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We've all heard the statement; "at what point did the bullet fail if the animal died". So, if you've had a "bullet failure", describe what happened & why you see it as a failure. My own exp. was when a friend of mine shot a nice 5pt bull elk @ a bit over 100yds w/ his .30-06 & factory 180gr WWST (old style). The bull went down, thrashed around for about 2min. & finally expired. When we gutted him I found no exit wound & only pieces of the bullet. Only one rib was hit going in & both lungs were mangled. Yes the bull died, no tracking was involved (went less than 20yds) but there was no way that bullet was going through any serious muscle &/or bone. Total fragmentation from 06 vel. on a perfect broadside double lung shot. To me the bullet "failed". Give us one of your experiences. LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | ||
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That sounds like a BT. I had a Barnes TSX go straight through an antelope last fall. Perfect broadside shot.The exit hole was the same size as the entrance. The goat ran 150 yds and fell over. Failure??? I think it was more my failure. I did not match the bullet to the game. It was from a 300winm | |||
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This oughta be interesting! Mine were both Sierra ProHunter 130 gr .270 bullets at 3000 fps...one at 30 yards--a frontal shot on a small forkhorned muley...and the other at 210 yards--a broadside lung shot just behind the shoulder on a 5x6 muley that weighed about 250 lbs. Neither exited and both blew up. Neither hit bone. Both animals died rather quickly but I was glad no bones were hit or I believe I would have had a lot of tracking to do! Good hunting, Andy ----------------------------- Thomas Jefferson: “To compel a man to furnish funds for the propagation of ideas he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” | |||
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I've never had a bullet fail. Ever. I've never shot an animal with any rifle and had to "track" it. If I want to follow a blood trail, I will bowhunt. I think I've had one bullet not pass all the way through, a 150 Speer from my 270. 130 yard shot. But he fell right there. Nope, never a failure. Oh, here's that Missouri deer:  Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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bullet weight? I think an accubond would have served you better from the 300, but that is my humble opinion. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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First, let me second Fred's point that a quickly expired animal does not (at least for myself) constitute a "failure;" The bullet might not have worked in the expected fashion, but a bullet's work is nasty and brutish, and it takes a whole lot of bone/heavy muscle to prevent a properly placed bullet from getting to the vitals. Then again, maybe it doesn't, which brings me to my one and only experience with what I might call "failure." In 1991 I was hunting the Wisconsin deer season. By that time they had 3 feet of snow on the ground (and half as much in the trees) and I was still-hunting with snow shoes. At one point I noticed a small deer to my right behind some thick brush and spruce trees. I sat down in the snow and waited 10 or 15 minutes for the deer to present a clear shot. When I pulled the trigger on the .308, the deer was only about 40 yards away and ran, quartering, toward me. It collapsed in the snow having run about 20 yards, and I quickly shot it in the head. When I dressed the deer, I found the chest cavity was largely intact. As best I can determine, the bullet struck the shoulder blade, basically blowing off the entire limb. The bullet then traveled just under the skin toward the belly, where it came to rest right in front of the tits. While I don't remember the manufacturer, it was standard .308 factory ammo. Since then I try to avoid the shoulder blade if possible.  friar Our liberties we prize, and our rights we will maintain. | |||
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I would define bullet failure as a bullet that fails to accomplish its primary goal : kill as quickly as possible with no tracking work. Other considerations look academic. As an exemple, I'm presently having the barrels of my 9,3x74R O/U regulated for the softer Norma 286 gn Alaska. My rifle was regulated for the Blaser CDP (partitioned premium) bullet which both bbls. shoot in 1 hole. While penetration is impressive (shooting through a Wild Boar lengthwise), expansion is too discreet and on running shots (drive hunting) the boars keep running for a distance, while the softer Alaska generally "rolls" them on the spot. André DRSS --------- 3 shots do not make a group, they show a point of aim or impact. 5 shots are a group. | |||
