The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting Can you please help us stop this practice.Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Can you please help us stop this practice. | Login/Join |
one of us |
Hunters are coming to New Zealand from around the world to hunt Tahr,but some Outfitters are pushing clients into this type of hunt. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcDMX4tQTy4 "Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." Sir Winston Churchill | ||
|
| One of Us |
TOP_P-what you have shown, indicates the condition of the whole world. people have lost their moral stability and all that counts is ME,ME,ME period. That is not hunting, it is murder in the 1st degree because the animal has no chance. | |||
|
One of Us |
Are you a vegetarian? | |||
|
| One of Us |
Are you a member of PETA? ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
|
| One of Us |
They outlawed the use of aircraft in Alaska--I believe you cannot fly and hunt on the same day-- and, in fact, most states have laws on the book about the use of aircraft for hazing and spotting game. No reason why you folks can't do it. Coursing an animal by aircraft, boat, truck until it is exhausted and then stepping out and killing it is wrong on so many levels. Aim for the exit hole | |||
|
| One of Us |
I wouldn't call that murder, nor would I call it hunting. Using a helicopter to get a guy to the top of the mountain seems fine to me, but chasing the animal until exhaustion, then dropping off the hunter and then herding it toward him seems like BS to me. This is no different than using a snowmobile to chase a deer or elk until it can't go more and then shoot it. Or chasing an impala across the plains on an atv. Not something to be proud of, imo. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Yea. It's much better to just keep it penned up and shoot it there. I would agree though, it's not my idea of hunting. The goal of the outfitter is to get the game on the ground with as little physical effort on their part as possible. Whether by truck or by plane; it can be in the U.S.A. or in Africa, similar things happen. My recommendation would be that if you don't want that type of "hunt" you should have a very clear understanding of how your outfitter or PH does things before you sign up for a hunt. Also, pick a skinny PH as they'll be more likely to be willing to put forth physical effort on a hunt. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Write the law and then enforce it with very stiff penalties. The problem will go away quickly. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Murder,I dont think so.I have no problem with spotting from a helicopter and then stalking the animal.I don`t go for harrasing them .Face it this is a buisness.Brings money into the economy.If you don`t like it,don`t do it,but dont deny hunting to some older or infirm person because you do not agree with it. | |||
|
One of Us |
IBTL ! Haha there is so much wrong with the world today the last thing on my mind is picking on someone who is in this hunting/shooting sport with me. Our biggest threat to this sport isn't who doesn't participate in it with us, it is who does. This battle will be ongoing on multiple topics... African game on game ranches Hunting in Texas Crossbow vs compound bow hunters who shoot over 200 yards People hunting with open sights (and wounding game) "Let me start off with two words: Made in America" | |||
|
| One of Us |
Hi all, I was asked to comment as someone who's been fighting this for a while, and have a background knowledge of the situation. The video in question is a combination of clips that are already posted on YouTube by Helihunters, and one is a well known piece a guide uses in his advertising. This vid doe's not show the worst of the activity, often a 410 shotgun is used with birdshot to blast them out of caves and scrub. Tahr and Chamois will tear off their hooves and break legs in their eforts to get away from the machine, and if they do sit tight on some peice of country they can't be recovered from, can later die of starvation due to being unable to walk. As has being stated already, often the client is unaware of the situation around this practice, and at times is almost bullied into participating. Why? because its a cheap and nasty hunt, and there are no regulations controlling guides, anyone can call themselves a guide and they can carry out between 5 and 10 of these "hunts" a day, charging 4000 dollars a pop. Other than animal wellfare, and ethics, the reason we don't want this, is it's seen by the greenies as a way to destroy our tahr herd. There are only 10,000 in existance, 1600 are of trophy class. There are 10 helicopters appliying for permits too carry out helihunting, and each will take about 120 bulls a year if they get the chance. The Dept of Conservation will charge 500 dollars a head for those bulls, with the funds earned used for tahr eradication programs. Lets make this clear, their mandate is eradication where possable! There are only two countrys seen as markets for helihunting, America provides 75% of clients, and Australia provides the other 