I just tried some of these in my Roberts and they shot awesome. I was just wondering if anyone has any experience with them on deer. Did they hold together very well? I'm not expecting really high weight retention, but I would like a little more than a Ballistic tip. Would they penetrate on a broadside shoulder shot on a whitetail? I have heard that the HP gamekings are a little tougher than the SP versions, but I haven't been able to verify it yet. I have them loaded to just over 2900fps.

Thanks in advance - Gib

The 120 grain BTHP GameKing at 2900 fps MV will do just fine on deer -- and in fact, you can pretty much count on an exit with any broadside presentation, including one or both shoulders. It is designed for medium game with the larger-capacity quarter-bores but will do just fine in your Roberts. By the way, your 2900 + fps load is definitely top-end in the Roberts.

[ 11-20-2003, 02:39: Message edited by: Bobby Tomek ]

Thanks Bobby. That's what I was hoping to hear. And yep, that load is right there at the max. - Gib

I called Sierra about that bullet in my 257 AI and they suggested that I might try something that will expand EAYSIER!! That bullet has an extra thick jacket and was designed for the 257 Weatherby. But I wouldnt hesitate to use it in your gun, I got the impression that he didnt have a real high opinion of the 257 Bob, probably never had one.
You might try doing an expansion test with some water jugs at 100 yds or so to see what they do.

That 120 grain HP bullet from Sierra is indeed a pretty tough bullet designed for game, not varmints.

I agree that it is indeed a tougher designed bullet than the Ballistic Tip. I have not used it on deer, but have shot several wild hogs with it using my 25-06. It has always performed very well, giving good penetration. In fact, I have yet to recover one, they have gone out the other side of a couple of hogs and went darned near lengthwise through another, though I did not recover the bullet.

This is really a tougher bullet than the Sierra 117 grain versions. The 117's work just great on deer, but I have not tried the 120 HP on a deer as of yet.

I shoot them at about 3150 fps in my 25-06.

R F

i shot a 8 pointer with one out of a 257 jdj saturday had a pretty good size intrance hole and never exited i found the half the jacket in the deer i didnt search to hard for the rest went in right behind the tight should. it was barrly after legal shooting time so it was pretty dark it is posible it hit some brush and started expation or deformation deer only went 20 yards the most. it was a 15'' barrel so it wasnt moving as fast as what it desind for but they shoot good out of this. jsaon

I had heard some of the same things regarding this bullet (tougher, etc). It is very accurate in my 257AI (mv = 3000fps), so I decided to try it on deer. Last week I shot a mature (164 lbs, dressed) buck at 110 yds. The bullet entered just behind the left shoulder, took out the heart and entered the off shoulder but did not exit. I found one very small piece of lead just under the skin. The was ZERO blood trail and I did not see the direction the deer ran. So it too a while in very thick brush to find him, although he traveled only 40 yards before filing up.

Admittedly, one data point is not conclusive, so I will probably try this bullet on a few more deer. But suffice it to say, I was somewhat disappointed in its performance. Jim

[ 11-21-2003, 09:31: Message edited by: olarmy ]

Thanks for all the help guys-

Let me ask this. I am getting 1/4" groups with the BTHP. I also have some 115gr Partitions sitting on the loading bench. If you could get the Partitions to shoot decently, which would you choose? Is the BTHP tough enough that stepping up to the Partition is not necessary, and I'd be better off sticking with the super accurate bullet instead? Decisions Decisions!!! Ahhh

My advice would depend, to some extent, on what kind of deer you are hunting. Since you are from Kansas, will you be afer those big Kansas trophy bucks? If so, I would work on the Partitions; and if I got a load that grouped pretty well, I'd use them. For smallish deer, say does and young bucks, I'd be comfortable with the Sierra. The reality is that the Sierra would probably work 99% of the time, but if that 1% is the biggest buck you've ever seen and he's at a bad angle....

Those HPBT's sure make pretty little groups, though, don't they. Let us know what you decide...Jim

[ 11-21-2003, 18:20: Message edited by: olarmy ]

Jim-

Thanks for all the advice. Sometimes ya just can't make up your mind and need all the input you can get!

I love my Roberts (and have a lot of confidence in it), so when time comes to go after the big bucks, that's probably what I'll take instead of something bigger. I guess I should try to build a good load for the Partitions for buck huntin', and I'll try out the Sierras during the late doe season. I just wish doe season came before general season, so that I could try 'em out before tackling a bruiser. I KNOW that I'll have confidence in the Partitions, so I guess that's my answer

But damn those sierras shoot nice!!!!

Thanks again, Gib

The why don't you just hunt with them, succesfully, like the rest of us.[/QB][/QUOTE]

Well...accuracy does NOT always equal terminal performance...