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Bullet failure to me is a bullet that fails to penetrate to the vitals or disintegrates on contact with bone do to poor bullet design leading to a less than a leathal hit. It is hard for me (Anyway)to say a bullet failed if it kilt the animal I was after.  Jayco | |||
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Yes, bullet failures! Thats when the dang things fail to hit the critters, right? Yea, Ive had my share of um. | |||
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When developing loads for the .22 PPC and using some older Hornady 50 grain SX bullets we found that the threshold velocity before auto destruct was about 3550 ft/secs. The bullets came apart in a puff of grayish smoke about 30 yards out from the muzzle. Should a target have bee found suitable for shooting within that range I guess it would have been intersting to see the outcome. I have also seen where using even the relatively dimunative .308 with 150 grain Nosler BT's that a failure to penetrate the chest of a whitetail buck at 35 yards, quartering on angle. The broken shoulder and some tracking finished the job.  Member NRA, SCI- Life #358 28+ years now! DRSS, double owner-shooter since 1983, O/U .30-06 Browning Continental set. | |||
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My take on this whole bullet failure thing is that it falls into these catagories: 1.)One time anectdotal evidence. ".... deer ran 200yds with no blood trail." That's like me telling someone "the last ---truck I owned I had to replace the starter at 50k." Therefore I'll never buy that manufactures product. How can anyone damn a bullet for one failure. 2.)"Urban legend" syndrome. I think Balistic Tips and Barnes TXs fall undr this. If one likes them they are perfect If one hates them they are awful. 3.)Shooter failure to choose. I think most bullet failure is actualy shooter failure to match the bullet to the job. All bullets are a compronise, but a 140tx out of a Sweed for 300yd antelope or a 140BT out of a STW for 100yd whitetails is shooter failure not bullet failure. 4.)Shooter failure. I don't know how anyone can blame a bullet for failure if the deer is never found or found three days later! capt david   "It's not how hard you hit 'em, it's where you hit 'em." The 30-06 will, with the right bullet, successfully take any game animal in North America up to 300yds. Get closer! | |||
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No wstrn, that would be shooter failure. cap, you have a point, too many hunters/shooters just take their favorite bang stick into the woods & use the bullet that's "the most accurate" w/o any thought of the animal or conditions they are hunting. Yes, my son's 06 is very accurate w/ 150grSMK but I wouldn't use them for woods hunting (actually wouldn't use them at all for hunting). Funny though, a 250gr .338NP kills small deer & big elk w/ equal results.  LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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Doc, The TSX was mt elk loads. I should not have used them but you know. I have changed over to Accubonds and will use them on everything, except PD's!! | |||
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Nice deer Doc! I have a system: I pretend to work and they pretend to pay me! | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Doc: I've never shot an animal with any rifle and had to "track" it. Doc, in past posts, you stated that you have killed 100+ deer yet you wrote that you’ve never had to track an animal after shooting it with a rifle. That is hard for me to believe unless you interpret tracking in a different matter than I do. Would you please describe what “track it†means? Perhaps you live out in the open where you can see objects a long ways off? As for me, tracking after the shot means following the trail of an unseen deer after being hit with a bullet. It may mean following any indicators such as blood, individual hoof marks, broken twigs, turned leaves, etc. I’m sure that you know that a well placed shot will not always drop a deer. A deer with its heart blown can run long distances in a short time frame before it expires. For example, I shot a doe a couple years ago and the doe piled up approximately 200 yards with her damaged heart and insides hanging out of her side. Out of the many deer I’ve shot with a rifle, I can tell you that a lot of them ran upon bullet impact in the vital zones. Some act as if they were hit with the hammer of Thor yet managed to propel their feet to short or great distances even with fatal wounds in their “boiler room.†The spinal/neck shot is one way to drop them instantly but I’ve been surprised when they have partial control of their legs and the chase is on (which gives me a disappointing and exciting feeling at the same time – human nature at its finest). I’ve also been surprised with brain shots as well. I live in South Carolina, in the Lowcountry, where there is a vast array of habitat types. In thick vegetation, I’ve had to track deer that lay dead only a few yards away from its point of origin (I’m hearing impaired so can’t hear them run or fall). So, perhaps tracking is looked at in a different light by me since I’m hearing impaired whereas most hunters can hear the quarry fall. It just baffles me that you mention harvesting a great number of deer and never had to track one, even in your past hunting days when you were a novice or used to shoot the deer in the boiler room rather than the neck? I assume you’ve never made a bad shot even it was not your intent to make one (such as the bullet deflecting off of a twig or unexpected wind)? I'm curious in your reply. | |||
