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Originally posted by Hot Core:

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Originally posted by fredj338:
... My observation of my buddies 180gr WW Silvertip was it "failed" because it completely disintegrated w/o hitting any serious bone @ nominal vel. The 180gr bullet is adv. as a deer.elk bullet but I question the use on elk after seeing the results.

Hey Fred, Was this a recent experience? Any chance at all the Bullet might have hit a Weed or Grass stem before it reached the Elk?

Certainly do not doubt what you saw and reported, we have communicated too many times for that to even be a question. Like you though, I would have thought the old 180gr Silver Tip plodding along from at a 30-06 initial Velocity would have held together better too.

It does provide an excellent example of "Why" a person should go on and use a Premium Bullet when going after an Elk. And as most folks know, I do like good old Standard Grade Bullets for the vast majority of my hunting.

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Originally posted by Flippy:
...There are better bullets than the Silvertip.
Unfortunatly there are WORSE bullets also...

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Originally posted by Hot Core:

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Originally posted by Flippy:
...There are better bullets than the Silvertip.
Unfortunatly there are WORSE bullets also...

Hey Flippy, Well said!

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Originally posted by Doc:

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Originally posted by BongoCongo:

I don’t know which one or a combination is believable: Whether one has harvested 100+ deer, only once did the bullet did not exit a deer, or one has never had to track one with a rifle, if one claims to harvest that many.

I already responded to this. You can believe or not believe, either way, I don't really care. What is so hard to believe about someone who has killed so many deer (and by the way, the tally is more than likely over 250) when you can kill one deer per day in Alabama from Oct 15-Jan31? Let alone, you can kill one buck and one doe per day during doe days after Christmas. Not to mention there are hundreds of farmers with deprivation permits where Does can be taken per tag. Some farms in the south received 40 permits per year for several years in a row..

Per se your reply of your hunting history/state regulations, I live in area where one can harvest at least 20 deer a season and does not raise an eyebrow, at least not for me or a lot of hunters hereabouts. Our deer season runs August 15th to January 1st, no limit on bucks (1†long antler on one side), approx. 10 anterless days, up to 5 anterless tags for individuals, and certain number of anterless tags depending on land/deer capacity for large landowners/hunting clubs. Since you hunt with your brother in SC a lot, you probably knew this.

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I don’t really care for your reputation nor do I care whether you mention that you do not have a reason to lie or embellish yourself. If you meet such a hunter with a tally of over 50 deer under his/her belt, you will certainly hear stories of clean misses, how the wounded one got away, etc.

First, I have indeed missed deer with a bow and a muzzleloader, but never a rifle. Second, I don't know how many hunters you've ever met. Third, I don't know how many hunters you've ever met that have killed over 50 deer. Why is 50 the magical number? I can share several stories of clean misses, bow shots to the shoulder my second year of hunting where I was stupid and didn't practice with a broadhead because I didn't know any better. I've got plenty of stories of that type, how many do you want to read? The fact remains, I've never had a bullet failure which is the title of this thread. The fact remains that I've had ONLY ONE bullet not blast right through the vitals. I posted the picture of that deer for you.

For a long time, I used to belong to a hunting club that had upwards 60 hunters canvassing several thousand acres. We had many a social event. I’ve been invited to other clubs as a guest as well. I have many friends that hunt as well as a many hunters amongst my family members. I’ve been hunting since I was 7 years old.

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What I care about is the illusion that one gives that he/she has harvested such amount of deer and all of them were found within 25 yards.

I will take this comment at face value that you have labeled me as a liar. At first, it angered me. However, we do not know each other, and you obviously have a problem giving someone the benefit of the doubt. To polish my original comment of 25 yards or under, I'll add that most all rifle shots that I've taken on game have left me with a kill at a reasonable 15 or under. I'm sure that will flare you BS meter. I have no explanation on my luck or skill or shot placement.

You have not made me angry. I’m pretty laid back. I think I can tell you where I’m coming from…

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I have never met a hunter, with a rifle, that has not harvested at least 25 deer in a row without missing one completely. So, in theory, it would be hard to meet a hunter who has harvested at least 50 deer with a rifle and have not wound one which would be that the deer would be found dead at least 25 yards away.

Well, I guess there's a first time for everything, and you've just met the first one, even though it is only via the internet. Again, for all I know you've met 3 other hunters in your life, maybe 175 or more. Doesn't matter. I don't ever recall making any claim whatsoever that I've never missed a deer or not wounded one. I have. If you can find a post where I stated that I've never wounded a deer or missed one, I certainly mispoke. But I'd like to see it. So, in theory, I think you're hallucinating.

[COLOR:RED]I was thinking along the terms of harvesting at least 25 deer a season rather than over a certain amount of years. I can understand where one may harvest several deer a season and do very well cumulatively over the years. I’m a very local person and far most of the hunters around me are from the coastal plains of South Carolina and the South. [/COLOR]

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You have never missed a deer completely with a rifle nor ever made a bad shot?

Yes. I have missed a deer, plenty, even the best buck I would have ever taken in Alabama, but I put an arrow right in his shoulder at 15 yards. Never found him.

