Holy #@*%$! What a couple of Big Egos can do on an Internet site is incredible.

Ray, Come on Bud. Threats, profane name calling. Show some maturity with that grey hair, PLEASE.

Drummond, Your points would be better taken if you weren't so looooonnnnggggggg winded.

Finally I do know of Drummond Lindsey. He guides in Sonora Mexico and has guided in other areas of the Muley's range. He wrote an article Published in Muley Crazy last issue about the Texas POACHING problem and the 46" texas buck.

I think you guys, especially Ray, need to take a deep breath and relax. If Ray's hunts are only $3,500 then who cares if the hunter doesn't see a 200" buck. It is only $3,500 for a muley hunt. Guys get what they pay for. Any prime hunt anywhere in the US/Mexico/Canada runs $5,500-$22,500. (Yes a Utah ranch has a $20,000 price for tags)

Dang it Ray, I go put the kids to bed during my writing and you go and post a nice mushy lovey post.

Boy oh Boy, It is like that for me everytime. A day late and a Dollar short. Kinda like showin' up in my favorite muley spot only to see a guy gutting a 35" 220 buck.

Good to see no one will be going to jail.

MGC,
Its my West Texas heritage, maturity has nothing to do with it, I passed that long ago, I'm now digressing, came into this world naked and mad and I'm intent on going out the same way...

BTW, On this $3500. hunt you either shoot the big boy or go home empty handed...nothing less than about 180 would be allowed to be shot for the most part...Were trying to keep the gene pool up and running and more big ones coming every year...It has been an extensive management program since the purchase of these ranches....

My only interrest is to try and find folks that are phyically capable of the hunting as it is very hard tracking in sand all day long and sucks the life out of you, then finding someone in that condition and still can afford to hunt is a problem..Most are highschool football players and track stars, and they are broke It is not a cake walk and I have made that clear to all inquiries..It is for the true trophy mule deer hunter with a passion for big Muleys or nothing...If you just want a mule deer buck then I can send you someplace else..

I missed a call from an area code (208) and had a pretty good idea it was Ray so I called him back directly. This guy is a firey old cuss that called me every name in the book, threatened to kick my ass and sue me. Once we got past the pleasantries we actually had a great talk. We were able to clarify a lot of things such as the quality of deer hunters can expect to see as well as success rates and what not. He informed me that a lot of changes have gone on in that country in the past few years. When I say that country I am talking specifically about the ranches that DK Boyd owns. Sounds like they have some good ideas and I can only hope that other landowners in the area will take the same steps to preserve this precious resource. We both agreed that this is a very difficult hunt that is physically demanding. Long story short, Ray said he gets a little excited talking about the possibilities in that area and I get a little excited and went off half cocked without giving him the benefit of the doubt. Therefore I will publicly apologize to Ray for not asking more questions first. I think that the Sonora slams put a sizeable chip on my shoulder and that was cleared up as well. As was mentioned earlier, I did write a story about a deer that was poached in TX last year and it continues to be a huge threat to these deer. For the record, I will not divulge the location of the poached deer but I will say it was not close to the area Ray books hunts for. Poaching is not confined to a small area though and I hope that if nothing else we can raise the awareness of this problem. Whats hilarious is that Ray and I have numerous mutual friends. Small world. Anyway, I will try to have lunch with Mr. Boyd next week and pick his brain as to long term goals of the ranch and the deer. I really do look forward to that conversation. I have an addiction and that is big mule deer. I am extremely passionate about these deer and as I am sure most can tell extremely set in my ways and opinionated. I heard somebody call us "big egos" and I think a couple of stubborn west Texas boys would be more suitable. It was not my intention to slam Ray or DK Boyds ranches, I was under the impression, the wrong impression, that these were being sold as fairly easy hunts. Ray, thanks for the phone call and the apologies, it takes a big man to do that and it really is appreciated.

Drummond Lindsey

[ 08-08-2003, 09:28: Message edited by: huntsonora ]

Had a bad day yesterday Ray? All I have to ask is does that make you feel like a bigger man threatening ppl over the internet with the protection of a computer screen in front of your face. You should be a little more subtle and save that anger for when you were face to face with a individual who ruffled your feathers. It would be more effective and make you look less of a fool.

Just my .02

-Mike Cayford

Ray,
Maurity is something you hopefully get with age. It does not happen naturally, most folks have to work at it, with some it comes rather naturally and some never get it.

Well folks, as usual I'm an hour late, and a dollar short, It seem thses two have put their pistols back in the leather, while I was typeing, but I'll leave the post anyway, as it was my true opinion at the time of posting!

Well folks this has gone about as far as it can, without bloodshed.

Stop and think poeple, we Know Ray, and I know him personally, but nobody here has ever heard of Drummond Lindsey. This sounds like a Mike Boyd type, with a little better command of the English language.

