Is this the case...? I was under the impression that they could successfully be baited and called where legal.

I was hoping to employ some calling techniques in central Washington state this winter given the opportunity.

Any information on successful techniques would be appreciated.
CD

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Praise the Lord, and pass the ammunition!

If your living like there is no HELL, you better be right!

ZM

I was hoping to employ some calling techniques in central Washington state this winter given the opportunity.CD[/B][/QUOTE]

North Eastern WA. From the Cloumbia river east and the Spokane river north is great cat country!!

Have fun!!

A turkey hunter hear a few years back was attacked my a mountain lion when he was working his turkey call.He got pretty chewed up and lived to tell about it but there wasn't much left of the cat after two or three rounds of 12 guage 3.5 inch magnums at point blank range.

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I'm out to wrong rights,depress the opressed,and generaly make an ass of myself!

I have only ever heard of one person talking about taking a mountain lion over bait, and that was an outfitter/PH who postson a another forum who was after a problem animal which had killed some of his goats. If I remember the story correctly, he tracked the animal until he found where the carcass had been hidden by the cougar then waited over it. Not sure whether mountain lions are a scavangers or not, so not sure if placing a dead bait would work. Also, don't the trappers use a scent lure and something like a hanging feather as an attractant for cougars???

A sporting goods store owner in Idaho told me he bow hunted lions by calling them in. This same blowhard also told me lions will jump out of trees onto a passing hunter, so all hunters should carry handguns. I took everything he said with a grain of salt.

Jason

The second lion was called in on purpose in Arizona while hunting with a friend of mine that calls lions for a living. He uses an electronic caller with a fawn decoy and a combination of distress and lion sounds. Last season he called in 20 lions. His clients take about 40% of those called in. On the rest, they either don't get a shot, freeze, or blow the shot. Here is a link to Steve's site if you want some more information: http://www.azpredatorhunts.com/

Good Hunting,

Bob C.

It seems to me that there is a tremendous opportunity in western U.S. for anyone who is interested in lion hunting, providing you like a good challenge and have a little creative ability.

I am continually awe-inspired by this forum!

Gentlemen...Thank you! CD

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Ethiopian Rift Valley Safaris

South Western desert Lions will not come to bait or return to kills, as a rule....Pacific North West Lions get hungry and will sometimes come to a bait and will return to kills. MOstly because they are hunting winter feed grounds, I suspect and have modified behavior to the circumstances..

Lots of garbage about Lions out there such as killing the weak animals in a deer herd so the herd will survive when in fact LIons are a better judge of carcass condition than the best butcher..they will pick the fattest doe in the bunch when given a choice and they kill the very biggest of bucks during the rut when the bucks stink and are easy to find..A lion can kill the biggest bull elk out there if he takes a mind to....Lions kill by breaking the neck with the paw and will usually eat the stomach contents of an animal first of all, thats Lion salad...well I could go on and on about Lions but thats getting off the question...

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Juneau
I know what you mean about bears. Early in my deer hunting experiences on Kodiak Island I learned that one didn't spend a lot of time admiring the kill...once the crows and magpies started squawking, the nearest brown bear would be there in short order!

I know of several instances where bears have come to dear and predator calls.

I have lost a good number of deer kills to brown bear...one in particular while my partner and I were "Admiring" the kill!
CD

[This message has been edited by cubdriver (edited 01-08-2002).]

[This message has been edited by cubdriver (edited 01-08-2002).]

First, mountain lions will return to kills. I personally witnessed a mountain lion deer kill in late afternoon and saw the lion leaving the site the following morning. Also, there was a case of a homeowner at the edge of Tucson who phoned the state game and fish department to report there was a mountain lion standing atop his patio wall. The officer who investigated found the lion sleeping in a tree a few hundred yards up the side of the mountain; just behind the patio wall was a dead deer partially covered up with brush. The homeowner and the officers kept tabs on it for a few days as the lion kept returning until the deer was completely devoured.

