Anyone seen this video or heard of this guy? They sure take some long shots at game. I'm not posting this to get into yet another ethical discussion on shooting game or "hunting" game at long ranges. But, I am impressed with the shot distances. I personally like to get closer.

I apologize if this is old news and has already been posted.

http://www.thebestofthewest.net/7minPromo.wmv

Those are some pretty crazy shots!!! I couldn't even imagine taking those shots but I guess it's possible.

It's so frustrating that no one seems to detail their equipment anymore. What caliber rifle was he using, what type of bullet etc...

I honestly find it hard to believe that they leave these details out. This is my primary gripe with any kind of hunting video.

quote:

Originally posted by fusino:
It's so frustrating that no one seems to detail their equipment anymore. What caliber rifle was he using, what type of bullet etc...

I honestly find it hard to believe that they leave these details out. This is my primary gripe with any kind of hunting video.

Well, do what I did, just go to the website and you can read all about it. From what I gather, Berger bullets is a sponsor of the website and show, but John Burns admits using either the Barnes XBT or Swift Scirocco and cannot figure out which he likes best.

www.thebestofthewest.net

It is available on "the men's channel"

I also have some questions, like exactly what custom stainless handlapped barrels he uses, are they cut rifled or pull button. He states on the website that they are "stress relieved" so does this mean heated again after handlapping or cryogenic treatment or both?

I sent them an email to request all this info.

With that Cariboo Bull at the back of the herd, it looked like the bullet nicked the Cow behind. She was lagging and acting hurt.
I have done my share of long range shooting but i don't care what your shooting or who you are, that shooting into a herd is iffy.
jmho
hound

Some well planned shots. I prefer to keep mine shorter, 300 yds or so, but if you know your gear and the wind, they can be done. I have made long shots on vermin, not game animals.

He was the guy that I was talking about that lived in Thermopolis. Built and sold a gun that was matched to a load and scope.

I wonder what got edited? How many unsucessful 700 yard shots resulting in woundings?

The guy sounds like he knows what he is doing. Probably does indeed do all the testing, loading, and practicing to do this sort of shooting. But I suspect it will encourage a lot of guys to try it without doing the proper foundation of practice and equipment.

That's impressive. Probably not for me simply because I am not sure I could make some of those shots. I've shot on the range at 600 yards fairly well with my hunting rifle. However, under hunting situations over 600 yard, those guys have my respect.

Jorge400

Awesome video.

I highly respect LRH. It's a new form of art. Only for the elite shooters. My hats off!

I would bet they wound and loose more animals than they bag. Of course thet don't show those shots. A lot of things can happen at that range and most of them are bad,

quote:

Originally posted by dakota rifleman:
I would bet they wound and loose more animals than they bag. Of course thet don't show those shots. A lot of things can happen at that range and most of them are bad,

That's a bet you would probably lose, the majority of wounded game occures at ranges under 200yds.
A lot of bad things can happen at ANY range, but guess what distance those "3 shots a year" and "city rambo's" "gotta have the latest magnum" guys tend to shoot at (and it isnt "long" distance (unless you consider 100yd to be long).
The guys in that video probably shoot more rounds per DAY (at distances over 500yd) than most guys shoot in 3 years at 100yd or less.

Tailgunner, that is just your opinion, not fact.

Those boys sure can shoot. The thing I like is the one shot dropin their tracks kills. That's hard enough to do at 100 yards.

Gets me thinking that if thier rifles will kill big game that cleanly at 500-700 yards, just maybe standard velovity rifles will kill them at 200-300. No, we all know better than that.

I'm new to this forum but thought I'd weigh in.

What many critics and skeptics fail to realize is that it takes a special skill and mental discipline and lots of practice and conditioning to do this kind of shooting. It is a totally different skill than it takes to run across a valley or low crawl a mile to get up close and make a shot but none the less one that very few folks have or care to take the time required to develop.

"A guy that can stand at center court and make 3 point baskets is not criticized as a poor bball player because he doesn't drive to the basket for a 2 point shot."

And surely if it was easy there would not be a wash out rate of 72 percent in military sniper schools.

As far as sporting..... well if being able to make truly incredible long shots and there for doing it is not "sporting" then in my opinion young fit guys should have to wear shackles when dashing about on the prairie, and wear plastic bags on their head when climbing mountains so as to not take unfair advantage of their youthful capabilities.

