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my $.02, CHC, I'm about as sensitive as anyone about bashing Texas hunting as you probably know from viewing my posts. I would not at all take this as bashing Texas hunting. Rather a difference of opinion as to size, style, custom, perception and nomenclature. GWB | |||
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I agree with what your saying, bit I think you know just as well as I do, it only takes one or two responses about how hunting is done in Texas, to go from a conversation into a bashing. JMO, but as someone else mentioned on the original subject, many of the "Hunts That Were A Waste Of Time/$$$$", are the result of the person/people involved, letting the excitement/anticipation of the Hunt?, over ride their normal caution when getting involved with such a project. Again, JMO. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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CHC, And that just gives us Texas hunters who love hunting ethically in this state another opportuntity to post here, and to step up and set the record straight, all the while treating folks with courtesy and respect, hoping that we can help them understand and respect our local customs. And, lacking that , we can implore them.... to go and TAFFAARD and KMA. respectfully, GWB | |||
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  You are right. No arguement here with your comments. BUT, Somewhere, Sometime, and HOPEFULLY, BEFORE, hunting of ANY kind gets outlawed, HUNTERS, or the people that CLAIM to be hunters, will get it into their heads, that hunting takes many forms, and what some might find objectional in one area or region, is perfectly legal and ethical in another. The democrats and the anti's don't have to concern themselves with the death of hunting, hunters and their inability to stand together is doing the job quite well. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Thank you Gee.. Not "bashing" my home state at all.. As a matter of fact, I will defend hunting there fiercely as I always have. I have to alot out here in AZ (ingnorance to hunting in TX). My point wasn't so much with Warren's hunting place at all so much as it has to do with me finally having enough of reading ES's rhetoric on here time and time again. I had just had my fill. Time and time again, I see him getting into pissing matches with folks on here over this and that.. And time and time again, he refuses to see the bigger picture. Point in case.. Myself (along with 95% of all other hunters, non hunters, etc) would say that it could be 400 hundred acres of the damned Amazon jungle, for Christ sake..It doesn't matter how thick a piece of property is.. 400 acres is just that..400 acres. No matter what the hell is growing on it or where it is. THAT was my point with ES. And to CHC, and as to staying onto the correct path of the topic subject matter. If seeing a paying client (RREESE) get the big chorrizo in the ass from some lame duck like the Warrens by paying a rather substancial hunt fee, only to be duped into hunting a 400 acre trap that was made to look like a "ranch", paying top dollar to hunt the biggest buck on the "ranch", then being told you can't shoot this one ("breeder buck", or too young, or too big etc.), is well within the guidlines of this subject. This subject being "Biggest waste of Money hunt" and all.. And I will disagree with you on your statement of hunters themselves in their inability to stand together will be the death of hunting. Its unscrupulous "outfitters" selling hunts in 400 acre traps to unsuspecting hunters who are stepping in and doing that job for us just fine. | |||
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Keith Warren is a pushy liar. I got a dvd of his on hunting exotics in Texas a few years ago. There was a guy that was there on his own dollar who was "guided" by Warren into shooting a very small axis deer after a quick stock so they could use it on the show. Then he said it was a nice buck for a novice (the guy was in his 40's). Not too impressed. And 400 acres of trees is still only 400 acres. The area where we hunt elk in Wyoming is about 20 miles by 20 miles. You will see most of it in 8 or 9 days in October hunting either horseback or on four wheelers. 400 square miles versus .8 square miles. Even a heavily timbered section that could be 3000 acres is still a pretty small area to hunt. Bash Texas is part of life on this forum. I like Texas, but as Tracy Byrd says Pride is the biggest thing in texas. Humility is a good quality! | |||
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So, high fenced or not high fenced, you feel that 400 acres, regardless of the vegetative cover, is too small an area to hunt. Now am I wrong or is that what you are saying? Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Moja – I’ve seen your DVDs for sale and have read a couple of your articles, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen you hunting in North America. Have you done a lot of big game hunting in North America? I think a video of you and some African PHs elk hunting here would make a great DVD…  | |||
