanding than anything else and he will posts on that soon...

In the meantime I admit that I should have been more specific about Sonora, and said certain ranches in Sonora have been shot out...and I apologised for my descriptive verbs, nouns and adverbs relitive to his character...

I'm not going to shoot him now, and in fact I probably made a pretty good friend....he is not connected to Deron Proctor and only knows him by reputition...As with most arguements, things just get out of hand...This one is over.