[By starting out with an '06 or 270 and then working their way up.]

Thats so true, a 270 shoots flatter w/130 gr bullet and right at it w/150 gr. Easier on the shoulder which translates to accuracy.

Nearly every good bullet in the right place will kill no matter the caliber.

But...I believe, and it's only my modest opinion, that the times I have shot animals with a magnum, a 300wm and an 8 mm, it seems that the animals accused much more the impact, I don't know how to say it in english, but when something has air inside and loose it..that was my impression.

Despite that, my rifles are a 9,3x62 and a 3006

It seems that ENERGY makes the difference in some kind of animals, specially thin skined animals.

I have use both calibers in the same kind of game and they both have their job done, but I insist, the ones shot with the faster caliber accused much more the impact..at least that was my impression.

What I don't understand is that feeling among some hunters that they need more practise with a 300 mag than using a 3006..

Under hunting conditions they are very similar to shoot, if there is any difference will be more because the stock shape or the rifle weight than because some more grains of powder.

Both will work, one will be a little cheaper to reload and a little easier on your ears

L

I went thru my magnum craze starting with a 338 then to a 300 Win mag. Killed a few elk with each and went back to my 30-06. I am however playing with the 35 Whelen now and hopefully the Elk tag Gods will fix me up soon.

quote:

Originally posted by Hipshoot:

As you can see, if you have a .300 WM you can also have .30-06 ballistics.

Hipshot

Great point! Totally looked over that fact. You can have your 300 mag, load it down to 06 levels, and when wanted/needed you can stoke her back up

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

How would someone develop the knowledge and skill for a 300 Mag if they don’t use one?

By starting out with an '06 or 270 and then working their way up.

I couldn’t agree with you more but you still need to shoot a 300 Win to develop the skills (as with any Mag). I started out shooting a 270 at 12 years old and went to a 300 Win Mag when I turned 20. There was a huge difference. A lot more kick and heavier/longer gun. As I practiced and got use to the gun, I found I could hit things at greater distances and it felt like I was shooting a canyon. I felt like if I put it anywhere near the shoulder that animal is going down! It gave me a huge boost of confidence and I think that’s the most important part in hunting.

Now I’m getting that same feeling with my new 375 H&H.

Whatever you get practice – practice – practice.

Vapodog,
I suppose it amounts to how you interpet beats the socks off of it. I mean that my 300 H&H will drive a 220 gr. bullet at the same velocity as the 30-06 drives a 180 gr. bullet..

I understand your point as there is very little difference in any of the big game calibers under good circumstances. but in the trenches and bad angles etc. we have to determine which ones have the "edge" I do this by picking a caliber that will shoot through the animal I am hunting lengthwise 90% of the time, one that will break the shoulder knuckle everytime..

Like you claim, the 30-06 is capable of killing any animal on earth and I agree with you, but there are a few calibers a bit better on the larger animals IMO...

quote:

I couldn’t agree with you more but you still need to shoot a 300 Win to develop the skills

No arguement here in principal, I skipped the 12 to 20 step with the 270, my first big game rifle was a 300 Win Mag..

All I am saying is that not everyone is ready to step up to one of the 30 Mags, even after years of shooting an '06 or 270.

Does that mean that they can not hunt the same game as those of us that do use the larger calibers, I do not think so.

As Atkinson stated in his post, I like the 30 mags and larger simply because not every shot is a text book target.

A person used to the '06 and comfortable and confident with it, knows the shots that they can or should take.

The folks with the larger calibers have a little larger window on the kinds of shots we can take, but even with all the power the 30 mags and the larger calibers have, bullet placement is still important.

Just one of those cases where we will need to agree to disagree on the subject, because I would rather see someone that is confident with a 30-06 taking the shots that they know that they can make, than someone taking any kind of shot with a 30 mag, asimply because they think it will make up for their lack of skill.

If a person has taken the time to work with the 300 Win Mag and knows how to use it at its full potential, then that is great. JMO.

I went from iron sight on a 30-30 to a BLR in .308 and was a happy Deer hunter. I have never owned or shot a 30-06, didn't need it with the .308. I then got the opportunity to go to Alberta Elk hunting and got my first .300 Winny. With reloads it was a revelation to this country boy, I thought it was big enough for the world. A close encounter with 4 Brown Bears at the same time convenced me that in that country bigger was better and went to a .340 Wby. It served me well for Moose and Elk for years, then I graduated to .338 Lapua, .358 STA, .416 Rem, .416 Rigby and have taken them many places and accounted for many heads of game. The old .300 Winny is still my old stand-by (when I can get it out of my son's hands), it will still shoot one holers with 180 grain and 200 grain bullets at 3100 fps and 2950 fps respectfully. I know what it will do and will not do, therefore we have a complete understanding. good shooting.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Vapodog,
I suppose it amounts to how you interpet beats the socks off of it. I mean that my 300 H&H will drive a 220 gr. bullet at the same velocity as the 30-06 drives a 180 gr. bullet..

