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| WSJ Story on Long Range Hunting | Login/Join |
| one of us |
I was backpacking in the Grand Canyon and just read my weekend Wall St. Journal. Had a story about long range hunting. Not very good; basically said you could buy technology to include reading the wind. | ||
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| one of us |
Technology doesn't make a shooter as both you and I know.The term "All the gear and no idea" springs to mind. | |||
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It's not the quality or truth of the article that matters, it's the public perception of it. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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Hey, not to hijack my own thread, but how was the stalking season this year? We had a great time last year. Hunted in AK this year - just like Scotland except you don't get to go to a hotel to change into dry clothes and have a pint. | |||
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The average reader will interpret it as "long range target practice at live animals". Truthfully, that is how I generally see it myself. Like Griff said above, "All the gear and no idea".  "The difference between adventure and disaster is preparation." "The problem with quoting info from the internet is that you can never be sure it is accurate" Abraham Lincoln | |||
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Just an opinion, nothing more. We have enough enemies concerning hunting as it is, do we REALLY want to keep on finding reasons to divide hunters into groups. There is a bigger issue at stake here. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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| One of Us |
Doesn't matter. The truth is more fleeting these days than ever before. Perception is more important than substance to the average dumb American (and every other dumb world citizen for that matter). Fuck em all.....those of us with common sense need to stay the course for the good of mankind. The media has lost its way. | |||
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| One of Us |
Can't I buy technology to enable me to shoot at targets a long ways away and increase the probability to hit it? I would like to read the article, maybe someone could link us to the story. Also is the story negative because the information is out in the public or because as hunters and hopefully the perception non hunters have is that there is an almost intimate experience between the hunter and the quarry, And shooting animals along ways away to some might seem--well like cheating. Like FOXNews likes to say, "We report, you decide." It's up to hunters to help people make good decisions. | |||
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| One of Us |
If a person is capable of doing it fine.Me,I do not think of it as hunting.Just shooting. | |||
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| One of Us |
Ring Around The Rosy!!!!! Just another divisive issue, to get hunters to fighting among themselves. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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+1 Mike | |||
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Shooting an animal at close range from a tree stand or blind makes them just as dead as if they were shot at 2000 yards. What's the difference?  . | |||
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| One of Us |
For starters, the higher possibility of a wounded and lost animal. Mike | |||
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| One of Us |
If not an quick kill, I would think it would be much easier to lose an animal in thick brush and woods, where one would use a stand or blind, than in open terrain at a distance were it could be observed moving for hundreds of yards after the shot. It also begs the question, "At what exact yardage does the ethical shot transform into the unethical shot?" . | |||
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Ethical range is where a hunter has practiced at to make a lethal shot the first time every time.keep in mind there are no guarantees in hunting at any range. -------------------- THANOS WAS RIGHT! | |||
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| One of Us |
Don't get me wrong, RMiller, I like your answer, but if a hunter practices at 200 yards would it be unethical for him to take a shot at 300 or 400? And if he can only shoot 6" groups at 200 yards can his buddy who shoots 2" groups be an ethical hunter at greater range? . | |||
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| one of us |
I have no problem with long range hunting. The definition of long range changes with the passage of time. With open sights it was one thing. With the old scopes it was another, now with range finders, better scopes, better rifles and ammo, it has been another. It will always evolve. Same issue we argue about with traditional vs recurve vs compound vs crossbow. Some just always want to squash progress in any shape or form. If it gets more people involved in the hunting sport, I am all for it. We need people coming to the sport, not leaving because of the bickering. I will go with RMiller:
After last weekend when I barely scraped the underside of a doe when I did not know my scope had changed to put the bullet 4" lower than the week before with travel, I would say making sure your equipment is all on at the point the trigger is pulled would be hugely important. Larry "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading" -- Thomas Jefferson | |||
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| One of Us |
As usual the "E" word has entered the equation in about the length of time I figured it would. The problem that arises when the "E" word/concept is introduced to ANY subject pertaining to hunting, is that there is NO universally accepted/across the board standard, that ALL hunters are held to or agree upon. Personally, I do not agree with "Long Range" hunting, but that is simply one individuals preference, other peoples mileage will vary. Personally I do not agree with some individuals beliefs concerning the "E" word/concept when it is used in conjunction with issues concerning hunting because there is no absolute/set standard for all situations, and as such, hunters as a group have to at some point stop pointing fingers at each other and condemning others for having a different set of Ethical standards/beliefs. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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I really don`t care how anyone else hunts."I" like to get as close as possible.That is the challenge I set for myself.Ethics is just a word that some use to describe their idea of how to hunt right or wrong.Ethics has nothing to do with hunting .Hunting is about getting meat for some or bone for others.There are certain types of hunting I will not engage in.That does not mean they are right or wrong.Just my personal opinion that I do not force on anyone else.OB | |||
