It seemed to start on the African Forum but has surely spread here --- posters are going off half-cocked making accusations and berating others to the point it's mean-spirited and not much fun and certainly isn't informative.

I wonder how many would say to someone's face what they say to him/her on these Forums?

It reminds me of little, yappy dogs hiding behind the cloak of their 'sign-on names" running out and biting at the ankles of others.

You can ignore the children if you want to.For them it's cheaper than psychiatric care.

I always thought what made the net so much fun was that everyone was an "expert", and you know how upset "experts" get when someone else doesn't agree with them! Obviously, the solution is to just read what someone writes, and move on. Problem is that some just can't stand the thought of not being the one who is "right". Just my .02.

selfishness..lack of respect for and accountability to other people..anonymity

quote:

Originally posted by DB Bill:
It seemed to start on the African Forum but has surely spread here --- posters are going off half-cocked making accusations and berating others to the point it's mean-spirited and not much fun and certainly isn't informative.

I wonder how many would say to someone's face what they say to him/her on these Forums?

It reminds me of little, yappy dogs hiding behind the cloak of their 'sign-on names" running out and biting at the ankles of others.

Howdy DB Bill-I agree with your post 100%.Sure would be a blast to watch the name calling in person.

Take care..Jayco

I agree it's just getting out of hand.

Try to be the arbitor of who made the best argument yourself. My standard is that when I have made points in a polite manner and others use rude remarks or dancing balls then I know that I have won the debate.

If you look at many of the cruel remarks they are just lazy retorts. Dismiss then for what they are. If someone could come up with a buzz word to label them besides troll it might work for a while.

"Toward no crime have men shown themselves so cold-bloodedly cruel as in punishing differences of belief."
James R. Lowell

The above quote illustrates the last refuge of the vacuous mind. Stand above such behavior. In the long run it's a pleasant way to live.

Yes, it is out of hand. I've been embroiled in a couple of these bucking sessions myself recently. Pride is usually the culprit -- that, and the ability to hide behind phony names and a computer screen gives a lot of guys backbone they never knew they had before.

And I stand with the guilty in terms of adding fuel to some of these fires, making facetious comments, not letting things go that would better be left ignored, creating controversy, pride, and all the rest of it.

Some of us need to change the way we particpate in and respond to topics of discussion around here, and I'm one of them.........

AD

It seems to me that there are so many new posters that the "old culture" of the board has been lost.

It seems that we have moved from discussions in Saeed's living room among friends, to shouting in the square.

The inevitable price of growth? Dutch.

I agree the anonymity part makes it easy to sling mud. Anyone can figure out my name - just check my email.

If we all agreed on everything, it would be pretty boring. But why some people have such a hard time time with those who disagree with them is a bit puzzling. I can't think of anyone who posts on here with whom I agree 100%, yet that doesn't mean I wouldn't go hunting with them.

For a while a spent some time on Campfire. But a few strong personalities there (who have less experience shooting and hunting than me) made me drop it. A friend recommended this site, and the one thing I liked about it was the civil nature, but that appears to have changed.

The internet allows people to run their mouths in ways they would never imagine in real time meetings.

Moderators can fix that problem, but some I find that generally turns into to much of a good thing.

Unfortunately the one thing missing in a lot of people is common sense and courtesy

quote:

that, and the ability to hide behind phony names and a computer screen gives a lot of guys backbone they never knew they had before

99% of the BS that gets flung around here would
never happen face to face.

Not me. I don't hesitate to call any Democrat an ill informed radical, commie, dumb ass. Ahh of course except for my Pop and ahh of course Mom excluded too oh and My brother and Ahh oh and Uncle Joe.. Dang, I guess I better think things out next time!

One more thought just popped into my head.

A lot of people try and "sell" their ideas. Unfortunately, good salesmen need to be able to handle rejection, and it appears a lot of folks have a hard time with that.

it is easy to hide behind plastic when you know you won't be held accountable for what you say.. you can also "make" up an identity...

to many read and believe what they read without really getting facts or first hand knowledge then come on places like this and tell it as the gospel...

there is also a lack of common sense or reality...

just to easy to hide behind a screen...

quote:

Originally posted by ACRecurve:
selfishness..lack of respect for and accountability to other people..anonymity

Right on the money ACR. It seems far too prevalent in today's society.

Too many assholes have joined the site. Their moronic and combative comments put people on guard, and people become prone to snappishness.

Short of wholesale bannings, AR is going to be stuck with them until they tire of their stupid game.

George

My hunting partner commented on this very concern only a few days ago, and I agreed that things seemed to be not so very cordial anymore.

