My uncle finally drew his once in a lifetime oryx tag in New Mexico, and used it as an excuse to buy a new gun. 338 win mag. He just got some winchester 200 grain ballistic silver tips. I think this is to soft of a bullet for his purposes. The man is not the best shot and I will be surprised if he does more than just sight in before the hunt. I really want to suggest a heavier bullet, or load him up some myself ( I have tons of bullets for my 338-06) I think if he goes up to a 225 or 250 then he wouldn't need a tough bullet but with a 200 grainer I think he should use a premium bullet. I just want to make sure he can break the shoulder if need be on a close up shot. Now for my question: Is my reasoning way off and I should just let be or should I step in and give the above advice. (no feelings would be hurt)

Tell him to shoot whatever round groups best in his rifle, be it 200 grain or not, as a bullet in the vitals is what we should all be after. If you want to, work up some loads for him and offer to load him up a box of whatever shoots the best.

My .338 likes the 230 gr failsafe, and I used it on everything my first two african safaris, including gemsbok. I use that same gun/load for everything here in the states too.

Work him up a good load with 210 Nosler Partitions. They shoot plenty flat, and will penetrate and mushroom good, near or far.

I used partitions and my son used TBBCs. In both cases the Gemsbok is still tough to put on the ground. We were using 30 caliber, so your uncle is ahead of our game with 338, which will be the caliber on my next African PG hunt.

If it were me on a once in a lifetime draw hunt for gemsbok I would be using 225 gr and up Triple Shok, Northfork, Partition in that order.

Haven't tried out the Northfork, but have them on order, but plenty of positive posts here by folks I trust. And after speaking with the proprieter, I believe he will go out of his way to help you even if it means recommending another manufacturer for a given situation.

I'd never use silvertips. Had bad luck with them. Go with the 230 grain Failsafe. They work great.

With my own .338 Win. Mag. I'd go with 210 gr. Partitions @ 2900 fps. I haven't seen anything they won't blow a hole through yet, and I like this bullet for its fine accuracy from my rifle, as well as lighter recoil.

But do experiment with 225s as well. Because the 225 gr. Partition (for example) carries a higher ballistic coefficient than the 210 gr. Partition, it shoots with almost the exact-same trajectory, even though it goes out of the barrel about 100 fps. slower.

Again, choose the premium bullet that shoots best in your rifle..............

AD

I agree with a 210 Nosler Partition, or a 225 grain TSX or Trophy Bonded Bear Claw, especially if your uncle doesn't have a lot of experience shooting a magnum rifle. These lighter bullets, particularly the 210, will not kick him as much as a 250 grainer.

I would NOT use a Nosler Ballistic Tip bullet on a gemsbok. They are very, very tough animals. I have killed one with a .338, but it took more killing than nearly anything else I have ever hunted.

After I put one 225 grain TBBC behind his shoulder at 200 yards, he ran about 50 yards and hunkered down under a tree. From 15 yards, I put another one behind his shoulder--and he didn't even flinch. Then I immediately put another one through both shoulders. After all of that, he still refused to die for several minutes.

I have seen a .30 caliber ballistic tip blow up in a whitetail. It killed the buck, and with perfect placement on a gemsbok would probably work, but the Partition, an X-Bullet or a TBBC would be much better suited to the game.

Another vote for the 210grNP. It's almost as flat as the 200grNBT & will do the job from any angle. Gemsbok are very tough but not bullet proof.

I have to agree with NE 450 No 2 and Allen Day and the others. A 210 gr NP is fast and accurate and carries a good punch. I have shot only one gemsbok in RSA and I used my .378 with fast 300 gr. Hornady RNSP (which broke apart on impact) but still pushed through with two dime sized exit wounds. The animal still ran 50 meters with a shot heart. Gemsbok are compact tough animals. I would try and place a 210 gr NP behind the shoulder through the heart/lungs for complete penetration. A shoulder bone may stop a 210 gr NP at some point, so I would focus on the soft lung tissue and shoot both lungs.