The big thing he has a problem with is the pictures on Ray's website not being taken by a person he booked????. Ray is not booking all the hunters that hunt on these ranches, but he is booking THE RANCH, and it's quality of deer to be found there, for the price the owner wants for his hunting rights! I see nothing unethical in that, the deer are reprosentitve of the quality on the ranch, since they were taken on that place.

I simply think Ray has something when he says this guy is part of a Payback project, or simply someone who must down another to make himself look better! What a poor solution to an inferiority complex, especially when one hides behind a keyboard to make his mark on a board that has seen nothing but fairplay from Ray Atkinson.

I could be wrong, and I have, as many of you know, but this guy simply doesn't ring true, to me. I believe he is exactly what Ray says he is, full of BS, and is only a trouble makeing Kid. As I said I've been wrong before, ONCE back in 1941, or was it 39, hell, I don't know, but it wasn't about Ray's Ethics, I can assure you!

[ 08-09-2003, 05:58: Message edited by: MacD37 ]

Holy dog balls! I've heard about west texas justice. Its kinda like "deliverance" without a river. Instead of squeeling like a pig,you inbred texas motherfuckers just scream "Y'all".

The only inbred people I know in Texas came from wyoming.

Chic,
At the rate your going you will be damn lucky to reach maturity...

Now why would anybody in their right mind move from wyoming to the shithole known as texas. Now if it was colorado,it would make sense since you texas dipshits have pretty much destroyed colorado.

I don't blame you for being envious of Texas people. If I wasn't a native Texan I would be envious too. Some were born here while the rest got here as quick as they could. We didn't ruin Colorado we just bought most of it. Wyoming may be next on the list.

At the rate your going you will be damn lucky to reach maturity...

Well at least he speaks the truth, unlike you... Btw, you have struck my curiousity. Is this comment a threat to Chic or does it have some different meaning that I'm missing?

Ray, you need to spend time trying to identify maturity, rather than making more threats. Seems to be your avenue of escape when you run out of any arguments that make sense, which is a rarity.

Chic,
Believe this, Every dog has his day...

Why is it that little short fat guys like you always pick on us big tall handsome types, its not our fault your mother kicked you off so soon and stunted your growth...

I have to admit this is about the most intersting threads I've read to date. Glad everybody kissed and made up.

I think big mule dear in west texas are kinda like pretty girls in west texas, theirs one behind every tree.........just aint many trees.

As far as what a booking agent, Rancher, Lease Mgrs etc told me about any kind of mule deer hunting in West Texas, I would talk real time to the game biologist that did the surveys and want to see the data in hand. Deer populations can vary from ranch to ranch.

But one thing that doesnt vary is BS

Oh Ray, am I supposed to be scared now. And you must have one of those trick mirrors that make you look a lot better looking, younger and less fat than you are.

Have always been told it is just a weak mind that resorts to violence to settle anything. You are trying to prove that in spades. You will be covered in BS not matter what the outcome. It won't rub off easy.

BTW, never seen someone blame where they came from for being nasty to people. You might try some personal responsibility in the future.

[ 08-10-2003, 07:34: Message edited by: Customstox ]

Many thanks to Chick, the brave little internet troll for his words of concern....

Many thanks to Chick, the brave little internet troll for his words of concern....

Ray, why is it that when you have your back against a wall you demagogue the particular person that you have a disagreement with as a troll. The meaning of a troll as I see it is a person who hides�s their alias. Just so you don�t try to label me a troll I will tell you my name is Mike Cayford.

Labeling Chic a troll is very much laughable. He�s been posting on these boards as long as you and has quite a reputation as a stockmaker. You keep making comments in a roundabout way that you are going to do something to him while entirely avoiding my previous inquiries. Kind of odd to me because I always thought that you saw yourself as a straight talker.

It�s sad because for a while I used to read quite a bit of your posts. But me being an avid post reader of many individuals I often found several holes in some of your posts. Particularly in the gunsmithing boards. It became apparent to me that in some respects you knew what you were talking about. But on that same note it also became apparent that you often spoke about things you knew absolutely nothing about it. Which to me is sad, because I find myself as a humble man who is never afraid to admit that I don�t know something? You on the other hand have quite an ego to feed as somehow admitting that you didn�t know something on a particular subject might damage your �internet reputation�.

If you want to talk about anything I�ve said in person I will be in Reno, NV for the guild show to discuss them in person. Maybe I have you all wrong (which I hope), but at this point I think you�re a clown shoe�..