Actually it won't Ray....even at 54,000 CUP the 300 H&H will only make 2,700 with the 220s and at that pressure the .30-06 will drive 180s to 2,900 fps

Then again it's a moot point as both will easily kill anything less than DG on this planet.

I understand your point as there is very little difference in any of the big game calibers under good circumstances. but in the trenches and bad angles etc. we have to determine which ones have the "edge" I do this by picking a caliber that will shoot through the animal I am hunting lengthwise 90% of the time, one that will break the shoulder knuckle everytime..

Like you claim, the 30-06 is capable of killing any animal on earth and I agree with you, but there are a few calibers a bit better on the larger animals IMO...

Just for clarification Ray....beating the socks off is IMO more like comparing the .30-30 to the .30-06......now that's beating the socks off!

The problem I have with the .30 mags is the extra unnecessary weight and the fact that dead is dead.....there is no such thing as deader and IMO the lighter and easier to carry and shoot '06 is likely going to be easier to shoot and this results in a better chance of excellent placement.....

I love discussions like this over a campfire late at night with a bourbon (or two.....) and an elk hanging in a tree.

That said.....when I leave for elk hunting next month it's the .30-06 going along and (believe it or not) a .308 winchester going as backup.

My .300 H&H will be in the safe.

Snellstrom:

I'm with you. I am probably a heck of a lot older than you, too, and can say that I remember when there used to be a running argument between the gun editor, Warren Page, of Field & Stream and the gun editor, Jack O'Connor, of Outdoor LIfe about whether the 30-06 or the 270 Win. was better on brown bear and grizzly. (Page supported the '06) As an Easterner who never shot either bear but practically grew up with an '06 I have always trusted the '06 just out of pure instinct)

I have a 30-06 remington, and recently, I unfortuntly bought a Kimber Montana 300win mag that weights 5 lbs without the scope.
I am an idiot for not checking first, but why would a company make a rifle so light. Oh weight, its for tools like me who doesnt do much research before hand and buys what he likes in the store.
I am one of those guys who thought the bigger gun would make up for lack of experience.
My new plan for my big game hunts are to shoot my 30-06, and PRACTICE, PRACTICE and PRACTICE.
I dont have that much free time, but any "free" time will be on the range with my 30-06.
When I am on my Black Bear hunt with Jim Shockeys outfit next may, I want that gun to feel as natural on my shoulder as my arm. Much like my shotgun used to feel.
Sorry for rambling.
W.

Both cartridges kill game in approximately the same amount of time, however the 300 exhibits a great chance of felling power in general and over a greater distance. Any cartridge that strikes AT 2400+ fps will show a higher av. of felling power on small-med game.

quote:

Just for clarification Ray....beating the socks off is IMO more like comparing the .30-30 to the .30-06......now that's beating the socks off!

A better answer.

quote:

Originally posted by woodsie:
I unfortuntly bought a Kimber Montana 300win mag that weights 5 lbs without the scope.
I am an idiot for not checking first, but why would a company make a rifle so light. Oh weight, its for tools like me who doesnt do much research before hand and buys what he likes in the store.
W.

Bah that gun is totally worthless, and it'll recoil so bad you'll never learn or like to shoot it. I'll be a gentlemen and take it off your hands! It'll be a burden on me, but we help out fellow AR's lol I'll even pay for shipping Just joshing ya of course. If you like the gun, you can find ways to enjoy it. A REMOVABLE muzzle brake, maybe a PAST recoil shield or a Lead Sled for the range. You wont notice the recoil so much in the field when shooting at game, and the light weight is sure nice to carry.

quote:

Originally posted by MileHighShooter:

Gotta remember not everyone hunts a short distance from home, has multiple tags or months long seasons. Some of us get less then a handfull of days, very far from, with expensive tags and trip costs, and maybe guides and have ONE chance at ONE animal. I don't think anyone here agrees that magnums make up for poor shooting, but it can make up for less then stellar range estimation.

I like the flat trajectory, so I like my 30 mags with lighter tough bullets screaming fast.

Another thing I think gets lost often in this oftly repeated arguement, which was mentioned briefly at the start, is hunting differs in all areas of the country. What works in Mississipi might not work in Maine, and might not work in Wyoming

Agreed 100%! With a 365day season I pursue roe 20miles from home with a barely legal 243 passing all but the most perfect broadsides within 200yards.