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I have several definitions of bullet failure 1. When the lead is separated from the jacket causing lack of penetration. 2. when the bullet fails to open up (mushroom) and it was supposed to do so. Example.....a 300 Grain .375 solid is not going to open up on a deer!!! A 130 grain .270 bullet is supposed to. 3. When a bullet fails to perform as advertized in a reasonable manner. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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Vapodog I like to get a good mushroom from a bullet but sometimes they explode and cause instant failure if they do ,And they were not supposed to.Animal is still stone dead! I think most bullet failures are with calibers that were not intended for the game that was shot with it.I.M.O. If it cant be Grown it has to be Mined! Devoted member of Newmont mining company Underground Mine rescue team. Carlin East,Deep Star ,Leeville,Deep Post ,Chukar and now Exodus Where next? Pete Bajo to train newbies on long hole stoping and proper blasting techniques. Back to Exodus mine again learning teaching and operating autonomous loaders in the underground. Bringing everyday life to most individuals 8' at a time! | |||
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I know that there is such a thing as "bullet failure", no question on that point. In my experience, the most common cause of so called "bullet failure" appears to be a mismatch of caliber to game, bullet to game, bullet to velocity, ballistic reality to ranges game will be shot at. The times I have seen a true "bullet failre" are not many, but a failure to take game due to the other factors is common, I have seen them many times in other hunters. Can a bullet "fail", yes, but most of the time it is the hunter that failed, by making a bad choice in the other choices. I have had a bullet glance off a bone, angle shot, and not kill the animal, was that my fault or the bullets fault? It is my inclination to say it was my fault, should have been pickier on the shot. Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. Followed by: Murphy is alive and well, and watching you! Sacred cows make the best burgers. Good Shooting! | |||
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8mm or More, You are right, bullet failure is often offered up as an excuse for shooter/hunter failure. I've seen 22 cal & 243 cal. bullets fail on antelope because they were varmint bullets designed to vaporise gophers! I've seen bullets that are pure death on whitetail from any angle "fail" when well placed on an elk's shoulder, but shread the lungs on the same elk when the next shot went through the ribs. I always try to have my ammo, I handload only, match the biggest, baddest thing I might have to shoot where I hunting. If it works on elk and bear it will work on deer, but not necessarily the other way round. Are the ammo and/or bullet manufacturers to blame? I think not, unless; they advertise their product is capable of doing something it can not do, in which case they are to blame. Do they do that? Well, I'll never use Remington Core-locs again no matter what they say.... | |||
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This says it all as far as I'am concerned. Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war; That this foul deed shall smell above the earth With carrion men, groaning for burial. | |||
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Bullet selection used to be pretty simple, round nose or spire pt. In the last twenty years, OK actually more, real choices have become available to the hunter. You still have to make a good choice, or you may experience "bullet failure", and you still have to put it in the right spot. I wouldn't go back to the two choice days, though! Sacred cows make the best burgers. Good Shooting! | |||
