What bullet? distance? load? results?

I took a raghorn 4x4 bull Elk of about 450 Lbs with a 165 grain Hornady BTSP using 44.5 grains of IMR 4064 at 240 yards.

The bullet entered behind the right shouder and cut the top of the heart off. It then clipped the front lobe of the left lung and exited between two ribs on the left side.

The bull took one step and died.

I shot a 48 in Minn. Moose, 150gr Core-Lokt at 250 yds. Hit it in the spine and dropped in it's tracks DRT!

Moose in Newfoundland, range 425, load 180 Nosler Partition, and too much Win 748, Sako- Mannlicher stocked 20" One round thru the lungs and one further astern through the reproductive sack... He ran 50 yards total. 43" and quite heavy mass... circa 1985 Buchanns plateau Old Country Pond camp, Don McInnis outfitter - Joe Hines guide.

I've taken Whitetail and Muledeer, boar, black bear, caribou and lord knows what else with the .308. My standard load has refined itself to a choice of 165 grain bullets, the Nosler BT or the Swift Aframe. I did not like the bullet performance of the 180 grain Partitions in that rifle.

I shot a squirrel at about 25 yards.I missed a few deerat around 200 yards.I dont trust the 30-06 on deer past 200 yards so I dont trust the 308 any further.I have hunted with the 338 win mag for 30 years.I shot deer,bears hogs with it form 3 to 425 and nothing ran any anywhere.I trust the 308 as a defence weapon to 300 yards thats what I use it for.Its alot better than the 223 is in that role.It was revived for Iraq.

quote:

I dont trust the 30-06 on deer past 200 yards so I dont trust the 308 any further.

dgr416 can you explain a little better? I've taken deer and elk with smaller caliber rifles at greater ranges than 200 yards and never felt under gunned. I don't own a .308 but I do have the .30-06 and I wouldn't be afraid to use it on deer past 200 yards. I took my black bear in AK this year with the old 06 at a little over 200 yards and my friend took his at 205 yards with a contender pistol in .358 JDJ. I figure the .308 has to be at least as good as these two rounds at that kind of range.

Taylorce1...do not expect logic in reply

I have shot numerous black bear, mule deer, and elk with a 7MM-08 and either good constructed 140 or 160 grain bullets. It has been a winning combination. A 308 has generally good performance with the right bullet and is very accurate; it will perform as well, and just use the right 165 and 180's.

Blank,

Just curious when you say numerous...is that a couple of each or is that more like 3 or 4 of each...

The reason I ask is I switch hunting rifles like a switch girlfriends....about 1 every year...

A young bull moose when I was 12yo. 180gr Rem Core-lokt factory ammo. 200yards. Dead moose.

I also shot a few deer, a couple black bear and a few coyotes with the same rifle/ammo.

My Dad shot about 20 moose with it before he switched to the 8mmRM in the late 70's.

Nowadays I prefer the 165gr bullets in it, but I don't use it much for hunting...too many other choices in the gun cabinet.

Cheers,
Canuck

quote:

Originally posted by dgr416:
I shot a squirrel at about 25 yards.I missed a few deerat around 200 yards.I dont trust the 30-06 on deer past 200 yards so I dont trust the 308 any further.I have hunted with the 338 win mag for 30 years.I shot deer,bears hogs with it form 3 to 425 and nothing ran any anywhere.I trust the 308 as a defence weapon to 300 yards thats what I use it for.Its alot better than the 223 is in that role.It was revived for Iraq.

Please don't take too much offense but that sounds like the ramblings of someone who's not a very good shot..........

quote:

I dont trust the 30-06 on deer past 200 yards so I dont trust the 308 any further.

Interesting...perhaps you hunt in a parallel universe

2300 pound range bull, wild for 4 years. he was a mix breed to bet all hell. Shot with a 338 Win Mag in Federal 250 grain Safari loads shooting Nosler Psts...

5x5 Elk in western Colorado. 165gr Nosler partition with 44gr of IMR-4064. Range was roughly 175 yds. Bang flop dead neck shot.

quote:

I dont trust the 30-06 on deer past 200 yards so I dont trust the 308 any further

not much faith in the round or your shooting?
you think that a 30 caliber bullet @ 2293 FPS and 1926 FLB's isnt enough to kill a deer?
sounds like you prefer to shoot them in the brown and need a bigger bullet so you can track them in the dark.
a 30-30 has the same V and E at the muzzle. you wouldnt trust a 30-30 on deer at 1 foot?
asinine!

quote:

Originally posted by dgr416:
I have hunted with the 338 win mag for 30 years.I shot deer,bears hogs with it form 3 to 425 and nothing ran any anywhere.

really? 30 years?

this moron is a hoot look at some of the BS posted by this dumbass...