[ 08-10-2003, 21:48: Message edited by: alvinmack ]

Ray, I've booked a few hunts in the past with outfitters for hunts in Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, and Quebec. I also plan to book a few more in the years to come.
I've looked at your site a number of times and was impressed with what you offered. I've also followed some of your postings here, specifically this one and the one on the high fence elk hunt.
Ray to be honest with you from what I've seen I'd be afraid to deal with you now for a hunt.
Booking a hunt, paying what to me is big bucks for the pleasure, I want to deal with someone that doesn't come off the way you do. I'd be afraid with your attitiude I'd run into some serious problems if I had to confront you with items I didn't find satisfactory/honest about the hunt. Now, mind you, on all the hunts I've been on, even the ones where I took no game, I've never had to complain to the outfitter, but if I ever do, I'd sure like to be dealing with someone with a little more civil attitude than you come across here with.
I just wanted to let you know how I fell and maybe others do too when you go off on one of these tantrums.

OK, suits me

Ray, if nothing else you are consistant. Ummmm, I wouldn't be too proud of that fact in this case.

It's Fat Bastard with a game farm elk..



[ 08-11-2003, 08:45: Message edited by: Greenhorn ]

Wow Macd37,I'm suprised you didn't mention the way you castrate a texan. You know by kicking his sister in the chin. or in texas that would be his sister/wife. Speaking of sheep,not to long ago a couple texans thought they might have found another use for sheep(besides doing what texans do best,fucking sheep)Turned out it was just wool.

Just as a side note mac,with all your spanish talk about cheros or fuckin'cheerios. Didn't they discover texans were living proof that the mexicans fucked buffalo.

Gentleman,

Guess the West Texas "cat fight" is over. It was pretty interesting while it lasted.

I was one told by a friend that all West Texas needed to be heaven on earth, "was some good people and a little rain". But of course that's all "Hell" needs too!

Regards,

Bob

For those of you who are unfamiliar with monstermuleys.com which is where huntsonora comes from this is the kind of crap that goes on over there all the time. Before you take his side in this go over to monstermuleys and read some of the posts he has made over there and you will see this is not an isolated incident.

huntsonora not being a veteran of this board failed to know that we try to keep things over here on a much friendlier basis and handle questions about someones information in other ways than just coming on a blasting the information they have given calling the person a liar and that in fact you are the real expert.

huntsonora I would like to see you go back to monstermuleys with this kind of crap before you bring anymore of your kind over to this site.

Mac37,you're not that creative. If your going to post my quotes at least post the entire thing,not just parts to suit you. I realize texicans aren't that smart,but I'm sure you can do better then this.

Wow, that was entertaining...Ray can come off as a crotchedy (sp?) old fart but he's alright. If he says this other guy's alright then I don't know why everybody's piling on. Enough of that...

As a relative youngster that might be able to afford something like this (unmarried, not necesarily rich, etc.) I'm curious if you folks "in the know" could define what you mean by a hard hunt?

You've already mentioned tracking in sand but is there something else to mention? Is it at a time of year where it's hot and one's easily dehydrated? Is the habitat such that sight is limited requiring close approach? Does the habitat prevent easy approach and easy escape for the quarry? Does it require two weeks of constant walking sunup to sunset?

Those are a few of the questions that came to my limited mind.

As for everything else, carry on.

Thanks in advance.

Reed

No mac37,you've spent the past 60 years paying to hunt on private property in wyoming,and those that you've paid have kissed your ass and taken your money. The ones that didn't make money off you,but still treated you nice,are now having second thoughts.Mainly because now they have dipshits like you living next door to them. The majority of residents in wyoming,montana and any other western state,who make a living that isn't dependant on tourism,could give less then a shit if you showed up every year. It would be a hell of alot cheaper if you didn't.

Since you only posted the things that you took offense to. What did you have a bad experience with cheerios? Ran out of milk.

RMK, I never paid anyone to hunt in Wyoming, except the state for a hunting license,grocery stores for food, and the filling stations for gas. I don't need a little snip like you to show me how to hunt. I was hunting deer,and Elk before you were a glint in your daddy's eye.

The reason I've hunted in Wyoming is because of the large amount of public land, where I don't have to ask anyone, other than the state of Wyoming, if I can hunt! I hunt New Mexico, and Alaska for the same reasons. The state of Texas was taken over by folks from other states who couldn't find work at home, a great number of them from WYOMING! They didn't just visit, they moved in to stay! Texas is 99% private property, and outsiders have paid so high prices to hunt here, they have priced people like me out of the field. Idiots comming to Texas, and paying $3000, to $7000 for a little whitetail, or a goaty Mule deer deer hunt, is what ruined the hunting here, for the locals.
Texans did not ruin your state,you did that yourself, we leave nothing in your state, when we leave, but foot tracks, and money, and in my case a lot of friends.
I still say "YOU" are not typical of most people from Wyoming, as I said most have cleaner mouths, and manners!

RMK, I'll not respond further, for you, my friend, are cretainly not one I would care to share a camp with! I doubt there are many who do!

My My what a nasty thread. If I were one of the maligned or contrbutors to this post, I would just edit all my messages away and consider it a bad dream.

Just too much bad form.