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My definition of tracking is the same as yours. Whether you believe it or not is up to you. I have no reason to embelish or lie about my experience. And I can't see any benefit for me because of what I've seen. I've always seen my game fall when shot with a rifle. I've never even looked for any blood trail. I began hunting in north Alabama with terrain much like yours in SC. I've also hunted SC. When I say, "I've never had to track a deer" I mean exactly what I said. The exception is my bowkills. In my early days of hunting, I never took a shot I wasn't comfortable with. Maybe that explains some of my experience. What is so hard for me to believe is why so many animals do run when they are hit with a bullet, even a properly placed bullet. How do you think I must have felt when I saw a good friend shoot a deer and we watch it run onto another property and I tell him, "hey, wonder why he didn't just fall?" Quite frankly if I did every pop a deer and it ran more than 15-20 yards, I'm sure my jaw would hit the ground. It has just never happened to me. I have no explanation. Feel free to chalk it up as unbelievable. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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I have a bit less problem believing you never had to track a deer than you only had one bullet pass thru completely. I have tracked a few deer for myself and others but by far most of my bullets have exited. Leftists are intellectually vacant, but there is no greater pleasure than tormenting the irrational. | |||
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You can probably chalk it up to the size and type of game you're hunting. Jack Rabbit size whitetail aren't that hard to kill.  Chuck | |||
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Never said I only had one bullet pass through. What I said was ALL have passed through but one. Chuck, what you said is true, oh so true. My average buck in Alabanana was only about 120 pounds. Heaviest one I killed was maybe 170 and he was about 4 and a half. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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Misread your post Doc, I must have been pretty tired. I admit deer are usually no more than 125 pounds where I hunt them in Texas but I am lucky enough to hunt several states for deer every year and if the draw gods smile on me I get to hunt elk too. The feral hogs around here can really test a bullet for you though. I can only remember two real bullet failures, the first was with a 250 grain Sierra Spitzer boatail out of a 338 which did not expand on an elk at 450 yards. I recovered that elk but it was an epic project. The other was a 130 grain Sierra flat base fired from a 270 at an antelopes shoulder, range 50 feet, the bullet did a surface blow up which shattered the shoulder and made a 6 inch crater, that animal went four miles before we caught up to it. The first failure was probably mine using this heavy a bullet pushed only to 2700 fps at 450 yards but I kinda blame the second on the bullet. I still use certain Sierra bullets but neither of those two. Leftists are intellectually vacant, but there is no greater pleasure than tormenting the irrational. | |||
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I met someone indirectly through an outfitter. This guy is one of his references and said I could come down to his Texas ranch anytime to hog hunt. He's about 2 hours from Dallas. He said he has so many hogs that sometimes he'll shoot them in the gut so they will run off pretty far from his feeder to die. Within 1-2 days, that kill is now a coyote haven and then he pops them too. I'll probably get a flight down there this year and do some bullet testing from 3-4 rifles. We'll see what happens. I haven't had bacon in awhile. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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Feral hogs are becoming so common, even in and around the cities of Dalolas and Fort Worth that it's hard to believe. A big problem is the trouble getting access to hunt them and the proximity to city limits. Leftists are intellectually vacant, but there is no greater pleasure than tormenting the irrational. | |||
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I don’t know which one or a combination is believable: Whether one has harvested 100+ deer, only once did the bullet did not exit a deer, or one has never had to track one with a rifle, if one claims to harvest that many. I don’t really care for your reputation nor do I care whether you mention that you do not have a reason to lie or embellish yourself. If you meet such a hunter with a tally of over 50 deer under his/her belt, you will certainly hear stories of clean misses, how the wounded one got away, etc. What I care about is the illusion that one gives that he/she has harvested such amount of deer and all of them were found within 25 yards. I have never met a hunter, with a rifle, that has not harvested at least 25 deer in a row without missing one completely. So, in theory, it would be hard to meet a hunter who has harvested at least 50 deer with a rifle and have not wound one which would be that the deer would be found dead at least 25 yards away. You have never missed a deer completely with a rifle nor ever made a bad shot? That is why I was curious in your reply for my previous post. | |||
