As a hunter, and more specifically a predator hunter in grizzly country, I always recognize the potential for a bear attack when calling. I try to follow all of the rules for calling safety but realize that sometimes "stuff" happens! This was brought home to me about 4 yrs ago when an adult female black bear in perfect condition came after me in a full predatory attack with my scent blowing directly into her face. Miraculously, I saw her in time to shove the barrel towards her face and shoot her through the mouth killing her instantly. Shooting an animal in self defense is not fun, nor is the subsequent investigation by state game wardens and bear management specialists. Since then I am even more careful with site selection when calling, particularly in heavy timber.

To that end I practice a lot of close range shooting with my rifles and my 10mm pistol. Equally important I mentally practice what I will do in response to an attack.

This weekend I setup a motorized target in the backyard and outfitted it with one of the Alaska State Parks charging bear training targets.






I invited several of my friends over but did not tell them why. They were just told to bring their rifle and sidearm because we were going to do something different.

Everybody got a chance to shoot both their rifle and handgun from a variety of positions.



Click "img" on left side below for video......


I was very happy not to embarrass myself to badly.




Click "img" on left side below for video........



At the end of the day one of my friends said "You know, this may have saved my life". He carries a .357 revolver and after multiple runs he only had one hit (near the top of the back), the rest were clean misses. He was very honest when he said that he had never given much thought to shooting moving targets and will be spending a lot more time practicing.

While I realize most talk of bear guns and stopping power is just recreational mental gymnastics because few of us will ever be faced with the situation, it is a confidence booster to have some experience with shooting at moving targets.

P.S. The motor is a commercial unit from Action Targets in Utah. Variable speed that can probably push 20mph with a light target. We were running it at 10mph due to the uneven terrain. The cart is a homemade device that I use at my Safari Rifle shoot every year. It is also REALLY, REALLY fun! Good Hunting, be safe. JCS

That looks like great, educational fun ! I would say it is a great way to introduce folks to quick gun handling.
If you want a tougher and more realistic course have it moving through something like those trees and brush in the background, where is it both in and out of sight and see if you can make the target wobble erratically to simulate the way a real bear runs. Maybe make one or two of the wheels slightly erratic .
Then to make it tougher, and more realistic, start it with your back to the target, and rifle either in hand, on sling or pistol in holster !

That would certainly up the realism. Yesterday I was just working the bugs out of the cart before my safari rifle shoot next month.

looks like fun - much better than my way of practicing a charge - running away and shooting over my shoulder

very good set up and practise.

good idea.

I like it!

Great idea. Any practice that simulates reality is a good idea. The suggestion to add some brush and start out facing away is a good idea I think.

Either way familiarity with your guns goes a long way when the moment comes and you don't have time to consciously think about what your doing.

quote:

Equally important I mentally practice what I will do in response to an attack.

Could be more import then being able to shoot.

Nice set up when I practice I say bear to mentally prepare my self. Some times I shoot some times I do not shoot.

I do not want to get into the habit of always shooting if there is a bear there. But want to prepare in case I need to.

Understanding some thing is going on is very important. To many times I heard is self defense cases I heard.

I could not believe it was happening to me.

Practicing turning around and shooting is important to.

quote:

Then to make it tougher, and more realistic, start it with your back to the target, and rifle either in hand, on sling or pistol in holster

The possibility for training is only limited to ones imagination.

Just for fun and to add a little stress have them try it with no round in the chamber to start with. Bolt action and doubles

I agree with Phil: add some stress and see what it is like.

Also, I would look at the anatomy of a bear and consider aiming a little bit lower...more at their nose for one charging. That way if you are a bit high, you still hit it.

Matt

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
Just for fun and to add a little stress have them try it with no round in the chamber to start with. Bolt action and doubles

During my career as a firearms instructor I have trained a lot people.

One time I was giving my wife a lesson as she wanted to carry while picking blue berries.

So I gave her a five quart pail and she had her 357 on her hip. I then yelled bear shoot shoot. She just stood their holding onto the pail.

I said way didn't you shoot she said I didn't know what to do with the pail.

I told her drop it. She did find after that.

I see many students hold on to useless items when it was time to shoot and defend themselves.

Flashlights citation books ect ect.

One can not cover every possible scenario but any training is better then none and the more you do the better you well react.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
Just for fun and to add a little stress have them try it with no round in the chamber to start with. Bolt action and doubles

Phil you need to come to my safari shoot. We do a variety of empty rifle and reload scenarios just to make people think while they are shooting the scenario. It is sometimes interesting to watch!

quote:

Originally posted by Matt Moore:
I agree with Phil: add some stress and see what it is like.