4hours drive away on one of two weekends after red stag I'm considering 180gr partitions from my 30-06 and less than favourable shot presentations. Then I consider what rifle I want in my hands for precisely placing a shot on a red drifting across a forest track 150yards away and I take my marginal 243. No stags yet but 4 hinds none of which went further than 50yards.

Hipshot,
The 300 H&H built its reputation on 30-06 balistics, as you state in your post to me, is perhaps correct, I don't know that for a fact but have heard it before...

The actual facts are that today most folks handload and I can send a 200 gr. bullet at an easy 3000 FPS with my 300 H&H as it has a long neck and handles heavy bullets better than any other design and can actually duplicate the 300 Wby, RUM, or the WSMs but only with the heavy bullets of 200 and 220 grs., and not with the lighter bullets..

The 30-06 on the other hand will barely get 2700 FPS with a 200 gr. bullet and that is a really hot load..Bottom line is there is a difference.

I own and have shot the 30-06 for years and believe it to be probably the finest all around big game caliber ever, but the 300s are more powerfull and flatter shooting, what is so hard for some to understand about that!!.

Its hard to compare what a 300 H&H did on the front end of the last century vs. whats available to handloaders these days. For someone who doesn't reload, 300 H&H is a waste, but like so many potentially great rounds now, the magics in rollin yer own. With modern powders is has plenty of capacity to bring it right on par with more "modern" calibers (modern being relative to the 300 wby from the 40's and the 300 Win from the 50's lol to the H&H they're still whipper-snappers)

I do find it funny though, looking at reloading data, that the 300 only seems to really shine in a VERY crowded room with heavy bullets.

Ray, To answer your last question there, look at the post above you that has a qoute of mine in it, and read the last paragraph lol Some people will never need the mags, so they think no one else does either. Heck if I lived back east in some thick white tail woods, I'd probably own nothing but mild lever actions and be perfectly happy. Thank God I'm blessed to be a Rocky Mountain native, though my shoulder might not always agree

quote:

Originally posted by woodsie:
I have a 30-06 remington, and recently, I unfortuntly bought a Kimber Montana 300win mag that weights 5 lbs without the scope.

That is incorrect. A Kimber Montana 8400 in 300 WM weighs 6.75 lbs. Add a scope and your near eight pounds.

The Montana's have state of the art stocks with Decelerator recoil pads.

Perhaps you should load it down or sell it if you can't handle it but many of us shoot rifles with greater recoil.

woodsie,

If you don't handload you might try.

http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/centerfire/managed-Recoil.asp

I've used the .06 for the lions share of big game hunting for many years and it has never let me down. That said these days I have switched to the .300. But today I view the .300s duties differently then the ones I did for the .06. The .300 needs a longer barrel length to realize it's increase in velocity, so I use it exclusivly when glassing clear cuts where longer ranges will be encountered. It's also heavier. If I'm hunting the steep timber, I switch to a very light weight Kimber 84 chambered for the 7mm-08. I have not found a dimes worth of difference in the performance on game between the 7 and the 'ol .06. The 7-08 is easier to carry in rough country, so has replaced the .06 for this hunting, and the .300 is easier to hit with at long range, that I sold all my .06s a few years back. If I could only use ONE cartridge for everything, it would be the .06 however. BUT, this is America! At least until November.

THanks guys,
I think I am going to give it another shot this weekend.
Thanks,
W.

I see we have another "Tastes great, Less filling" argument going. Well when its all said and done a well loaded .30-06 is plenty, a 300 is just a little bit more of a good thing for 300 H+H 300WSM's just a tad more for 300 Winnies a bit more for the Weatherby, then it comes a real question mark for the Warbird and Big Remington and 30-378. You can go on and on on this till the sun burns out. You still have to shoot well enough to put the bullet were you want it to go. For most a .30-06 or 308 makes more sense than anything else. But I have to admit, a 300 Weatherby with good 200 gr. Nosler Partition hand loads dose a lot of things in the game fields well.

Vapodog,
I have not been able to get 2900 FPS our of my 30-06s with 180 gr. bullets..I have gotten 2800 FPS but brass didn't last long and I was actually a bit too hot IMO, so I shoot the 180 at 2700 FPS figureing the deer or elk won't know the difference..I can get 3000 FPS in my 300 H&H with a 200 gr. bullet and almost 3200 FPS with the 180..That IMO is a pretty substantial difference,at least on paper, in the field its probably less impressive but it gives you a tad flatter trajectory..

In the end it probably doesn't make much difference in my case anyway as I don't take shots over 300 yards with any caliber, so ones about as good as the other.