The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting Who cares if the meat gets damages?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Who cares if the meat gets damages? | Login/Join |
| One of Us |
After all, we are hunting not eating. | ||
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| <allen day> |
Personally, I don't care if the meat gets "damaged". Politically incorrect though that sentiment might be, it's the truth. AD | ||
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| one of us |
There are no degrees of DEAD. I want my game dead ASAP. | |||
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| <jeremy w> |
Well... Even though I may not starve if meat is damaged I try to refrain from ruining meat whenever possible. Part of hunting is preparing and eating the meat. | ||
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| <razorback> |
Down here in the south, there is a lot of poverty, and I hate it when meat is damaged, although I eat some of the meat, I give most of it to the homeless shelters and the salvation army. why let good meat go to waste, besides, it justifies me killin all the things I kill. | ||
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| one of us |
To show now respect for the game animal's meat and you are showing no respect for the animal. And, you have turned a sport based on outdoor skills to a mindless act of killing. As one drooler stated: the only difference between a deer and a prairie dog is size. I believe most states have laws regarding the proper use and care of game meat. Thank goodness. | |||
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| <allen day> |
The trouble is with tippy-toeing around the meat issue is that you can't always be sure what sort of shot placement, caliber selection, or bullet selection is going to result in "excess" damage. Years ago, Bob Hagle was the only popular writer of great experience to address this issue in a realistic fashion, and he was absolutely correct. It's all a grab bag. Personally, I'd rather whack an animal through the shoulders with a tough bullet, break down his framework, and get him on the ground right away. To me that is my sort of gesture of respect for the animal I'm hunting. I've seen guys deliberately hit, by their own admission, animals a bit too far back in an effort to keep meat damage to a minimum, then have the animal run off- taking its "minimal" meat damage with it! And the funny part is, even though these animals were always recovered, sometimes tissue destruction and "meat-loss" was just as great as if a different load was used and the bullet was placed a little bit better. In any event, bloodshot meat can be readily trimmed away. AD | ||
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| one of us |
I eat what game I shoot. Ok it does occur that some meat will get damaged and I firmly believe in using enough gun to drop the animal (even if it results in some loss) but the damaged parts can be cut off. I am not terribly fond of head hunters (cut off the head leave the animal to rot). I am willing to accept the donation of game to food pantries. Frankly if you waste the animal completely you are not showing a lot of respect for it. [This message has been edited by rockhead (edited 04-12-2002).] | |||
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| one of us |
oops double post, [This message has been edited by rockhead (edited 04-12-2002).] | |||
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| <allen day> |
Rockhead, I agree with you completely. All salvageable meat should be saved and used. AD | ||
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| one of us |
When Iam hunting for eating meat damage is a concern. When strickly trophy hunting could care less if I ruin some meat. When My life is on the line I care even less if some meat is ruined. | |||
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| one of us |
In the states, where I bring the meat home I am very carefull about bullet choice and meat bruising... As many of you know I hunt deer behind my house in Idaho and I normally use an iron sighted 25/35 Win and a modacum of skill to get my deer each year..Why?, with all the guns I have do I use the 25-35, because it was one of my first guns and it takes me back to a better time and place, it test my skills as a hunter, and it does not waste a lot of meat, that is very important.. Do I miss opertunities at some really nice bucks?, yes I have, but I have killed my share of big bucks, so I will leave them for someone who hasn't been as fortunate as I.. Deer is my choice of all game meat, I grew up in a time and place where deer weren't worth much and thats about all we ate so I guess I developed a taste for it early on, the cattle made our expenses barely. Waste was never tolerated. I still believe in that..I hate to see a deer all torn up and just plain dirty and shot all to hell. ------------------ | |||
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| one of us |