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I think Vapodog pretty much nailed it. Bullet failure does not equate to kill failure however. Every bullet ever built was designed to perform withing certain parameters for specific applications. When it does not perform properly in that envelope it failed. When your varmint bullet blows up on a deer/hog/whatever BG animal you like, you failed, not the bullet. Doesn't mean the animal isn't in the freezer though. I've never had a failure but have loaded ammo that did fail. Fella wanted SGK 180's for his Weatherby, .300 BTW. Penciled thru 4 deer with them, he recovered two because of snow. Didn't help with the other two though. Caliber hole in, same same out.  If yuro'e corseseyd and dsyelixc can you siltl raed oaky? | |||
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In my experience the size of the animal matter sometimes. Sometimes it seems to matter very little (no pun intended). Shot placement is voodoo science also. Case in point. I shot a very small spike blacktail several years ago with a 99Sav (300sav) from about 75 yards. It weighed MUCH less than 100 lbs after field dressing, I’m guessing 75-80 lbs. I was using 150g Hornady Spire Point handloads which grouped about 2†at 100 yards. For the first shot I aimed lower than I figured was necessary, and it went about 2†over its back due to the EXTREME downward angle of the shot and the narrowness of the target. Something I now have hopefully alleviated with practice at these angles… Nothing like your younger brother saying, “Wow, I can’t believe you missed that from so close†to commit you to practice. The deer was almost straight down below me. I probably could have dropped a big rock on it. Looking back, that might have worked better. Aiming still lower, my second shot hit it a little high up on the back and broke its spine. It fell to the ground and started to crawl away. My third shot hit it dead on in the boiler room and it didn’t stop. My fourth shot hit it just below the head on the neck and it DRT as it was trying to craw away. My point is, my third shot on the animal killed it. With the exception of the third shot (boiler room) both others penetrated clear through and I’m sure would have eventually killed the animal. While dressing the animal, I found the third bullet. It was lodged on the opposite side of the animal, just under the skin along with pieces of bone shrapnel. The bullet was mushroomed perfectly, with most of the front peeled back. I never weighed it, but it did its job. Too bad nobody told the deer…  JUST A TYPICAL WHITE GUY BITTERLY CLINGING TO GUNS AND RELIGION Definition of HOPLOPHOBIA "I'm the guy that originally wrote the 'assault weapons' ban." --- Former Vice President Joe Biden | |||
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I already responded to this. You can believe or not believe, either way, I don't really care. What is so hard to believe about someone who has killed so many deer (and by the way, the tally is more than likely over 250) when you can kill one deer per day in Alabama from Oct 15-Jan31? Let alone, you can kill one buck and one doe per day during doe days after Christmas. Not to mention there are hundreds of farmers with deprivation permits where Does can be taken per tag. Some farms in the south received 40 permits per year for several years in a row..
First, I have indeed missed deer with a bow and a muzzleloader, but never a rifle. Second, I don't know how many hunters you've ever met. Third, I don't know how many hunters you've ever met that have killed over 50 deer. Why is 50 the magical number? I can share several stories of clean misses, bow shots to the shoulder my second year of hunting where I was stupid and didn't practice with a broadhead because I didn't know any better. I've got plenty of stories of that type, how many do you want to read? The fact remains, I've never had a bullet failure which is the title of this thread. The fact remains that I've had ONLY ONE bullet not blast right through the vitals. I posted the picture of that deer for you.
I will take this comment at face value that you have labeled me as a liar. At first, it angered me. However, we do not know each other, and you obviously have a problem giving someone the benefit of the doubt. To polish my original comment of 25 yards or under, I'll add that most all rifle shots that I've taken on game have left me with a kill at a reasonable 15 or under. I'm sure that will flare you BS meter. I have no explanation on my luck or skill or shot placement.
Well, I guess there's a first time for everything, and you've just met the first one, even though it is only via the internet. Again, for all I know you've met 3 other hunters in your life, maybe 175 or more. Doesn't matter. I don't ever recall making any claim whatsoever that I've never missed a deer or not wounded one. I have. If you can find a post where I stated that I've never wounded a deer or missed one, I certainly mispoke. But I'd like to see it. So, in theory, I think you're hallucinating.