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I'm not here to preach to anyone......I'm just here to defend a segment of the hunting community. Just because some of you don't want to hunt on 400 acres, doesn't mean it's wrong/bad/unethical.....it's simply your OPINION. Remember, they're just like assholes....everybody's got one. You can go back and read every post I've ever made on AR.....you will see that I've never criticized another person for their hunting preferences (weapon, area, method, fence, no fence, etc ). Several of you, namely Scottyboy at the moment, insist on condemning a very legitimate form of hunting, just because you don't like it or agree with it. Different strokes for different fokes. If you don't want to hunt on 400 acres, then don't.....nobody's gonna make you. But don't sit here and tell me than I can't, or that Joe Blow can't. Just for argument's sake.....I'll put one of my puny little high fence "pen" experiences on here. In August of 2007, while I was down visiting my good friend (who is also a TPWD wildlife biologist) near Victoria, we visited a 500 acre high fenced whitetail property. The property had been fenced for 6-8 years and had approx. 100 deer on it (1 deer per 5 acres). That sounds like a lot, and it is, but let me tell you Jack.....these deer were NOT tame or anything even resembling the word "tame". About 75% of the property was covered in brush, along with a few feeders, blinds, and food plots. In the owner's house, there was a set of 8-point sheds (4 on each side). The sheds were from the buck when he was 5 years old and they scored 170-175. They had been trying to kill that buck for 4 years and could never find him during hunting season. They would see him every summer, but then once the velvet came off.....poof.....he disappeared. The buck was then 8 years old and as far as I know, they still haven't killed him. That's my little story.....take it for what it's worth. But in my experience, you can't just say "small acreage = canned hunt" because even the most avid hunter can be outsmarted by a mature whitetail buck on less than 500 acres. And FYI those sheds are, still to this day, the most impressive antlers I've ever held in my hands and I've held sets of antlers that would push 300". They were absolutely amazing. _______________________________________________________ Hunt Report - South Africa 2022 Wade Abadie - Wild Shot Photography Website | Facebook | Instagram | |||
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I know this is getting to be off topic but that seems to be the direction the thread is taking I'm not going to get involved in a pissing contest but I can relate to both sides. Last year I hunted with an outfitter out of Jardine Montana, which is just up the mountain from Gardiner, which I understand is the only all year long entrance to Yellowstone. Hunting there was totally different from here. First day hunting we rode horses for 7 hours. I don't know how many miles we covered, but I bet we covered at least 10. I Saw quite a few mule deer. They seemed dumb as rocks. Ride right up to them on horses. No self respecting Texas white tail deer would allow for that. Saw big horn sheep and bull elk over in Yellowstone, probably 5 miles as the crow flies. Being as this was a migration area and the elk had not yet migrated down due to mild weather there were no bulls. We could have covered 100 square miles outside the park and probably not encountered any bulls. But that’s hunting there. Year before I hunted public land between Montrose and Ouray Colorado. Was there 8 days. Saw 5 elk and a bear the first 15 minutes of the season. Rode my 4 wheeler 23 miles one way one day, just to get to a place to spend a couple of hours walking in to sit there all day and not see an animal. Didn't see but one other mule deer the rest of the time. Enjoyed the scenery but not the hunt. In the Texas Hill country the white tail deer are everywhere, and many places does are thick as ticks on a hound dog. Its nothing to count 100 deer on the 40 or so miles between Sabinal and Vanderpool. The deer and hogs are there, they don't have to migrate. Here we use bait. Montana they don't. What is local custom here is unethical or illegal there. I don't have a problem with high fence operations. That's free enterprise. I do have a problem with things being misrepresented. I've hunted Texas all my life from our 140 acre farm in East Texas to the 30,000 acre ranch I'm now hunting on. Never hunted high fence. Never paid a trophy fee. I've either been invited to hunt or had an annual lease where we basically paid a tresspass fee for annual access and had an agreement as to the number of deer/turkey/hogs that could be taken. Always been honor system and self policing. Would I shoot deer on a 400 acre trap. Yes if invited, yes on a cheap hunt that was billed as a meat hunt. Would I pay to “hunt/shoot” a trophy buck and maybe even pay a trophy fee on same 400 acre trap, no I would not. And I would know in advance what I was getting into. I think part of the problem is semantics. Where we might call taking game on a 400 acre high fenced trap "hunting", others wouldn't. An example I've given before, during my Montana hunt, I passed on two good mule deer bucks I walked up in broken timber because I was looking for a better buck. The buck I shot on the last day of season was taken simply because I had a tag to burn and the guide said he would like to give the meat to his grandmother. I shot the deer and cooked the