I agree with SnakeLover.

I would go a step farther, and say stop giving your uncle advice, it's his hunt of a lifetime, not yours. Let him decide. Don't highjack his hunt. Tell him what you think, then leave him be. Don't shake his confidence.

I say this only because I shot my gemsbok bull with a 150 gr. Winchester Ballistic Silvertip in 300 WSM at about 225 yards in RSA. Bang! Dead!

This was a few days after getting a Kudu bull at 280 yards with the same round. Bang! Dead!

This was a few years before I got my Dall's sheep with the same round. Bang! Dead!

Your uncle is fine.

I think I'd suggest more bullet. The last Gembok I shot was with a .416 Rigby pushing a 350 Barnes X at 2650. The animal was literally stunned at the impact. He staggered 15 or 20 yards and dropped.

Even though he was hit in the shoulder, we had a good exit wound as one would expect with a tough, long heavy bullet. Seeing the carcass hanging helped me understand that these fellas are sturdily built. The bullet had a lot of muscle and bone to traverse.

Were I going, I'd probably go with a 225 or a 250 gr Partition or X bullet.

I think bigger is almost always better in relation to caliber/bullet weight. On three trips to Africa, I have seen 4 gemsbok shot, all went down with one shot each. Three fell to .338 (2x230 gr failsafe bullets, 1@210gr nosler), while the fourth fell to a 260 remington from my dad's XP100. In addition, my uncle shot an oryx in New Mexico with a .280, again a single shot.

I beleive it is more important to consistently hit where you aim rather than add the extra bullet weight. If they all group the same, great, go with the heavier bullet. However, if a certain bullet leaves one jagged hole or a nice clover leaf, but was lighter than the rest, I'd still shoot it and forget about it.

Thanks for the input. Everyone pretty much confirmed my thoughts. I did this hunt about 4 years ago and know these animals are tough. I consider them about the equivalent of elk. As far as messing with my uncles hunt, I think he will only appreciate my advice. (my dad called me to ask how many animals in a row this cool black bullet from a shiny silver case would go through in a row before it stops) Because of course this is much more gun than my uncle's 300 win mag which he put a 180 grain X in and out of two caribou with one shot. That should explain how these guys were thinking. If I were really going to give the best advice it would be to take that 300 and never look back. But I wont meddle that much. And since he has only bought one box of ammo for a gun he has never even shot I don't see a problem with influencing bullet choice.

I have shot 4 oryx. One may have been shot with a 7mm, but I think they were all taken with a .338 Win using 225 grain Hornady bullets.

I keep a log of game shot, but I don't have it available right now. suffice to say, I think a .338 win is just about perfect.

If I were the lucky hunter there is no doubt that I would be shooting 225 grain North Forks through my rifle, if they shot well in my rifle. "You can shoot anything you pick up, regardless of size, with practice.

I killed my oryx on White Sands with a .280 Rem using 150gr. Nosler Partitions. One shot kill at 125 yds. No problems.

I also advise the 210 Partition. I'll even give a head start on the load, somewheres between 71-72 gr of IMR 4350. I use this load exclusively and it's murder on huge bull elk, literally knocks them down plus gives me .75 MOA groups at 3050 fps from my 26" barrel.

I love the 338 and use it for most of my hunting. I've had great success with the 210 grain Nosler, haven't recovered a bullet yet. My handloads scoot out the barrel at 2900fps.

I also have an accurate load for 225 grain Noslers at 2800 fps, but haven't shot anything with them.

I'd say either bullet would do the trick just fine.

The 210 grain Nosler is a killing machine, and the only animal in North America that I'd feel the need for a heavier bullet is Brown Bear.

I used the Federal 250 grain Nosler partition on Gemsbok and it worked well, shot more than a few Kudu with the 225 grain Hornady ammo, reloads + factory, had no such problems.

