Anybody ever had one of these? These are those ones that are embarassing to admit, but here goes.

In 1999 as I was getting into big game hunting, I booked with an elk outfitter in Colorado. From the looks of his booth at the hunting show I thought a 350-plus elk was a slam dunk by the end of day 7. I wrote the check for $4000 right there at the show. That was just the deposit! Upon arrival seven months later in the Rockies somewhere near Durango, as the wrangler was saddling up my mule, he demanded the other $4000. I said now? He said, "Yup!"

So I wrote the second $4000 check. In seven days, I did not see, nor hear an elk. $8000, and I never even fired a shot! Outfitter offered me nothing as a consolation. He said, "That's hunting."

Eversince then I've been spendng my dough in Africa, where atleast I'm guaranteed a shot.

Earlier this year in Reno, I saw that elk outfitter who soaked me for 8-grand. Having since seen my picture in some hunting magazines, he invited me to come back to his Colorado area and hunt elk again. He also invited my cameraman, and said "I want to make it right for you this time." He offered me a free hunt!

I told him no saying, "You taught me a lesson last time, now I'm going to teach you one."

Moja

I have been reasonably fortunate and considerall of my hunts well worth the money. Except one. I have been on several Dall sheep hunts, and have been fortunate enough to go with some very good guides. I booked one dall hunt through the a very well known booking agency in the US. This hunt was a total disaster. The guide was a drunk, who insisted on staying near base camp and hunting the valley bottoms. He insisted on waiting for the sheep to cross the valley from one side to another, and continually pointed out tracks in the creek bottom when I voiced objections. A total, lazy, unscrupulous outfitter.

Fortunately, most hunts are great, and even the average ones are a whole lot of fun.

Bill

most everybody who has hunted more than bit has had at least one like yours. i believe its called a learning curve

A display of pixs are nice but I think I'd have checked his references pretty close before I'd have written a check for $4000.00.
He was right in that on a real hunt, there are no guarentees, however the outfitters keep pretty close tabs on the elk herds year around.

In my opnion $8000 for Colorado is Steep.
Yea , Thats caled learning.I have been there
Caribou , Promised to move you in contract but we never got moved and never saw Caribou. Here was the Kicker in this case, My best friend was the booking agent . He and his son were along too, he booked an average 80 people a year with this guy never the less he don't book with him anymore.Cost that guy alot of money and more work.
Like it was said on here Do your home work.
Here is a almost never done Hunting Trip , Last year I was booked on a Mule Deer in Colorado. I call the day before I left and was told doon't come there are no Deer . I was refunded my Deposit , all I lost was $350 on my Tag. I switched my airline ticket to this year in Utah.

I know this is a big game board, but when the subject of waste of money hunts appeared I couldn't help wanting to add this...hopefully no one will mind...it's waterfowling.

Some of us were slickered into a deal at a supposedly great area in Arkansas, probably the top duck state. Professional management was highly touted (look out when you hear that) and we were driven all thru the place on 4 wheelers by a salesman that would do credit to that loud guy on cable..what's his name?

It was several farms involved and woods, fields, bayous and a duck swamp. Terrific in theory. Only $4,000 per gun.

But the promised clubhouse was never finished and some fool drove a tractor thru the levees before the opening and we had no water at all and not the first duck. And the local poachers thought the swamp was a public area. We also found out it wasn't called the Gator Hole for no good reason.

Fortunately I belonged to more than one duck club...

The only time I didn"t believe I got what I paid for was on a whitetail hunt in Mexico. A friend and I blew $6,500 each on the hunt. We were supposed to be hunting a big ranch close to Nuevo Laredo, but we ended up a few hundred miles into Mexico on a new ranch the guy had only recently leased. We were the first hunters, and hunted hard for five days; we saw a couple of spikes and a 120 class eight point that the guide was begging us to shoot.

A couple of months later the outfitter called me and offered a free hunt the following year if I would pay for my permits, but I declined.

quote:

Originally posted by SableTrail:
Anybody ever had one of these? These are those ones that are embarassing to admit, but here goes.

In 1999 as I was getting into big game hunting, I booked with an elk outfitter in Colorado. From the looks of his booth at the hunting show I thought a 350-plus elk was a slam dunk by the end of day 7. I wrote the check for $4000 right there at the show. That was just the deposit! Upon arrival seven months later in the Rockies somewhere near Durango, as the wrangler was saddling up my mule, he demanded the other $4000. I said now? He said, "Yup!"

So I wrote the second $4000 check. In seven days, I did not see, nor hear an elk. $8000, and I never even fired a shot! Outfitter offered me nothing as a consolation. He said, "That's hunting."

Eversince then I've been spendng my dough in Africa, where atleast I'm guaranteed a shot.

Earlier this year in Reno, I saw that elk outfitter who soaked me for 8-grand. Having since seen my picture in some hunting magazines, he invited me to come back to his Colorado area and hunt elk again. He also invited my cameraman, and said "I want to make it right for you this time." He offered me a free hunt!

I told him no saying, "You taught me a lesson last time, now I'm going to teach you one."

Moja

How about giving his name and his outfit. That would "make it right".

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:
The only time I didn"t believe I got what I paid for was on a whitetail hunt in Mexico. A friend and I blew $6,500 each on the hunt. We were supposed to be hunting a big ranch close to Nuevo Laredo, but we ended up a few hundred miles into Mexico on a new ranch the guy had only recently leased. We were the first hunters, and hunted hard for five days; we saw a couple of spikes and a 120 class eight point that the guide was begging us to shoot.

A couple of months later the outfitter called me and offered a free hunt the following year if I would pay for my permits, but I declined.

Please name a name to help someone else from getting skinned.

quote:

Originally posted by Shack:
I know this is a big game board, but when the subject of waste of money hunts appeared I couldn't help wanting to add this...hopefully no one will mind...it's waterfowling.

Some of us were slickered into a deal at a supposedly great area in Arkansas, probably the top duck state. Professional management was highly touted (look out when you hear that) and we were driven all thru the place on 4 wheelers by a salesman that would do credit to that loud guy on cable..what's his name?

It was several farms involved and woods, fields, bayous and a duck swamp. Terrific in theory. Only $4,000 per gun.

But the promised clubhouse was never finished and some fool drove a tractor thru the levees before the opening and we had no water at all and not the first duck. And the local poachers thought the swamp was a public area. We also found out it wasn't called the Gator Hole for no good reason.

Fortunately I belonged to more than one duck club...

I have been hosed on a couple of "duck hunts". The first was Karankawa Goose Hunts south of Houston - all talk, no geese.

The second on a "goose club" out of Katy, Tx. Lots of geese but even more hunters. Never killed a goose due to the over hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by dogcat:

quote:

Originally posted by Lhook7:
The only time I didn"t believe I got what I paid for was on a whitetail hunt in Mexico. A friend and I blew $6,500 each on the hunt. We were supposed to be hunting a big ranch close to Nuevo Laredo, but we ended up a few hundred miles into Mexico on a new ranch the guy had only recently leased. We were the first hunters, and hunted hard for five days; we saw a couple of spikes and a 120 class eight point that the guide was begging us to shoot.

A couple of months later the outfitter called me and offered a free hunt the following year if I would pay for my permits, but I declined.

Please name a name to help someone else from getting skinned.

Laredo Hunt Club. All their references checked out; I think he just decised to use my buddy and me as guinea pigs for a new area.

A few years back (5 or 6?) my hunting buddy Mike watched a Keith Warren show on the hunting channel about a hunt at Hidden Springs Ranch near Seguin, Texas. It showed big bucks and the hunters took a couple nice ones.

We foolishly booked without doing due diligence. What we discovered was 400 acres of high fence owned by - you guessed it Keith Warren. Every time we saw something worth shooting we were told that it was too young or being kept for breeding stock. I finally reverted to meat hunting and shot a couple scrub bucks to fill my freezer.

Mike didn't shoot anything. It was a very disappointing experience. Keith Warren's failure to disclose that he was hawking his own hunting operation on his show was also less than what I would have expected.

With that said, that is the only totally bummer hunt and I have enjoyed multiple hunts in Texas, Colorado,Canada and Africa.

In 2002 in Eastern WA I bought a turkey hunt at a Pheasants Forever banquet. My buddy and I went to Kettle Falls, and day one went fine, other than all the hot spots were right next to the road! I got him to take me off the road and into the hills the next day, and got a nice bird. The guide then got nasty when I wouldn't get it mounted by his neighbor the taxidermist. Meanwhile, while we were hunting that bird, my buddy refused to shoot one out the truck window while driving through private property, so his guide promptly shot it because it had "cool colors." He quickly hopped out of the truck, ran out and grabbed the bird, and tossed it into the back of the truck. Not sure if they're still in business, but I never went back. I'm glad the money went to PF, there's no way I would have paid for that!

quote:

Originally posted by Sally's Dad:
In 2002 in Eastern WA I bought a turkey hunt at a Pheasants Forever banquet. My buddy and I went to Kettle Falls, and day one went fine, other than all the hot spots were right next to the road! I got him to take me off the road and into the hills the next day, and got a nice bird. The guide then got nasty when I wouldn't get it mounted by his neighbor the taxidermist. Meanwhile, while we were hunting that bird, my buddy refused to shoot one out the truck window while driving through private property, so his guide promptly shot it because it had "cool colors." He quickly hopped out of the truck, ran out and grabbed the bird, and tossed it into the back of the truck. Not sure if they're still in business, but I never went back. I'm glad the money went to PF, there's no way I would have paid for that!

WOW! who was that? i live in spokane and this stuff scares me! i hunted with a guy here that drove through NEIGHBORHOODS looking for deer. wanted his 14 year old son to shoot a 4pt as it crossed the road. yup, hunted with him... once.

I honestly can't remember his name, he lives right in Kettle Falls. I orignally bought the hunt at the Tri-Cities banquet as 2 days of ducks and upland birds for 2 people, but his dog cut a paw and we couldn't go, so he offered turkey instead.
I guess it's an old story- most auction hunts are good, but do your research first. I didn't, it was an impulse because the bidding was low, so I thought I got a deal. I did get a nice bird by calling, but overall wish I hadn't done that hunt. My friend Tim has worse things to say, but it was his ears that almost got popped in the truck.
Again, I'd give up the name if I had it, but I've moved twice since then and never thought I was going back. I did a qucik internet search and nothing rang a bell.

Last Year I bought asn eastern turkey hunt at our local SCI auction. Since I couldn't go, I gave it to a buddy. He took another guy to Kentucky at full fare. Turns out the guuy had them hunting on someone elses land and they got into a mess. Guys name was Jay and the locals called him one time Jay as he only had no repaet clients.

Jeff

These stories scare the hell outta me! I can see the occasional bird hunt going poorly but at a few hundred bucks, that's not too distressing. Even the odd management whitetail hunt going south wouldn't be horrific from a financial standpoint. When Dall sheep hunts fall apart though...man that smarts!

I've been very lucky.

I once had what amounted to a late season elephant hunt (PG daily rates with a slightly higher trophy fee) go sideways when the eles migrated out of the area. Still, it was hardly a waste of money as I shot about a ten head of top shelf plains game in as many days (sable included)...and did it at $350 per day which was tough to beat even then. I also went on an "unusccessful" mountain lion hunt once too but we treed up some nice cats (non-shooters that I passed on of my own volition) and that was worth much more than the price of admission. Like I said, I've been lucky.

This wasn't major bucks but I'll toss it in because it borders on humor.

Years ago I got invited on an out West pheasant hunt. 10 guys. Someone set it up and leased the fields. Someone else furnished a big motor home and off we go. The trip out was the best part. Think round the clock poker. Anyway we have this map that's been provided and we follow it to the exact corn fields. And man, they are FULL of birds and we're knocking 'um dead left and right. Then in the distance a big cloud of dusk as a truck is tearing fast in our direction down a gravel road. A farmer gets out and is almost out of his mind MAD at us and kicks us off the place.

Turns out he's worked hard to plant this crop and manage the area for his commercial shooting preserve and is expecting a big group of paying customers in from back East...and guess what? That ain't us. Once again, we been had.

So we drove around and around trying without much luck to find other places. But, I've certainly got to hand it to that farmer, he sure did have the birds. It was about the only pheasants we killed out there...

Shack: That is funny as hell!

Moja

Just to clarify my position on this. I hunted leopard unsuccessfully in Namibia and did the same with sable in Zim. I saw several sable, just not the one I was looking for. I don't consider either of those hunts a waste of money, in fact they were two of my most enjoyable hunts. The game I was after was in the area and I feel I got the best efforts of both PHs. I have also been on other unsuccessful whitetail hunts that I do not feel were a waste of money. I can handle coming home without game, that's hunting, what irks me about the hunt I referenced on this thread is that I paid full price to be a quinea pig for this guy.

Waterfowling in Texas is about the best way there is to get HOSED properly!

I can't tell you how many times i have been totally screwed on duck leases and guided duck and goose leases, ESPECIALLY on the Katy prairie.

It's in a somewhat different class, but I once saw a wealthy out of stater put down 2 million to buy what he thought was one of the most famous, exclusive prime duck hunting club/properties. What he didn't know was everything he heard was from decades ago and that now competing clubs and commercial hunting had sprung up on all sides and they got the first shots at anything in the area and there was really little meaningful hunting left on the place.

Of course now, it can work the other way too. A greedy rice farmer heard of all these big fees the other landowners were charging so he'd just do the same. He quoted some wealthy looking lawyers and such from the nearby big city $15,000 for one season for his duck pits. There was the usual haggling but he drove a hard bargain and let it be known in no uncertain terms, it was strictly take it or leave it. They took it.

The season came to a close and the farmer asked for his money. They refused to pay. He couldn't believe his ears and said "but you boys killed plenty of birds"...and they say "yeah, but it wasn't any $15,000 worth...". And they left. He was so embarrassed over it he didn't even try to sue or anything.

If you really go out there enough you will eventually get "hosed down"; it's just a question of how bad you let yourself in for it.

Got screwed last fall on an elk hunt in Colorado. Not a bad guide service, just no communication between guides. Bowhunting, working a herd of elk trying to figure an angle in - another guide and client cut us off, and kill a barely legal bull. The BS of the situation is this: the other guide knew we were there and did it anyway - the only elk killed in camp, and screwed up the most promising area we'd seen, not to mention wasting a ton of our time. We'd scouted the animals earlier and knew where they were going - he (the other guide) educated and spooked the entire group. What a waste of money.

gd

quote:

I know this is a big game board, but when the subject of waste of money hunts appeared I couldn't help wanting to add this...hopefully no one will mind...it's waterfowling.

I got stuck on one of these hunts. We bid on an Arkansas duck hunt at a local Ducks Unlimited banquet. It was supposed to be a great hunt in the middle of duck country. We won the auction and drove to Arkansas for the hunt. In three days of hunting, we never fired a shot. All the guide could say was, "The ducks were here yesterday." We cut the hunt short and left early.
We decided if we wanted to go duck hunting and not kill anything, we could do it in Georgia for free.

quote:

Originally posted by RREESE:
A few years back (5 or 6?) my hunting buddy Mike watched a Keith Warren show on the hunting channel about a hunt at Hidden Springs Ranch near Seguin, Texas. It showed big bucks and the hunters took a couple nice ones.

We foolishly booked without doing due diligence. What we discovered was 400 acres of high fence owned by - you guessed it Keith Warren. Every time we saw something worth shooting we were told that it was too young or being kept for breeding stock. I finally reverted to meat hunting and shot a couple scrub bucks to fill my freezer.

Mike didn't shoot anything. It was a very disappointing experience. Keith Warren's failure to disclose that he was hawking his own hunting operation on his show was also less than what I would have expected.

With that said, that is the only totally bummer hunt and I have enjoyed multiple hunts in Texas, Colorado,Canada and Africa.

Don't blame Keith Warren. I have met the man several times and he is an honest guy. I've also watched his shows ever since I can remember. He has done many episodes of his show on the Hidden Springs Ranch and he has also told the audience, on several occasions, that it is his family's ranch and that it is 400 acres high fenced.

How can you be mad at them for not letting you shoot bucks that were too young? And obviously you were on the management hunt if you weren't allowed to shoot the large bucks. That is just simply the way Whitetail hunting is usually done in Texas. For example:

Trophy Hunt - usually a buck with more than 8 points and scoring 140+

Management Hunt - usually 8 pointers scoring under 130

Cull Hunt - usually does or extremely inferior bucks

I don't know Keith Warren and have never been to his ranch, but paying outrageous (in my eyes) prices to shoot big deer is a city dweller kind of thing IMO. It is simply not hunting but shooting. I'm all for shooting but somehow I wouldn't feel all that proud of a trophy obtained under such circumstances, and, of course, I wouldn't shoot one anyway.....High fenced hunting is one thing, 400 acres of high fences with protein pellet fed deer is something else......I was just on a high fenced operation a couple of hours S of there, it was a mere 10,000 acres under fence......a different kettle of fish.....

Here's the current Hidden Springs price list.....let's see a 180 inch deer would cost.....oh, a mere $8,500....better have your check book stocked up because if you misjudge and he's 181 then that deer just went up to $10,800.......not for me, never.

PRICING

Trophy Hunts

Up to 160" $6,500.00

160"-180" $6,500.00 + $200.00 per inch

180"-200" $10,500.00 + $300 per inch

Over 200" $16,500.00 + $500.00 per inch over 200"

Management Hunts

Unlimited Score $3,000.00

Eland, I think Kieth Warren started full disclosure after my lawyer buddy got ahold of him. On the show in question, there was no mention of his connection to the ranch.

I'm not sure how long ago it was but Hidden Springs had just opened up and I don't think at the time they had a sliding price scale. And, I was not on a management buck hunt. I was supposed to be allowed one trophy buck and one management buck.

I am well aware of how whitetail hunts are ethically conducted in Texas.

Gatorado, you are correct and had I done any investigation, I wouldn't have gone on the "pen hunt" either. I was stupid -- but smarter now.

I think the thread is on "waste of money" hunts. For me it was a waste of money. Buyer beware. I should have looked before I crossed that road.

RREESE:

I want to be clear, my post was in no way intended to be critical of your choices. If you saw it as such, I want to apologize. We all learn as we go, or, at least we hope we do, sometimes in my case I'm not so sure....... I've had my fair share of bad hunting experiences but nothing that I can think of worth relating at this point where I really felt like I was defrauded, probably because for most of my adult life I was a confirmed bird hunter only.......

I didn't read your comment as criticism at all. In fact I was agreeing with you. Also, I think "defrauded" is way too strong. I don't think there was purposeful fraud. Rather, it was poor communication.

It was my fault for not checking in to things. Hence, my "biggest waste of money".

quote:

Originally posted by RREESE:
Eland, I think Kieth Warren started full disclosure after my lawyer buddy got ahold of him. On the show in question, there was no mention of his connection to the ranch.

I'm not sure how long ago it was but Hidden Springs had just opened up and I don't think at the time they had a sliding price scale. And, I was not on a management buck hunt. I was supposed to be allowed one trophy buck and one management buck.

I am well aware of how whitetail hunts are ethically conducted in Texas.

Gatorado, you are correct and had I done any investigation, I wouldn't have gone on the "pen hunt" either. I was stupid -- but smarter now.

I think the thread is on "waste of money" hunts. For me it was a waste of money. Buyer beware. I should have looked before I crossed that road.

Well I remember the first show he ever mentioned the ranch on.....and he clearly stated that it was his family's place and they were in the process of putting up the fence. Just because you didn't see this episode doesn't mean it didn't happen. But anyways.....it's nobody's fault. You just had a different hunt pictured in your mind than what you ended up getting and I know that can suck.....I've had it happen once too.

....and to RREESE & Gatogordo,

I completely understand your thoughts and opinions regarding sliding scales on deer hunts. It's not for me.....but I'm not condemning it. If someone else is okay with it.....that's great.

Personally I like a price structure based on "Trophy", "Management", and "Cull" with minimal score emphasis.

For instance:

Trophy hunt for a mature (5.5+ year old) buck over 150" = $6,500

Management hunt for a mature (5.5+ year old) buck between 115-150" = $3,000

Cull hunt for mature bucks under 115" = $1,000 each

......or something to that effect. Just my 2 cents. Take it for what it's worth.

And we'll just have to agree to disagree that a 400 acre property is a "pen" because it my opinion it is not even close to being a pen, as long as it has ample thick cover for the deer.

quote:

Originally posted by Eland Slayer:
And we'll just have to agree to disagree that a 400 acre property is a "pen" because it my opinion it is not even close to being a pen, as long as it has ample thick cover for the deer.

That is a pen if I've ever heard of one!! 400 ACRES? Come on, dude.. It seems that you need to get out of east/cental TX for awhile and go hunt elsewhere for a change. 400 acres is a front yard in MT/WY/NV/AZ/ID/AB/SK etc!!! No matter how much arguing you do on here (which is pretty much anyone says anything regarding high fence or TX hunting) you aren't going to convince ANYONE on this site that a sham high fence "ranch' is a real hunt!! Hell, I'm from the heart of the high fence part of TX, and have hunted alot of them, but to call 400 acres a ranch is a joke.. And then to sell hunts on it?? Give me a break. The Warrens may be your heros, but everywhere and to everybody else they're a joke. This just proves that point.
For the record, I don't have a problem with high fence places.. So long as they're over a few thousand acres!! And yep, In fact plan on hunting one of my best friend's place in Mountain Home, TX in 3 months for fallow and sika with my muzzleloader as a warm up for my AZ elk hunt.. and its high fence.. but it's 4 THOUSAND acres!!

Oh yeah, my waste of money hunt was a hunt in Nuevo Leon for big whitetails and we didn't see so much as a 120 buck for the seven days we were there. I never even put the gun up!! Live and learn!

quote:

Originally posted by Scottyboy:

quote:

Originally posted by Eland Slayer:
And we'll just have to agree to disagree that a 400 acre property is a "pen" because it my opinion it is not even close to being a pen, as long as it has ample thick cover for the deer.

That is a pen if I've ever heard of one!! 400 ACRES? Come on, dude.. It seems that you need to get out of east/cental TX for awhile and go hunt elsewhere for a change. 400 acres is a front yard in MT/WY/NV/AZ/ID/AB/SK etc!!! No matter how much arguing you do on here (which is pretty much anyone says anything regarding high fence or TX hunting) you aren't going to convince ANYONE on this site that a sham high fence "ranch' is a real hunt!! Hell, I'm from the heart of the high fence part of TX, and have hunted alot of them, but to call 400 acres a ranch is a joke.. And then to sell hunts on it?? Give me a break. The Warrens may be your heros, but everywhere and to everybody else they're a joke. This just proves that point.
For the record, I don't have a problem with high fence places.. So long as they're over a few thousand acres!! And yep, In fact plan on hunting one of my best friend's place in Mountain Home, TX in 3 months for fallow and sika with my muzzleloader as a warm up for my AZ elk hunt.. and its high fence.. but it's 4 THOUSAND acres!!

Well you are certainly entitled to your opinion. 400 acres is a lot of land.....and your remark that "400 acres is a front yard in MT/WY/NV/AZ/ID/AB/SK etc" shows that you're not comparing apples to apples. East/Central/South Texas deer habitat is about 10 times thicker than most of the stuff in those states.

But like I said.....you are certainly entitled to your opinion. Any no, the Warrens aren't my "heroes", but Keith is a very respectable person and he does a great job of displaying our sport in a positive way to the public on his show.....end of story.

Assuming I did my numbers right, 400 acres is what.... 1.25 miles x .5 mile (or about that)? If someone is walking 3 miles an hour, they can criss cross that patch of ground quite a few times in a day and flush anything or push stuff up against the boundary.

Think of it this way...at 3 miles an hour, you can walk the short side of that 400 acres 48 times in an 8 hour day of hunting. If someone moves lengthwise down the property 10 yards at a time (and assuming a mile is 1760 yards and 1.25 miles is 2210 yards), that means in just over four 8 hour days of walking, you have covered basically every inch of the place. Some guys might be comfortable with "hunting" that sort of place, but I'm not one of them.

I have seen and heard of several of these 400ac "wonder ranches" in Texas, OK and other places where the brush is thick. If it is high fenced, it is no more a hunt than in my back yard.

I do not know Warren from Adam, so I cannot say.

I do know "land" and 400 acres in the thickest place in East Tx or La is still too small to be a legit or ethical hunting operation.

The 400 acre unfenced place we hunt on is next to a 1,200 acre farm that was fenced. I could only guess the fence cost. $200K maybe? I'm 6' and it towers over me and has a remote controlled gate that honestly would do credit to Jurassic Park. First time I saw it, I seriously wondered what they had in there anyway.

I understand if it's for exotics, but if it's for whitetails as is this place then it's not something I'd want. I'd rather take my chances on a shot at whatever could wander in from elsewhere. That's closer to what seems a real hunt. And I don't know how the science works, but if the deer can't get out then they can't get in either. Does that make for good long term genetics?

never turn down free hunts or women...

Rich
Buff Killer

quote:

Originally posted by Eland Slayer:
Well you are certainly entitled to your opinion. 400 acres is a lot of land.....and your remark that "400 acres is a front yard in MT/WY/NV/AZ/ID/AB/SK etc" shows that you're not comparing apples to apples. East/Central/South Texas deer habitat is about 10 times thicker than most of the stuff in those states.

But like I said.....you are certainly entitled to your opinion. Any no, the Warrens aren't my "heroes", but Keith is a very respectable person and he does a great job of displaying our sport in a positive way to the public on his show.....end of story.

Indeed I am.. And my opinion is just as I said in my previous post.. a 400 acre high fenced property isn't hunting at all. And to think otherwise is folly. And it's not all apples to apples.. Seeing that you've never hunted in any of those other places mentioned, you have no truth in which to base your statement on.. Hell, the western half of MT and AB, the northern halves of AZ and NV etc. are all on par with the brush and overstory density in east and central TX. I'd like to see you prove that otherwise. Oh wait, you can't... you've never been there, much less hunted there.. And on top of being just as thick as any east/central TX plot of land, there isn't a damn fence blocking in 400 tiny acres within a thousand miles of those places.

You act as if nobody here on AR has ever been to east/central TX before and are acting as if you are here to teach us all a lesson on just how thick the country is and how difficult it is to hunt.. Well, I for one, know EXACTLY what it looks like.. I WENT TO TX A&M RIGHT IN THE HEART OF EAST TX!! My folks live in The Woodlands and have for the last 6 years. I've seen the thickest crap east TX has to offer. Yeah, that country is thick, in SOME PLACES, but to say that being thick is just cause to believe that fencing 400 acres and selling "hunts" on the place is justifiable is rediculous... There is only one place that I can think of in TX where the brush is so thick as to being impenatrable.. that being some of the south TX brush country in Webb, Dimmit, La Salle, and Maverick counties. But that is a moot point on this topic.. We're not talking about the brush country here..the Warren's place isn't located there. Its right there just outside of New Braunfels.. hardly that south TX brush country or even your east TX thickets you continue to talk about. Nice try though.

As a matter of fact, here are a few pics from Keith's fenced plot.. Hardly thick as you try and make it out to be..




Hmmm... sure looks like regular ol' TX hill country oak flats to me..

And let me finish by saying this.. I could care less who hunts these plots.. that's their choice as paying hunters. The problem I have is with people like you you who try and justify that 400 acres under fence is legitimate hunting by trying to convince others that it's OK because it's "thick".. Then the folks (Keith) who sell these hunts and conveniently forget to mention it to the paying client that he is hunting a 400 acre plot under high fence.

NOW it's the end of story. Eland"slayer", you need to get your facts straight before trying to argue a point. I see now why D99 is always messing with you.. You're too easy of a target..You bring it upon yourself.

That's two nice dears in the last photo, even if they are behind a high fence.......

Funny, I did not see where this got changed over to a "Bash Texas" topic?