Also, I would look at the anatomy of a bear and consider aiming a little bit lower...more at their nose for one charging. That way if you are a bit high, you still hit it. Matt

Matt, if you look closely at the photo of the target the "kill zone" circle is just barely above the eyes and well down the chest. Its pretty good I think. My personal aiming point and the one I recommend to anybody interested is the tip of the nose. Like you said, a little off in any direction will still be a good hit.

That target is basically comformed like a small bear. The large boars have shoulders a lot wider than the head and a bullet that passes anywhere between the point of the shoulder and the brain will usually put them down.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
Just for fun and to add a little stress have them try it with no round in the chamber to start with. Bolt action and doubles

During my career as a firearms instructor I have trained a lot people.

One time I was giving my wife a lesson as she wanted to carry while picking blue berries.

So I gave her a five quart pail and she had her 357 on her hip. I then yelled bear shoot shoot. She just stood their holding onto the pail.

I said way didn't you shoot she said I didn't know what to do with the pail.

I told her drop it. She did find after that.

I see many students hold on to useless items when it was time to shoot and defend themselves.

Flashlights citation books ect ect.

One can not cover every possible scenario but any training is better then none and the more you do the better you well react.

Most bear attacks happen so quickly, there's no time to react. By the time you see the bear .it's too late. Best defense is to be totally aware of your surroundings at all times, including when you're packing a pail of berries.

Grizz

It must be a trained response , no thinking !!

One of the interesting studies is what people do in emergencies .Such as a fire . My neighbor was a was a fairly common response . She got out of the house and in one hand held her husband's new shoes and in the other a little figure her young son made for her in kindergarten !!
Yes training is the only solution !

I went to a shoot in Oregon a few years ago and they had a cape Buffalo on that same set up, then a Lion running broadside at 100 yards. It was fun..I never got a first place but got 7 second places..I was shooting irons with my .375 H&H Mauser. I thought it was strictly an iron sight shoot. It was hard to see the line drawn on the target animals depicting the bullseye, so I just shot for center mass, It was fun day and the tri tip was awesome.

This should settle the question of should you hunt with an empty chamber or not,

Like a high percentage of Alaskan guides I insist on both guides and clients carrying rifles without a round in the chamber for a number of reasons. The terrain is rough and there are not bears behind every bush waiting to jump out at you and basically I am a lot more afraid of a loaded rifle and how quickly it can kill me than any bear.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
Like a high percentage of Alaskan guides I insist on both guides and clients carrying rifles without a round in the chamber for a number of reasons. The terrain is rough and there are not bears behind every bush waiting to jump out at you and basically I am a lot more afraid of a loaded rifle and how quickly it can kill me than any bear.

My sentiment exactly. I don't mind carrying a loaded rifle by myself, but I really don't feel comfortable carrying a loaded gun with a guide ahead of me.

Whenever I take a new shooter out, typically someone young, I set up a can of Coke and tell him to shoot it. Then I say, "Imagine if that was someone's head - the quickest way to ruin your life and end someone else's is to shoot him."

quote:

Most bear attacks happen so quickly, there's no time to react. By the time you see the bear .it's too late

Actually studying bears attacks I found that with a lot of them there is some warning of some type seeing the bear, hearing bear or other ways of knowing a bear is around.

A well trained hand gun shooter can get a handgun out and in use in around a second and half and hit his target at 7 yards.

A person carrying a loaded long gun or handgun on the ready right around a second.

From a thread in 2006 on carrying with an empty chamber.
just did some time testing with my son a well season bolt gun user.

Rifle in both hands safety on time to the shot.
avg for 10 trys.
1 second.

Rifle in both hands safety off no round in the chamber avg for 10 trys.
2.5 seconds.

Now if you have a empty chamber and safety on the time would even be greater add hanging from the shoulder or pack, times could easily be 10 seconds or more.

On your avg spot and stalk hunt you are not going to loose the chance.

When one is talking about shooting jumped game or running game.

Or even more important selfdefense the 1.5 second loss of time becomes very important.

For information I did not tell him why I wanted to time him.

I would be willing to bet that self inflicted gun shot wounds are more prevalent than bear maulings

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
I would be willing to bet that self inflicted gun shot wounds are more prevalent than bear maulings

I am guessing you are right.I had a black bear stand up within 5 feet of me yesterday.I would not have had a prayer if it attacked,but it just was curious.

Hey Bob:

Did you p your panties??

George

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

Most bear attacks happen so quickly, there's no time to react. By the time you see the bear .it's too late

Actually studying bears attacks I found that with a lot of them there is some warning of some type seeing the bear, hearing bear or other ways of knowing a bear is around.

A well trained hand gun shooter can get a handgun out and in use in around a second and half and hit his target at 7 yards.

