You guys from texas have very weak rebuttal skills.
Eland ran and hid,when he got spanked.
Now some of you have resorted to twisting words around to make a case.
I'd jump in and defend mr stephens,but I dont think he needs help.

quote:

Originally posted by Mulerider:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:

"my point is this.
I own a home in AR but cant purchase a resident License because my home state doesnt allow for dual residency. i pay state taxs and city taxs, i pay upkeep and maint and club dues to hunt. then i have to but a non res. license that in the last few years has gone both up in price and down in limit. my father, who holds dual residency because he lives in FL gets a res lic.
he only takes one deer a year, two at the most.
his tags are paid for and mine are paid for.
the state has collected the revenues on 6 deer.
and the meat is not going to go to waste.
now if you REALLY have a problem with that then your a bit anal in my book."
----------------------------
The following explanation seemed appropriate for the above logic. No other way to justify using other's tags....

"Rationalizing is a dishonest substitute for reasoning whereby we set out 'to defend our ideas rather than to find out the truth of the matters concerned.'... You are reasoning if the belief follows the evidence--that is, if you examine the evidence first and then make up your mind. You are rationalizing if the evidence follows your belief - if you'll first decide what you'll believe and then select and interpret evidence to justify it."

nice cut and paste.

try this one...
... law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual. -- Thomas Jefferson

its my right as a taxpayer to the state of AR to be allowed the same tags as others who pay the same taxs?

heres more for you...
Unnecessary laws are but traps for money. -- Thomas Hobbes

i could buy more tags at higher non-res prices

Where there is no law, there is no freedom. -- John Locke

Every law is an evil for every law is an infraction of liberty. -- Jeremy Bentham

Just as it is the duty of all men to obey just laws, so it is the duty of all men to disobey unjust laws -- Martin Luther King Jr.

IS IT JUST?
IS IT JUST to charge me, a taxpayer to the state of AR, a person who holds a 3200 Acre lease a person who has a home and has hunted for more than 25 years in that state...
IS IT JUST to make me pay 5 times the amount for an addtional tag?

like i said,
he without sin casteth the first stone.
you want to pick and choose what to obey and when to obey it.
I know whats right and whats wrong.
i will do what i know is right regardless of what you say and if i have to stand in front of the man for it, then so be it. ill take my Rx like a big boy.

And let me add... I dont need a lawyer or a Judge to tell me if hunting is a right or a privilege.
Anyone who does has moved far left of center and needs wake up.
No man is obligated to obey unjust laws.
there are millions of laws that millions of people break everyday. some are good laws and some have no relationship between true right and wrong.
most are in place to garner revenue.

let me give you an example...
the state of SC , decades ago, enacted child safety seat laws.
this was becasue it was proven that small kids were being injured far worse in auto accidents due to the restrainds being built for adults.
the fine for NOT using these seats was a couple of hundred dollars, astronomical compared to the dollars value in those days.
That was a law that was passed to CHANGE BEHAVIOR and get people to use the seats.
Last year SC enacted a seatbelt law.
The fine is $25.
That fine is not intended to change behavior, to the contrary it is so low as to be absurd. in fact, the lawmakers would rather you not change your behavior, so you can get pulled over and pay the fine repeatedly.
The LAW is there for one thing and one thing only.
REVENUE.
so i am braking the law by driving my truck without a seatbelt...
but i can have someone sitting in a lawnchair in the back of the truck...
and i can get the ticket from a cop on a motorcycle.
I view the out of state license tags the same way. they raise the price 10-20 bucks a year and lower the limit. not to push you away from buying the license but to push you towards buying an longer license to get the extra tag.


$25.00
Resident Sportsman’s License
Entitles the holder to hunt all game species using modern gun, muzzleloader or archery, and to take a total bag limit of deer. Valid through June 30. Four deer tags and four turkey tags are included with this license.





$300.00
Nonresident Annual All Game
Hunting License (NBG)
Entitles the holder to hunt all game species except furbearers. Valid through June 30. Four deer tags and four turkey tags are included with this license.

$150.00
Nonresident 5-Day All Game
Hunting License
Entitles the holder to hunt all game species except furbearers for the five-day period specified. Two deer tags and two turkey tags are included with this license.

$100.00
Nonresident 3-Day All Game
Hunting License
Entitles the holder to hunt all game species except furbearers for the three-day period specified. One deer tag and one turkey tag are included with this license.


THATS RIGHT... 12 TIMES THE PRICE FOR THE SAME # OF TAGS.