Partitions, 100-115 gr.

Gib,
I regularly hunt deer with Sierra 55gr..224 bullets without a failure, so why wouldn't a 120 work out of your Roberts? . Shot one yesterday and it was lights out, never took a step(425yds.)
I shoot 100gr. Sierra spitzers out of a .257 Ackley at deer and they have never failed yet(30+ years)
I have several boxes of 100-115gr.Nosler Partitions that i'll trade straight up for 100gr. Sierra spitzers, let me know?
Who cares about pass through penetration, If their lungs are in liquid form, they don't go far.
Sierras may not be the toughest bullet in the world but they are up the task as far as deer are concerned. I once killed a bull Elk with a 100gr.Sierra.
Stepchild

I've use them in my .257 Roberts, .257 Ackley, and a .257 Weatherby on mule deer and antelope. Ranges vary, but all of them made it to the far side of the animal, whether shot angling, straight on, or side on. Super accurate, but watch real close where the animal is, 'cause they don't fall down, their legs come up to meet their bodies, they fall so quick.

I guess one has to decide where his confidence lies. Is my confidence in super tiny groups or in a bullet that I know has an unarguable reputation for terminal performance and penetration when needed? I think that if I can get the Partitions to shoot, then I'll have more confidence in their ability to penetrate on a large and quartering buck. I will try out the Gamekings this doe season though. To those of you who like the GKs, understand that I am not slamming your bullet of choice. I'm just trying to make the best decision when dealing with two bullets that I have no experience with. My gut says Partitions on the big boys, and test the GKs when the pressure isn't so great. I'll let you guys know how everything goes, and hopefully I'll be able to post a pic of the BIG ONE

Thanks to all, and keep ideas coming!!!

Gib

Have shot several deer with 25-06 and 120 HPBT Sierra. The bullet usually mushrooms quite explosively inside and I have not had an exit yet. I usually found the jacket and remains of the bullet in the off side skin or ribs. Have not lost a deer however, and never more than one shot kills.

They are great bullets for deer.

KuduKing,
I agree, 100%. I started out(1960) using Hornadys on game and Sierras for varmint and target, but before long I switched over to Sierra for most everything. I have never lost an animal yet and all except one(Mule deer, gutshot at long yardage) were one shot kills.
Happy Holidays to everyone.
Stepchild

120 gr Hornady Hollow Point Interlock.most consisstant killing 25 caliber bullet I have ran across.

Hacksawtom, Kuduking, GLC,
You can lead a horse to water , but you can't make them drink! Gib figures that the Nosler Partition must be better, after all they cost more than twice the price, they have to be better.
And i'll try them on a doe and if they work, then maybe i'll try them on the "Big Boys".
Lack of confidence is what Fathered the Magnum craze. Just shoot them anywhere and they'll drop, yeah right.
Stepchild

Stepchild-

In previous conversations I felt that you were a decent fella. But now you have proven me wrong. Never did I say that I was going to shoot them anywhere and expect them to drop. I am a very qualified shooter and have far too much respect for animals to just let lead fly. My choice is based on a lot of thought, and I am perfectly willing to try "your" bullet too. Where do you get off making me out to be just another moron slob hunter simply because I decided to try a Partition rather that a Gameking. Out of courtesy you might want to rethink your post and not take personal shots at another man's character. And for you to make the comparison to the 'magnum craze' is ludicrous. I'm hunting with a Roberts for gosh sakes!!! Why divide ourselves over such a petty issue as bullet choice? Yes, confidence is what it's all about, and where I hunt, I could use a blood trail, and there have been quite a few posts regarding lack of an exit wound with the Gameking. My choice is mine, and yours is yours. Let it be.

To the rest of you, Gameking proponents included, I sincerely thank you for your input. Mudslinging by others just doesn't belong here.

Gib

Gib,
My statement about the Magnum craze wasn't directed at you, it was a general statement formed from years of observation.
And I wasn't questioning your character just your failure to take advice from some people that have been there,done that!
And you don't need a blood trail if they drop where they are standing.
Why don't you send me your address and i'll send you all the Nosler Partitions that I have here(FREE) and i'll pay the shipping. That's what I think of NP's
Stepchild

Stepchild2-

I appreciate your response. I realize and understand that the advice given by all is honest and sound. I will more than likely have opportunities to try both bullets this season, and I will be taking full advantage of the chance. The fact of the matter is that any bullet that wrecks the boiler room of a big game animal will without a doubt do the trick. Advice and experience of others is always a great starting point, but personal experience is important to me too. I'll try both and let you know what I think about them. I am by no means stating that one bullet is better than the other, especially without having put either to the test. I was really just trying to choose which one to try out first . Thanks for further explaining your post.