25%, To put it bluntly, you guys are seen as the cash cow that will pay for the destruction of our game herds. I fully realise some members will be pro helihunting, but I'm asking those that arn't to use the email address at the end of the vid and let our minister of tourism know how you feel about this. they see it as a money earner, we have to make it too crappy to touch. I'm off in 3 weeks for a Tahr and Chamois hunt of 10 days duration, I'll post up some pics and story about it when I return. One thing America has better than almost any other country, is its right to bear arms, New Zealands cultural right is that of free, unimpeded hunting on public land. Like your anti's, our don't like this, and see the destruction of our game animal herds as a way to get rid of hunting, the animals, and our reason to have guns. We don't want to stop visitors comming too NZ and enjoying our freedom's, but we do want to stop practices that threaten those freedoms. Thanks Craig | |||
|
| One of Us |
I hate it.. Lazy bastards. I lean more towards murder as well than hunting. I've never understood how someone can put those in the house and be proud of that hunt. And yes, I earned my 2 bull tahr and a nice chamois the old fashioned way.. with boot leather and the will to haul my carcass up into the crags and scree slopes with my own two legs. | |||
|
| one of us |
I dunno who put up that clip, nor do I know how much heli-hunting actually occurs in relation to the total kill, but if they keep this propaganda barrage up, they may get what they wish for, which will be no hunting. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
|
| One of Us |
So chickens ,beef ,pigs at the slaughter house are murdered?????? Thats what you are saying. | |||
|
| one of us |
I think Alaska has it right. No use of aircraft on the day you hunt. Period. I hunted NZ in 2003 without the use of helicopter. Hell, using it to bring you to the top of the mountain is not much better than shooting out of the heli. How far do you "stalk" the animal? 100 yards? 10 yards? The challenge of mountain hunting is climbing them. If you can't climb them, don't hunt. Hell, not everyone can afford to hunt lions, right? Not everyone will be able to hunt everthing they want in life. Why not just make it legal to drop bombs on the things? Chickens, pigs, and cows are slaughtered. But they are not hunted. Use of a helicpoter is slaughtering, IMO. | |||
|
| One of Us |
| |||
|
| One of Us |
Well slaughtering is not mureder!!!! | |||
|
| One of Us |
I hope none of you get OLD or infirm aand still want to hunt.Fucking hipocrites. | |||
|
| One of Us |
We'll all get old, hopefully given the chance. i plan to grow old with dignity and accept certain things will become out of reach. I deffinatly see myself hunting till I die, even if its just rabbits, hell thats the way I started, almost seems fitting. Make no mistake though, helihunting is not hunting, no skill is needed, no knowledge of the game is required, by client or guide, and theres no chance of failure. Its no differant from shooting a tethered animal. | |||
|
| One of Us |
My arguement is not that I approve of hunting that way.I detest harassing and the use of the shotgun.I think the use of the helicopter to transport a person to a place they might not be able to get to on their own is OK.I would hate to see that disappear.The attitude of some here that if you cant do it completely on your own you should not do it all sucks.My neighbors son inconvientey lost his lower legs to a IED in Iraq.So now he should give up on hunting mountains with out assistance.How arrogant is that. | |||
|
| One of Us |
That is bad, particularly the last one. I think I have seen that white helicopter before. Would it be licensed to a station that begins with an M? If so, I am very disappointed in them. My girlfriend and I went on a sightseeing ride on that helicopter I believe. It was actually one of the highlights of our last trip. The only thing they ever said about shooting from the chopper was about pigs. They said if we saw pigs in one area, we would get shotguns and come back and shoot them. They wanted them gone for some reason which I don't recall. That didn't particularly bother me as they weren't hunting. It was vermin eradication to them. They never said a word about chopper shooting tahr. I have no problem being flown to the top and hunting down. But this? WOW! Hell, forget the tahr. I would not have shot in the cave for safety reasons alone. I am 54 and I hail from the flat lands less than 100 feet above sea level. Make no mistake, the mountains are hard on me. I exercise extensively and give my best when I hit the mountains. When I can't make it anymore, I will quit before I participate in something like this. I will make an effort to speak with the DOC person while in Reno. If the fees I pay are being used to eradicate tahr, I will not be back. After all, hunting elephants and buffalo isn't that bad. | |||
|
One of Us |
Never saw a wheelchair in the video…musta missed it. The guy in this video looks to be able to at least get out and walk around on that rocky crap. Where do you get that he is “old and/or infirmed?”
