i've just finished reading "rifles and cartridges for large game" by Layne Simpson.
and in the chapter about bullets there is a chart of recommended bullet weights for various cartridges.
there are two columns, one for deer-sized game and one for large game.

so the question is: how big does a big deer get and what does it weigh(please mention if it is live weight or a carcass)?

Steffen,

Our white tail deer can run from under 80lb runts in areas with warm climate or low food quality to 200 plus pound corn eating bruisers in cold climate / high food quality areas.

I'll let someone out West describe Mule deer as I've only seen a few from a distance.

hth

Live weight of an average whitetail buck, (not including subspecies), is roughly 185 pounds at maturity. Whitetails have been killed in Canada that weighed 350-400 pounds, and I've killed mature bucks in Alabama aged at 6 years old that weighed 200.

The largest whitetail Doe I ever killed was in Iowa, and she weighed 202.

The smallest Does I've killed were in Alabama and average wt was 90 pounds.

4 of the 5 whitetail bucks I've killed in Ohio recently all weighed 240 prior to gutting.

" The Deer of North America" Leonard Lee Rue, Has a detailed discussion of the various sub-species of deer and their size .The Northern Whitetail [ along the US/Canada border and north ] can go as high as about 400 lbs . The smallest is the Key Deer a protected species in Florida .

"a deer" is a broad catagory. but any deer can be taken cleanly w/ the right caliber from the right distance hit in the right spot.

Whitetails of more than 200 lbs live weight are the stuff of legend. You will, however, find quite a few of them in the northern and farm belt regions. A few real "hogs" will actually top 300 lbs after a really good fall of munching on corn, but 400 lbs is a fantasy. In a few northern locations like the Maritime Provinces of Canada or states like Maine and perhaps Minnesota, hunters seem much more interested in body mass than in antlers and routinely weigh their un-gutted trophies on the scales at the feed store and such. Weights of the big bruisers, although atypical, can be pretty impressive. Some hunters "weigh" their deer by measuring its girth and using some multiplier formula. You can get some pretty impressive "weights" this way, needless to say.

Much more typical is a male of 110-180 lbs and a female of 80-130 lbs. You can find them smaller and you can find them larger, but 90% of the 50 million or so breeding age (non-juvenile) whitetails in the U.S. will go between 80 and 180 lbs on the hoof.

Mule deer are 25-50% larger than whitetails, with 250 lbs typical and 300 lbs not uncommon in bucks in the Rockies. Desert mule deer of northern Mexico and West Texas are mostly smaller than this.

I don't know what the top end is, but I remember seeing a photo taken about 40 years ago of a huge whitetail from Maine if my memory is right. According to the newspaper story, it weighed right at 400 whole.

The biggest mulie I ever saw was one my old grandfather shot when I was about 10 years old. Huge buck. It had 6 points on 1 side and 4 on the other. I still have the antlers and they have a 42 inch outside spread. When we hoisted that buck up on a livestock scale it blew our minds. Gutted, skinned and the lower legs cut off, it weighed 302 lbs. I'd have to guess that buck was close to 400 live weight.

We hung it next to a regular plain old 3x3 my Father took the same weekend, and if you didn't know better, you would have assumed one of them was a cow elk instead of the deer based on the size of the carcasses.

But, I'll admit I have never seeen a deer that big since and probably never will. A once in a lifetime beast.

Mac

Steffen, I'll go with Doc's post, all good examples there. However, I'm going to PM you some details concerning the Whitetail species of North America. It breaks down all sizes from our diminutive Key Deer to our giants of the Midwest.
Good hunting,
David

MD buck I shot weight in after gutting 211 lbs but most go 145 to 185 live weight with the big boys in the 250lb class.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
In a few northern locations like the Maritime Provinces of Canada or states like Maine and perhaps Minnesota, hunters seem much more interested in body mass than in antlers and routinely weigh their un-gutted trophies on the scales at the feed store and such. Weights of the big bruisers, although atypical, can be pretty impressive.

During the 1980s, I hunted whitetails in Nova Scotia near the town of Truro.