Ok jb lets be sure you get this clear without twisting any words. This hase nothing to do with Texas or min. or s.c. or any other thread.

Kstephens has clearly stated he will poach if he disagrees with the hunting laws and regulations of any given state. He has also stated that he is a big boy and will take his rx if he gets caught. It is clear to me by these statements he knows he is breaking the game laws and subject to fine or worse if convicted.

----------------------------------------------
Here is where other threads come into this. It seems inconsistant to me to hammer people from one state for following the game laws to the letter and claim to be superior for breaking the game laws where you hunt. whether or not the game laws are fair or right you still have to follow them to be ethical. You are not dictator of what is right in the hunting world I even agree with you about what is wrong with the out of state in state difference in fees. I dont think you should be able to charge people by the point for deer they already own because you built a fence around them.

in short we agree more than we dissagree about many things but you are not the arbitor of what is ethical in hunting. quote jefferson and lott and the rest of them all you like I am glad you are well read but you are just wrong on this one. jefferson was railing against a forign monarchy not hte us govt of the people. If you dont like the game laws work to change them hell we will even help you. You are part of a society of laws and have sway to change the laws you dont agree with. you are wrong to steal/poach. all the excuses in the world wont make you breaking the law right or ethical.

All your personal attacks hold no weight over the fact that your actions are wrong and unethical. Cry all you want about spelling grammar or what laws you assume I break it wont make you right. I am not saying you are a bad person or evil I dont know you but I know you are wrong to poach. you are poaching/stealing and that is that.

have a nice day.

quote:

Originally posted by CRUSHER:
you are poaching/stealing and that is that.

i dont get how you can say that.
how am i stealing anything?
what am i taking away from anyone?

are you tring to argue that the deer i kill dont belong to me?

you break a game law you are poaching. pretty simple right?

I am not saying the law is right just that you are wrong to break it.

quote:

Originally posted by CRUSHER:
you break a game law you are poaching. pretty simple right?

no poaching is...poach·ing –noun 1. the illegal practice of trespassing on another's property to hunt or steal game without the landowner's permission.
im not poaching. nor am i stealing anything.
the state of AR is price gouging.
the deer i kill i have paid for in full and then some.

you kill a deer without a legal tag in your name you are poaching. the state is gouging. both these statments are true

"[poach·ing –noun 1. the illegal practice of trespassing on another's property to hunt or steal game without the landowner's permission.
im not poaching. nor am i stealing anything.
the state of AR is price gouging.
the deer i kill i have paid for in full and then some."

the deer are not the property of the land owner they are the property of the state. right? if you kill one without the proper tag in your name the state says you are stealing/poaching.

if you pay for deer and not deer hunting you are participating in the sale of livestock not hunting.or so you say. right?

so if the state says that even the ownership of real estate doesnt qualify one as a resident
AND
the state charges a unjustifiable amount for non-res license
AND
they continue to raise the price of said license while also lowering the limit.

you feel i am still obligated to obey the regulation that says "lending of license" is an offense.

i understand that you have a moral compunction about breaking the "law". i have certain things i am absolute about as well. this is not one.

KSTEPHENS you are no longer a resident of the State or Arkansas; you are just a property owner. There is a difference you know, if you paid AR State income tax (if there is such a thing) and lived there for the majority of the year I would give you a break. You live in South Carolina for work reasons, again I'm guessing. That job probably is better than the one you left in AR, am I right? This very same job affords you the opportunity to go back to hunt AR on a regular basis, and to pay the property taxes on your house and purchase your deer lease right?

If you think you are paying too much to hunt AR then stop hunting there. Let your club dues expire and quit paying for non-resident tags. You could always move to Florida and live with your dad. Here is a suggestion find some where else to hunt that may be cheaper; my guess is you are too lazy to do that. You just want the best of both worlds.

All hunting is a way for States to generate revenue and so are fines for traffic violations. They are not doing anything different than any other State in the U.S. Non-Resident Licenses and fines are probably the two biggest revenue generators for any States DNR/DOW. If you don't like it work towards changing it not breaking the hunting laws, or pay for the extra tag.

On this forum there are probably some more hunters who are in the same situation that you are. You don't here them openly admitting to breaking the game laws even if they don't like them. I would like to think that they are doing the right thing and obeying those laws.