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Let's all go out and get a 30-30, and end the debate! | |||
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I read WSJ pretty much every day and have looked at last weekend and this weekend and do not see. I would like to read it. Note, I just get the online edition. Zim 2006 Zim 2007 Namibia 2013 Brown Bear Togiak Nat'l Refuge Sep 2010 Argentina 2019 RSA 2023 Tanzania 2024 SCI Life Member USMC | |||
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| one of us |
Here is a link http://www.wsj.com/articles/hu...y-snipers-1481316596 NRA Life Member, ILL Rifle Assoc Life Member, Navy | |||
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One of Us |
The link only give you the first few sentances of the article. If you want to read the entire article you have to subscribe to their publication. Tom Z NRA Life Member | |||
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| one of us |
try the first link on this google search https://www.google.com/search?...ng&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 NRA Life Member, ILL Rifle Assoc Life Member, Navy | |||
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| One of Us |
Yep!! We are in the middle of an epidemic of outright lying, lying, and more lying!! Our media, schools, and politicians have brought it on. | |||
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| One of Us |
Thanks for the link. I read it and I think some have lost their way. As with any article like this there is always justification for what someone does rightly or wrongly. I am very firm on this one, and if that is how you hunt, you don't sit at the same table with me. The one guy they referenced I would like to see if he weighs 300 lbs rides in side by side to top of drainage gets out and sets up. I'm the same age as that guy. I train, practice and hunt to get as close as possible. I think it's a form of laziness. Suggestion: Apply to Academi, Triple Canopy to do long range overwatch if they can pass the rigors! Zim 2006 Zim 2007 Namibia 2013 Brown Bear Togiak Nat'l Refuge Sep 2010 Argentina 2019 RSA 2023 Tanzania 2024 SCI Life Member USMC | |||
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One of Us |
I'm not interested in this type of equipment nor is extreme long range shooting my style of hunting. But is it really such a big 'threat to hunting' overall? The rifles and sighting systems are expensive, far too expensive for almost all but the most well to do to afford and the price won't be dropping dramatically anytime in the foreseeable future because the production volume will be low. On top of that the ammunition is expensive, custom loaded. After spending all that money you'll have a system that's only good for one thing - long range shots at stationary targets. It's very unlikely that you'll want to pack this around all day and the system won't offer much of an advantage in the conditions most game is taken - shots under 200 yards in cover. This is just (another) toy for rich and extreme gadget-freaks to play with. No longer Bigasanelk | |||
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| One of Us |
Well, all depends on what any individual personally interprets as a "Threat". First, because of the individual concepts of Ethical/Unethical hunting practices, there is the threat of a growing division among hunters. As you have seen on here more than once, hunters are not known for being able to stand united on many issues related to hunting. Second public opinion concerning hunting is not all that great right now among various groups for various reasons. To many people, Hunters and Non-Hunters, this issue takes Hunters out of the realm of being conscientious conservationists abiding by the "Rules???" of Fair Chase, and moves them into the area of being a "sniper", where the concept of "Fair Chase" is not really part of the picture. So is there a "Big" threat to hunting maybe not, but in reality do we need any more little threats? Reality is, this is another of those issues that divide hunters, can we really afford to keep finding issues that divide us as a group. Can hunters as a group expect each other to support practises that they do not agree with, no. There are more than enough differences of opinion among us as a group concerning various hunting methods/practices, to me it is when a particular practice/method gains the scrutiny of the Public in general that I begin to worry about its effect on hunting. We know the anti hunting groups are too entrenched in their beliefs and they will not change, my concern is alienating more of the Public concerning hunting and hunters attitudes toward the game they are hunting. I guess it all depends on how each of us feel about hunting and how we believe we should conduct ourselves. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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One of Us |
Another thing that adds to the division or rift that I see right here on AR is geography. People from the east or midwest or rainforests of Oregon, Washington can't fathom the need to shoot beyond 300 yards let alone in most cases 100 yards and they see anything beyond "their" shooting limits as unethical. In the wide open west shots can be much further than the rest of the country "approves". When people say "why shoot an elk at 450 yards you should just get closer" then I know they have never hunted in the big open mountainous canyonlands of the west or they would know that by the time you get over "there" where the deer and elk were it can be hours and they are long gone. For example I look at my brothers Billy Goat, shot was only 270 yards or so but it took 2 hours to get to the Goat after the shot not trying to be quiet. My opinion is that people should mind there own business a little especially where they have no experience. If your entire life you have shot deer under 200 yards or from a box stand over a feeder doesn't mean you should dictate based on that experience how others should hunt, it's not your business and you are not qualified to limit someone else's freedoms. Sorry but that's how I feel. I myself am not a long distance shooter however I practice on my range at my house for shots that make me capable of taking a practiced 450 yard shot, this is not long distance to some but four times further than some others think is ethical. I don't care what distance people decide to shoot I just hope they have practiced at that range and follow up all shots to retrieve game that may or may not have been hit. | |||
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But Snell, A lot of these guys think a 400 shot is stunt shooting Just get closer.......funny Mike Dettorre needs to add another AR lesson to his sig line ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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| One of Us |