We went into town one evening to pick up some lobster tails and passed by the local sporting goods store. They had a big buck contest in progress and listed the top 10 on a two-sided sign-board set on the sidewalk.

I can't recall the largest or smallest now or whether they were using live weight or not, but every one of the 10 were over 300 pounds.

The next day at the lodge, some guy drove in at midday to use the outfitter's scale hanging in the tree outside the cabin I was in.

He had an 8-pt buck in the back of his truck that literally filled up the bed. It was about the size of a very healthy cow elk, and it took five of us to get it on to the scale. Ungutted, it weighed 386 lb. That indeed is pretty impressive.

Somewhere in my files of 75,000 of them, I have a 35mm slide of it hanging on the scale. I'll try to dig it out and scan it. -TONY

quote:

Originally posted by L. David Keith:
However, I'm going to PM you some details concerning the Whitetail species of North America.

thanks alot for the PM, i had no idea there were 17 subspecies of whitetails.
i just thought a whitetail was a whitetail.

to make things simple, we can say that 400lb is a huge deer no matter what
specie(pronghorn/whitetail/mule etc.)and that 150-300lb is the norm?


i'm really looking forward to my do-America-tour, and hopefully i will be able to go whitetail-hunting when i'm over there.

quote:

to make things simple, we can say that 400lb is a huge deer no matter what
specie(pronghorn/whitetail/mule etc.)and that 150-300lb is the norm?

To be realistic in terms of anticipation, I've only seen two Deer in my life (Illinois) that I could honestly say were in the 300+ lb live weight range. No big deal to resident's of our midwestern and our northern States, most woods wise Hunters have probably seen many in their lifetime. But it would be exceptional for a visiting non-resident to see, let alone take a true 300 lb class giant. Anything above 300 lbs and we're dealing with Goliath, a true pig amoungst pigs Our average dressed weight in TN has somewhat risen over the last 20 years, but I've only taken two that exceeded 160 lbs field dressed. Again, no big deal but that's out of 170 Whitetails. If you want true stats, visit each States Game and Fish web site and many will list age, weight (field dressed) and number of antler points. Best of luck on your tour.
Good hunting,
David

quote:

Whitetails of more than 200 lbs live weight are the stuff of legend.

That's not quite so. We killed three bucks on my ranch this year that weighed more than 200 pounds on the hoof. Two dressed at 204 and one at 184. So the biggest ones would have a live weight probably approaching 235 pounds. Not all Texas deer are runts!

I've killed California mule deer bucks that weighed less than 100 Lbs and Idaho mulie bucks that have gone over 200 Lbs (The biggest I've shot was 190 Lbs field dressed).

quote:

Originally posted by M16:

quote:

Whitetails of more than 200 lbs live weight are the stuff of legend.

That's not quite so. We killed three bucks on my ranch this year that weighed more than 200 pounds on the hoof. Two dressed at 204 and one at 184. So the biggest ones would have a live weight probably approaching 235 pounds. Not all Texas deer are runts!

I agree M16, but he did write:

quote:

You will, however, find quite a few of them in the northern and farm belt regions.

I've killed plenty of bucks in Ohio, Iowa, Missouri, and Kansas. Just about every mature buck I've taken, or saw taken was, on average 235-275. And yes, there have been 400 or so pound whitetail killed in Canada. That is not a fantasy. But, for me to see one is.

Then to be correct the quote should read

quote:

You will, however, find quite a few of them in the northern and farm belt regions as well as South Texas.

Man is everything smaller in USA If I shot a buck Mule/Whitetail under 200 lbs I don't think I would tell anybody about it no matter how big the rack.

Here is a 355 lb Maine Buck.

quote:

Originally posted by MAC:

The biggest mulie I ever saw was one my old grandfather shot when I was about 10 years old. Huge buck. It had 6 points on 1 side and 4 on the other. I still have the antlers and they have a 42 inch outside spread. When we hoisted that buck up on a livestock scale it blew our minds. Gutted, skinned and the lower legs cut off, it weighed 302 lbs. I'd have to guess that buck was close to 400 live weight.