Speculation of negatives is dangerous! 30+ years as a full time taxidermist and I can tell you that 95% of all sportsmen have similar concerns over lost or wounded game. "Getting in too close where a the hunter is pumped the animal is nervous is everybit as good a recipe for something to go wrong" "Hunting in the rain or snow lowers recovery success" a real catch 22 is that "hunting without experience definately lowers ones odds" And so does "hunting after age starts whittling away at our eyes, ears, reflexes and etc."

Patting a fellow sportsman on the back and saying "Good Shot!" or "Great stalking job!" does not demean oneself. Likewise taking other sportsmen down a notch doesn't do much to promote our own atributes.

#################

If God thought everyone and everything should be equal he would probably start by taking the tops of the mountains and filling in the valleys...... The world would be a level playing field and one hell of a desolate landscape!

Thanks for the interest in the DVD. We have gotten a great response.

Lots of people interested in getting the best performance out of themselves and their equipment.

Dakota rifleman,

How much will you bet????

NBHunter,

Opening shot is elk at 740 yds.

150 gr bullet with impact velocity of 2250 fps.

A little less horsepower than decent .270 or .280 handload at 400 yds.

You’re right on target. It is possible someone might actually be able to use a standard cartridge at standard ranges.

Who would have thunk it???

I found the video depressing. Seven or eight animals, line it up and dump another one. All it takes is the right equipment, because if you dont make this shot your whole hunt is ruined.

Somebody hauled a cameraman around and shot a bunch of animals in order to make a video to sell services. Thats the bottom line. I am having trouble equating the making of the video with hunting.

I disagree with the concept behind the whole thing. One of the reasons that hunting (as opposed to shooting animals) is so interesting is that most of the time the animals win.

Part of this is sour grapes, since all of these animals are bigger than anything I have taken. But just where are we headed with this technology?

John,

Despite all the negative comments you and others might receive on LRH, my hats off to you and the other hunters on video. Amazing footage.

Hope that in the nerar future you can come down here to try those shots in the Patagonia, windy and open terrain. We can arrange a hunt anytime

Regards,

Hey, John:

In the opening sequence, why the whispering at 740 yards??? Old habits are hard to break, huh?

My impression is that y'all truly put the required amount of effort into this to do it the right way. I'll grant you that, even though, personally, it's not for me. I do have some "long range" experience (USMC) in my past, but back then I didn't care if my target crawled off into the bush or sand to die a slow death if everything didn't "go" as planned. The difference when I'm hunting is I do care about that.

One more thing I'll add: in your videos, stop rationalizing by saying you "couldn't" get across a draw, open space, etc. I, for one, won't buy that. One can always get closer. It may not always be a nice bee-line, but it can be done 99.99% of the time (after all, you're gonna somehow make it over to the carcass aren't you?). If you want to shoot animals at those ranges, then that's that. You owe no explanation/justification as long as it's legal.

Again, although I wouldn't personally promote or endorse it, I'm glad to see someone like yourself out there dedicated to doing it right and teaching others to do so, as well. There's nothing worse than some hack trying to "pull off" what you guys are engaged in.

RSY

One man's limit might be 100 yds, while another is 1000. The important thing is knowing your limit. Whether or not you think it's sporting, hunting or something else is up to you.

Makes me appreciate even more the "man vs. beast" hunts of Pete Capstick and of Fred Bear, where there was a very real danger in the hunt.

quote:

Originally posted by RSY:
stop rationalizing by saying you "couldn't" get across a draw, open space, etc. I, for one, won't buy that. One can always get closer.

Anybody who has ever gotten close enough to, and taken every big game animal he ever saw that he wanted, is either pretty freaking good or hasn't hunted very much.

As long as your not wounding game in the attempt to set the new long distance record I can not really complain.

For me the most thrilling part of the hunt is getting as close as I can, 99% of my shots have been well under 100 yards.

Somehow there is the hunting ethics issue "mentioned" in many posts.

However to those who condemn LRH I'd like to add my own opinion on "other" forms of CLOSE RANGE hunting:

1) Is it ethical to hunt during the rut?? I've debated this many times and IMHO IT IS NOT. The male roars, helping to locate him, his senses are down to only one purpose...etc, etc. Of course, you get very good CLOSE SHOTS. Go hunting after the rut…this is the REAL THING

2) Is it ethical to hunt over a blind??? Well, here you are using artificial concealment means to help you in order to get a closer approach hence a shot

3) Is it ethical to hunt over bait??? Similar situation as 1 and 2

4) What constitutes an ETHICAL SHOOTING DISTANCE and under what circumstances???? I don't have a clue

5) Is it ethical to hunt with dogs????