A person carrying a loaded long gun or handgun on the ready right around a second.

From a thread in 2006 on carrying with an empty chamber.
just did some time testing with my son a well season bolt gun user.

Rifle in both hands safety on time to the shot.
avg for 10 trys.
1 second.

Rifle in both hands safety off no round in the chamber avg for 10 trys.
2.5 seconds.

Now if you have a empty chamber and safety on the time would even be greater add hanging from the shoulder or pack, times could easily be 10 seconds or more.

On your avg spot and stalk hunt you are not going to loose the chance.

When one is talking about shooting jumped game or running game.

Or even more important selfdefense the 1.5 second loss of time becomes very important.

For information I did not tell him why I wanted to time him.

Why would you carry a gun with an empty chamber AND the safety on? There's no need to have the safety on plus you don't know the condition the rifle is in. Meaning do I really have no round chambered and need to? Or did I really have a round in the chamber ready to go.

If I had the empty chamber I would also have the safety off. Then it's a simple matter to just run the bolt, aim and shoot. I never vary what I do. That way I always know without second guessing the rifles present condition. The less thinking involved the better when you have to shoot quickly. It's also safer for all involved.

Speaking if close in counters with black bears, a couple years back I had a sow that tried to getting into my stand on a baited hunt in northern Alberta. Over the years I've thumped more than a few bears in the nose with my rifle barrel or arrow (I've mostly bow hunted in past years) when they climbed my tree to check me out. Since dominate bears chase smaller bears up trees this is pretty normal for them to come up to see if your a threat to them. Usually they make their point and climb back down. It makes great video for when you get back home.

This time a sow came to the bait obviously really keyed up. If I made even the slightest move she would bluff charge. There wasn't any cubs in sight but I believe she did have some. She bluff charged several times up to my tree then climbed a bit, popping her jaws & hissing then climbed up to my stand. From there she hesitated hissing and jaw popping then started climb in with me. I decided enough was enough. I had my rifle in one hand and pepper spray in the other. I really didn't want to shoot her so I gave her a blast of spray from about arms length. That got her attention and down she went out of the tree. She still hung around for another hour or so obviously still not happy. This was by far the most determined bear I've ever seen in forty plus years of hunting and videoing them. She clearly from the start didn't want me there.

This is the only time I've ever used pepper spray and I have to say I does work.

quote:

Why would you carry a gun with an empty chamber AND the safety on? There's no need to have the safety on plus you don't know the condition the rifle is in

Why do people do any thing that doesn't make sense.

Most of the time when I have a conversation with people about carrying guns in condition zero.

Empty chamber safety on is to be really really really safe.

On bolt guns to stop the bolt from accidently opening up. I seen that happen several times when hanging from a sling.

I had a client that insisted that he was going to carry his S@W shield with safety on empty chamber to be super safe.

I told him he had to practice that way every time all the time.

Invariable he would forget to take the safety off and he would forget to rack the slide when the pressure was on.

He would draw try shooting look at his gun with a puzzled look then remember what to do.

Sorry a deadly combination when trying to save your life.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
I would be willing to bet that self inflicted gun shot wounds are more prevalent than bear maulings

When one factors in suicide you are correct. How many self inflected firearm wounds do you hear about happening during hunting.

Then compare that to the number of bear attacks.

Accidental shooting during hunting has been dropping for decades. Bear attacks increasing.

Self inflicted accidental gun shot wounds when hunting are very rare.

Then if one wants to play with the odds one would never carry a gun for self defense because the odds say you well never need one.

Until you do.

quote:

Originally posted by georgeld:
Hey Bob:

Did you p your panties??

George

No ,bears are pretty common around here,but the hairs on my neck stood up as I backed away.

quote:

Originally posted by OLBIKER:

quote:

Originally posted by georgeld:
Hey Bob:

Did you p your panties??

George

No ,bears are pretty common around here,but the hairs on my neck stood up as I backed away.

Same in my part of Wis. lots of the black things around.

Bears are becoming quite common here in Vermont, twenty years ago a bear sighting was a big deal now we are pulling bird feeders off the porch in April so as not to tempt the bears.
This spring we have a Sow and 3 of last years cubs being seen some what on a regular basis in the pasture eating meadow grass and another Sow and Boar that occasionally pass through. As much as it is a pleasure to see them they seem to be to comfortable near humans, I'm thinking I need to discourage this behavior.
Thoughts
Thanks

quote:

I'm thinking I need to discourage this behavior

I do not tolerate varmints around my place they normally leave very fast after a very loud noise.

The ones that are legal to shoot tend to stay around permanently.

Having a very large dog cuts way down and the number of times one needs to act.