Then yesterday I stumbled into a string here in the Big Game forum and it seems that things are much worse here even!

Did the trolls of a year or two ago, and the responses to them, lower our collective level of tolerance?

I also wonder if some of the trolls are back and more subtle, or new ones are here, asking questions or making suggestions crafted to generate controversy?


Les

I always thought it was a place to share information. Communcate. In the old days the only hunting news you got was once a month in the form of a hunting magazine. And by the time you found out about an issue it was to late to do anything. Now we have this platform. We know about legislative bills, laws, attacks,trophy animals killed,etc: etc;! Some times the same day they hit the press. This is good!

I feel that wolves and the nonresident issue can, could, will, might, and has affected hunting. The more informed we are, the more educated we are concerning the issue. Which helps us make decisions to either support or condemn each issue. I try to post news articles as well as other published info that might educate fellow hunters.

Then comes the macho aspect, the personal attacks, the individualism of each hunter. All wanting thier vioce and oppinion heard. I have also learned about personalities. A phsycologist could do a thesis on the different types just on this forum.

I have been called about every imaginable name in the english vocabulary. (water off a ducks back). I enjoy the confrontations and yes I would do the same in person. And I do! And yes it does get out of hand, myself included.

But it is fun!

quote:

Originally posted by DB Bill:
It seemed to start on the African Forum but has surely spread here --- posters are going off half-cocked making accusations and berating others to the point it's mean-spirited and not much fun and certainly isn't informative.

I wonder how many would say to someone's face what they say to him/her on these Forums?

It reminds me of little, yappy dogs hiding behind the cloak of their 'sign-on names" running out and biting at the ankles of others.

Definitely fertile grounds for discussion. In the simplest of terms and to answer one of you questions, the bottom line is folks write nasty comments because it IS human nature. Of course they wouldn't say face to face what they may write here. Heck, I'm sure everyone here knows another person that gossips about another person behind their back frequently but would not say those things to that individual personally.

One could argue that we now know EXACTLY how someone feels about a certain topic because they may remain anonymous, whereas they might not speak their mind face to face. Simply put, the TRUTH comes out. However, the mean-ness is quite unnecessary. I've written some "bad" things in during a pity party, uhh, and after a few beers, which I do not drink often, so it affects me quicker.

Shall we engage in a challenge to ourselves? ie. from this point on, we will no longer contribute to mean spirited threads, and ignore those whom cannot stand up to the challenge? Of course this is possible. Most of us here are better people than that. I don't know any of you personally but I admit I have admired and respected what my take is on several based on past posts.

I like the threads because I like talking about guns, reloading, hunting, sharing photos, etc. I browse the political forum now and then just for fun. But I'm here for the sharing of information.

By the way, I'm bear hunting in New Brunswick for a week, then up to Alberta for a week right afterwards. If I'm successful, would anyone like me to post my pictures?

I think it is human nature, as a lot of people pointed out, it is easy to hide behind a fake name and a computer but I don't think it is all bad either. In some cases people are able to say what they might have always been afraid to because society demands a certain amount of "social graces" when you speak in person. When you are in person, you have facial expressions and voice tones that the other person(s) are able to pick up on, here, you only have written word, so to exclamate a point it seems people move into name-calling and personal banter. At some point it gets a little ridiculous. I think forums give people a place to vent and throw ideas out that they would not otherwise do. Doesn't mean they are right, and yes it would be a lot more "pleasant" if people didn't, but I think most of us have pretty thick skin and just need to realize, its a FORUM! I would give anything if university and college classrooms had as much disagreement as we have here (even though it may not be debated in the most stimulating manner) it seems colleges and universities are creating mindless drones who sit around and agree with each other while stroking their.........thats another issue all together.

JMO!

IV

QUOTE!
By the way, I'm bear hunting in New Brunswick for a week, then up to Alberta for a week right afterwards. If I'm successful, would anyone like me to post my pictures?



If you don't post them I will let Madgoat accuse you of shooting hand tossed pheasants.


HELL YES! I would love to see them!

I read a very interesting article on this exact subject. It brought up a scary point. What if human nature is just cruel? The internet facilitates our realizing this due to its anonymous qualities. In addition, I think it's due to the huge membership increase.