Yes. I have missed a deer, plenty, even the best buck I would have ever taken in Alabama, but I put an arrow right in his shoulder at 15 yards. Never found him. No, I have never made a bad shot with a rifle. Have you?
I humbly apologize to you if my response is not to your liking but I also really do not care if you believe it or not. And, as I said before, go ahead and chalk it up as unbelievable. I'll keep admiring the dozens of deer on my wall, and when I go to visit my father, I'll refresh all of my fond memories while looking at over 37 deer mounted, still hanging all over his house and in his garage that I put down. I have lived in Ohio since 1999. The deer limit has always been 2-3 Special deer permits and 4 urban permits. To date, I have filled all but 2 of those tags. If I recall, we've had 2 years where we could take 7 per year. All were with a bow or muzzleloader. This is a shotgun state. I've hunted KY ever since I've been in Ohio. You can take one buck per year (same as Ohio), but Doe tags are unlimited in Grant Co. I've filled more tags there than I can remember. I lived in Iowa from 1995 to 1999 and hunted both there and northern MO every winter and filled every single tag, except turkeys. I lived in Arizona from 1991-1994 and took quite a few Coues deer with a bow but never got to rifle hunt there. My brother resides in SC, I've filled every tag there for years. I'm up to over 80+ deer and I haven't even touched Alabama yet. Not to mention, Colorado, Wyoming, Tennessee, or Georgia. Have a nice day. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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I have met several people that have done that, one being the fella I share a lease with. Inbetween was a smattering of coyotes, hogs and wild dogs. Marlin 30-30 and a 4X scope. I never really kept track of his batting average but he's been on the same lease for 20 years now, usually takes 3-4 deer each year. He did shoot one twice a couple of years back though. If yuro'e corseseyd and dsyelixc can you siltl raed oaky? | |||
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Hey BongoCongo, Could you be a bit more specific about that? Yes, I know he is a Buckeye(right now), so no need to beat him up over that. You got some kind of a problem with Dentists? Is that what you were refering to about Doc's "reputation"? Hey BongoCongo, I'm a bit curious myself concerning your background. 1. Where were you born and where did you live "before" moving to the Lowcountry? 2. What does your Father do for a living? 3. Why didn't you go into the military? 4. Have you ever heard of Earl Dukes or the Antley brothers? | |||
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Hey Fred, Looking through the thread, it is apparent some of the folks and I agree. Actually most of the folks and I agree, but with slightly different wording. There are two kinds of Bullet Failures; 1. A Bullet that does not function properly when used within it's Design Envelope. 2. A Bullet that appears to have failed, but was improperly used outside it's Design Envelope. Concerning #1, the trick is understanding what a specific Bullet is actually Designed to do. The size Game, what shots on-Game a person believes is OK to take, and the Impact Velocity are the things that determine "if" the Bullet is working within it's Design. An actual Bullet Failure when used within the actual Design Envelope is possible(they are man-made), but would be very rare "today". Concerning #2, the Failure could be as simple as having the Impact Velocity too high or too low, using it on Game at an angle where it has no chance of reaching the vitals, Game that is too large for the Bullet Design, Bullet hit a grass stem or twig on the way to the Game, but mostly the "perceived" Failures are simply using the wrong Bullet for the Game being hunted. --- It seems to me the vast majority of the Bullet Discussion Threads "today" revolve around Perceived Bullet Failure. For those of us who hunted a lot of years prior to the 1970s, the Bullets from most Manufacturers just weren't as well made back then as they have been since those times. There were great Bullets being made back then by Fred Barnes, John Nosler and the Bitterroots. But, it was also possible to use the Barnes and Bitterroots "improperly" and have them give the appearance of failure. About the only way you could ever goof up an old Nosler Partition was to have the Velocity to low at the time of Impact and that remains true today. --- Lots and lots of absolutely outstanding Bullets being made today, and for at least the last 35 years. Most folks could hunt with the Standard Grade Bullets being made today and never have a need for a Premium. But, there are shot conditions and specific Game, where using a Premium Bullet simply makes them a better choice for cleaner kills. | |||