Hunting moose in Alaska requires that all eatable meat be salvaged, but that's not the only reason why I only take shots that minimize meat damage; moose meat is very nutritious, and moose-while king of goofy looking-are at least to me magnificent beasts that I enjoy having around. I have proven to myself over and over that a well placed shot through the middle of the lungs, or through the heart will drop a moose almost instantly. I have accomplished exactly that numerous times with 230-grain FS bullets, and at least one time with a 250-grain Nosler Partition. If the animal is not aware of your presence and you shoot it through the lungs or though the heart (with enough gun), it will drop fast. But if the animal sees you and spooks, there is a good chance that it will walk a few yards. By September my hope is to see a moose I can kill, and bring the meat home. If moose meat was legal to sell, I imagine it would cost somewhere around $10.00 per lb, so 800+ pounds of meat is quite valuable to my family and I. | |||
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| <waldog> |
I don't find that my shots tend to ruin alot of meat at all. But whatever meat is unfit for human consumption, my dog gladly recycles in the backyard.  | ||
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| one of us |
One of the reasons I now do 90% of my hunting with cartridges that don't shoot over 2500 FPS or so is that I was simply ruining to much meat. Take for example a couple of deer and a bear that I either shot or witnessed shot with both the 257 Weatherby and 7mm Remington Magnum (120s in the 257,160s in the 7mm).Everything was shot in the shoulder,and on everything we lost at least one and a half shoulders,sometimes both shoulders. I shot a buck last season at around 75 yards through both shoulders with a 45/70 using a Hornady 350 grain RN at around 2000 FPS.The buck hit the ground so hard he almost bounced,and I lost about one mouth-full of meat. My grandfather used a 35 Remington on deer for a few years.He used Remington 200 grain RN factory loads,at around 2000 FPS I assume.My dad butchered every one of those deer,and he claims you could literaly eat right up to the bullet hole-no ruined meat at all. So,from now on,exsept for when hunting where long shots are the rule ,I will hunt with cartridges that fire their bullets at 2500 FPS or less. So far,I have both 30&35 Remingtons,a pile of 45/70s,a 45/120,and a 458 that should pull the rug out from under any buck that ever walked within 200 yards,with minimal (if any)meat damage. [This message has been edited by Brian M (edited 04-12-2002).] | |||
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one of us |
I want meat loss to be minimal. The good thing is that I dont really see a lot of meat loss to bullet wounds. even very bad holes from fast bullets really only seem to ruin a couple pounds at the most. And bloodshot quarters take longer to clean up but still dont lose that much meat. Where I see meat loss is in bad field care of meat and poor butchering. So that is where I try place my focus for saving as much meat as possible. | |||
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| one of us |
...There is one one stage of dead. But I must say I can see some of the other points of viwe. It an seem a little dissrespectful to blast away a roe deer with .330 hollow point. Then again I like to use big guns that put them out instantly, and can confess to having used even my .300WBY MAG on roe deer. Meat damage was minimal, as I have found that if a way - too powerful weapon is used on an animal that cannot "slow" the slug down enough, you just get a spectacular death and not much damage, it tends to zip through. I butcher and eat everything I shoot. (almost) Often I wont eat Aussie pigs, 'cos they are full full of 3 foot long worms, found that out the hard way. | |||
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one of us |
quote: Ditto. I slapped three "warm" loads of 350-grain Speer Mag Tips into my last black bear, and reloaded three more rounds. Some would question why, since I was using a .416 Remington Magnum. Well, it's simple. I have a basic philosophy: If it's still moving, it gets shot again. Granted, I had "some meat damage." Granted, the bear was "dead" on the first shot (and second and third, for that matter). Granted, there were bear guts hanging in the trees, 10, 20, and 30 feet behind the bear. Like I said, though, if it's moving, it gets shot again... and I keep reloading. My first priority is to kill as expeditiously as possible. I can always sift through what's left and find something to eat later. I don't require steaks. Burger is just fine. Russ ------------------ | |||
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| <T/Jazz> |
Jumpin Crawfish Russel! What was that bear eating prior to you shooting it? Pure H maybe. Russel were did you aim at on that bear? I would think that a Remington 416 with a 350 grain bullet would stop any bear in it's tracks dead on the first shot. I have been shooting that type a gun the last couple of weeks off an on and I am very impressed with that caliber. It is a damn big gun period. | ||
