Does the 7x57 really have a real world balistic advantage over the 7-08 with heavy bullets. I have never owned a 7x57 but have often heard that do to the longer neck the bullet doesn't rob powder space like the 7-08 but from what I see in my reloading manuals that all tone the 7x57 down to around 45,000CUP that if you were to have a modern 7x57 that could safely be loaded up to the same pressure as the 7-08 it still wouldn't provide any real advantage with heavy bullets. Maybe I'm wrong and kinda hope I am so instead of getting another 7-08 that I already have dies for I will have a reason to get the 7x57.
There is no real world difference between the two in performance with any bullet weight with all else being equal. Even so if I had to make a choice I would go for a 7x57 just because it came first and has class! Regards, Bill.
Bill is right. You will never see the difference in the field. The 7mm08 is a true short action cartridge though, something which cannot be said for the 7X57 so it may come down to what rifle action you prefer. If you are a accuracy nut go with the 7mm08, brass and ammo are easier to come by. If mausers and classic bolt guns turn your crank by all means go with the 7x57 it has proven itself on alot of game fields. sure-shot
With handloads the 7x57 will shoot circles around the 7-08...With factory loads the 7-08 wins....A long throated 7x57 will equal a 280 Remington for all practical purposes with heavy doses of H414...I have chronographed them all...C'mon Bill you know the larger the case the bigger the dog
Hey Ray, How big of circle will that 7X57 shoot around a 7mm08? Give that 7mm08 a diet of H414 and I bet it will keep up. I don't care for H414 as I shoot in cold weather sometimes and H414 starts to burp when the frost hits the punkin! sure-shot
The 7MM-08 Is unto the 7X57 as the 308 is unto the 30-06. For all practical hunting use all four are equal in thier performance on game. One is a short action case and the other a long action case. They all four shine when used to harvest deer size game at reasonable hunting ranges. The only difference is in the mind of the shooter. Since I own all four, I find in the deer hunting venue it makes no difference in performance the rifle I take to the field. When the shooting is over all four rounds bring home the venison. The 140 gr. bullet in the 7MM-08 and 7X57. The 150 gr. bullet in the 308 and 30-06. If I were asked to give one cartridge an advantage it would be the 30-06 when shooting past 250. My longest kill on game is at a measured 368 yards with 30-06 using the 150 gr. bullet. All four rifles shoot nothing but my handloads.
quote:Originally posted by Reloader66: The 7MM-08 Is unto the 7X57 as the 308 is unto the 30-06. For all practical hunting use all four are equal in thier performance on game. One is a short action case and the other a long action case. They all four shine when used to harvest deer size game at reasonable hunting ranges.
I agree with the gist of your statement above, though I would say the 7mm-08 is to the .280 Rem. what the .308 Win. is to the .30-06.
RSY
Posts: 785 | Location: Central Texas | Registered: 01 October 2001
I currently own a 7-08 which is the most accurate rifle I've ever owned, and I love it. My grandson took his second whitetail with it last year. After shooting several of my rifles off the bench, he insisted in taking this 11 pounder in the field. I guess it was the 1/2 groups at 200 yds. that convinced him. I've also owned a couple of 7x57; I loved both of them as well.
I think it boils down to the choice of action as already suggested, if you want a short action go 7mm08 a 98 or other action 7x57, I have had both also, presently just the 7x57 on a 1942 Obendorf, As Ray said you have to use handloads to make the 7x57 live up to its potential.
More succinctly, the 7-08 is to the 7x57 what the .243 is to the 6mm Remington.
In the same length short actions, and loaded to similar pressures, there will be about a 100 fps advantage to the larger case -- little practical difference. However, placed in a standard length action and using a long-for-caliber bullet, the 7x57 would have a larger velocity advantage.
If a shooter is confined to factory loads (a pity, of course), then the 7-08 is loaded much closer to potential.
Posts: 13239 | Location: Henly, TX, USA | Registered: 04 April 2001
However, I'd take the 7 X 57, if I was to have a rifle built for one of these two cartridges. I have had nothing by grand results reloading the 7 X 57. I always end up with excellent accuracy and velocity.
I'm not knocking the 7-08, I have just always had my 7 X 57s end up a little tighter and a little faster.