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I've had several bullet failures. I've also had several misses. I shot a Bull Elk through the heart, and the bullet was found against the broken right leg bone. This was a .35 Caliber X bullet that had the cavity closed by bending in, with no expansion. A guide in Canada had a .30-06 Partition go through a moose and stick in a Poplar with no expansion and my wife shot a moose with the same bullet with no expansion. I've shot Whitetails with Ballistic Tips and Game Kings that hit the shoulder and exploded, requiring another shot most times, although the shrapnel did kill one. JD | |||
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Hotcore, I agree of course w/ the premise that too many guys don't match there ammo/bullets to the game they are hunting. My observation of my buddies 180gr WW Silvertip was it "failed" because it completely disintegrated w/o hitting any serious bone @ nominal vel. The 180gr bullet is adv. as a deer.elk bullet but I question the use on elk after seeing the results. LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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My experience with bullet failure is a classic example of captdavid's example #2. As a kid, the "old men" who "knew" what they were talking about, (note a bit of skepticism) claimed that Hornaday bullets exploded/came apart & were absolutely no good. I believed it then, grew up shooting nothing but nosler partitions. I don't think that to my knowledge I have ever shot a hornaday bullet, I know better now, but I get an inadvertent shiver at the thought of it. Of course I still believe that if I cross my eyes they will stick like that, thanks to my mother. Mike "Too lazy to work and too nervous to steal" | |||
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Hey Fred, Was this a recent experience? Any chance at all the Bullet might have hit a Weed or Grass stem before it reached the Elk? Certainly do not doubt what you saw and reported, we have communicated too many times for that to even be a question. Like you though, I would have thought the old 180gr Silver Tip plodding along from at a 30-06 initial Velocity would have held together better too. It does provide an excellent example of "Why" a person should go on and use a Premium Bullet when going after an Elk. And as most folks know, I do like good old Standard Grade Bullets for the vast majority of my hunting. | |||
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OK, OK, OK! I'm a little jealous already. No need to count the rest... Doc and Hot Core, I agree. Unless you actually know who you're talking about and their particular situation, it’s hard to make a judgment. I would not besmirch anybody's reputation unless I knew what they were saying was a lie. Every time I have done this in the past, it has bitten me square in the ast… Especially when every STATE has different rules. If someone has shot more than 80 deer in Oregon, that guy is 90 years old, a liar, or a poacher. That’s pretty easy to figure out. My cousin lived in your area (the south and southeast) for several years. He shot so many deer that he probably couldn’t count them all. I have hunted with him off and on for 13 years now (some years he bow hunts, I don’t). While he has completely “missed†a couple of deer due to conditions (it’s pretty brushy in places out here) he has never “lost†one while I was with him. We had to “track†one deer about 75 yards once. Most of the others were DRT. I define “missing†a deer as a shot that does not “hit†the animal. You “miss†the animal with the shot. Most times when I have seen animals “missedâ€, it was a shot that probably shouldn’t have been taken in the first place. I define “tracking†as going after a wounded animal by looking for “sign;†a blood trail or “tracks.†Tracking is not walking in ever larger circles around where you last saw the animal until you stumble over it lying on the ground, or walking in the general direction it ran off until you stumble over it. Tracking means looking for “sign.†I define a “lost†animal as being a “hit†animal that subsequently escapes my dinner table. The big problem with “lost†animals is unless you see a bullet strike, you never really know if you “hit†them or not. I have never “lost†an animal that I know of but there is always next year… JUST A TYPICAL WHITE GUY BITTERLY CLINGING TO GUNS AND RELIGION Definition of HOPLOPHOBIA "I'm the guy that originally wrote the 'assault weapons' ban." --- Former Vice President Joe Biden | |||
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