DBKING How close is close enough for you How far is to far. Any of you complaining about far shots should only be bow hunting other wise you are taking unfair advange of the game. Or better yet use a spear then you have to be really close. Dosen't take much of a hunter to get with in a 100 yards of game even 50 is fairly easy its getting down to 25 yards and under that's hard.

In case we're still discussing the .30-06, here's one way to look at it:

If one is fond of .30 caliber bullets there are certainly a lot of available cartridges from which to launch them. Everything from the 30-30 or 7.62x39 all the way up to the .30-378 Weatherby, and whatever new .300 magnums that have been introduced this week of which I have not yet heard.

Anyway, take your pick, it's no big whoop.

However, for my money, the .30-06 is a very BALANCED round. The fact that it's available just about anywhere bullets are sold adds to its appeal (to me, at least).

So there's your .30-06 "logic". The owners of all other .30 caliber rounds will have an equally compelling bit of "logic" to support their round, and we can all be happy.

DBking you need to listen up to pdogshooter,he's really got shit figured out. Pdog got so tired of putting the smack down on animals at close range.Just to skilled and talented.That he now only shoots animals at long range from a pick up window, bench or with mechanical aid,becuase its so challenging and difficult. Ya pdogshooter,even has his old lady convinced that the width of a dollar bill is 12inches.

I was trying to figure a logical way to put this down, but can't so I'll say it and see what happens.
People that post on these boards live all over the place. They hunt on various terrains and encounter various types of game at differing distances. Opinions about what is good or bad are often based on the poster's thoughts and experiences.
I was thinking that where I hunt, you'd have to work to get a shot over 250 yds. Most animals are taken under 200 yds. With that in mind, I can't see any use for any type of magnum, new or old. A 30/06 is just about as powerful and flat shooting as you need here.
I suppose what I'm saying is that there are too many variables to say anything difinitive about a 30/06 or any other rifle cartridge. You'd have to be specific on animal, normal distance encountered and stay away from the "what if" or marginal percentage/rare scenarios.
I read much more than post, and am often fascinated or amused at answers to questions like this one. WRT bottlenecked cartridges, the 30/06 is the most powerful one I own. In my circumstances, it's a winner.

Safe Shooting!
Steve Redgwell
303british.com

RMK there is really no challange in hitting targets at under 300 yards with a rifle it easy beans. I hunt long range and short range the last whitetail I killed was 15 yards. The last ones I let pass where less then 15 feet. Your point is what you do not know how to get closer then a mere couple of hundred of yards.

The subject of shooting long range is stupid. Hunting to me isn't about the kill. I won't shoot over 350 yards. I don't think it is fair to the animal. and you people who do, shouldn't. If you get to excited when you see horns or antlers 500yds away change sports. I will pass them up if they are that far away. I will however take out a camera if i have one and take a picture or just sit back and watch the beautiful animal for a while if I can't get closer. and for the guy who says take up bowhunting. give me a break. I bowhunt, but most of these yahoo's on here barely can aim a scoped rifle let alone a bow. please quit recommending that, you are going to get a lot of whitetails injured. RMK and the rest of you arguing sound like my two sisters having a fight. a bunch of whiny bitches.

I'm with Wismon on this. The 30-06 is a very balanced cartridge offering a combination of trajectory, energy, and recoil that makes it effective for most real world hunting situations. So does the .308. The .300's add some performance but at a cost generally in recoil. They certainly are fine cartridges to hunt with but are no magic cure for lack of shooting or hunting skills. As Ray so truthfully said, there is not that much difference in the real world with anything between a 7x57 and a .300 Weatherby. The rest is all an argument over penis size.

Jeff

In my opinion the 30-06 is a jack of all trades for the one gun hunter. It does everything adequately, but little exceptionally. It is a good compromise round.
I have no interest in it because I use rifles more specialized for a specific purpose. If I am hunting larger game, I would much rather have a 300 Winchester. The difference between the two is more like 300 FPS than what is normally quoted by -06 fans. This means the magnum will kill more efficiently at all ranges when the proper projectile is employed. Of course every 300 becomes a 30-06 at some range, but the -06 also becomes a 30-30 at some range. Are we to assume by this that since the -06 becomes a 30-30 at some range that it is really no more powerful?
This is really specious logic that would only confound the simple.
A magnum has the same real world advantages over the -06, as the -06 has over the 300 Savage. If they mean nothing to you, fine; but the advantages are still there (if you are a rifleman capable enough to employ them).
The magnums shoot flatter and hit harder at all ranges period. You can also load a 200 gr bullet that will shoot flatter than the -06 with a 165 gr. This means that you can have the same or better trajectory of an -06 with a 165 and yet the authority of a 200 grain bullet, and that will be noticeable.