By the way, anyone ever see the movie "Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back?" Overall the movie kind of sucked, but the scene where Jay tracks down that little kid who talked trash to him on the internet and proceeds to kick him in the face...that was hilarious. Sorry if that was too much of a tangent!

quote:

think it is human nature, as a lot of people pointed out, it is easy to hide behind a fake name and a computer but I don't think it is all bad either. In some cases people are able to say what they might have always been afraid to because society demands a certain amount of "social graces" when you speak in person. When you are in person, you have facial expressions and voice tones that the other person(s) are able to pick up on, here, you only have written word, so to exclamate a point it seems people move into name-calling and personal banter. At some point it gets a little ridiculous. I think forums give people a place to vent and throw ideas out that they would not otherwise

No body language! That is great in a face on face confrontattion.

What I want to know, doesn't anyone work on this forum?

quote:

Doc: By the way, I'm bear hunting in New Brunswick for a week, then up to Alberta for a week right afterwards. If I'm successful, would anyone like me to post my pictures?

Definitely! Even if you aren't successful! I wish more folks would post pics, makes the threads that much more interesting. As Kodak used to say, a picture is worth a thousand words. www.photobucket.com is a good host site, easy to use.

Y'know when there's a pissing match going on we should all just stay out of it, it makes the forum a better place. I know I've jumped in on a couple myself and regretted it later....you can't win an argument typing. Aren't we here because we like shooting/hunting? I have made a pledge to myself today to stay out of the political forum, it matters not to hunting and just gets my blood pressure up. Let's not forget why Sayeed started this forum, it's for hunters and shooters and we should try to get along.

the chef

Kudu, you're nothing but a loud mouthed, red necked, egg headed bullshit artist who...

While I don't always agree with you, we definately have some spirited conversations!

In my own opinion, disagreement = free speech. It also is a catalyst for new ideas, and sharing information from a different perspective. The personal attacks are like the egg head says...like water on a ducks back. If you want everyone to agree with everything, go become a communist.

And FYI, Doc has been officially cleared of any connection with the TV show, and I doubt they could throw a black bear out of a tower...

MG

Yes we do, and I love them all!

I am going to get to Jackson one of these days and we are going to have a drink! or two! or three! etc; etc;

By god I bet you and me could get one in the tower and I bet we could also throw it out!

Hello the campfire:
I am new to this camp, and I enjoy the information that I find here/ Even with over a half centry of hunting and shooting I learn something new almost everythime I log on.
I was taught that a gentelman conducts himself so as to not give offense unless it is called for. I will argue the merits of various guns, loads, wines and women any time someone wants to. I do not want to converse with someone that I would not want to take home to meet my wife and grandchild. Its kind of like the girl that took seriously something that was poked at her in fun. She is stuck for life. Please, let all of us conduct ourselves so that we do not run off our friends for a monents bad judgment. Friends are hard to make and harder to keep, especilly at my age. The keep passing on to the place where the season never closes.
Mankind is naturally cruel. Just watch children at play. The reason for civilization is to tame that wild beast, house break him and make him sutable to marry your daughter or grandson.
Just my humble opinion.
Judge Sharpe, a poor widows son

It can be difficult to take, personally insulting, ludicrous or simply stupid and foolish, BUT, the best part of this forum is the freedom of speech it allows and stimulates. The Canadian forums do not have this and are lesser due to that, IMO. If, on a Canadian forum, you call Catholics, Americans, Englishmen,Germans or "whites" names, why, that is perfectly acceptable! But, if you dare to criticise an East Indian or a Muslim terrorist, then you are turfed off said forum swiftly, due to the ignorance and biases of those in charge.

So, although there are some here who snipe at others, due to jealousy and personal emotional problems, IMO, this is still the only forum where a man can say what he thinks, even if the flack he catches for doing so is ferocious, I for one, appreciate that and hope it never changes. If, I get called names, well, I can choose to call the person doing so a c***s***er, or just ignore him....no major problem. BUT, to have my speech curtailed by some quasi-literate mouthpiece whose level of erudition is lower than his runty pecker, now, that pisses me off!!!

quote:

Originally posted by kudu56:

If you don't post them I will let Madgoat accuse you of shooting hand tossed pheasants.


HELL YES! I would love to see them!

Yea, I read that thread about someone named "Doc" on the sportsmans channel. I gave a quick reply that it definitely wasn't me. I'm really not even a bird hunter. Haven't even been out for turkeys this year. I tried to enjoy turkey hunting last year but it was really quite boring. Sorry. I called in several jakes and a couple of toms but never pulled the trigger. I think one reason is because back the 80's I made a wish. That wish has stuck with me for all game animals except one. That wish was to kill my first "whatever" with a bow. Thus far it has happened except for my antelope last year. My first goat was with my 300 RUM.

I'd like to pheasant hunt again. I went 2-3 times when I lived in Iowa. I really like watching those dogs work.

I do not get the sportsmans channel here in Ohio. Maybe I could but I just watch the outdoor channel now and then.