We hung it next to a regular plain old 3x3 my Father took the same weekend, and if you didn't know better, you would have assumed one of them was a cow elk instead of the deer based on the size of the carcasses.

But, I'll admit I have never seeen a deer that big since and probably never will. A once in a lifetime beast.

Mac

If you have any pictures of that rack, I would love to see it. Sounds like one hell of an animal.

quote:

Originally posted by StormsGSP:

quote:

Originally posted by MAC:

The biggest mulie I ever saw was one my old grandfather shot when I was about 10 years old. Huge buck. It had 6 points on 1 side and 4 on the other. I still have the antlers and they have a 42 inch outside spread. When we hoisted that buck up on a livestock scale it blew our minds. Gutted, skinned and the lower legs cut off, it weighed 302 lbs. I'd have to guess that buck was close to 400 live weight.

We hung it next to a regular plain old 3x3 my Father took the same weekend, and if you didn't know better, you would have assumed one of them was a cow elk instead of the deer based on the size of the carcasses.

But, I'll admit I have never seeen a deer that big since and probably never will. A once in a lifetime beast.

Mac

If you have any pictures of that rack, I would love to see it. Sounds like one hell of an animal.

When I get back to Colorado, I'll take a pic of it. Right now, I'm stationed in Fl and I didn't bring many trophies with me down here. The rack is hanging on my wall in Peetz, Co.

It was one hell of a buck. Biggest I've ever seen and I grew up in the middle of the area that has produced a huge # or record book mulies. For what it is worth, the buck was killed in the 1973 time frame.

Mac

In general, LIVE mature males are less than 250lbs (110kg). There are exceptions in northern staes like Michigan and in Canada where they run 300+lbs (135kg).

I shot an Ohio corn fed 11 pointer 2 years ago that was weighed at 184 pounds field dressed. That gives a live weight about 225 to 230 pounds. It was not the biggest deer in the area either.

Stephan-9.3. I've hunted Minnesota, South Dakota, Pennsylvania, New Jersey and NW Florida plus vacationed in the Florida keys. To see an "American deer" is like a complete education of the whitetail. Hunting methods as well as size of deer are very different. I've seen a Key Deer in the florida keys that looked like a collie! Pennsylvania deer around Pittsburgh are little--100lbs. Northern Pennsylvania deer appear to be different--never shot one but bigger. NW FL deer are about 100lbs. S Minnesota deer have relatively little horns but long bodies. I've seen bucks that look like holstein heifers; little racks; 120-130 lb does. Northern MN bucks are deep bodied, 170-200 lb deer; does 130-140 lbs. South Dakota whitetails seem to be bigger bodied bucks, relatively smaller does. I'm no expert! Read Leonard Lee Rue, then pick your places to hunt.

Maine/New Hampsire/Vermont has one way of hunting, a culture all its own. New York, Pennsylvania is another culture. West Virginia has lots of deer, down into Virginia, the Carolinas into Georgia have their own hunting culture. NW Florida, Alabama another--they hunt with dogs. Go up to Iowa, IL, Missouri, S Minnesota, S Wisconsin, E South Dakota have their own hunting culture. Upper Peninsula Michigan is different. Go out into the Black Hills of South Dakota and Wyoming, they have a different kind of whitetail. We've covered a space that is twice the continent of Europe and there's whitetails even further west. You could spend a lifetime hunting whitetails and not see it all. Enjoy the experience. I never seem to miss the excitement of seeing this deer.

9.3 is a good number for deer.
Shotgun

quote:

Originally posted by Shotgun31:
Maine/New Hampsire/Vermont has one way of hunting, a culture all its own. New York, Pennsylvania is another culture. West Virginia has lots of deer, down into Virginia, the Carolinas into Georgia have their own hunting culture. NW Florida, Alabama another--they hunt with dogs. Go up to Iowa, IL, Missouri, S Minnesota, S Wisconsin, E South Dakota have their own hunting culture. Upper Peninsula Michigan is different. Go out into the Black Hills of South Dakota and Wyoming, they have a different kind of whitetail. We've covered a space that is twice the continent of Europe and there's whitetails even further west. You could spend a lifetime hunting whitetails and not see it all. Enjoy the experience. I never seem to miss the excitement of seeing this deer.