I trust the 308 as a defence weapon to 300 yards thats what I use it for.
really? explain on what planet you can justify shooting someone at 300 yards as defensive?

I used the 30-06 a while then changed to the 338 win mag.I have shot 90 deer with 90 shots.
you should teach.

Alaska is as close to communisn as in gets in the united statesas far as hunting goes.
HAHAHAHAH!

my favorite...
I must have found the worlds toughest cat on my farm...I saw it at the farm house and grabbed my 338 win mag.This is the only animal that ever ran from it.I shot it length wise and split the cat in half.I went to see the damage and it ran off.I grabbed my 22 pistol and shot it 6 or 7 times and it was still breathing.I had to club it with a log to make it quit breathing.
how did you decide what half to chase?
club it with a log? AHAHAHAHAHAHAAH! rich!

I like porcupines in the Fall when they are fat...They might need trimming of fat and parboiling some.I wack them with the tire tool .Its only of only two things in Alaska you can kill with a stick or rock.The spruse grouse is the other.I got a 52 pounder with a big root once.
a 52 pound spruce grouse? GD. i bet it sounded like a fucking blackhawk helo.
should have use that tire tool on the cat.

I would like to have a barrel mounted lazer and flask light attachment for fickening night time bears that come into camp.its a bitch to hold the light and shoot while a bears coming at you 35 mph.
i'll just bet it is, honcho.
a lazer and flask light. WOW!

I faced grizzleys on my first Alaska hunt trying to get into my tent with me..I have 5 416 Rem mag rifles that I use as my tent guns.
really? do you keep them all in the sleeping bag with you? do the have flask lites?

quote:

Taylorce1...do not expect logic in reply

Mike, I just wanted to hear the story behind what happened to make dgr416 loose faith in the .30-06. I don't have much experience with the .308 caliber rifles I've only taken one elk and bear with the .30-06, both went down very hard. I used 180 grain Winchester silver box on the elk. I handloaded 200 grain Nosler Partitions with 52 grains of H4350 and CCI 200 primers for the bear. What little experience I've had has all been good.

quote:

The reason I ask is I switch hunting rifles like a switch girlfriends....about 1 every year...

I like a change every now and then as well, seems like I have a new rifle every year to try out on something.

My now 12 year old son shots a 308 as his primary gun. Largest game shot a 450 pound spike horned Elk. Used 150 grain Federal Fusion @ 125 yards. Shot that elk through both sholders and exited. Elk ran maybe 25 yards and dropped.

He has used this on South Texas Whitetails out to 200 yards, again same 150 Federal Fusions. Heaviest deer @ 180 pounds on the hoof. All deer DRT with high shoulder shots.

He will take this with him next year to S Africa for plainsgame up to and including Gemsbok and Kudu.

I may step him up to 165 or 180 grain bullet weights for Africa.

A Black Angus bull that weighed about 1200 lbs. Hit him square in the forehead after he had redecorated my then brand new black '83 short bed GMC truck. Guess he was love sick.



Paid for it too.

A good sized cow elk at about 80 yards (estimated 400 to 450 lbs). Used a hand loaded 165gr CoreLokt, don't recall the exact load but the MV was ~ 2630 fps. The bullet hit the spine about mid rib cage and exploded. The cow dropped right there (go figure with a severed spine) and died very shortly thereafter. I wasn't real impressed with the bullet, but then again it did get the job done.

Shot two cow elk and one 4X4 bull with a 30-40 Krag (factory ammo) (close to 308 ballistics) in my younger days. The ranges were all under 100 yards or so. Don't recall ever having to shoot more than once, but then I don't recall any of them dropping on the spot either. Shot placement was double lung as I recall. Rifle was a customized (nicely too I might add) M1896 Springfield carbine.

"I like porcupines in the Fall when they are fat...They might need trimming of fat and parboiling some.I wack them with the tire tool .Its only of only two things in Alaska you can kill with a stick or rock.The spruse grouse is the other.I got a 52 pounder with a big root once.
a 52 pound spruce grouse? GD. i bet it sounded like a fucking blackhawk helo.
should have use that tire tool on the cat."

That is effin' hilarious!

quote:

Originally posted by dgr416:
I shot a squirrel at about 25 yards.I missed a few deerat around 200 yards.I dont trust the 30-06 on deer past 200 yards so I dont trust the 308 any further.I have hunted with the 338 win mag for 30 years.I shot deer,bears hogs with it form 3 to 425 and nothing ran any anywhere.I trust the 308 as a defence weapon to 300 yards thats what I use it for.Its alot better than the 223 is in that role.It was revived for Iraq.

there must be some really good drugs where you live.