backstraps for all the guys in camp and gave him the rest. Where I shot the deer you could see 10 miles in just about any direction. Glass the area and you could pick out groups of mule deer every which way. Rode right down towards them on horses and they’d just stand there and look. Dumb as a box of rocks. Was this hunting or shooting. Anyway the guide asks me to shoot this buck. I said ok. I got off my horse. Pulled the rifle out of the scabbard, untied my shooting sticks off the back of the saddle, took my backpack off. Took the bikini scope covers off my rifle, sat down on a big boulder, set up my shooting sticks, waited for two doe to get out of the way and shot the buck at 130 yds. Probably took five minutes from the time I got off the horse till the time I fired. No challenge whatsoever. I’ve made the statement that this was the closest I felt like I ever have come to sinning with a rifle. But I got over it when eating the marinated backstraps. A self respecting Texas white tail deer would have been gone about 3 seconds after I swung off the horse, if not sooner. This was out on Deckard flat, in an area you could see for 10 miles in any direction, not a 400 acre trap. However , would trying to stalk a wary whitetail buck that is on his own turf that can see, smell and hear you coming a long way off and blends into the brush like nothing you’ve ever seen, even though contained in a 400 acre “trap” be any less of a “hunt”? GWB | |||
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This was what I was trying to get at, just did not get my point across. Too many folks on this site go on autopilot any time hunting and Texas are mentioned in the same paragraph, let alone the same sentence. I don't completely like the way things are done here, I don't like the fact that many Texans have been forced out of deer hunting because of the prices being charged. One of the reasons I prefer hunting out of state is because there is actually Public Land available for hunters, but not everyone can or even wants to hunt that way. Does that mean that I won't hunt in Texas, No. Does that mean that I feel people that hunt in Texas are less of a person, as a hunter, than someone that only hunts wilderness areas in the Rockies. Again, the answer is No. That is the BS that I am talking about, things are done the way they are in Texas, because of the system that is in place here. If the system was not somewhat acceptable to others, the sales of hunting and fishing licenses to Non-Residents would not be increasing annually, which it has been for the past 10 years or so. Also, from my experiences from the Guided hunts I have been on, the guides, if they are any good, know where the game is at, and even though the area being hunted in may contain hundreds of thousands of acres, the guide knows which couple of hundred acres a good bull or buck has been hanging out in. It is that,"Well My Idea Of Hunting Is The Only One That Is Valid", that I do not agree with. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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10/4 on that CHC. GWB | |||
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The biggest waste of money hunt to me is any hunt for javelina that costs you anything. Again, because I've been a hunter longer than most, I can't believe people pay to hunt javelina. They've been vermin as long as I can remember. Ranchers wanted you to kill as many as you found. The most I ever shot at one time was nine. It was fun, but I wouldn't pay money to do it. Another waste of money is bird hunting in Africa. At $5.00 a bird, I consider it not worth doing. | |||
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GWB & Crazyhorse, Two thumbs way up..... _______________________________________________________ Hunt Report - South Africa 2022 Wade Abadie - Wild Shot Photography Website | Facebook | Instagram | |||
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Times have changed, ranchers have realized that hunters can and will pay to hunt javelina. Your opinion is nothing new, nor is it one that I don't have thrown at me quite often, and it is not the hunt for everyone. But not everyone thinks like you do or like I do. I personally can not see why people want to pay such big money for a big racked white tail buck or a bull elk, or go to Africa and only bring back a set of horns and a hide. I hunt because I enjoy it for the most part, but mainly for meat. If you think that by making the comment about javelina the way you did was going to bother me, well your pretty ignorant. The folks that come and hunt with me, seem to enjoy it, occasionally I do have repeat customers, but I do not count on it, because for most people shooting a javelina is a One Time deal. The repeat customers I do have, I really appreciate, because I know that they are not coming back just to hunt a javelina, but because they had a good time and I did a good job of providing them with a good hunting experience. Times are changing for hunters all over the world, what was once an accepted way of doing things is dieing out. Once you convince a landowner that people will pay to hunt something that was once thought of as a pest, attitudes change and people stop looking at things as a pest or a nuicance, they start seeing an added source of income for their operation. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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I believe the reason for this is "hunts" like the one mentioned. I am a Texan, have a lifetime Texas hunting license, and hunt there every year. I also do not have a problem with high fences and hunt exotics behind a fence most years, but to conduct the hunt on 400 acres and call it a trophy is a load of crap. As far as full disclosure from Keith Warren, I used to watch his show a lot when I lived in Texas and NEVER saw an episode where he discolsed ANY ownership interest in Dripping Springs Ranch. I always assumed he did have an interest though, because it seemed to be the only damned place he hunted in Texas. ____________________________________________ "Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." Terry Pratchett. | |||
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Indeed, no human being has yet lived under conditions which, considering the prevailing climates of the past, can be regarded as normal. John E Pfeiffer, The Emergence of Man Those who can't skin, can hold a leg. Abraham Lincoln Only one war at a time. Abe Again. | |||
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 EXACTLY!!! I am also a lifetme license holder back home in TX..Also hunt back home every year as well, on some properties that are high fenced. Am intending on putting the hurt on a big fallow and sika buck come 1st week of September with my muzzleloader.. | |||
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Yes, I've done lotsa hunting in N.A., but in those early days I didn't have a cameraman alongside me. I'll include lotsa new N.A. stuff on the hunting show. Moja | |||
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D99 Care to take the Jeffe Challenge, just to make things interesting? How hard can it be to find a 55 gallon LIME GREEN drum, in 1100 acres, under high fence? Step right up, sir, and show us all how easy it is to beat a Texan at his own game. 1100 acres, a puny little patch, as compared to you 20x20 miles, or about 256,000 acres. 1100 acres, or LESS THAN 1/2 of 1 percent of what you say you can cover in 8 or 9 days le'ts take 9 days, and convert to hours thats 216 hours and the place is less than .005 of that area, but we'll use that, .005 as much. and since you would be new to texas, we'll double that.. 1% you should be able, then, by your own reckoning, to cover the entire area in about 2:15... But I'll give you two full hunting days, dawn till dusk, to prove me wrong. I reckon we could gather a couple witnesses to join us, should you decide to put me in my place. Step right Up, and put me in my place!
Since drums don't move, and high fence is repugnant, and 2 days hunting represents a weekend hunt, you can put your money where your mouth is. I'll place a 55gallon neon green drum on about 1,100 acres under high fence. It will be in a place I have actually seen feral hogs, or even taken one. You will have from dawn till dusk for 2 days to find it. If you find it, I will pay your flight, your hunting license, and your daily rates. Meanwhile, if you can't find it, you pay the same ammount to me. cash I'll go hunt hogs on 11,000 acres waiting for you to give up as you have no idea what you are getting into, but you'll get to see eland, blackbuck, barrasingha, and various other exotics. Now, I am certain there will be little petty reactions, but the wager is "put your money where your mouth is, and show us how superior your ways are." ..And, of course, you get to embarass ME by having a picture taken with said 55gallon barrel, and me handing over a fistful of dough to cover your expenses. Now, of course, there's the possibility of that OTHER photo, though.... opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Can’t wait to see it! If you want to experience the best NA has to offer, go after bugling elk with a bow. I’m not a bowhunter but went on my first archery elk hunt last year in New Mexico (Gila NF). It was hands down the most exciting hunt I have ever been on. I don’t think I can go on another elk hunt with a rifle again. Good luck to you this year! | |||
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That's quite a challenge: the gauntlet, she has been thrown down.  I'm not holding my breath for any takers, but I wish someone would, just to see the end result. It certainly would settle one of many of the common arguments--for one side anyway, I'd think! BTW, the 216 hours figure is a bit misleading. One does not generally hunt/travel 24 hours a day... ______________________ Hunting: I'd kill to participate. | |||
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Jeffe, Correct me if I'm wrong but as I recall you made this offer a year or so ago to someone else during a wrangle about "hunting" in Texas. As I recall, I said I would sweeten the pot then. Although I'm not as flush as I was then, I will once again offer to sweeten the pot and add $500 to your offer, with the caveat that if they do not find the barrel, they owe me nothing. Not a bad bounty for up to two days "hunting" GWB | |||