If I am after deer-size game I would much sooner tote a 7mm-08 with a 140 gr. which will shoot just as flat (mine 2950 fps)or flatter than a 30-06 and give similar performance.
My conclusion again, is that the 30-06 is a GOOD compromise rifle, but if I am going to have more specialized rifles I have no use for one.

Personally if I was to be a one-gun hunter I still would sooner use my 300 Win. than an -06; I would have both more authority and more versatility for ALL ranges.

For me the advantages of the 30-06 outweight the disadvantages of the 300 magnums. If I need more gun I'll go to a 338 or 375 which are a lot more gun than any 300. I have loads for both of them that pretty much match the trajectory of the 180 grain 30-06 load. If I can't hit it with that it's too far away.

Big deal,you shot a whitetail at 15 yards and passed on some at 15 feet.So you know how to use a treestand,I'm impressed.

Some of you are missing the point. The 30/06 could be said to be overkill in some areas or marginal/inadequate in others. The cartridge must fit the circumstance NOT the other way around.
Again, because of individual poster's geographic locations, the 30/06 will hailed or harrassed.
Right now, the sales depts are going for the mini mag, super mini mag, ultra super mini mag thing. Many of these cartridges will disappear, but one or two will stick around...like 300 magnums of the past. They will remain because they find a niche and fill it.
The 30/06 has been around for a long time and is ripe for criticism I guess. Some folks figure that there are better cartridges out there. In certain circumstances, yes. You can't argue against its record to date however.

Safe Shooting!
Steve Redgwell
303british.com

For me, if I am going to hunt smaller big game than I would want to use a 300 mag. for; I would reach for something more specifically suited for such game like a 6.5x55, 7mm-08, 25-06, 270 etc. depending on the terrain.
I just cannot presently think of a use for the
-06 that something else does not seem better suited for. This is all largely subjective due to our tastes, except for the fact that the advantages of the 300 mags over the 30-06 are as real as the advantages of the -06 over the 30-40 Krag.

Yes indeed, the 300 mags excell at producing substantially more recoil than the 06 for a marginal gain. That is a good thing.. But they are not as versatile, that (versatility) is a bad thing. 300 mag logic.

Montana Marine, great looking L.H. rifle. Would like to have one just like.

The .338 Win mag, is not that much better than any .300 mag , as a matter of fact in my experience, it isn't ANY better. The 340 Weatherby and .375 H&H are a different story. I am glad I left the .338 crowd, for work that requires a bigger bullet, I will go with my 45/70, either in a Ruger #1, or Marlin 1895, both are very effective on big game to 200 yards. I will say if you use a .338, and you like it, I am happy for ya, I for one am using older and slower rounds the longer I hunt, enjoy the challenge more than the hunt. I edited this post because after reading it, I determined I sounded like a jackass, and probably still do.

[ 11-24-2002, 02:22: Message edited by: AKBman ]

AKB,man,
A 338 with a 300 gr. Woodleigh at about 2400 FPS is the full equal to a 375 H&H with a 300 gr. bullet at 2500 FPS. it may be 100 FS slower but it has better penitration and SD than a 375,they both work the same on Cape Buffalo, and that's a pretty good test in anybodys book, I personally consider it a far better killer than the 45-70 on , both on paper and it the field...

I like the 45-70 cartridge but I don't see that ole punkin roller as the last word in big game rounds..I got off on that kick with a 45-90 about 10 years ago, so I know where your at. I think your having a temporary setback, it apparantly happens a lot around here,and in most folks hunting career and hopefully you will return to your sinces in time.

Ray

Good point, as usual. I use a 300 grain Woodliegh in my 340 at 2600 +/- and it will penetrate anything. A 350 in a .375 at 2350 is also a tremedous combo. Heavier for caliber bullets are too often overlooked and speed is taken to be a replacement. Not true!

I use a 30-06 for Blacktails and Elk in Western Washington. For those of you who have not had the privilege of hunting there it is a tangle of Hemlock, Blackberrys, Alder thickets and such. You can literaly hunt all day and never touch the ground because of the Dead Falls and crap. You will rarely get a shot that is unobstructed by branches and twigs.

I use a 220 grain Hornady. Three years ago I deliberatly shot through a 6" Hemlock to nail a nice 4 pont Blackie. Big and slow is what you need here.

If you really feel getting closer is better hunting then take up bowhunting.To a bowhunter you are only a shooter and not a hunter at any shot over 30yards or so.If you are just jealous others can make longer shots than you quit whining and learn to shoot.

[ 11-25-2002, 03:59: Message edited by: stubblejumper ]

What the hell is there to be jealous about,when it comes to long range shooting. Anybody can make themselves lazy enough to shoot like this and try to pawn it off as hunting.

Anyone can shoot at long range but few can consistantly hit game properly at longer ranges.The only way to develop long range shooting skills is by shooting at longe range targets so most people who only shoot at close range have poor long range shooting skills.Let the whining resume.