I have taken 110 whitetails from point blank to 425 yards.I just dont trust the 30-06 or the 308 like I do the 338 win mag.I shot deer with the 30-06 that would run 300 or more yards with perfict lung shots with the 30-06 and go to other hunting clubs and get shot by someone else.I got tired of that bs and got a 338 win mag that flattens then in their tracks.It damages alot less meat than the 30-06 or 308 do.I had a pair of 300 win mags that I though would make alot of difference but they really didnt.I still had deer running when they were shot at 200 yards or further with perfict double lung shots when shot with the 30-06.With the 338 win mag you dont have to wait for perfict shots,I shoot them cross ways side ways head on angling away or running .I have shot many deer running full out and flipped them in their tracks.Here in Alaska where I live now there are alot of grizzleys and hardly any blackbears .The grizzleys feed on the black bears on a regular basis and make the black bears agressive also.I would not trust a 308 as my primary gun in Alaska.Its ok for deer under 200 yards but not my choice.Yes it might be a good starting gun for women or kids who cant handle much recoil.Its alot better than the 243 I agree at that.If you want to hunt grizzleys with a 308 you go right ahead just pay your life insurance first.The 338 win mag is the smallest gun I will hunt with up here.I hunt caribou on the tundra that are hunted very hard by hunters on 4 wheelers and they are very spooky.You are lucky to get within 400 yards of them.I have a friend who did hunt with a 308 for caribou till he had to track one 5 miles on a snowmible after he shot it at 200 yards.The 308 is not a long rang rifle by a long shot.The army has turned to the 338-416 as their sniper rifle.My 338-378 weathby is basically the same rifle.I use this rifle when I know the have will be beyond 300 yards.I have two H&K model 91s in 308 but I dont hunt with them.I love to shoot them and keep them as a defensive weapon.I would not trust the 308 on game bigger than deer .If you cant shoot a gun big enough for the game you are shooting then you should not be hunting them.I dont see many people taking 308s to africa for dangerous game.Yes there have been elephants shot with the 308 on control hunts but these people really know what they were doing.I have hunted big game 35 years and always make sure that I have enough gun for the job.I like accurate rifles and all my 338 win mags will shoot well under an inch at 100 yards and most under an inch at 200 yards.If I was going on a hunt of a life time or after larger game bigger than deer I would want the biggest gun I could handle.If the 308 is all you can handle then you shouldnt hunt larger game.Its not worth the risk of loosing animals such as elk or moose or getting eaten by a bear.I practice alot with my rifles and I usually shoot at least 1000 rounds of ammo in my 338s,416s and 338-378 each year .I go to range where I can shoot up to 600 yards and know the flight of my bullets.I usually shoot clay targets out to 300 yards.I about die when I see people blast away at targets as big as a sheet of sheet rock and are happy if they can hit it at 100 yards.You owe it to our sport and the animal to not be undergunned .The 308 is fine for deer under 200 yards but I know alot better guns to use when its longer range or larger game than deer.

my ss savage super striker hand-pistol is chambered in 308 winchester,i use it for hunting whitetails in shotgun countys where its also legal. ive taken 2 bucks and 1 doe all adult deer 150lbs to 175 lbs, range 25 yds too 35 yds,neck shots shoulder shots, brisket shots,pretty much drt. load 130 sierra spz,w-748 or varget. its one very accurate round,my 308 target rifle will shoot and hold 1/2 moa,at 600 yds easy,i often shoot my MGM praire-dog at 625 yds,my 30-06 and 338 win magnum,smoke my P-Dog from 300yds to 500 yds pretty easy to.different strokes 4 different folks cheers jjmp

quote:

I shoot them cross ways side ways head on angling away or running .I have shot many deer running full out and flipped them in their tracks

+ =

Yeah...dont you guy's know that anything less than a 340 Weatherby is just not a good deer hunting caliber?

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:
+ =

I love your math Professor

quote:

Originally posted by dgr416:
I missed a few deerat around 200 yards.I dont trust the 30-06 on deer past 200 yards so I dont trust the 308 any further.

The above statement says everything that you need to know.

If I couldn't hit a deer at 200 yards I wouldn't trust my guns to shoot that far either.

While I am still a 6.5mm aficianado, over the past couple of years, I have used the .308 WCF quite a bit for hogs, both in hunting and nuisance control situations. From around 20 pounds to a few at 300+ (though most fall into the 150-200 lb. range), the .308 has never let me down. Most of the hogs were taken with either a 150 grain Ballistic Tip or a 150 grain Solid Base with a MV of app. 2780 fps from the 20" heavy barrel. Pass-throughs are pretty much the norm on most broadside presentations.