I once personally witnessed a lion killing a deer in late afternoon and then watched the lion leaving the scene early the following morning. It might have been there all night, or it might have left and come back, I can't really say.

As for eating stomachs, lions remove stomachs from their dead prey but don't eat them. (For what it's worth, my house cat doesn't eat the stomachs of the mice and wood rats it kills. Seems eating stomachs just isn't a cat thing.) Lions eat the lungs and organs of their prey first, then hind quarters, then the rest of the meat. Coincidentally or otherwise, this happens also to be the order in which meat will spoil.

Coyotes often manage to harrass lions into leaving their kills by skulking about the scene in packs, thus taking advantage of the mountain lion's innate nervousness. Coyotes do eat paunches, and lion kills with the stomachs missing and the prey's parts spread all around were probably taken over by coyotes, whereas killed prey that have the stomachs lying next to the body and the body otherwise fairly intact except for missing meat and organs will usually display only the tracks of mountain lions.

The above information was given to me by a Saguaro National Park ranger who specializes in tracking and reconstructing scenes both for law enforcement and wildlife management purposes.

Pete

Here are my points. And you thought there wasn't a point
That cat had not really left that kill. He had just moved off a 100-200 yds and was resting and digesting. In my book for him to go back and eat from it again isn't concidered returning. He never really left.

Things of note;
I never saw any tracks until I got to the eating sight. He must have been tragging it behind him self as he pulled back wards. This would cover the tracks in the snow.

I spoke to another hunter later in the day that said he saw deer boiling out of the canyon right at sunup. I had been in there all day my self ariving around 1 hour after sunup. I found this kill about two in the afternoon. So that cat had been there around 6-7 hours. I asume it's killing this big buck is what scared the other deer out at sunup. So 6-7 hours later that cat still up a tree watching its kill.

My real point is this every time we think we know the animal kingdom. It will throw us a curve. Maybe in Rays area there is enough game the cats don't need to gaurd a kill or have need to return to one. These are very good hunters and killers. If the game is there it's nothing for lion to kill it. So why would they stay and gaurd leftovers, or come back for left overs. I read that the most nuterants in an animal are in the intestines. That is why Cats, bears, and dogs eat them first.(It's instingtive) So once there gone why return when there are more animals in the area to kill.

Animals rarely follow our rules of what we think they will or won't do. there are definit speices patterns of behavoir, but they will change, and adapt in differnt areas to survive.
It's what I love about the great outdoors that God blessed us with. Every day you will learn something if you just watch for it!
JMHO X-Ring AKA Scooter

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Praise the Lord, and pass the ammunition!

If your living like there is no HELL, you better be right!

[This message has been edited by X-Ring (edited 01-08-2002).]

He said calling lions can be done, but you first have to know there is even a lion in the area. So, you'll look for tracks, then try calling...Might get lucky. He was of the opinion that if you could find a track, why waste time calling? Just put the dogs on it. Of course, this doesn't help our Washington friend who can't use dogs.

For those who care, pictures of my lion (hunt) are at:
http://www.suburbia.com/~mbundy/lion.html

My father has a picture taken by a family friend of two bucks locked together with one of them being dead. There is a lion eating on the haunches of the dead one. I'll see if I can get the picture from him long enough to scan in...

Michael

I have always believed that any predator could be deceived into thinking his prey was at hand... though challenging it may be.

I've been fairly successful calling predators here at home, although wolves are tough nut to crack because of their social structure and the fact that they're moving a lot in the winter... but back to my point.

I think Boddington underrates calling because there are only a handful of hunters who are consistently successful...probably because lions are not as easy as coyotes and traditionally it's been a game for houndsmen...anyway, I've located what I believe to be a high density cat area and I'm gona give it a shot!

Gentlemen
Thanks again for all the great posts in this thread
CD

[This message has been edited by cubdriver (edited 01-09-2002).]