[ 11-25-2002, 06:07: Message edited by: stubblejumper ]

It's pretty tough to gut shoot a paper or steel target.

I know all about the heavy weight bullets, have shot 250 grain Barnes Originals in my .300 Win mag, they have great sectional density, but I will say at 2600fps, they did have a bite in the recoil department. As for the 45/70, I have put a 520gr Cast Flat Nose lengthwise through a Hereford bull at 35 yards, brisket entry, roast exit, one hell of a wound channel. I have on occasion been known to take a Savage Model 99 in .300 Savage elk hunting, performance was flawless at 160 paces, Remington 180gr Core Lokt. It really boils down to personal preference. Performed a whole heap of non-scientific tests trying to see which caliber/bullet combo would penetrate the deepest, used the old wet and dry newsprint, magazines, moose legbones, and gallon ziplock bags full of water, it was fun, and messy, calibers tested were, my .300 Win mag, 45/70, 30'06, .44 mag, and 454 Casull, his guns were a .338 Win mag, 35 Whelen AI, .375H&H, .458 Win mag, and an 1886 converted to 50 Alaskan. Outcomes were suprising to say the least, opened my eyes to some of the underated cartridges, results are way to long for me to type, but I will say his 35 Whelen AI was a big winner, as was the 50 Alaskan, even though the loads were at Blackpowder levels. What looks good on paper doesn't always hold true in the field, things happen that shouldn't, and don't happen when they should, point is there are no givens, and I feel the shooter is the most important part of the equation, rest is pure theory and formula.

Well shit . . . Not at all a "one gun hunter" . . . I don't hunt.

The 30-06 I own is a 1942 Springfield Garand. I like it fine. Better than fine.

I'm pretty sure all those "magnum" chamberings are a manufacture conspiracy to sell you more powder and barrels.

O.K Back to the subject- I shoot the 06 becuase it was my one gun, still have it now even though I got another rifle for Big game, will I ever get rid of it -No becuase it will kill everything in NA- And yes it will do the Big Bears as well!! Has been for many years. There's alot of Alaskan's that carry nothing but the '06.

I think both the '06 and .308 are excellent rounds. As has been said, both are more than adequate for the ranges at which 95%+ of the game is taken. There are far more 350 yard rifles and cartridges than there are 350+ yard riflemen. If you don't think so, just go and check out any rifle range and add them up.

Stubble,
You hit the nail on the head, saying "lots of people huntlong rage, but very few can consistenlty hit and cleanly take game at extended ranges." And that is my whole problem with the "typical" long-range shooter.

"I'm a long -range hunter" has become a badge of honor. Of the guys that THINK they are long-range hunters, 10% are the real deal, 90% are ass-shooters, and wounders.
I can hit game "well" to 300 yards. I try my best to keep my shots within 200 yards.

John Ringo-You are twisting my words.I said anyone can shoot at long range I did not say lots hunt at longe range.Yes it is true many people shoot at game farther than their skill allows them to be accurate.By the same token many so called hunters shoot at running game or through bush and think that this is better than shooting at long range when in fact their odds of making a clean kill are no better than people who shoot too far.There are also many people out their that never practise or properly sight in their gun that miss or wound a lot of game at quite close distances.

p dog shooter, what's the matter can't you use hunting SKILLS to get closer to your
prey than 378 yds! It is one thing shooting ground rats on an open plain, than to
shooting deer sized animals where you can use HUNTING SKILLS to get as close to
your prey as possible. Maybe you think it is manly and skillful to shoot an animal from
so far away it has no idea anything is around. You should read John Taylor(Pondoro)
who said get as close as you can and then get 10 yds. closer. As far as I am
concerned you just keep hunting the way you you think is correct, just don't
bitch about those of us who consider HUNTING SKILLS as something more
than shooting something from as far away as possible. Like

Being from Texas and having lived in Wyoming for 15 years I figure RMK as one of Wyomings embarassments. I like the 30-06, fits right into my hunting ability and is lighter than my 300 Win Mag which I didn't buy to extend my range but to put more energy on target at ranges under 400 yards. I have hunted over feeders, from tripod stands and tree stands and none of these methods gaurantees a kill. All require stamina and putting up with the weather but most of all patience. Of all the places I have hunted Wyoming was by far the easiest place to get a shot at a game animal. Getting a trophy whitetail off of public land in Texas is far harder than getting a big bull elk off public land in Wyoming. Methods used in Wyoming will only get you footsore. In fact most Wyoming residents don't have the foggiest idea how to hunt really thick cover.