One hog of note that was not a pass-through was an old boar that probably weighed 275 pounds (this one was not weighed) that I took with a quartering shot using the 150 grain Sierra Pro-Hunter. The MV was 2805 fps, and the range was 190 yards. The bullet took the hog near the last rib and lodged in the off-side shoulder (after breaking the bone). The core and jacket separated and were found near each other, but it did not matter as the damage had been done. The bullet had taken out part of the liver, destroyed a portion of the lungs and ruptured some major plumbing. The back end of the hog slumped at the shot, and he spun and went maybe 12-15 yards into the brushline before giving up the ghost.

So, given reasonable velocity levels, even cup-and-core bullets that some consider "soft" do just fine -- even on thick hides and muscles of game like hogs -- if one doesn't push them beyond their design parameters.

quote:

I missed a few deerat around 200 yards.

i dont know what a deer rat is. i know what a deer mouse is.
The deer mouse ranges from around 6 to almost 8 inches in total length including the tail, which is about 1/2 of its total length. Adult deer mice are generally colored a tan or brown above with a white underbelly and throat while young deer mice are colored gray above with white underparts. The ears are large, rounded and mostly hairless and the eyes are also large and bulging. In overall appearance, the deer mouse at first glance looks almost identical to the White-footed mouse with which it may share the same general habitats. They can generally be told apart by looking at the tail. The tail of a deer mouse is bicolored, the top half being slightly darker than below.
thats a small target at 200 yards.

Mike: Sory for not answering. Missed your question, then ignored most of the rest of the posts as they went downhill. The 7MM-08 was a good shooting, low recoiling gun and I used 140 and 162 original Nosler Solid Base bullets over IMR 4064.

I too have a habit of changing rifles frequently, but do have a few favorite ones. That Rem Model 7 SS was one of those, and I think I shot everything in Id, Mt, Wy, and Az that I drew for about 5 years with it. My wife and youngest son each shot a cow elk with it also

After going thru pictures and logs, I can give info. More accurate answer would be 2 large black bears, 6 mule deer, 2 whitetails, a 5 pt bull elk, and 3 cow elk. Hope that helps.

Blank...that is great lots of memories in that rifle. Doesn't seem like you had much problem with cllean kills or you would have quit using it...

Yeah, it was a good one, but my buddy in Wisc needed it for whitetails so we arranged a Rem 700 350 Mag swap. After all the different 7's I've had, the only one that will never go away is a Rem 700 SS in 7 Mag. It will shoot any factory or reload under an inch (and 160 TSX at around 5/8"), and is my long range Coues deer rifle. If I lay off the caffine, 2" groups at 300 yards are pretty frequent.

Now I'm into 300WSM's and in-line muzzleloaders, and want to go back to Africa with black powder to do it all over again.

I don't own a .308. My first rifle was a sporter Mauser .30-06, I still have it.

The smallest thing I have killed with it was a Vermont whitetail buck last fall. The largest thing I have killed with it was a hefty eland bull. My first game animal in South Africa.

I surveyed hunters in a campground in CO to find out the most popular calibers for Rocky Mtn Elk & Mule Deer #1 was the 300wm,#2 was the 30-06.A few had 7mm mags & 308's.

Come on up to Alaska and hunt some of the nice grizzley bears with your aweome 308.You should wait till a full charge so that you can flatten him with one shot.You should try it in africa on cape buffalo and elephant.I TRIED THE 308,30-06 AND 243 WIN AND i was not impressed.I am sorry if your too wimpy to shoot a bigger gun.I guess you shoot turkeys with your .410 also.I learned to shoot larger guns than a 30-06 and know that are alot better choices than smaller calibers that are not good at the shot takers.I just wonder how many deer you have shot with your 308 above 250 yards.Its fine as a battle rifle or deer under 200 yards but any game over 500 pounds deserves to be taken cleanly with a larger gun.

quote:

Originally posted by dgr416:
Come on up to Alaska and hunt some of the nice grizzley bears with your aweome 308.You should wait till a full charge so that you can flatten him with one shot.You should try it in africa on cape buffalo and elephant.I TRIED THE 308,30-06 AND 243 WIN AND i was not impressed.I am sorry if your too wimpy to shoot a bigger gun.I guess you shoot turkeys with your .410 also.I learned to shoot larger guns than a 30-06 and know that are alot better choices than smaller calibers that are not good at the shot takers.I just wonder how many deer you have shot with your 308 above 250 yards.Its fine as a battle rifle or deer under 200 yards but any game over 500 pounds deserves to be taken cleanly with a larger gun.

Spoken like a real jack-ass...