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| <dr280> |
Not to paraphrase Russell- but my local butcher has a phrase for the "deer hunters" that bring in the carcasses for processing- "shit gomer- you done processed that one yourself- I'd hate to charge the processing fee if all thats left is to bag it!" I think it shows more disrespect for the animal to fill it full of lead cause it twitches.... but then I grew up with 3 brothers in the woods of Michigan where the whitetail is the King- and gets treated as such. Shoot em once where it counts- and then use some skill and find it. Too bad it's not like that anymore- read my post about penetration with Nosler Ballistic tips- I just published my soapbox book on this very subject- over there. Good shooting- Dave | ||
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| <awknod> |
Hey Look I'm new here but some of you people are just plain disrespectful. Kill the animal- eat the animal! simple really.What makes any of you so special you feel you that you need not "care" and respect your quarry. from what elevated position do you guys come from? I'm not anti-hunter but I am anti-idiot! shooting a bear over and over with a 416 because you are not smart enough to know that the bear is dead, you are just too insecure to handle the responsibility you have taken when you decided to kill it. Russ really, you need some help, stop hunting! quit! you give us all a bad name! what a pussy! [This message has been edited by awknod (edited 04-16-2002).] | ||
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| Administrator |
500grains, I was on my first African hunt in 1982. We saw some eland bulls standing about 280 yards away. My PH pointed the one to shoot to me, and I shot it using a 375 H&H and the Winchester 300 grain Silver Tip bullet. The eland dropped straight down. Roy, our PH and my girlfriend, went to fetch the truck, while I went to wait by the eland. When I got to about 50 yards from him, he got up and started running towards the national park, which was very close. I started shooting him, and after 4 more shots, he dropped again. This time for good. Apparently, as soon as the PH heard more shooting, he said to my girlfriend "stupid boy, he will ruin the meat!" ------------------ www.accuratereloading.com | |||
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| <hornblower> |
quote: I recently took part in a very similar discussion and would like to sum up my thoughts about that topic : | ||
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| one of us |
I care if the meat gets damaged!! Most of the moosehunting in Norway is priced in NoK./KG. and if you damage all the meat it's going to be a hell of an expensive trip, I'll tell ya. You'll have to sell some of the meat to get it all financed, but first we fill up our own freezers. But the animal has to die of something, though. ------------------ Arild. | |||
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one of us |
If I'm going to take a life I need to eat the meat/take care of the skin. If not I'll get problems with my consiens. But a quick dead is also very imfortant. So I try to ruin as little meat as posible without putting the animal through unesasry pain. Johan | |||
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| one of us |
I care if the meat gets damaged, Like Ray said, moose meat is delicious, and nutrious. However I could care less about the meat, be it from a spruce hen or a moose, I just dont want the animal to suffer, thats why I place my first round to the boiler room, the 2nd to the spine or the brain once the thing is down. But with bears it is a different story, I have seen large Griz and Brown bear fall with one well placed shot from a 06 and another medium bear take 3-5 WELL placed shots from a 375 and keep on trying, with any animal when it goes down if im not sure I pay the insurane with 1 to the brain, spine, however with a bear I just keep shooting till im sure hes not gonna get back up. Because you can never tell when you pull that trigger what you just started with the bear. | |||
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| one of us |