the 30-06 with the right handloads is good out to near 800 yards easily on deer and much further on humans,hot-loaded its at least a 700 yd round on deer if you can hit them,witha 165gr. load or better it'll do the job well out to that range(no shit),i know some guys that got some 308 rounds loaded with 175gr. bullets or slightly heavier from the military(these guys build rifles for some guys at bragg and they get cases of mil-spec rounds for their work) and they clocked them at around 3000fps(no bull,ft.bragg)so,that tells you what the 308 will do with out of the ordinary mil spec rounds,so the 3006 will do alittle better with some out of the norm powder.course this powder is out of civy's hands,its out there.the 3006,handloaded will compare with the 300 win. mag anyday,if you know what you're doing and know how to experiment without blowing yourself up,i know from experience,it'll do what you need for deer at nearly any range for deer.factory rounds"blah",but hot handloads yes for a fact....

shot a deer about 125yds at dark,hit her at the base of the skull,exit the mout,brains and all,course i couldnt see them clearly,used rem.165gr. core-locks,had i been using my handloads of nosler bt's the head would have vaporized as my loads would have been going well over 3000fps vs. 2860 fps......"speed kills quicker than slower speed"as in car wrecks,the faster you're going,the quicker chances you're gonna die,i know from law enforcement experience.these 45 loads(win.ranger loads,230gr'ers)
0 we carry at less than 900 fps dont kill as quick as 40 caliber 135gr.loads at 1350fps or faster nor as quick as 357 125gr. loads at 1450fps,i know that from shooting deer with the same human defense loads....SPEED KILLS SOONER!

oh,by the way the 308 is just as good as the 3006,ijust use my 308 as much,i got a ruger 77mk11 16 1"2 barreled short gun,ill wait till my 3rd deer this year for that rifle,used a 7.62by 39 sks for one shot kills last year(huge exit wound withe 124gr. hp's at various ranges)or if we're dogging deer i'll use my hungarian ak with the same loads,on semi/burst fire(30 to75rds).....3006 and 308 are both good round s out to unlimited ranges for anyone......

AAAHHH! Just gotta love the evolution of friendly fireside chats. The initial post, that being the one at the begining, far in the past in a galaxy far far away... The points are valid about the '06 but the discussion is of little value as the same can be said of ANY cartridge that exists or ever will. It only leads you into a nasty little circle without end. The '06 when in the proper hands is capable of what it's capable of, no more or less. Same for the .308. The important part is the "shooter". Can that individual put the weapon to use within those parameters?

As for the long/short range debate, you only have to live with the choice YOU make, not others. I've shot game with the muzzle within inches of the quarry, and at the finest the tropical paradise of N. Viet Nam could offer, at very long range and with "unfair advantage". There were certain elements of sport involved in both. When you try to impose your values on others it makes me think you're a Democrat. Give it a rest.......

Somebody needs to re-calibrate their cronograph.

Thanks rickt300,what are you some oil field trash that lived around gillette wyoming.

Yep! I sure do like them there ought-sixes! All you have to do is start a thread like this one, and you won't need firewood all Deceember for the flames you get going!

If things cool down some, I'm gonna start one comparing .270s to ought-sixes...that should get me through January.....416 Rems vs. .416 Rigbys for February, cause it's a colder month, as a rule....

RMK - You are clearly here for an argument and not to contribute anything further than the fact you hate everyone but yourself.

Digital - You make a good point about each rifle being what it is and in the hands of the person who holds it.

Consider a Stratavarios violin would sound like shit in my hands. But a real musician could make almost any old fiddle sound sweet.

This is why most cartridge discussions end up in silliness. We all have our champions and almost always based on what WE HAVE.

Most of this thread is about as foolish as arguing if the Pope is Catholic. The 30/06 has been around almost 100 years now...and it's been the leading cartridge in the world for most of that time. And it still is! This should tell us all something! Granted the /06 has had some advantages being a military cartridge etc...but its fame and popularity clearly run a LOT deeper than just this.

Someone said the /06 wasn't EXCEPTIONAL at anything. I would agree with one exception.
The /06 IS EXCEPTIONAL at being VERY GOOD at probably more things put together than any rifle out there. It still gets my vote for the all-around rifle. And I don't honestly see anything really close to it on the horizon.

This does NOT detract in any way from the excellent qualities of many other fine calibers. This discussion does NOT have to be one way or the other, at least in my mind.

Sure RMK I first went to Wyoming to work in the oil field and in reality proud of it. It takes a brave, smart pay attention type of character to work in the oilfield long and keep his fingers. On the other hand there were guys like you, can't hold your liquor, keep a job, haven't got the slightest idea how to treat women. Speakin of which watchin you guys starve to death searchin for stump broke sheep in a land with no stumps below 7000 feet cracks me up. And the important part, you sure couldn't make it anywhere else in the world because knowing how to act in civilization is not one of your traits. By the way I worked an area from Rock Springs, Wyoming to Idaho Falls,Idaho to Coalville, Utah and spent some time on rigs north of Denver. You still living at your momma's boy.