If you think that you pay too much as a non-resident in AR, move out here to Colorado and become a resident of my State and see what you pay to hunt every year. We have to purchase a single tag for every deer, pronghorn, elk, moose, sheep, mountain goat, bear, and lion that a resident hunts. Bull Moose tags are a once in a lifetime tag regardless if you fill or not. Turkey season even requires a tag; I don’t know how many you are allowed because I’m not interested in hunting them. Most seasons only last a week or less as well for big game, I don’t complain I enjoy the opportunity to hunt here every year.

quote:

Originally posted by just-a-hunter:
Killing deer on a kids licence/tag is a prime example of party hunting/poaching.

I do speed. I turn sometimes without using my signal, so on and so forth. I'm also willing to pay the fines if I get caught or if somebody wants to turn me in.

I also would have followed that deer on to the private property, if I couldn't have gotten a hold of somebody. I would have made a few phone calls first. The DNR would have been one of the calls. Then I would make follow up calls, took pictures/video of the blood trail going onto the property so I would have sufficient evidence in court. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. I got lucky and had a decent land owner that hates to see wasted meat as much as I.

I have broken laws. I have broken hunting laws. Kinda like when I accidently shot a 2x3 bull in a spike only unit. I took care of the animal, (including having to pack it out in quarters quite a good ways) got it home without seeing another person all day, then I turned myself in, and had to pay a reduced fine of $300.00, and the meat got siezed.

But party hunting/poaching robs from other people. You are killing animals illeagaly that somebody else would love to take leagal. That person that actually has a tag might not get a deer because you poached one for your father.

Todd

Accidentally shoot a 2x3 on a spike hunt and turn yourself in pay a fine and lose a couple hundred pounds of meat. Now that was genuis if I ever heard of it.

quote:

Originally posted by Jarrod:

quote:

Originally posted by just-a-hunter:
Killing deer on a kids licence/tag is a prime example of party hunting/poaching.

I do speed. I turn sometimes without using my signal, so on and so forth. I'm also willing to pay the fines if I get caught or if somebody wants to turn me in.

I also would have followed that deer on to the private property, if I couldn't have gotten a hold of somebody. I would have made a few phone calls first. The DNR would have been one of the calls. Then I would make follow up calls, took pictures/video of the blood trail going onto the property so I would have sufficient evidence in court. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. I got lucky and had a decent land owner that hates to see wasted meat as much as I.

I have broken laws. I have broken hunting laws. Kinda like when I accidently shot a 2x3 bull in a spike only unit. I took care of the animal, (including having to pack it out in quarters quite a good ways) got it home without seeing another person all day, then I turned myself in, and had to pay a reduced fine of $300.00, and the meat got siezed.

But party hunting/poaching robs from other people. You are killing animals illeagaly that somebody else would love to take leagal. That person that actually has a tag might not get a deer because you poached one for your father.

Todd

Accidentally shoot a 2x3 on a spike hunt and turn yourself in pay a fine and lose a couple hundred pounds of meat. Now that was genuis if I ever heard of it.

yeah?
still bettter than getting caught with it.

JaH did the right thing - i am disappointed that the state chose to penalize him for doing the right thing. these incidents should be investigated and honest mistakes (along with honest admission of mistakes) should be rewarded with a "thank you" rather than penalized with a fine.

quote:

Originally posted by tasunkawitko:
JaH did the right thing - i am disappointed that the state chose to penalize him for doing the right thing. these incidents should be investigated and honest mistakes (along with honest admission of mistakes) should be rewarded with a "thank you" rather than penalized with a fine.

disappointed but not surprised.
they are the buisness of making money and spending it as fast as they can.
Most DNRs are more corrupt than the mafia.
We had a strech of state WMS land get clear cut and the timber sold for 50% below market value. who do you think made the money?

In Alaska we have Russians who are not US citizens that poach year round.You never see them during regular hunting season because they know they might get caught then.I tired to turn them in for shooting grizzlies out of serason on 4 wheelers guess what fish and games answerr was.The game warden was off and they said it might rain away way and they couldnt do anything.They shoot ravens which are totally protected.They have shot entire herds of caribou and picked out the legal bulls and left other cows and calves to rot.I totally lost respect for the Fish and Game in Alaska over the way they let russians get away with everything.They will snare moose and let them die in snares.They will fish and hunt till all 12 of their kids have limits.I caught one with 52 grouse and 4 tiny kids.They judge lets them off easy too.I had a friend catch a russian with a cow and calf moose in his driveway they shot.The russian threathened my 78 year old friends life if he told.The game warden came out and did nothing.They finally caught the guy and let him off with a $250 fine wehich he didnt pay and didnt get in trouble.They will wipe out every thing in Alaska.The army are the only person they are scared of.It is going to make me move from Alaska after they wipe out everything.