6) Ethics talks about not wounding and using any possible available means to avoid an unnecessarily painful death, not about a predefined shooting range

Of course, we can make this issue as long as we want to. But, before anyone condemns LRH, please take a second look.

Gustavo, ethics in hunting often get involved in the discussions here. I for sure do not have THE answer, but here are some thoughts.

Laws define part of the situation surrounding hunting, but are a poor yardstick for measuring ethics of hunting. Ethics in hunting to me, are the set of rules that you have created for yourself, that are the rules you abide by when hunting. The real tricky part is that these rules do not work for everyone, yet that does not make "them" bad or "you" good. As long as you abide by the set of rules that we all have in common, the hunting laws, we should be able to get along even if we don't all do it the same way. Hunting laws are a kind of base line that defines activity, but does not define how each of us are involved in that activity. Kind of like a table may be refered to as a "dinner table", yet what is on the table is not defined by "table".

Somehow I think that if the animals we hunt had an input, hunting ethically might take on a totally different meaning!

Hunting to me has always been a way to challenge myself, and enjoy where I was while doing it. I guess that to me, those two things define the limits of ethical hunting.

JMHO, of course.

Guys, don't be all that impressed. All of us, if we're willing to spend the money, can make long shots on big game, even small game. There's nothing secret about the technology. In fact, NECO offers a nice long-range shooting progam that will get you up to speed in no time. I have the program, and it's quite good (see below).

"NECO is pleased to announce the availability of a new innovative long range shooting simulation created by Karin Christiansen. This CD-ROM works on Mac and PC! SHOOTERREADY© de-mystifies the mil-dot reticle, shows how to properly estimate range, engage moving targets, estimate wind and how to use a range card. SHOOTERREADY© includes classroom sessions with problems to be solved by the shooter. The graphics and sound are great. A hit registers on the target after passage of the appropriate time. The sound of a hit (a pleasing metallic clink) reaches the shooter after the proper time lapse. A miss is observed as a cloud of flying dirt for closer ranges. SHOOTERREADY© is available from our SHOPPING CART or by phone order for $39.95 + S&H"

You also need a 1000 - 1500 yd laser range finder, a first-rate scope, and an accurate rifle, preferably with a stiff, after-market barrel (e.g., Krieger, Shillen, Hart, Douglas, others), which has been put on by a first-rate gunsmith. You can also buy accurate guns from a variety of providers. Calibers can be many, but I'd recommend a 300 WM - although a well-aimed, accurate 30-06 will kill at 1000 yds and beyond. Whatever gun and caliber you choose, you must know your trajectory out to 1000 yds. or beyond, such that you can make your elevation corrections. Many programs exist once you know your velocity and bullet type (ballistic coefficient), and you know how to make altitude/temperature corrections.

Actually, this is all quite easy, but all bets are off when the wind is blowing - then you need a big dose of LUCK. Not even the characters in the video are going to deal with the wind under many (even usual) conditions - sometimes the wind changes direction and speed unpredictably between you and the target, and it's impossible to know how. The wind blows often and extensively in the West. I know; I grew up in Windoming! (They didn't show the shots they missed.)

If you want to get in this game, get ready to miss and to wound game - ethics are an important issue here, inspite of the tone of the promotional video. Remember, they mentioned often that they "couldn't" get closer - I say bullshit - they want to sell their product.

I'm not here to stand and defend LRH. Not at all. I guess many people, especially those who stop by other specialized forums (http://longrangehunting.com/) can make a substantially better stand of their preferred practice.

But I think it's practice is getting (usually) too much attack by fellow hunters, depicting this sport as immoral, unethical, etc, etc,

Of course this under the light of what we can call CLOSE RANGE HUNTING.

Moreover, ethics is a subject to write many books...and we are not here in this forum to close the issue.

But, my intention, was just to point out the real, valid merits it has and especially to show that other forms of hunting that we are so fond of, are not (JMHO) very ethical at all…

If anyone out there can do this kind of shooting, well I HAVE MY DOUBTS…!!!

If a pc-based game is going to make a difference, well I HAVE MY DOUBTS…!!!

If the issue is solely solved by technical aspects (rifle, scope, ammo) well I HAVE MY DOUBTS…!!!

Please, do it or not, but LRH deserves better.