I have guided for an outfitter in northwestern Colorado for mountain lions for about 10 years, so I have been fortunate to see a lot of lions. In my work with the Forest Service here in Utah I have also seen a few, found lots of kills, had a run-in with a large Tom on a fire in Idaho, etc., so I have been able to observe some of their habits in this part of the country. They do return to kills as long as the meat is unspoiled, so in the winter they eat most of it. They generally rest a short distance from the kill where they can watch it and eat about twice a day. This can really confuse the dogs because there are tracks going everywhere around the kill. A mature lion probably kills a deer about every 10 days in this area.

One interesting thing I have noticed is how precisely they follow the same route around their territory, which may take up to 2 weeks. The only one I have taken myself crossed the road in the same place about every 10 days. It took 3 years to catch him because he would always go into a canyon that seemed to have several sets of tracks and the dogs would get off on another lion. One that we never did catch would for years pass an old dead spruce tree on the same side, and leave a "scratch" in the same spot.

I have known several people who have called lions with a predator call. They come in slow and quiet like a bobcat, not running like a coyote, so the hunter may move on before the cat gets there. The hunter may also not see the cat. Gerry Blair is a well-known predator caller who has written a book called "Predator Caller's Companion". It has a chapter on calling mountain lions.

Good luck with your calling. Let us know how it works.

Please encourage your friends to hunt bear and wolf in unit 16B. It is ashamed that the Game Board has let the Wolf/bear situation get out of conrol over there...moose calf survival rate will be 0 this spring and moose hunting will remain closed for many more years to come.
I flew over to close up my hunting camp in August,since we can't hunt moose there any more,and found a piece of siding ripped off the cabin and one or more bruins had ransacked the place...looked like a claymore mine had gone off inside! they even ate my 4-wheeler seat...Anyway...I better not get started on that!

I usally shoot my .270 with 130 Barnes-XLC from the first of March on because of the reason you spoke of...but I've taken most of my predators with a .22 mag including a very large wolverine.
CD

Dale
Thanks for the information on Harley Shaw...I'll call the AZ. F&G Dept and see what what I can find out.
CD

Cubdriver, I'm curious to know what cartridge you plan to use, and what bullet you plan to use. Obviously, it would be ideal to keep the hide as clean as possible while taking the cat quickly and humanely, and I'm struggling between a .270 Win. using 130gr. Partitions, or a .223 with 60gr. Partitions.

I do have some experience with the .223 and given the circumstances that I'll be hunting under, I'll Rely on 59.0 gr of H-4831 behind a 130gr Nosler to extinguish all 9 lives at once...if I'm fortunate enough to bring one in my first time around.

I think the 130 XLC load that I use for sheep and caribou will over penetrate the slender shoulder/lung area of a lion, although, I may be mistaken about that.
But I am very confident however, that the front half of the 130 Nosler will devastate at least the off lung and exit doing a little damage to the pelt of course...But better to err on the side of caution... I don't think lion tracks on my face would bode well with my wife!

If this were a traditional hunt with hounds, where your shot was very close and you could position yourself for a perfect shot, one might consider the .223 or a handgun ect...you have the option of turning the dogs loose again...But, like you I prefer a clean humane kill.
CD

I have no knowledge of Arizona Lions or Lions that hang around town, but they apparantly have different habits, even to attacking dogs, and thats plumb unnatural for a Lion, they run from dogs by nature or at least where hunted..One thing I have learned about wild animals and that is they just might do anything, so when I make a statement about them I am making reference to what they normally do in a wild state, in a certain area. Like I said, Lions will return to a kill in the Pacific Northwest time and time again as they feed in elk wintering grounds and these lions will even eat animals that they have not killed and that is also unnatural to Mt. Lions.

Take into consideration that a Lion kills a deer about every 3rd day in a natural environment and that being excepted fact, then why would one return to a kill after an extended period, doesn't make since..again except under starvation condidtons

Thats just my call, but I know Lions, even lived with an old she lion for years, she never did get used to me...

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com