Well, aren't some of you the compassionate ones. One shot, then let the thing run/crawl off and die. "Find it later." I don't mind you calling me a pussy, I just hope you visit Silvis, Illinois, and do me the same courtesy in person. Ask the police for directions, they'll gladly tell you where I live. Please, drop by anytime. I'll respond to the multiple-shot "couldn't you hit it any better" comments. I'm not starving and it is NOT my "priority" to conserve meat. Yes, I eat what I kill -- or what's left of it. Since I enjoy hunting, but hunting means killing -- then, out of respect to the animal (that is, "MY" idea of "respect")... I want the animal to die an expeditious death. I, personally, would not want to be shot "just once" and then have some bastard stand around waiting for me to bleed out. Frankly, I'd rather be riddled with bullets, given the choice. I don't like seeing animals suffer. I've put enough of them down, over the years (pets and animals in the wild) to appreciate the value of "life" and "death." A slow death sucks, any way you cut it. Any of you who favor the one-shot, let-it-bleed reasoning, feel free to smoke as many cigarettes as you can... please, die as slowly and as miserably as possible. And for God's sake, don't let anyone give you an easy way out at the end, like a quick death. No, no... savor the lingering moments. As for me, I stand firm. When I open fire, it's getting shot again until it's down AND not moving. God understands my motives even if some of you "pussies" don't. I only worry about answering to Him, not any of you... but I don't mind the insults. I think equally highly of most of you, too. Ciao. Russ ------------------ | |||
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| <heavy varmint> |
I prefer minimal meat damage, many reasons I hunt are literally "unknown" to me but I believe the basic instinct in man to hunt is for food and that is the bottom line for me so I try to spoil as little meat as possible. As for animals dying a slow death, a well placed shot with the right choice of caliber will lead to death within seconds on any animal I have taken. If it is kill or be killed I may worry less about meat loss but I hardly consider an animal running 100 yards or less a slow death. For better or for worse I will allways be my hunting guide. | ||
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| <awknod> |
golly russ, I did'nt mean to upset you! whatta wimp. grow up and figure out that shooting a dead/dying unarmed animal with a HIGH powered rifle over and over is more than just dispatching the animal.you did say black bear! it's about you isn't it? you need to watch more Oprah and less Rambo.You probably oughta watch who you invite to dinner. tough guy semper fi | ||
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| one of us |
quote: You weren't invited for dinner. To the other guy... a hundred yards is a LONG time to die when you're the one dying. Don't take my word for it, though. Gut-shoot yourself and then run a hundred yards before dying. Russ ------------------ | |||
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| one of us |
I don't mind losing a few pound of meat, if the shot puts the game down quickly. I like the Lung/Heart shot the best. You just loose the lungs and a little rib meat. Now the heart is pretty good eaten. I like it, but I don't get all broken up about it if I put a bullet in one. A few years ago, I was hunting out in Montana, I took a shot, I hit the deer, his back end fell down, the fellow I was with, thought I hit the rump, I was ready to shoot again. At this point the deer got back on its feet and was turned so that the only shot I had was a Texas Heart Shot. Just as I was settling down to shoot, the deer fell over dead. All of this from start to finish took less than 15 sec. When I got to the deer, the fellow I was with looked all over the back end for the hit. Then he saw that I put the bullet right thru the heart. There was little damage to meat other than a hole in the heart and a couple of broken ribs. | |||
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| <Daryl Douthat> |
awknod: You should never take anything Russ says seriously. He is a well established idiot on the hunt forums. Lots of posts, little knowledge, wild assertions, and often a threat of physical violence to someone should they show up in Silva. I think he is also a strong Clinton supporter but not sure of this.(Perhaps he will inform us on this point.) There was a post sometime back on huntamerica where he explained the origin of all this bluster. A sad case actually, and this kind of stuff where he talks about riddling an animal and guts hanging out of the trees as well as other people who say they don't give a damn about meat damage is flat out disrespect for the animal. To unnecessarily waste meat from a fine animal is immoral. It sure isn't necessary as part of a humane kill. Who taught these guys to hunt? Or is it all just internet raving? | ||
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| <dr280> |
Russ, Not to rain on your personal parade- but the animals I shoot through the heart and lungs die just as fast as your "bullet riddled" animals. I was a sales rep for a few major rifle and handgun manufactures and have been to police training sessions more than once- any animal or human shot in the chest- a fatal shot- has only 8 seconds to live. The heart and lungs stop functioning and the brain reacts with impulse- no matter the amount of holes in the body. Your preference to keep shooting til they stop moving is simply your preference- to say that a fatally wounded animal from one shot will die a slow and painful death is pure ingnorance. Now- on the other hand- should a shot not land where it was intended- say gut shot- I will continue to try and place one in the boiler room as long as I feel I have not done so. Good shooting- one shot=one kill with a Ruger #1. | ||