Thanks again to all, and no hard feelings Stepchild.

Regards - Gib

Gib

olarmy,
I guess I don't know what to say, I personally have never had that problem. Maybe the bullet hit some of the THICK brush before it got to the deer?
I also shoot .257 Ackleys(2) and I use 100gr.Sierra Spitzers and have never had a deer take a step with a well placed shot or one not so well placed.Two years ago I gutshot a running deer(225yds) and at impact the hind legs folded followed by the front end, one motion, stone DEAD.
I know this isn't supposed to happen, but it did, witnessed by two other people.
I have used a 22/250 Ackley for the last 2 seasons and you wouldn't believe the performance out of this rifle(55gr.Sierra Spitzers). Last friday I tipped one over at a measured 425yds. and it went from vertical to horizontal right now.
By now you probably think i'm full of sh**, but it's all true!
Stepchild

Used both the 115 NP's and the 120 Sierras in a 26" .25-06 I had several years ago. What a deer/antelope buster! Unsure of the velocity but surely as much or more than your Bob is producing.

Never had a problem with either bullet.

Not trying to start a pissin' match but I think your trying to overthink this. Hit a deer in the boiler room with basically any ctg/bullet thats appropriate for deer and they DIE. I have killed lots of them and have never found any deer to be tough. Most drop on the spot.

Worrying about retained weight, super acuracy,etc isn't worth the time and sweat. Use a decent bullet , hit them right, PLACEMENT is everything, and they die. Enjoy life, quit worrying.

Only took me 53 years to adopt this attitude, thought I still fall off the wagon from time to time myself. Last really bad case of "overthinking" was a major one; my first Africa trip. That one nearly killed me.

FN in MT

Frank-

Glad to hear that you had good experiences with both bullets. I'm really not trying to overthink the whole deal, I promise! I enjoy messing with different bullets and loads, and there are so many options out there that it can be tough trying to decide which to try next .Thanks for the input.

-Gib

I generally agree with stepchild et al. on the "why use parititions for deer etc." and the boneheadedness of the magnum mantra. However, I lose confidence when hunting with too light or too small a diameter bullet. I've been in circumstances (others in my hunting party) where a first shot with a 22 caliber centerfire fragmented in some way shape or form (usually on very petite brush) before impacting the animal, requiring a few low quality follow-up shots as it fled. This has led to a number of long and drawn out tracking sessions over the years.

I certainly don't think one needs a particularly powerful round to noodle deer at normal ranges, but, as always, shot placement and the circumstances surrounding a shot are the critical variables, which, IMHO, become more critical, all else held constant, as the caliber approaches 22 and the bullets lighten in weight and construction. However, I think the magnum-craze has taken this otherwise sensible insight too far: too much gun just erodes shootability and courts a perception of invincibility, all else held constant, which culminates in ill-advised or lesser-advised shots being taken. The premium bullet craze compounds these effects. Ever noticed how there are just as many (or more) 4x4s in the ditch during a snowstorm as 2x4s - same idea.

For hunting deer-size game at close to medium ranges (out to 250 yds or so), I have settled on the 250-3000 with a pointed 120gr standard bullet such as the Speer or Hornady at an honest 2700s fps. IMHO, this is the ideal combo of frontal area, sectional density, bullet contruction, velocity, ballisitic performance (exterior and terminal), recoil, and muzzle blast. It penetrates at longer ranges and at odd angles, and won't break up if some light brush gets in the way. Newton was a genius.

9.3x62,
To take the Magnum Mania a step further, I invited a friend to hunt deer and antelope with us in Wyoming. This guy owned a 300 Weatherby(Winslow) and for 6 months all I heard from him was how under gunned I was with my 30/06, He quoted MV, Drop tables,etc. He was going to make a neck shot at 400yds. Well he ran out of ammo and still hadn't killed anything, he wound up filling with my '06 He was pretty quiet after that. This is not being posted to piss off the Weatherby owners here.
I agree with you about small bullets and brush, where I hunt it's open, hay fields.
The 250/3000 is an excellent choice.
Stepchild

stepchild: the 100gr Sierra's in your 257 AI's...were they flat based or boat tails? Did you always get sufficient penetration, even on quartering shots. I'm just trying to get a handle on this topic. A lot of people swear by fast expanding bullets, an others hate them. Some says they have never had a problem with Ballistic Tips and Gamekings, others say they consistently lack penetration. I like Sierra's. They are usually very accurate, and I have taken lots of deer with them. It's just that when they don't fully penetrate on a broadside shot, I worry that if I get only a quartering shot on a big,career buck, the Sierra may not make it to the boiler room.

9.3: I like your choice of 120s in your 250. I shoot a 257 AI, usually with 120 Speer's at about 3100. Never had a problem, but never had to test them much (Quartering shot) either. Do you have an opinion on the 120 Hot Core versus the 120 Hornady HP?