One of the problems with message boards and email is that you can not hear a person's tone or inflection when you are reading a message. The spirit of the post is then defined by the person who reads it instead of the spirit in which the author intended.

It's true. Lately I have missed the ignore function more than ever.

The fear of getting a broken nose works wonders to foster civility in F2F situations. In the ideal world, no one would post anything on the net that they wouldn't be willing to say F2F.

It's like the old rule of thumb for regulating behavior in general: Never do anything that you'd be ashamed to see published the next morning in your local newspaper. That one's gone by the wayside too.

One of the problems is that some people seem to extrapolate a different opinion as a personal attack.

Person A: “I think the .308 in an XYZ action is the best thing going for deer.†(Not mentioning that he hunts whitetails in woods)
Person B, who hunts mulies in the mountains, thinks to himself, “well I use a .270 in the ABC action, so this guy must think my choice of caliber and equipment is pure sh*t, so what he’s really inferring is that I’m a real stupid idiot for using it, so….â€

“Well, screw you too, jerk!â€

Then we have the control people, who have to prove that their opinion is right and yours is wrong, and they will methodically, and in their minds quite creatively, construct perfectly logical arguments to defeat every point. As often as not this type is also passive/aggressive so would be very inhibited from doing this in a face to face encounter, so the anonymous internet provides a perfect outlet for them. When you see someone disect someone else’s post into several pieces and parts, with each part responded to separately, it’s a fair bet you are dealing with one of these types.

I no longer post opinions (with this post being an exception) simply because it gets tiring dealing with these people. If I can contribute some factual knowledge – a web address, some firearm related history or something - then I’ll do so, otherwise I’ve begun limiting my posts to an occasional gentle jibe to remind those clear headed enough to recognize them as such, to not take life or internet forums too seriously.

quote:

Originally posted by DB Bill:
It seemed to start on the African Forum but has surely spread here --- posters are going off half-cocked making accusations and berating others to the point it's mean-spirited and not much fun and certainly isn't informative.

I wonder how many would say to someone's face what they say to him/her on these Forums?

It reminds me of little, yappy dogs hiding behind the cloak of their 'sign-on names" running out and biting at the ankles of others.

I suspect some of this is gun-control-liberals posing as tough guys, hoping to make shooters look like their idea of asshole rednecks.

People are just plain getting screwy!! I live in a town of just 5,000 in central Wisconsin. You'd think we'd some of the best morals here in a farming community. The other day at our local library two gals got into it about sharing a computer that is for public use. They wound up outside almost duking it out and the cops had to come. NOw they are carrying on their battle in the local newspaper with letters to the editor and calling for the firing of the librarian that was on duty. WHAT A CRAZY WORLD!!!!

For some reason there are a lot more horses asses than horses these days!

quote:

Originally posted by Pathfinder:
For some reason there are a lot more horses asses than horses these days!

Very well said...I remmember on this forum when a few were attacking Ray Atkinson on Elk Hunting and his oppinion.Time to listen and not talk when one of his experience talks.I have been in the woods of Idaho all my life and worked there also and it makes me wonder sometimes how people can even question someone like Ray or several others that have the experience to back it up if they wanted but it falls on deaf ears only for Bull-Shit and Name Calling.

I have been doin it for 50+ years and still have things to learn and there are some like Ray who can share there many years of experience and I listen.

The guy I shot my very first Elk with is now 82 years old and he stopped by the house last year with another Elk he shot in the Selway-Bitteroot of Idaho.The only thing he told me was..It is getting pretty darned hard to get back up on the horse after all is said and done.

I would never question his opinion or experience and I am all ears when he talks.
My opinion...Jayco

I generally feel sorry for those that fly off the handle...if they are serious, they have a problem that is worse for them than it is for us.

The real answer to your question is that those relatively few people on this forum who consistently attack someone like Ray, whom I always enjoy because of his blunt, lack of bulls**t way of posting, or Allen Day, who actually hunts all over the place and has a hell of a lot of hands-on experience with custom rifles, are people who do NOT have any real experience in the bush and would be scared shitless more than twenty feet off a four lane paved road.

It is one thing to disagree, or even to snap at another guy in the heat of the moment, but, to call someone a liar, for example, just demonstrates that the person doing so cannot back up his opinions with honest experience. I have found this to be the case on many forums and now only frequent AR, 24Hr and Kifaru; they all have their moments, but, there are, as Logcutter points out, some very experienced guys whom one can learn from.

It's funny, when I was 18, just starting to work in the BC bush, I somehow knew more than I do now, forty years later, I wonder how that happened!