Spot on.

quote:

Much more typical is a male of 110-180 lbs and a female of 80-130 lbs. You can find them smaller and you can find them larger, but 90% of the 50 million or so breeding age (non-juvenile) whitetails in the U.S. will go between 80 and 180 lbs on the hoof.

I've had the good luck to kill some extraordinarily large deer, also (one out of a hundred), but does anyone disagree with the above statement?

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:

quote:

Much more typical is a male of 110-180 lbs and a female of 80-130 lbs. You can find them smaller and you can find them larger, but 90% of the 50 million or so breeding age (non-juvenile) whitetails in the U.S. will go between 80 and 180 lbs on the hoof.

I've had the good luck to kill some extraordinarily large deer, also (one out of a hundred), but does anyone disagree with the above statement?

the 124" i killed in AR last season only weighed 140 pounds.
the raglly 6 i dropped in SC first SAT of season was 208.
go figure.

I allways thought this was the nub of the matter when people discuss deer hunting calibres.

The red hinds I've shot weighed 166lb with no head, legs or internal organs - live weight about 250lb?

I reckon our fallow are the same size as your average WTD.

quote:

Originally posted by Shotgun31:
Maine/New Hampsire/Vermont has one way of hunting, a culture all its own. New York, Pennsylvania is another culture. West Virginia has lots of deer, down into Virginia, the Carolinas into Georgia have their own hunting culture. NW Florida, Alabama another--they hunt with dogs. Go up to Iowa, IL, Missouri, S Minnesota, S Wisconsin, E South Dakota have their own hunting culture. Upper Peninsula Michigan is different. Go out into the Black Hills of South Dakota and Wyoming, they have a different kind of whitetail. We've covered a space that is twice the continent of Europe and there's whitetails even further west. You could spend a lifetime hunting whitetails and not see it all. Enjoy the experience. I never seem to miss the excitement of seeing this deer.

Shotgun

The only deer and culture you left out seems to be the Coues and its devout pursuers.

Plus, it is the only subspecies with its own category in both the B&C and P&Y records books. -TONY

quote:

Originally posted by Shotgun31:
9.3 is a good number for deer.
Shotgun

i don't got it anymore, besides i think it would be wrong to bring a euro gun/cartridge to hunt in America.

i was thinking of bringing a peep-sighted Marlin 336 .30-30win

It varies from region to region, it can vary a large amount within mere miles.

I always say that deer weight is directly proportionate to the quality of the soil.

I hunt one area in the Mississippi River Delta that has top quality soil and produces mature 3.5-5.5 year old bucks that weigh an average of anywhere from 200-275lbs live weight, some more some less. The weight is also dependant upon the rut as well as a mature buck can and will commonly loose up to 40+ pounds by the end of the rut. I killed two mature bucks in that area in 06, one was pre rut and went 240 the other was shrivled up post rut and only went 195. That said 50 miles to the East in the piney hills of North La we commonly kill mature bucks that weigh in at a whopping 140-160 lbs Of course, the local Redneck population calls those "250 Pounders."

It all depends on the quality of the soil and the available groceries....



Reloader

Steffan,

I don't see why one would be concerned abt using a "European" caliber on deer. I've taken them with 9,3x62 and 9,3x74R in Texas and West Virginia ... all dropped at the shot.

30-30 is pretty light.

A few Texas deer I've seen were pretty good sized. Most are small. Many WV WTD are pretty decent in size. A few are huge.

WTD hunting is varied and fun. Enjoy your trip.

quote:

30-30 is pretty light

what kind of crap are you smoking? The 30-30 and .303 british have taken more moose and elk in North America than probaly any other cartridges (30-06 excluded). Sometimes you guys blow me away with your "minimum calibers for deer" Its just a friggin deer if you hit it in the lungs a .223 will dummy it.

quote:

Originally posted by 1894mk2:
I allways thought this was the nub of the matter when people discuss deer hunting calibres.

The red hinds I've shot weighed 166lb with no head, legs or internal organs - live weight about 250lb?