Yeah, I'm probabaly over-analyzing this topic, but what-the-heck, it's fun. Regards, Jim

olarmy:

I have messed around with 117 Sierras (BT and flat base), Speer 120s (BT and flat base), as well as Hornady 120. I have found the Hornady 120 to be the toughest, with the Speer flat base as a close second; both are tougher (in my experience) than the Sierras. Accuracy has been quite good with all of these bullets. H414 and 4320 are my favorite powders.

Since the lighest bullet I ever shoot out of my 250-3000 is a 115, I am toying with the idea of having the throat bored out a bit more. I have mag length to spare of course. I have a 257 roberts I just had put together this spring with a pac-nor barrel. It shoots quite well, but I think I am going to sell it - I always take my 250-3000 when it comes time to grab a deer rifle. I've also got a lightweight 7mm BR rifle on a 700 SA - that too is a sweet little deer rifle out to 250 yds or so with the Speer 130. Stunningly accurate...

olarmy,
I use flat base 100gr spitzers. I guess they call them Pro-Hunters now. I try to take a broadside shot but that doesn't always happen. One year I had been to Wyoming and after I got back home I was invited to go deer hunting. I shot a big doe and hit it in the hind quarters and was holding for a lung shot. At the shot the deer dropped right there and I was very surprised to see where the bullet had struck, it had to hit the femoral artery because the heart was as soft as a wet sponge. The guy I was hunting with was carrying a 300 Win Mag and was awed by the performance of this small bullet. He must have been impressed because he went out and bought a 25/06 that same week. The wound channel went through both quarters about the size of a baseball. Although the rifle had been carried in a hard case it was shooting 12" left at 100yds,and the deer was around 300. I took quite a razzing about bullet placement until we shot it the next morning.
I have killed deer from 100yds to 500yds and they have worked flawlessly.
I loaned my 722/.257AI to a friend one time and told him to be sure that he didn't shoot through brush with it, well here came an 8pt. down the runway and he panicked and shot through a thick bush, sort of like a lilac bush. He got the deer but it ran about 50yds. Instead of the usual 1/4" entrance hole it was the size of a nickle,lucky he got that one I guess.
If I was going Trophy Elk hunting then I would be shooting Bear Claws or something similar, but for deer i'm already shooting "Premium Bullets"
Try some Norma MRP in your Ackley, you'll be pleasantly surprised at the velocity increase.
Stepchild

Here's a little info direct from Sierra about the HPBT's.

http://www.sierrabullets.com/xring/index.cfm?fuseaction=Vol7no4#tough

I use them all!! Hornady, Sierria, NBT,NP, Speer ect. It doesn't matter if I'm using a 243 or a 416 Taylor if the bullet goes in the right place the animal dies. I shot a buck yesterday with a 7X57AI using 150gr NBT. It was a nck shot and he piled up faster then I could see through the scope. The exit hole was something to see!! I really don't think you need a premium bullet like the NP on deer but I have used them and they are the only bullet I use out of the 243. My 257 Weatherby loves the 120's, but the 257AI likes the NBT in 115 and the Sierria in 117.

Stepchild you have mail regarding the NP's

Success again with the Sierra .257 120 grain HPBT

8:18 this morning, one shot on a nice size PA Doe with the Sierra .257 120 grain HPBT. Slight quarting shot, at 85 paces. The deer was walking right to left, hit it just behind its left shoulder and the bullet exited the right side. It broke the deer's right side leg just below the shoulder. The deer jumped on the hit, ran about 30 yards and crashed into a tree. Upon dressing, I found that the heart was exploded and significant damage done to its lungs. The blood trail (spray) was enough for a blind man to see.

I pick up the meat from the butcher tommorow afternoon. Looks like deer steaks are on the menu.

Rifle was a Remington 700 in 25-06 using H4831SC powder, Remington cases, and Federal Match primers.

[ 12-02-2003, 03:24: Message edited by: GLC ]

Rich- I can't agree more. I have a little of everything on my loading bench, and I have faith that any bullet on there would do the trick when applied to the right parts of Mr. Deer. In fact, I'm gonna do my darndest to try as many of them out this season as possible. The main point of this post was to simply decide which to use first! I just couldn't decide

GLC- Congrats! Always glad to hear a success story. I'll be sure to try out the BTHPs this season too. How fast were you pushing the 120s?

The hardest shot this bullet is going to take is likely going to be point of shoulder on a big buck facing 3/4 on or just behind the ribs on a big buck facing 3/4 away. I think this would be the limit of 'conventional' shot angles?

Unless the bullet is fragile, I would have thought it was capable of dealing with such a situation.