Own two 7x57s and one 7mm-08.Personaly,I like the 7x57 better.It's just more classy.In my little Ruger #1 7x57,action length is of no concern.
I think the real advantage of the 7x57 is to be able to push 160s and 175s reasonably fast enough for elk sized game.Of course that advantage doesn't mean much,since most of us who have 7x57s also have rifles in better elk cartridges.
------------------ I'm out to wrong rights,depress the opressed,and generaly make an ass of myself!
Gerard...in the same length action that the 7x57 and the Tombi (what does it mean?) I would be forced to say .280 Ackley Improved but we "are" getting off the subject.
By the way, I made one of my longest shots ever (over 450 yards) using a stock 7x57 on a mule deer in Montana but it has been surpassed by other, more up-to-date rounds.
Posts: 4360 | Location: Sunny Southern California | Registered: 22 May 2002
Don't own either, but based on what I've observed with a .243 and a 6mm, and a 6.5-.257 and a .260 there ain't enough difference between 'em to warrant buying the other if you own one. If you want better performance out of the x57 case you have to use higher pressures than you do in the .308 case.
Ken Waters maintains it takes him 2 grains MORE powder in his several 7x57's to equal the velocities from his 7-08's. He believes this points to the 7-08's "efficiency." I think, nice round though it is, the 7x57 is caught in no man's land... it's not a modern SA or LA. I've owned both... I'd rather have the 7-08, or if I wanted a LA I'd get a 280. In a Mauser 98, though, it's a classic.
Although, they are both great cartridges, I have to go with Ray on this one. I would choose neither for a serious benchrest gun (I wish we could shoot the 7 X 57 in service matches), but I have both and do bust a lot of paper with them. Never really worried much about how fast they go, I am only concerned with accuracy. Most of the time the fastest load possible with any given cartridge and projectile is not the most accurate. Reality is, if it is still supersconic @ 1,000 yds, there was proper care and consistancy in handloading, and you can dope the wind, either will hit.
Posts: 614 | Location: Miami, Florida USA | Registered: 02 March 2001
Funny no-one but me seems to have had accuracy problems with anything but LONG bullets in the 2 7X57's I had. No-one mentions the overly sloppy chamber neck dia. Maybe not all 7X57 chambers are this way, although spec's show this to be standard. Anyway I'd take the 7-08 anyday thanks.
If I was going to focus on bullets under 140 grains the 708 would be fine, the 160 is the weight of my choosing so I have a 7x57. What is this whining about short actions? Who cares get a mauser! Sloppy chamber dimensions? Who lied this up? 7x57 brass has thicker neck walls so the tolerances are the same. It does seem to take a little more load testing to get that just right load but that is fun isn't it?
I have a question regarding this topic. My Honady reloading manual show the 7mm-08 maxing out at 2900fps with 139 grain bullets. The same manual shows the 7x57 maxing out at 2700fps for the same 139 grain bullets! I don't understand this as the 7x57 case holds more powder. Shouldn't 7x57 be faster with all else being equal? Please help me understand this. TIA.
I have both 7x57 7-08 and 7-08AI improved.They are all good and the 7x57 does have a edge on the 7-08 but not on the 7-08AI I must say the 7-08 and 7-08AI are more accurate then 7x57, at least my gun and my friends custom 7x57. The 7-08 AI fires faster and more accurate in shorter barrels than the 7x57. I get 3000fps with 20 inch pipe 140grn bullets. shoots in the .400s all day long.
My first 7-08 was back when it was still a wildcat. The first group fired thru the gun grouped 7/8th inch for 10 rounds. Which is about as good as I can shoot. Needless to say, that made it an automatic favorite. Presently, I own 3 of them. Why? I don't know. Maybe you just can't get enough of a good thing. The value of a hunting rifle is tested afield. And to that end, over the years I have taken a myriad of different calibres on western hunts. From .243's to .338's. If I were leaving tomorrow for a western hunt that did not include elk nor the great bears, I would take a 7-08. With a proper bullet and a prudent hunter, I am sure a elk could be handily harvested with a 7-08 but I have other guns more ideally suited for that. I have never owned a 7x57 but have talked to several men that owned them that had nothing to sell nor any axes to grind. From talking to them I would believe that whatever I have said about the 7-08 would apply to the 7x57. Nothing more nor nothing less.