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KG certainly 216 hours is a measurement.. d99 said he could cover 256,000 acres in 8 or 9 days, and i made it "Easy" to convert.. the same scale, 1/3, works just fine... 2:15/.333 means 6:45mins ... and I am "affording" 2 full days to cover 00.5% of the same area... if you do the math, covering 1100 acres in 2 days is like spending 4.9 YEARS on 256,000 acres. No one ever takes the challenge .. no offense to D99. I feel that the folks that YAK the most about this not being fair hunting in texas are the same guys that will come up with the most (outrageous?) excuses. Its a simple challenge .. find a 55 gallon barrel painted neon/school bus/firetruck green .. leaves MIGHT fall on it, but it won't be hidden or buried or underwater. Its a measly 1100 acres, within a high fence, and parts of it look like a Park. Come On, ya'll .. someone make a fool out of me on this, lets have a picture of you and I, standing before a barrel with me handing you money ... you get to prove me wrong.. for free. but, there's alway the chance of the other picture..... but, its 1100 acres, a mere backyard to ya'll "wide open country" fellas opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Wow, GW.. the 500 offer, without risk on their end, is pretty sweet ... should be enough for some fella from a distant land, to come on down, ultimately for free, and not bruise his ethics, and prove that its child's play to hunt in texas <No, Rob, Neal, Dave, Chris, you can't get in on finding the barrel,,,, but you can help me hide it> opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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jeffeosso, This may be one of the "petty reactions" you have already unfairly dismissed (and I don't really have a dog in this fight) but barrels are NOT eland. You are making a comparison between two things that stacks the bet in your favor and does not represent effectively the debate at hand. Predators hunt by movement. It is much easier to hunt ANY animal (even a very elusive one) than a stationary object. If there are Eland on the property, the death of one of them is a foregone conclusion when an Eland hunter arrives. If you made your same offer but substituted a single 2000 pound Eland with a big pink X painted on his torso for the stationary barrel, I think you would have MANY MANY takers. JMHO, tendrams | |||
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No sir.. the complaint HERE is elk, previously deer.. and ANY eland hunting in north america is going to be on a fenced place. your "unfairly dismissed" comment told me that you aren't a player, and wouldn't ever agree to the bet, as placed. This is my challenge, but, should you decide to take it, and win, we can try your way, too. Its humorous to suggest killing live game, on a question of hunting ETHICS could be brought into play. I am seeking to avoid tainting anyones ethics, while letting them prove a point As I understand it, shooting game inside a fence is what guys find to be distateful. I wouldn't presume to think anyone ethics could be bought for the price of a head of eland. a 55 gallon barrel is larger than any elk torso, probably larger than nearly any moose cow torso, and several times larger than the common deer, pig, and pronghorn. Fellas puff up their chests, demand that hunting in texas is shooting fish in a barrel, and we are unethical. 55gallon drum .. in an unnatural color, should be darn easy to see. Stalking pigs is MUCH like stalking a barrel. Every experienced pig hunter has WALKED UP on them, laying back, waiting for the threat to pass. Eastern Deer hunters, in the heavy Eastern woods, consider 100 yards to be a longish shot. This makes it all even. Fair. and no question of ethics or shinanigans. Green 55gallon barrel, in ONE SPOT... the price of your expenses is the wager, and GW will throw in 500 bucks if you win. opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Jeffe, One thing is for sure, if someone does take you up on your offer, you might want them to sign a disclaimer, that way if they have heat stroke, get snake bit, ate by a hog, break their ankle while tripping over rocks and boulders, or get lyme disease from tick bites, get stung by wasps, hornets, yellow jackets, or get popped by a scorpion or tarantula while falling into clumps of cactus,or assaulted by wetbacks, they will not hold you liable. GWB PS: One of my buds called me from our lease near Reagan Wells last Friday afternoon. He said his truck thermometer read 104 degrees F. Not bad for early May. If you guys do take Jeffe up, you may want to do this before July or August. It gets hot during those months. | |||
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ants, mesquite, jumping cactus, and nettles , too opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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I would hazard a guess that very few of these folks that want to bash Texas have ever hunted here. The original post was about hunts that people ACTUALLY went on, THAT WERE NOT AS ADVERTISED. These were supposed to be or were "Guided/Outfitted Hunts", that for what ever reason, WERE NOT WHAT THE HUNTER WAS EXPECTING. This whole thread went sideways when folks got to expressing their OPINION about hunts that THEY feel are a waste of time and money. Those are TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TOPICS. A hunt that was conducted and the hunter dis-satisfied or unhappy with the results achieved in relation to the money spent and the time involved is one thing. Running ones mouth