I reckon our fallow are the same size as your average WTD.

Fallows will average somewhat larger than whitetails. That's what is misleading about people citing their largest kill or their "trophy" kills. While large whitetails may be similar in size to large fallows, the AVERAGE fallow will outweigh the AVERAGE whitetail. We have plenty of fallows stocked in many places around the U.S. to compare.

250 lbs sounds about right for a red deer female. Their wapiti cousins here will run about 500 or so. If a good bull elk (wapiti) goes 700-800, I would guess a commensurate red stag to go, say 400?

The average deer weight for the first early muzzle loader hunt in Ohio years ago was 250#. I have killed 2 doe that went 200# and 202# over the years. I watched an 18 point buck in Ohio that would easy go over 400#. There was one hit by a truck south of Columbus that dressed 420#. It was also 18 points.
Yes there are big Whitetails but on the average it will depend on where you hunt. I shot a lot of PA deer that were lucky to make 80 or 90#.
Big ones are rare but they CAN get big. Good food, lots of mineral in the soil and the ability to keep from getting shot and the Michigan whitetail can get huge.

The heaviest WT buck I shot was 198 dressed. The average has been 150 ish dressed. I hunt south west PA in a good mix of woods and farmland. I think our deer would be bigger if they got to live longer but getting a deer older than 2.5 years is the trick.

Some of the posts are suggesting soil type, food, mineral and so on have a bearing on deer size.
Here's something to consider: Northern states and especially Canada have the largest deer on average hands down. Many of these big deer come from regions where we can have up to 9 months of snow and sub-zero Celsius temps and they're most certainly not supplemented with feed or mineral. For half the year these deer need to use their hooves to dig through the snow to get enough food to prevent starvation.
My 2007 WT weighed 180 without hide, head, & organs and was likely only 3 years old.
If food availability had anything to do with weight all the hawgs would be way south of the border. By rights Florida should have all the giants.

Interesting topic,

GordM

Yes, and cabbages and pumpkins grow to enormous sizes in Alaska, despite the fact that Alaska is generally a harsh place for crops.

ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL, whitetails will grow to larger weights where the soil, and thus food, are better. But the reason that northermost whitetails are generally larger is due to the fact (named for the scientist who first described it and whose name escapes me at the moment) that the further from the Equator that a given species appears, the larger the individual animals tend to be.

This is thought to be most directly related to heat conservation. Larger animals lose heat less quickly than smaller animals. It is an evolutionary advantage for the more northerly subspecies of whitetails to be larger, thus allowing them to survive colder winters. More southerly whitetails tend to be smaller, allowing them to cope with heat better. There are, of course, inconsistencies in the southern-northern continuum, but those are mostly explained by the difference in soil and food. Sometimes they may be a result of localized genetic anomolies.

Back to the question at hand: When someone asks how large is a human, it is somewhat pointless to first review the weights of Sumo wrestlers and NFL linemen. Once again, 90% of breeding age whitetails will fall between 80 and 180 lbs. The ten percent who go outside of that range are the animal equivalents of Sumo wrestlers and female gymnasts or runway models.

quote:

what kind of crap are you smoking? The 30-30 and .303 british have taken more moose and elk in North America than probaly any other cartridges (30-06 excluded). Sometimes you guys blow me away with your "minimum calibers for deer" Its just a friggin deer if you hit it in the lungs a .223 will dummy it.

here here last year a new Irish record Red Stag was shot in Donegal (and was also the 2nd largest in the UK) it was 257kg (445lbs) and was shot with a 100gr soft point from a 243.
In Ireland and the UK there are more deer shot with a 243 than anything else

There's not a deer alive that can't be had with a 30-30 used within the proper range with proper bullets.

I've had two spike elk that Fish & Game weighed (field dressed) at their check station at 300 and 305 lbs. I also checked a field dressed cow elk that they weighed at 350 lbs.

I have hunted both Mule and Whitetail Deer and Elk in Colorado and Montana for over 40 yrs and have shot over 3 dozen deer and 32 elk. I have never seen any deer, Mule or Whitetail, alive or dead that was even close to the size of a spike elk.