Funny,

I just heard about these guys this past weekend from my uncle, and he says the DVD is a must own. He said they use a .284 LRT, which is just below a 7mm STW, from what I understand. Needless to say, I ordered immediately. Cheers.

I don't have an issue with the range as much as I do the herd shooting. There are a couple of incidences of shooting with deer in the danger zone behind that are extremely irresponsible.

When it comes to shooting across draws I often wonder if it's not a bit like fishing on a river - you know you really want to cast to the other bank, what does the other guy want to do on the other side? Cast to your bank.

What's so special about the other side of the draw, why not still hunt a little slower and quieter and spot elk on your own side?

Course I never elk hunted but I still wonder - oh and what happened to tipping your hat to game animals that you see but can't shoot for various reasons?

quote:

Actually, this is all quite easy, but all bets are off when the wind is blowing - then you need a big dose of LUCK.

As I have said a million times before, how do hit at 1000 yards reliably when your bullet can drift 5 inches at 1000 yards (or pick some other range).

The amount of additional drift at 850 yards is stunning when compared to 700 yard drifts (and that is real shooting, not computer shooting. I shoot at those ranges practically every week.

At some point, there is a physical limit. I have yet to hear a LR shooter tell me what that is.

Very good shooting indeed. I can't do it!

I do take exception in the instances where they claim "they can't get any closer".

I guess they shoot very well, but don't hunt very well..........many time they could have gotten closer to those animals, had they chosen to. At least I could have.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:

quote:

Actually, this is all quite easy, but all bets are off when the wind is blowing - then you need a big dose of LUCK.

As I have said a million times before, how do hit at 1000 yards reliably when your bullet can drift 5 inches at 1000 yards (or pick some other range).

The amount of additional drift at 850 yards is stunning when compared to 700 yard drifts (and that is real shooting, not computer shooting. I shoot at those ranges practically every week.

At some point, there is a physical limit. I have yet to hear a LR shooter tell me what that is.

Of course, wind is the big culprit, not distance, but it's not impossible at all if one can wait until the right moment. Besides that LRH is not about rushing it...

Interesting video. Thank you Doc.

Those are some loooooong shots on game. The results are pretty interesting, I wouldn't have guessed one shot kills on Bulls over 500 yards was realistic - passed on that shot myself 2 years ago.

Not sure I'll show the video to my son-in-law. He shot 2 deer at 500 yards and now thinks that is a normal range and wants to set-up for those shots. He is a good shot but has wounded and not recovered at least one deer trying those long shots.

I nailed a pie plate routinely with a Bench type 18 pound gun and 25x Leupold at 677 yards so I know with the equipment it can be done...Head shots at 500 yards were no challenge on a metal ram, but that is a lot of iron to haul around.

I'm not convinced it's ethical to encourage this sort of thing - 500 to 1000 yd shots on game. Wind will keep the vast majority from succeeding routinely, and game will be wounded and wasted.

What a wonderful triumph of technology! I can't wait for the laser to replace the rifles bullet then the only thing we will have to contend with is gravitational bending of our laser beam!

those boys can shoot.

"Patting a fellow sportsman on the back and saying "Good Shot!" or "Great stalking job!" does not demean oneself. Likewise taking other sportsmen down a notch doesn't do much to promote our own atributes."

Awesome statement Mike. It's applicable to life in general, and if you don't mind I'm going to borrow and tweak it.

This discussion is not about being jealous - it's about being responsible! Please remember, that it's a sentient animal being shot at and potentially wounded, followed by an agonizing death. Wildlife is a limited resource. Killing animals at long range with hooped-up guns equipped with modern scopes is not that difficult as long as there's no wind. But, under the usual conditions out West, there is WIND, which is very, very difficult to judge! I know I grew up with wind (and lots of it), practically every day in Wyoming.

We have a great heritage of wildlife in this country, hopefully to be used and managed responsibly. Advocating long shots at wildlife over 500 yds. is not responsible - most such shots are going to be missed or endup wounding game. These entrepreneurs are out to make a money. Wastage of wildlife for purely commercial reasons came within a hair or ruining hunting in this country of everybody.

I agree 100% on being responsible. In short it's up to our "good" judgement" if we can or cannot take the shot.

But ethics...see my foregoing post.

I liked the footage and I like LRH, since I practice it windy Patagonia, and is a real challenge. Add to the range, the very long stalks, the freezing temperatures, no water, no food and you'll have a picture of wath this is about

Good stunt but it's hardly hunting.