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| one of us |
Getting into this discussion is definately a "no win situation",but I will share my thoughts with all of you. I never had to hunt to survive,but I did a lot of hunting with a few men who had done this before I met them. What these men did,when they were under great pressure to kill game,I don't know,but I do know that,now that they are hunting for the love of doing it,they show a great respect for the game. They took great pride in a one shot kill,that did NOT destroy much meat.I don't know if they had to pass on a lot of possible shots,in order to keep this pride intact.I DO know that I have to pass on possible shots,just to be as good a hunter as they were. Knowing what bullet to use,as opposed to what caliber to use is an important first step in achieving a quick kill without wasting a lot of good meat. Some hunters are only concerned with numbers of dead deer,like an animal control officer. That's fine with me,but I'm not going to join you. Frank ------------------ | |||
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| one of us |
quote: Aside from the fact you misspelled "ignorance"... which amuses me as much as when people write to me about how they are "very entillegint"... you at least addressed specifics and I can respect facts when they are presented as such. Short of a disconnect to the central nervous system, you won't stop anything (e.g., animals and people) instantly with heart/lung shots -- but I'll grant you, they WILL die. Based on what you wrote, I'll reconsider some of my future shots... which isn't to say I won't still continue firing when I think it's appropriate, but I'll make an effort to recognize "good shots" as such and let time take its course. Fair enough? Thanks for your post. Russ ------------------ | |||
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| one of us |
quote: It's impossible for me to take serious anyone who fails to use a hyphen -- when it's called for -- while they're attempting to insult MY intelligence. Thanks for the amusement, Daryl. Russ ------------------ | |||
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| <awknod> |
thanks for the heads-up Daryle. I agree with what I see here as evidence. this dude is a kook! I'm sure the police know where he lives, worse yet they may have made him a cop so they could control him. does'nt that fit? It is incredible that Russ would reconsider his position at all. Maybe once the voices stop he will change.What is comical is that the guy is defending his lack of morals and good sense with his opposition's use (or lack of)of a hyphen. what an idiot. so Russ does agonal breathing require another shot? are you familar with how an animal dies? even the instant kills have a period of agonal breathing and twitch as systems stop fuctioning.some of these twitchs are violent and could be considered "movement" if you were the trained BAD-ASS you claim to be, you would know these things. like I said SHUT-UP,and sit down! | ||
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| <ARvrmthunter> |
This poast cracks me up!!!!!!! I would have to put myself in the middleroad. I don't shoot and keep shooting untli it falls, put I wouldn't hesitate to make a second or third shot if the first was suspect. That said, I have only killed two animals "intantly" . One was a mule deer doe -one shot behind the ear. The other was a spike elk bull- one shot(60 yards w/ 7 mag 160 gr. Partition) quartering to me through the front shoulder through the boiler room -the bullet lodged just inside the far side hide. I have heard numerous stories of lung shot bulls(elk) going clear down the canyon before dying right in the creek bottom. So as for me, given the right circumstances, I will shoot a shoulder out to expidite(spell check me would you Russ) finding and processing the dead animal before the blowflies get too bad. With that said, dangerous animals is a different sort of game altogether. My life is held in far more importance than an extra 20 lbs. of meat. I could give a shit if that whole damn bear is blown apart if thats what it takes to keep him from eating me!!! ------------------ | ||
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| <dr280> |
Russ, My apologies for the misspelled word, it was ignorance on my part not to proof read my reply before sending it. In regards to your future shot selections- don't change your style for anyone but you. I don't hunt for anyone but myself, I get my enjoyment out of doing things my way, which I am sure you do as well. On a deer species- one good shot always results in one good kill, on a bear- be damn sure it's dead- or it will be mighty pissed off when you pick his pretty head up to get a look at him. Dave | ||
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