Point some are missing is that most of us are not concerned about 400 to 500 yard shots. In the actual context of things 500 yards is NOT a Long Range shot. Long range shooting in most shooters opinion does not start until you pass 600 yards and for some 800 yards and farther is only considered Long Range. I find it funny that some on here seem to honestly believe that 400 to 500 yards is Long Range. In the world of Long Range shooters, such people would be laughed at. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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| One of Us |
Bullshit.I have been hunting Montana ,Wyoming,Kansas,South Dakota for over 40 years and have always managed to get with in 300 yards if not closer to game.I also hunt Wi. and the UP where you could get shots to 1,000 yards if you wanted to.  | |||
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| One of Us |
I've hunted Wy for 15 straight years and CO for a couple before that for antelope, mulies, and elk. I have taken exactly 1 shot beyond 300 yards and that one wasn't really needed but I'd been practicing using my scope plex as a range finder. I ranged the antelope at 400 yards. He as 384 long steps, counted in both directions. To me the challenge is to get close. I do wonder if the hunters that shoot at game at extended range and have it run off go to the spot to check for blood, etc. I do wonder if they can even find the spot where it stood. No need to reply since even the ones that don't will say they do. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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| One of Us |
So what was you're animal tally for those 17 seasons? You state one shot? ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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| One of Us |
I figured you'd ask something stupid like that. The tally is a whole bunch and not a single animal lost. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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| One of Us |
You laid the small statistics out........now please, by all means I'm more than interested ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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| One of Us |
The one that takes the cake is where a hunter took an elk with an in line muzzleloader...at 600 yards with a rig built by one of the super accurate long range rifle builders! I just have to ask..what the fuck was the point? It was brushy canyon country..they could have EASILY gotten closer. MUCH CLOSER! All the rave now is these super accurate long range rifle systems......WHY? You are supposed to be HUNTING...not SNIPING. In almost all of these instances that I have seen so far..the hunter could have easily gotten within 200-300 yards but chose to show off with 600-800 yard shots. Too bad you only see the ones that were successful. Hey, the anti-hunters don't need any ammunition to use against us..we provide our own. Us as hunters are often times NOT very good stewards of our past-time hobbies for sure. This is just another one. NO need for this whatsoever...period! More stunts by stuntsmen with sophisticated equipment...but stunts just the same. I have a corvette that can do 180mph easily...but should I on the roadways? Would I be justified to be wreckless just because I can? How would I be viewed by other motorists? By people other than fellow motorists? There you go....the SAME point. It's all about bragging rights and stunts! Look at me! I shot that bull elk at 800 yards!!! | |||
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| One of Us |
That's why I think the regulations of some states that allow in-line muzzle loaders for separate muzzle loader seasons are ridiculous. Those shooters are not really at a disadvantage so it defeats the purpose of the separate season. I think those states that have "primitive" rifle seasons and only allow traditional caplock and flintlock rifles are doing it right. Woodrow said, "You are supposed to be HUNTING...not SNIPING." Well, let's look at the origin of the word "sniping": "According to most sources, the origin of the term sniper was associated with one’s ability to shoot a “snipe.” By the late 18th century the word ‘sniper’ was being used in letters sent home by English officers serving in India, some of whom took to referring to a day’s rough shooting as ‘going out sniping’. The snipe is a small, fast-flying game bird with mottled black and brown plumage and a particularly erratic, twisting flight that make it difficult to see and even more difficult to hit. It took a skilled sportsman with a flintlock gun to bring down a snipe in flight. Such an accomplished shot was regarded as above average and inevitably during the 18th century the term ‘snipe shooting’ was simplified to ‘sniping.’" . | |||
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| One of Us |
It seems wrong to me and I would never do it. Especially because of what I consider the reliance on technology in place of hunting skills. I am aware that some of you are skilled long range shots and I admire that skill. I just think paper would be a more appropriate target. Now this all depends on the ethical standards passed on to you by friends and family. Everyone was raised differently so everyone has a different opinion. In my family, tree stands were cheating and you still hunted deer. On the ground moving slowly with the deer given every chance to use its senses against you. But that was my situation and how I was raised. I do realize that method is an eastern, woodsy kind of hunting and it does not translate well to the open country out west. Long shots are a necessity out west but computer aimed shots are not. You have your opinion and I have mine so don't write an angry reply. After all, those are my ethical standards. Not yours. | |||
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| One of Us |
One other point people seem to be overlooking, or simply ignoring, is that the average hunter knows their individual limitations and makes decisions as to whether or not to take a shot, based on those limitations. The folks doing the "Long Range Hunting" are purposely setting up to take shots at game animals at ranges well beyond what the majority of hunters would even think of attempting. The issue becomes one of do hunters as a group defend Any and All forms of "Hunting", or do we continue to split into sub groups supporting only the forms of hunting we believe is proper. Personally I think extended range shooting should be left in the realm of punching holes in paper, ringing a metal gong or taking out terrorists, but when game animals are involved I think we need to have a little more respect for the animals and the concept of quick/clean kills. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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