over something that they have no desire to attempt, is something completely different. Also, there is one hell of a difference between a guided/outfitted hunt, and a self guided hunt, or there should be. I will use my stupid little Javelina hunts as a prime ass example. My success rate runs right at 100%, On My Guided Hunts. On the self-guided hunts I have offered in the past, I have had repeat customers, hunt 3 days and never even see a javelina, yet we were going into the very pastures they were hunting, after they had finished hunting for the day and killing javelina. The only thing I guarantee my guided hunters is that they will see javelina, and spring turkey on those hunts, and that they will have shot opportunities, BUT I DO NOT GUARANTEE THAT THEY WILL KILL ANYTHING, because I do not know if they can hit their own ass with both hands. Jeffe, I don't think anyone will ever take you or Geedubya up on your offer, simply because they do not want to be proven out to be "Know Nothing Know It Alls" that let their " I Am So Much Cooler On Line Ego's" run the mouths, even though they know nothing about what they are talking about. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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CHC, what is it that plumbers are want to say, hot is on the left, payday is friday don't chew your fingernails, and crap runs downhill. I'm probably as to blame as anyone else for this thread getting off topic and going downhill, but as I said, I'd pay to watch someone on foot try to find a barrel on 1,100 acres on the hill country leases I hunt on in a week, much less a couple of days. GWB | |||
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Well, that about says it all. Maybe. Thanks for the grins, guys. BTW, maybe next year I'll come down to your place for a critter, just for the f*ck of things. If you put the barrel out and I find it, will you buy drinks for the night? That's a bet I'm willing to cover. Coming from Boston, I oughta' get a 3:2 spread, but I'm not looking for a handout...  ______________________ Hunting: I'd kill to participate. | |||
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Back to the topic at hand. I have been on one hunt, here in Texas, that was a pure waste of time and money and 3 hours into the hunt, I told the guys that were with me on the hunt waht a POS it was, we settled up with the folks that were running the hunt, I told them in very easily understanable Texan what I thought of them and their "Operation" and we left the place. One damn thing that I see or hear of too many hunters complaining, "After", a hunt, to me appears to be a case of both "Sour Grapes", and not having the nuts to confront the situation while it is happening. Too damn many folks get their asses all worked up and excited about the prospects, and put their brain in neutral and stop asking about the realities. Any time a person goes into the process of booking a hunt or finds out that they have won a hunt from some contest, they need to start gathering infomation about the hunt, how it is conducted, animal quality/quantity, get references, get success rates and quality of trophies/animals for the past 3 to 5 years. Too many folks get caught up in the moment and stop exercising the same amount and line of reasoning they would normally use in buying a household appliance. While I am probably wrong on this in some cases, I blame hunters themselves for getting in to these messes, simply because they stop paying attention to what is and what is NOT being said. Every hunter should have a few basic questions that they should write down and keep with them at all times when booking a hunt. To me and this is JMO, a hunter booking a possible "Once In A Lifetime Hunt", and in reality, every hunt any of us take, is a "Once In A Lifetime" deal as we might never take another one after the last one, needs to go into the situation as if we were buying a home or a major vehicle purchase, or getting married. It needs to be well thought out and not done in the heat of the moment, or odds are it will end in disaster. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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IMHO it is likely these canned lion hunts in RSA. You have to know going in that you are very close to just picking one out of the pen and shooting it there. If you are an honest person, it must be hard to live with that mounted trophy or rug; knowing that every time you tell a visitor about the fantasy hunt you are lying to them and yourself. I sometimes wonder if the videos of a "charging" lion are actually the animal reacting to seeing people; just like the ones who used to come to his pen every day and throw chunks of meat at him. Man, what a concept. Feed them to get them to come to you, and then exchange the dinner for a couple of big bore rifles. As Gomer Pyle used to say "Sirprize, Sirprize". Rich Buff Killer | |||
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Very well said, CHC. And the same applies not only to guided hunts but also in picking what hunting club situations to get involved with. The problem is, it takes experience to know what to look for. Eventually you figure out some things, but until then... Learning who to trust and how to read people doesn't hurt any and I'd beware those who come across as knowing more about selling and how to run a cash register than about hunting. | |||
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Good points Shack, that is one thing forums like this one are good for. If a person is in the business long enough they will come in contact with enough people that the word will get around as to their character and how they do business, a forum is an excellent place to find out such information. Idaho Sharpshooter, I have met some folks that have done hunts here in the states, similar to what you are describing about the lions, and most of them do not even try to make up some fantastic tale, they openly admit to how thing played out, and in their social circle, it is accepted without reservation. Many folks on here and other places have too idealistic of an attitude toward hunting, both from a historical perspective, and how it happens now. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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I definitely got caught up in the moment. However, I "assumed" duck hunting in Arkansas was a sure thing. Once burnt, twice shy. | |||
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I'll try not to make a whole book of this because I know this is a big game board, but about the reference to Arkansas duck hunting...here're a few tips. Tip #1. When leasing a place, no matter how promising, remember you can't take just any woods or rice field and flood it, put in a blind, throw out decoys and expect something to happen. It doesn't work like that. Get hold of a really good map showing each county in great detail. Compare your county with the top duck areas (if Arkansas, compare with Stuttgart, Brinkley, Fair Oaks, Waldenburg and other such places). What you want is to find out how much water there is. No water = no dux. In the Stuttgart area and in northeast Arkansas you'll see on the map rice water reservoirs one after another. Lakes, ponds, river bottoms, wildlife management areas, nat'l wildlife refuges, bayous, swamps etc are what you're looking for. These hold ducks. If the fields you'll be flooding in your area will be the only water for miles, FORGET it. Think of it like a dove shoot, where the shooting "chases" the birds back and forth between prepared fields. Ducks go back and forth between club areas and water. Think of it like that. Tip #2. Even if the area has water that still doesn't mean you're in business. Some farms the ducks for reasons best known to themselves just ain't interested in (some think you can tell something by flying over an area and looking for certain features - I'm not sure about that). You have to get a reliable history of the place. Which leads to... Tip #3. If thinking of joining a club that otherwise looks great, ask why is the club property now available and/or the previous club no longer there? To ignore this tip is to waste much time and money. You may go out there opening morning and fire your gun once, and get to watch what dux are there get up and leave without returning. In other words the season's over in five minutes because it's just not a spot the dux are all that interested in, regardless of how much flooded rice/beans you may have been shown beforehand. I've had that happen. At this kind of "club" the highpoint of the season is usually the all-night poker game and partying before opening morning. Had that too. Tip #4. Try to book your hunt for the opening weekend so you won't find that most birds are already in someone's freezer. These are frequently reserved for a guide's best customers. Tip #5. If after opening weekend, try to book your hunt to coincide with the arrival of new birds. This in turn coincides with the passing of cold weather fronts, especially with precipitation involved. New birds will be found on the front's leading edge. Tip #6. Don't book for a hunt right after days of heavy rain. Fields will be flooded and the birds will no longer be concentrated where you need them. Tip #7. Don't book for a hunt right after days of sub-freezing temps. If it's all really hard frozen the birds leave for rivers or places only public hunter locals can get at them. Maybe all this will help the learning process some. As you can see, it's no sure thing. | |||
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I spent about $9,000 on a deer lease in Flagler county Florida. I purchased 6 ladder stands. I purchased 4 feeders. I purchased 4 trail cameras. I kept these full for months. It was a lot of work. I guess I was into this for $15,000 to $20,000. I took my sons just before Thanksgiving for one day. We left to play golf. That night the leaseholder's son and 2 other kids got caught spotlighting deer. They were all arrested. I never went back to hunt again. After all that, they kicked the leaseholder off and decided not to lease it again. Now I have to decide if I want to do all the work to get my stuff moved. Google: Deer poaching in Flagler county Florida | |||
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We got hosed by Adam Clements http://forums.accuratereloadin.../6321043/m/268109019 I also went on a 14 day Yukon Dall, Grizz, moose & caribou hunt with Rick Furniss that was a disaster. GOA Life Member NRA Benefactor Member Life Member Dallas Safari Club Westley Richards 450 NE 3 1/4" | |||
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