Posts: 2037 | Location: frametown west virginia usa | Registered: 14 October 2001
I think this post was meant for those who own both the 7x57mm and the 7/08. I don't, so I can't say one is better than the other and would not attempt to do so. I do own just the 7x57mm and have owned three rifles in this caliber, two of them Ruger 77s and currently a CZ550 American. I also, at one time owned a bolt action .30/30 and three .284 Winchester, one in Model 88, one custom job and one in Ruger Model 77. Now, it's just the CZ and me, and a little Howa Lightning in .223. As far as my choice for the 7x57mm Mauser, I got interested in the cartridge because of Jack O'Connor's writings. I reload for it and push my reloads. My current baby is 48.2 grains of H414 on top of a Hornady 162 grain bullet chronographed at 2,820 in the CZ (it has a 23.5 inch barrel). This load gives what I consider exceptional accuracy (around .68 inch five-shot groups) for a hunting rifle. With this load (I used the same in my Ruger Mark II that I traded off for the CZ) I have hunted elk, mule deer, whitetail deer, javalina, wild boar. I will use it for Oryx if I am lucky enough to draw on that here in New Mexico. I heard that the 7/08 is more accurate than the 7x57 and that may be true. The reason I like that 7 of mine is because it is simply a class act. That little cartridge has been bumping heads with other rounds since 1892 and it is still in the middle of the fight. The folks who use it hold it in very high esteem, and that includes me. I don't ever plan on hunting Africa because newspaper reporters just are not paid enough to even dream about saving up for one of those hunts, but if I ever did go, the little 7 would go with me for plains game. It works well here in North America for anything I'd plan to tackle. I am certain those who use and respect the 7/08 would say the same thing. In the end, there is not any right answer to which one is the best because beauty, after all, is in the eyes of the beholder. Tom Purdom
Horsefeathers! Some of you guys need a chronograph or need to use it...When you stuff a 175 Gr. Spitzer into a 7-08 your SOL...no room for powder. My 7x57 with a long throat that seats that bullet 3/4 way down the neck will crank 2700 with a warm load and more with a hot load...
Thats not speculation, but tested chrongraphed loads in both...As the bullets get lighter then the difference becomes less and there is little difference...but from 160 I'll go with the 7x57....
uuhh, Ray, it seems to be a consensus that the 7x57 case holds approx two more grains of powder than a 7-08. That doesn't really extrapolate to a whole lot of advantage. Now then, lets compare oranges to oranges, lets get a long throated 7-08 and see how it stacks up.......... I have fired 175's thru my rifle but I wasn't "comparing" it to anything and didn't chrony it as I was looking for groups only. Right now we are up to our ***es in snow so it will be a while before I can chrony a big bullet load.
Posts: 2037 | Location: frametown west virginia usa | Registered: 14 October 2001
Ray is right with the heavier bullets, the 7x57 will fire the 175grn a bit faster than the 7-08. But my 7-08AI is throated long enough to shoot the 175grn and it is right on the heals of the 7x57. And if my barrel was the same length as the 7x57 I believe it would be dead even. Even with that the 7-08 AI will be shooting at greater pressures. I believe the 7-08 should use 130 to 140grn bullets for optimum velocity. The 7x57 is better suited than the 7-08 with the heavier bullets. And if we want to get technical we can go 7x57 AI and really stir things up. Hey, the 7x57 is why I got into 7mm. Look at what that round killed in Africa, I believed it killed all species.All said and done they are both great caliber�s.
[This message has been edited by Frank (edited 01-21-2002).]
2grs capacity increase,for the "pleasure" of toting a long action?
I've slapped too many critters into the dirt with a 7-08 and 120/140gr X's. If that combo isn't the answer,you'd best graduate unto another entirely seperate class of cartridge.
The 7mmMauser,however romantic,isn't in another class. If you opt to shoot conventional 175's in either,that is YOUR fault...................
Give that 7mm08 a diet of H414 and I bet it will keep up. I don't care for H414 as I shoot in cold weather sometimes and H414 starts to burp when the frost hits the punkin! 