I myself is not so fond of the silvertips in 200 grain in the 338, wil rather try the 210 grain noslers or the other 225 grain bullets

One more vote for Barnes X 225 gr., knocked my Gemsbok flat never took a step. Love that 338.

I just used my 338 Mag with 210 TSX on Gemsbok and would recommend them again.

I have shot a lot of Gemsbok with the 210 Nosler and the 250 Nosler in a .338 Win. It is all the gun you will ever need for Gemsbok...I would be very careful about not using a premium bullet such as a Nosler or Northfork on Gemsbok, they are tough and thick skinned, your choice is not one that I would recommend...

If you hunting lowveld then the 300 gr. Woodliegh would be my hands down choice, in highveld I'll take the 210 Nosler...

I used my 300 Win Mag on 2 Gemsbok and they went right down. If I were useing my 338 it would be with the 230 gr. Failsafe loads. I have taken Elk, 3 Bear, Boar, Moose, and a Huge Asian Buffalo and have yet to recover a bullet.
Everything I have shot but the Buff was one shot and down.

Hawkeye47

I saw the shots on the buff, about a 3 inch group right on the shoulder. One would have killed him fine, but no use taking chances with buff.

Gemsbok are easy animals to kill, with a well-placed shot from a premium bullet. I would never use a 200 gr. Ballistic Tip on them.

I have seen a few shot, including my own, and like all other instances, it comes down to shot placement with the right bullet.

Mine was shot through the top of the heart at 135 yards, using a 180gr. TBBC from a .300WSM (MV:about 3000fps). Bang-stagger-fall.

Sometimes, I think that we over-exaggerate how tough these animals really are...and a behind the shoulder shot is really a gut shot or a spine shot is really a top of hump- flesh shot, hence why they end up needing multiple shots to finally kill them.

All that to say, have him use ANY premium (northfork, TBBC, X) bullet (From 185gr to 225gr) that shoots well in his rifle and make sure he shoots it in the 8"x8" VITAL zone slightly lower than midline and behind the shoulder and that Gemsbok is dead!

Heck, our PH uses a 7mm Mauser and 140gr. non-premium bullets to cull Gemsbok for biltong. He has shot over 40 of them that way, all one shot.

A 300 WM shooting a 180 Ballistic SilverTip will drop a mature Alaskan bull moose at 200 yards. Load up some Partitions or Failsafes or TSX bullets and you'll have no problem.

I used the 225 Accubond in my .338 in Africa last year. I killed my Gemsbok pretty dead. Do a search on Accubond Bullet performance and you'll likely see my posts with photos of the bullets. I have some video of them smoking a zebra etc. too.

quote:

Sometimes, I think that we over-exaggerate how tough these animals really are...and a behind the shoulder shot is really a gut shot or a spine shot is really a top of hump- flesh shot, hence why they end up needing multiple shots to finally kill them.

I couldn't agree more... That has to be one of themost sensible things I have read on this board.

Providing the guy behind the gun is able to accurately shoot a suitable calibre at sensible ranges, and knows the vital zone he'll have a dead beastie for his tea....

The first deer I ever shot was a 130lb Fallow which dropped on the spot. It was a terrible shot that happened to clip the spine, 6" too high...

Say what you want, but unless someone here has shot 5 gemsbok (in other words, more than me) and disagrees (in which case I would reconsider my opinion), gemsbok are tougher than most animals. Zebras are tough. Elk are tough.

Moose soak up lead but they are not tough. Niether are caribou. Deer certainly are not. In my experience, not all animals die as easy as others.

I have only shot two Cape buffalo and both died with one shot. From that small bit of experience, I could conclude buffalo die easy. Since I am by nature a curious person, I guess I will have to go back to Africa and find out.

Hi John,
I have watched the video of that Buff kill dozens of times and still get goose bumps when I hear the crack of the shot and the slap of the impact. I can't wait to get back down to Argentina and try those Geese.

Hawkeye47