No, I have never made a bad shot with a rifle. Have you?


Yes, I have made bad shots on deer, with a rifle and shotgun. I have wounded deer and never found them. I have made complete misses as well. Far most deer are found very close to where they were hit however I’m not surprised when some cover quite a bit of ground, even with a well placed shot. Many have dropped on the spot and that is a good blessing. I would have to say that most of the deer I shoot are within 35 yards.

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That is why I was curious in your reply for my previous post.

I humbly apologize to you if my response is not to your liking but I also really do not care if you believe it or not. And, as I said before, go ahead and chalk it up as unbelievable. I'll keep admiring the dozens of deer on my wall, and when I go to visit my father, I'll refresh all of my fond memories while looking at over 37 deer mounted, still hanging all over his house and in his garage that I put down.

I have lived in Ohio since 1999....My brother resides in SC, I've filled every tag there for years... I'm up to over 80+ deer and I haven't even touched Alabama yet. Not to mention, Colorado, Wyoming, Tennessee, or Georgia.

Have a nice day.

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Originally posted by fredj338:
Yes HC, it was 4 years ago. These were the original silver capped SilverTip. The shot could have clipped something, but the entrance wound was caliber size w/ no exit. That's why I would say it failed. No way that bullet gets through shoulder muscle or a leg bone & kills that bull. Then I just keep plodding along shooting everything w/ the NP & getting complete pass throughs from any decent angle, along w/ great interior damage.

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Originally posted by Reloader:
...I've got over 100 of the .277s 140 grain Silver Tip Boat tails in the reloading room, I might have to load some up and slam a whitetail w/ em' to see how they do. ...

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Originally posted by Flippy:
We Tukians got to stick together...
Carolina is CLOSE to Tuky, aint it?

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Originally posted by Hot Core:

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Originally posted by BongoCongo:
...I don’t really care for your reputation ...

I originally thought that Doc is from Alabama and still is living there where there is liberal bag limits for deer in many parts and have the opportunity to harvest very many deer in a season with a rifle.

My train of thought is: When one has the opportunity to use a couple boxes of rifle shells on deer in a season, then it is unusual for one to go through a season without having stories about misses, tracking jobs, and wounded deer. I thought Doc, as a current Alabama native, was in this group so I was kind of surprised about him being able to harvest much deer with a rifle without tracking one. Since, I read his history that he wrote; I understand where he is coming from.

I never did beat him up for living where he currently calls home or in other states he has lived. I will not start to either. I don’t know where you got that from.

A very good friend of mine is a dentist (my dentist as well) and we hunt quail together every now and then. I also have a very good friend who is a dental hygienist. I didn’t know that Doc is a dentist by profession (his handle name makes sense now).

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What I care about is the illusion that one gives that he/she has harvested such amount of deer and all of them were found within 25 yards. I have never met a hunter, with a rifle, that has not harvested at least 25 deer in a row without missing one completely.

Is that what you were refering to about Doc's "reputation"?

I believe you have read my last reply to Doc’s post, haven’t you?

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That is why I was curious in your reply for my previous post.

Hey BongoCongo, I'm a bit curious myself concerning your background.

1. Where were you born and where did you live "before" moving to the Lowcountry?
2. What does your Father do for a living?
3. Why didn't you go into the military?
4. Have you ever heard of Earl Dukes or the Antley brothers?

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Unlike our rather rude kid BongoCongo (who seems to be reluctant to answer my questions), one thing I have is a lot of experience "killing Deer"(as opposed to the Ultra-Liberal harvesting he mentioned). Some of the Plantations I have access to has Unlimited Predation Permits where you are allowed to kill all the Deer you see 24/7/365.

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Originally posted by BongoCongo:
I’m surprised that you would ask rude questions and if someone does not answer to you…You would think that person was rude.

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Originally posted by Reloader:
Fred,

I thought you were talking about the Ballistic Silver Tips. Now I see what you are talking about, those old Win Silver Tips were just "Plain Jane" cup and cores w/ a Big Pretty silver wash on 1/4 of the bullet. I've only shot those out of 30-30 w/ the exception of a few from my 270 at paper but, I would imagine they'd be pretty soft. They did work fine in the ole' Dirty-Thirty.

Hot Core,

I did see the White Box Win Silver tips in 30-30 about 6 or 8 years back at a shop but, I'm not sure when they quit producing them.

I've got over 100 of the .277s 140 grain Silver Tip Boat tails in the reloading room, I might have to load some up and slam a whitetail w/ em' to see how they do.

Reloader

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Originally posted by Doc:
... I certainly hope that the numbers didn't come across as bragging. That was certainly not the intent.

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Incidently, I'm not a DMD or DDS, it is DC. Worked with Orthopaedic Spine Surgical Group for 2 years right after graduation, currently working on Diplomate in Neurology and chewing on Diplomate in Orthopaedics, but that means less hunting...hmmm.

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Originally posted by Hot Core:
DC? We have BC for Ballistic Coefficent, is that Doctor Coefficent?