A good mans got to know his limitations… I hunt with two guys that have permanent disabled hunting licenses in Oregon. Both of them have knee issues and both were military service related. While disabled hunters have some leeway in their requirements and restrictions on how they can hunt, they are not able to chase an animal with a helicopter until it is nearly dead (and don’t forget wound it with shotguns in case it doesn’t give up after several miles) and then get out and blast away at it. Nope. I do not agree with shooting animals behind high fences or pens, or shooting animals around feeders either, but that is NOT what is going on in the video and is not what was being discussed. Did you notice I refrained from calling either of these practices "HUNTING?" This is… JUST A TYPICAL WHITE GUY BITTERLY CLINGING TO GUNS AND RELIGION Definition of HOPLOPHOBIA "I'm the guy that originally wrote the 'assault weapons' ban." --- Former Vice President Joe Biden | |||
|
| One of Us |
Obliker, Your neighbours son could still hunt Tahr in New Zealand with some assistance on private land where the contour is easier and allows 4wd access, as long as he has some ability to travel some distance with help.And he would have our respect. Would he be allowed to helihunt a sheep or mountain goat in the U.S. because of his injuries? Larry, thanks for your support, often good pilots and guides get pushed into this activity against their wish's, at times because if they don't do it, another company will take their customers/ market share. Because the helihunts are so cheap, private land, and ethical guides on public land are being slowly driven out of buisiness as they can't compete. There is a small herd of white tail deer on the shores of Lake Whakatipu, To get the SCI award for all the south pacific game speicies you need a white tail. nearly all the male deer from that herd have been shot by a single helicopter company and guideing opperation, and from the air to satisfy that market. the ground based guides will put in weeks to find a buck, only to come back with a client to find its carcase minus head. This need to have an award or recognition at any cost is destrying hunting on this side of the world, our country is not much bigger than pennsylvania, and a big herd of any speicies my be 250,000 for red deer across the entire two islands at most. Most herds number only 10-30,000 in total, some like sambar, Rusa and whitetail only make the low thousands. Its no exaggeration to say that given the chance, and money, they can quite easily be wiped out. | |||
|
| One of Us |
He would not be for Hell hunting,neither am I.I am just saying you need to be carefull how you would word a Law against this so it does not outlaw people who need a little more assistance than an able bodied person.Actually Josh my neighbors son does quite well on prosthetics,but could never do a trip into The Mountains on his own. | |||
|
one of us |
Correction... Same day airborne hunting is allowed in Alaska. Fixed wing only. Sitka deer and Caribou can be hunted same day airborne. That hunt is consider to be a "meat" hunt, not a "trophy" hunt. Wolves are being shot from helicopters. They are considered to be "pests." Hogs are shot from helicopters in Texas. They are consideresd to be "pests." I'm pretty sure the animals we're talking about here in NZ, are also considered to be "pests." Change the category of the animals in question from "pest" to "game animals" and I'm all for it. Having said that, I wouldn't shoot from a helicopter in Nz. | |||
|
| One of Us |
In this case TJ, they havn't been classified as pest's since the introduction of the wild animal control act of 1977, where all use of pest or more correctly, Noxious animal were removed. Pest is a word that the greenies still use to confuse the general public, and make the animals seem valueless. While they are no longer classed as pest's, they don't yet have Game status, this is going to change in the next year or so with the introduction of the Game animal council, a statutory body for the management of game animals on public land, with the proviso that where the Dept of Conservation feels it needs to lower numbers, it still can. Not One hundred percent there yet, but a move in the right direction. I think your confusion springs from the fact that there are some major differance's in how game animals have to be managed between our two countrys. Here we have absolutly no natural predators, and a low human population. management here will, for the forseeable future, consist of control measures to keep a balance, Where possable that should be the helicopter recovery of carcases for sale with management goals in mind, but at times it may well have to be shoot to waste. Helihunting dosn't fit either of those category's. | |||
|
One of Us |
It's disgusting, I'm 61 and can't hike the mountains like I used to hunt elk, but I still go up there after them. I hate it when hunters act like a corrupt organization willing to condone anything to "protect their own" and then blame the anti-hunters for their bad publicity. In this case they deserve it. Pass a law and enforce it, the hunters should lead the way. Chuck Regards, Chuck "There's a saying in prize fighting, everyone's got a plan until they get hit" Michael Douglas "The Ghost And The Darkness" | |||
|
| one of us |
TJ: When did Alaska change the law to allow fixed wing aircraft travel and hunting the same day?? You neglected to mention helicpoters are not allowed for hunting at all. Not even to "get to the top of the mountain." | |||
|
| One of Us |
You should actually read what my gripe was.I was not referring to the Video or who was in it. | |||
|
| One of Us |
It wasn't until your sixth post in the thread that you made your position clear, which was after you referred to others as "fucking hypocrites". Perhaps you should have done a better job communicating your stance if you wanted people to understand where you stand... | |||
|
| One of Us |
You are right.My communication skills are not the best. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Why weren’t you referring to the video? I read and fully understand every post you made. I hate to be the bearer of bad news; this post is about a video depicting heli-“hunting” in New Zealand and not about disabled hunters “getting out and hunting.” Maybe you should start that topic? I would love to contribute some stories I have. JUST A TYPICAL WHITE GUY BITTERLY CLINGING TO GUNS AND RELIGION Definition of HOPLOPHOBIA "I'm the guy that originally wrote the 'assault weapons' ban." --- Former Vice President Joe Biden | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting Can you please help us stop this practice.
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia