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ravenr I think those things you mentioned would work well for most people no matter what caliber rifle they were shooting an elk with. Too many people think that having a "magnum" anything in their hands suddenly makes all elk sightings a "shot opportunity". I think if a lot more shots were carefully placed irregardless of what caliber were in your hands a lot more elk would end up on the ground and recovered. Just my 2 cents. | |||
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You guys can go on forever, but it will not change the fact that the 25-06 is at best a marginal caliber for elk. Trajectory, ft lbs, wind drift, etc are all superior in a .300 WSM. The fact that I shoot a "Magnum" has nothing to do with machismo and everything to do with the fact that it's the best caliber for the conditions I hunt in. When I feel like handicapping myself I archery hunt.  I hunted 120lb whitetails for years with 130grn bullets. No way I'm gonna hunt animals weighing 5 times that much with 120grn pills.______________________ I don't shoot elk at 600 yards for the same reasons I don't shoot ducks on the water, or turkeys from their roosts. If this confuses you then you're not welcome in my hunting camp. | |||
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I've killed elk that had small caliber bullets in them. How do you small bore shooters account for that. If you guys always made killing shots there wouldn't be elk running around with small chunks of meat gone. Anybody who hunts with a small bore rifle and says they would never try to make a long shot or a close shot when the angle isn't perfect is just a plain trying to pull the wool over somebodies eyes. velocity is like a new car, always losing value. BC is like diamonds, holding value forever. | |||
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I hunt with an outfitter in western Colorado, who has been in the business for over 40 years, and he has told me several times that he has seen more elk wounded and lost with a 7mm Rem Mag than ANY other round. Now, swampshooter, what is your reply to that? People make mistakes no matter what caliber rifle they are using. Not each and everyone of us are perfect shots. Sometimes animals go down at the sound of the shot, other times they will take off as if nothing is wrong only to fall graveyard dead 200 yards away, but out of sight with no blood trail or visible sign of a hit. Again, as has been said before, the question is will a 25-06 kill an elk, and has been stated in many responses, the answer to that is Yes. The contention arises as to the concept of whether it SHOULD be used and under what conditions. In all actuality, each state/province should institute a proficiency test for hunters before issuing a license, I don't see that ever flying. That leaves the decision up to the individual hunters common sense/ego/machismo ad infinitum, or the states/provinces game departments regulations, concerning acceptable bullet diameters/weights/energy levels at 100 yards or whatever else they deem reasonable, to use when hunting certain animals. Last time I checked, the 25-06 IS concidered legal for elk hunting in most or all of the Rocky Mountain states. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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This thread reminds me of a bow hunter that used to belong to a camp with my dad and I when I was still in high school. He was one of the local bow gurus. He could do anything he wanted to or with a bow, had several he'd made from scratch, and shot 150 arrows/day 365 days/year. He didn't even bring his rifles to camp, just hunted with his bow all season. In the 2-3 years he hunted there with us, I never knew him to bring a deer, not even a doe, back to the camp. He shot fairly regularly at them, and sometimes even drew blood, as I helped him attempt to track a couple. This man could hit whatever he wanted too, but his buck fever must have been unbelievable. That doesn't mean that a bow won't do the job. Just means that he couldn't get it together and execute what he spent most of his life practicing. With any rifle/caliber/shot, it comes down to a reasonable chance at success, and good execution. On that same club, we had another guy who was in his mid 20's, weighed about a buck o'five, and absolutely lived for hunting. For years he'd been one of the most consistent big buck killers around with his trusty little 6mm Rem. Then he got a "real deer rifle", a .300 win mag (A-bolt maybe?). He was terrified of that gun even with a muzzle break. I know because my dad and I were there when he was trying to site it in, and my dad had to do it for him. It's pretty hard to hit the target when you close your eyes and turn your head before you pull the trigger. Guess what, he began to cripple deer like crazy. Bigger isn't always better. Surely, a 25-06 is on the lower end for something like elk, but it sure as hell can kill them. I've also dang sure seen deer lost after being shot with a freakin' cannon. And I'll bet you there is more than one elk guide out there who has to suppress the urge to cringe when he hears some dude from the city telling him about what he thinks the range is of his new Featherby mag... | |||
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Good Post Daniel.   Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Gentlemen ----- I have hunted and taken many Bulls and Cows all over the West and have used two different .300 Winnys, two different .358 STA's, a .340 Wby, and a .338 Lapua. My son and two grandsons use the same rifles, one took his first Elk with the .338 Lapua when he was 14 years old with absolutely no problems. He shot extensively with me and my son for months before the hunt. I have another grandson going with me this year using either his favorite .270 WSM or one of the above, whichever he shows me he shoots the best. All of us know that the bigger bullets going to the same place will do the job better, but unless the shooter is competatent with his rifle, no matter the size, there will be problems. We like the bigger stuff for the bigger animals, and will shoot them enough for it not to matter. A 270 grain .358 bullet going 2950 fps is going to do a whole lot more damage than a 120 grain bullet going the same speed. Is that much necessary, yep, sometimes it certainly is. We get as close as we can and shoot as much gun as we are capable of handleing instinctively. Good shooting. phurley | |||
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Really! I've killed a few Elk myself, not to mention my brother and a few friends and my son and I am trying to remember the last one or any one of them that were packing bullets, yeah I know it can happen but I don't seem to harvest any with that problem. I must admit that I did shoot a Mule Deer Buck over in the Piceance Creek drainage that had a pocket of lead fragment in his ass, no way to know what caliber was responsible for that though. After reading this post I may have to kill an elk this year with my .257 Roberts and the lowly 117 grain Sierra's just to make sure that it can still be done. Since I got the internet it seems that Elk can now take hits to the heart/lungs and shrug it off if its not from the right rifle! and Swampshooter by the way I've let Elk as well as Deer walk away if I couldn't get the right shot I wanted no matter what rifle was in my hands. I'm not about to ass shoot an elk just hoping I can hurt him enough that I can eventually get him down, not my style. So when the proper shot arises it really doesn't matter if I have a .257, 30/06 or a .338, a decent shot on an animal is just that, a marginal opportunity is not made "better" by having a bigger rifle. | |||
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Snellstrom, I have hunted over in the Pieance Creek area a few times in the past, on that Mobil Shale Oil property. That is some really neat country out there, always enjoyed those hunts. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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i have hunted with a small bore and may again and i don't have to pull wool over anyones eyes when it comes to shooting an elk with it. snellstrom,buffybr,MC and a few others have heard the owl and seen the elephant/translates been there done that,when it comes to elk hunting. we don't have to be told what caliber will and what won't kill an elk cause we do it every year the last yr i failed to fill my personal elk license was 1989 and have taken 2, each year in wyoming for the past 6 yrs. these are not opinions,this is personal experience being shared here. we don't have to read about what works or doesn't. WE LIVE IT EVERY YEAR! doesn't have anything to do with magnum recoil or trying to pull a stunt. it all revolves around understanding what the caliber is capable of and understanding the game animal. we're not talking from the position of a once in a lifetime elk hunt,or less than 10 in a lifetime.we are speaking from the position of 30-40-50-60 elk killed so far and we will hunt them again this year. we are familar with them and have no misconception of their mortality. of all the species in north america i think the elk is the most misunderstood of the lot. everybody wants one,it is the premier hunting species for most hunters and maybe the first and last outfitted hunt most people will ever pay for. i have had more experienced hunters on their first elk hunt, go to pieces and lose their mind,when it comes time to shoot at their elk than any other species that i have guided hands down X 10. my mother killed nearly 30 of them with her iron sight 30-30,the last one she slicked her 30-30 and stuffed one thru the elks lungs and put her rifle away and was digging for her license and gutting knife BEFORE it ever hit the ground. she knew what it took to kill one and also knew she had accomplished what it takes. (before anyone takes a poke at my mom, be very very careful) DC roxey is right we will not sway the naysayers and some of you "think" its reckless to hunt them with small bore weapons,but those of us that live with elk "know" better. | |||
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Ravenr, I'd never bad mouth anybody's Mom but in the FWIW department, if you don't want somebody taking a "poke" at your mother, leave her out of your post. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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Why are there WOUNDED elk? Because there are a ton of road hunters and opportunists that will shoot at ANY elk they can see..hoping they will magically fall over. I don't care WHAT your shooting...those LR "Hail Mary" shots seldom work out very well. And regarding your last sentence...There ARE ethical hunters who will pass on a bad shot no matter what they are carrying. Hunters who feel they are judged by what they do when no one is watching. Hunters who pursue their quarry well within the Laws. One just typed this reply. FN in MT 'I'm tryin' to think, but nothin' happens"! Curly Howard Definitive Stooge | |||
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ravenr- remember that one in CO some years ago that had a broadhead and piece of aluminum shaft in it's chest cavity? I can still remember Andy pulling that thing out and showing us! I also vividly recall a guy with a 7mmRUM and the barage that took place one evening last fall...another 1st time elk hunter who got the "fever"... | |||
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Heck of a lot more marginal magnum packers then there are marginal calibers. Howard Moses Lake, Washington USA hwhomes@outlook.com | |||
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Swampshooter, as I have previously posted, I have had one to two freezers full of wild game meat for the past 40+ years. I do my own cutting, grinding, and wrapping. That's a total of well over 100 deer, antelope, elk, bear, caribou, sheep, moose, goat, and musk ox that I've shot, butchered, and ate. Of all those animals, I've only had two that had been previously shot by someone else. Both were Montana whitetail deer bucks. One had a jacketed .358 caliber mushroomed bullet lodged against a neck vertebrae. The wound had completely healed and the muscle had grown tight around the bullet. The other was just a grey lead "splash" on a brow tine of a 5x5 buck that I killed one year early on opening morning. My guess is it was from a .22 LR bullet shot by someone who tried to poach the deer before the season opened.
Add me to the list with FN on this one. The last elk that I shot was out of a herd of 8 cows and 2 5-pt bulls. When I first saw the elk they were feeding across a hillside 300 yds above me. I snuck to a tree 140 yds from the herd, and a single 160 gr Accubond from my 7 mm Rem mag dropped one of the cows in her tracks. I believe the 7 mm Rem mag is fully capable of killing an elk at 300 yds, but I like the 140 yd odds better. I'm also not in to taking "Texas heart shots," and I'm not afraid of passing on a bad shot with any caliber. NRA Endowment Life Member | |||
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i agree | |||
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This is a interesting thread. Thoughts on the 257 Wby? Just to stir the pot. My 2 favorite elk rifles ar 7mm Rem Mag & 338 Win Mg. | |||
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Kind of funny that the ones who live in elk country and hunt and take them every year find no reason not to use the 25-06 for elk while those who travel from out of state and hunt elk occasionally emphatically state you need a large magnum caliber to adequately do the job. Howard Moses Lake, Washington USA hwhomes@outlook.com | |||
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Because the real worry for losing an animal should be worry over an improperly placed shot not over a cartridge and bullet not being up to the job. Howard Moses Lake, Washington USA hwhomes@outlook.com | |||
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Many of us don't live in elk country. We save our money and every now and then get to make a 5 or 7 day hunt at considerable expense. Quite a different scenario than a "local" who gets to hunt and fill one or two tags each year. Put yourself in our shoes and drop $5-10k and then tell me you're still comfy with that 25/06. The hunter needs to be a marksman in either case but for a visiting hunter a larger caliber makes more sense,IMO. If that big bull steps out at 200yds or more on the last evening I want to punch my tag and with a 25/06 the safety is staying on. | |||
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200 yards? 25-06? I know what I'd do......but it would be with my .270 ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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Well...looks like I missed all the fun. The first big game animal I ever killed was a cow elk with... A marlin 336c in 35 remington at about 125 yards. Into both lungs...dead elk. Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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But don't forget, many of us who don't live in elk country go with outfitters that have minimum caliber demands too. Just a thought. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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Hi John, I don't have any issues with anything you said. I agree in fact. Kind of like towing my 5500 lb boat. My 3/4 ton diesel pulls it much better then my half ton did but I never once said, "I can't tow my boat there, I only have a half ton"! Course I had plenty of guys who drive a 3/4 ton diesel back and forth to work and never towed and had no scratches in the bed tell me how foolish I was. Howard Moses Lake, Washington USA hwhomes@outlook.com | |||
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I would get a new outfitter. Sorry but I have heard too many experienced guides say they would much rather have a hunter show up with a smaller caliber they can shoot then a larger bore they are afraid of to have any respect for some type of MN caliber rule. That smacks of nonsensical marketing hype. Note that I understand the rule that the caliber must be legal I am not talking about that. To me caliber is like accuracy. 99.9% of rifles in the field are more accurate then 99.9% of the hunters. Likewise caliber. Use the right bullet, place your shot right and you are 99.9% there. There are way way more things that will have much greater impact upon the success or failure of your hunt then obsessing over the difference between .257 vs .308 bullet diameter. Howard Moses Lake, Washington USA hwhomes@outlook.com | |||
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Howard: Just curious, what would, in your opinion, be the minimum cartridge for elk, 257 Roberts? 243? I have never killed an elk, so I ain't gonna argue with anything you say. Just wondering what your thoughts are. thanks | |||
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If you own it, shoot it well and are confident in it then choose a bullet appropriate for the cartridge and the game to be hunted and go enjoy yourself. Howard Moses Lake, Washington USA hwhomes@outlook.com | |||
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If define "just fine" as a dead elk. Your are right, your friend is wrong. Personally I would load up a Barnes 115gr TSX and go hunting. But any of the 115-120gr hunting bullets would work. Obviously, shot placement trumps all other discussions. | |||
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But I didn't say that if the hunter has to bring a minimum caliber size rifle, the hunter is automatically not as comfortable with it. I understand your point, however. I've never used an elk outfitter personally, but know many who do. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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Back when I was guiding I had two guys on separate occations GIVE ME THEIR 338 WIN MAG rifles as a tip after the hunt was over. They felt compelled to use them on the hunt, they did kill their bulls. The outfitter I worked for shot a 308 and complained about hunters that couldn't shoot or couldn't walk but I don't recall him ever demanding someone use such and so caliber. He had a saying, "IF the sport opens their guncase and there is a used and cared for 270 or 30-06 with a real world scope on it, you will not have to worry about the client's shooting, HOWEVER; if it's a brand new 300 whatever mag or 338 or larger, make sure you take them down to the creek (location of the "rifle range") 'cause it probably won't be pretty." If you and shoot MOA groups with your 25-06 and you shoot "patterns" with a 338 Win Mag I'd damn sure rather have you shoot your 25-06 if I were busting my ass to get you a shot at a bull all week. There is not too much difference a 120gr. 25 and a 130gr. 270 and I have seen and heard of many elk that died with either one when put in the right place. | |||
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In my area of central Montana you generally see local elk hunters carrying "moderate" calibers. Lots of 25-06's, 270's, 280's, 06's......... More than a few 243's and i know of few ranchers and one game warden who use 22-250's and 220 swifts for everything. The warden by the way bought a "big" rifle a couple of years ago. What did he buy? He "stepped up" to a 25-06. Do I advocate the small calibers NO, but they can and are used successfully by skilled hunters who realize the limitations of their rifles and accept them. There are a few serious hunters around here that use the really big stuff such as 338's, 340's , but they are few and far between. I killed my last bull, a decent 7x7 with a 257 wsm loaded to 3200 fps with a 115 partition. Put the sneak on him and dumped it through his lungs broadside at about 250 yds. Did not take a step. Worked beautifully. Most of the outfitters that I know and have talked with on cartridge preferences would much rather that there clients show up with a smaller caliber that they shoot well than with a large caliber that they are afraid of and will most likely flinch with at the most inopportune time, leading to a wounded animal and long tracking job. As far as the bullets recovered from elk. My neighbor has ran a butcher shop for the last 30 yrs or so and has a fantastic collection of bullets that have been recovered from game. Mostly from elk. They come in almost every size, shape, design and caliber. The only thing that they appear to have in common is that very few of them show normal expansion, which to me indicates they were most likely hail Mary s hots dropped into critters from way to far away and obviously not inflicting fatal wounds. Sorry about being so long winded. I normally try to keep my answers shorter. Use a caliber you shoot well. Use a well constructed bullet like a partition, barnes..... and put it through the lungs or heart and you will collect your elk. Don't care what caliber you use put it into the guts or around the fringes and your in for a long and likely unsuccessful tracking job. 3-7-77 | |||
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I know I'm late to this party; and, I have posted on this matter in a different thread. I have killed elk with cartridges from 257AI to 378WM (the former too small and the latter unnecessary IMO) Just for instance, elephants have been known to have been killed with a .22LR between the ribs and into the heart to die slowly from pericardial tamponade or hemorrhage. I do not recommend this as a routine method,(nor do most who cherish life) though approaching close enough to place the aforementioned .22 muzzle on the chest of 10 to 12 tons of hair-trigger irritability is rather gutsy, though quite potentially problematic. Likewise, I can not universally recommend bullets of less than 180 to 200 grains with high velocity as "routinely reliable" elk medicine. In hindsight, I should not have used the 257AI,(although its 120 gr Norma @ 2900 did not seem to know at the moment of impact that it was an inappropriate selection.) Basically, elk hunting is relatively expensive,---and time and money constraints are not lessening as the years twirl by. Insuring one's self of the highest probability of bagging and not wounding takes on financial as well as ethical consequences. With that in mind--if you own a weapon larger and more potent than the 25-06 use it. If you do not,--strongly consider the purchase of one. DuggaBoye-O NRA-Life Whittington-Life TSRA-Life DRSS DSC HSC SCI | |||
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I was just thinking of my elk rifles... 1996 - 35 Remington, Marlin 336C, Cow Elk - CO 1997 - 358 Win, BLR, Cow Elk - CO 2004 - 8x57, BRNO 21, Cow Elk - MT 2008 - 270 Win, Mod 70 Cow Elk - UT 2009 - 308 Win, Cow Elk - CA Never realized I used such a variety. Hmm not a sumptin sumptin magnum in the bunch. Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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What a HUGE pile of clinton! Pitiful and Pathetic! Only thing needing changing there is from "was" to "am". | |||
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I have yet to hunt elk with a rifle. I've only killed elk with a bow (100% success btw). That said, many years ago when I decided that there would come a time when I would rifle hunt elk, hopefully anyway, I chose to buy some magnum calibers and get comfy with them. I got a 300 WM first, then a 7mm Rem Mag, and later a 300 RUM. I put a brake on the RUM. I've never shot one without a brake, so, I don't know if I can hack recoil or not, and I have never had a problem using a brake if it helps me with my shooting. I'm very comfortable with all 3 and I've had a 7mag and the 300 for years now, and still have yet to elk hunt with any of them. I realize not everyone can go buy multiple rifles or even one additional rifle that may be more suited for elk hunting, but I agree with some of the above posts; take the biggest caliber you can that you are comfortable with. Borrow it, buy it, whatever. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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Just shoot the darn thing with whatever you want! It is your hunt. If you hit the elk in the lungs with a 25-06 it will die. If you hit it in the guts with a 25-06 it will be a gut shot elk. If you hit it in the butt then you will have to deal with a butt-shot elk. If you hit it in the shoulder it will be a broken shouldered elk that may or may not die depending on what else you hit. You can insert ANY danged flat-shooting caliber from 25-06 on up into the above statement and IT WILL BE TRUE. Just shoot quality bullets that retain weight and it is up to YOU if the elk dies or not. If this thread goes much farther we may just come to find out that an elk is born with a bullet-proof layer between its ribs and hide..... | |||
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It takes alotta bone and traversed body cavity to retain the wonderous .257" 100X. Elk haven't even the faintest of chance with the combo. | |||
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I think our local Wyoming hero, and long time Peterson's Hunting writer, who is credited with over 50 bulls used a 25-06 on most of them. I don't know about you but I miss Bob Milek. Not many folks can stand in his shadow. | |||
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A tip of the hat in his Memory. Funny how killing is easy for those that do it,as opposed talk about same.(grin) Bullet selection matters far more than headstamps. | |||
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I love these elk killing threads. Few other threads seem to generate so much poorly supported opinion and pure BS. Busheler hit it on the head. I guided, and outfitted, elk hunters for nearly 30 years here in Colorado, and suggested my hunters bring their whitetail rifle because they could usually shoot it well. If they were accustomed to using a mag, ok, but if they were going to buy one just for this hunt I discouraged it. I also recommended premium bullets to everyone, and not so they could shoot elk in the ass. In the magnums they held together better and didn't ruin the entire front half of an elk on a shoulder shot. In "standard" rounds they vastly improved penetration over cup and core bullets, which tend to come apart at the ranges most elk, in my experience, are shot at; within 150 yards. And you guys that think 200 yards is a long shot and a poor ole .257 has nothing left at that range, come out west here and some of us will show you what your rifle is really capable of. Most guys can't shoot well enough, or far enough, to even approach the working limits of their rifles. And yes, you bet your ass I have an opinion and it comes from experience, here in the west, shooting and helping hundreds of others shoot a fair pile of elk. No apologies. | |||
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