Here is a copy of my email to the Virginia DIGF. If you do not approve of there tacticks let them know at:
dgifweb@dgif.state.va.us

To whom it may concern:
It has come to my attention through various hunting forums on the internet that Virginia DIGF is allowing hunters in VA to harvest Elk that may have wandered across the boarders from NC, KY, TN, WV. (states that have reintroduced Elk to their habitat)
The way I understand it is that VA doesn't want to reintroduce Elk to our state at this time. So lets just eliminate the ones we find in our state during the "Deer" Season, is the reasoning behind this provision.
I for one think this is very irresponsible of the VA DIGF. It undermines the steps and actions taken by neighboring states to reintroduce Elk (not to mention the vast amounts of money both public & private funds that will be wasted) In my opinion this move by VA DIGF is disrespectful and should be re-evaluated.
This is one VA hunter that will not help you out with this ill thought up plan.

A Virginia Hunter: Mark Griffis

That's it! I'm going 'deer hunting' in VA, specifically along the borders with NC, KY,
TN, and WV.

George

------------------
Shoot straight, shoot often, but by all means, use enough gun!

George:
I don't live too far from you. We can go together

------------------
Jay
"For God and Country"

I see some are making light of this (and thats ok) but please realize that none of the Elk numbers in any of these states are even close to huntable populations. Not sure if that came across in my original thread.
Take care:
Mark

Mark G,

I agree with you 100%. I sent my opinion to Virginia, but I do not know how much weight it will carry (since I am not a Virginian!). Perhaps we forumites opposed to this practice can send in one signed petition. As well as, our individual e-mails.

Todd E

Mark

e-mail is on it way. I agree with you 100%

The VA dgif got back to me via e-mail, here is what they had to say:
Dear Mr. Griffis:
Thank you for your email concerning your opinion on elk hunting in VA. I respect your opinion but would like to clarify a few points that you make. You indicate that you feel we are "irresponsible" in allowing the taking of elk and our actions undermine the steps taken by our neighboring states "not to mention the vast amounts of money both public and private funds that will be wasted". What you may not be aware of is that Kentucky's restoration program was done without any consultation with their neighboring state agencies even though the release sites were as close as 40miles to the state borders and that the ultimate goal was to have 7400 elk in the restoration are. I would question if this was a responsible move on Kentucky's part. Also you might not be aware that Kentucky's restoration zone is set for 14 counties, all along Virginia's western border, and that outside of this restoration zone KY has set the following protocol for handling elk: In state:"for those present in an area outside of the restoration and buffer zones a reasonable attempt at relocation will be made, if these fail the animal may be destroyed; if depredating, elk causing damage may be euthanized immediately by field personnel" Outside of state: "Elk located out of state may be relocated at the discretion of elk project personnel. However, due to the extreme costs of locating and recovering these animals our usual response will be to euthanize or assist state agency in euthanizing the animal". Euthanizing in this case would not be by hunters.

Our concerns are not that different than Kentucky's as demonstrated by their protocol. Our primary concerns about elk in Virginia relate to the potential for damage to personal property and the potential importation of a disease harmful to domestic livestock and white-tailed deer. Diseases of concern are bovine tuberculosis, brucellosis, chronic wasting disease, and Johne's disease.

The Department will be studying the advisability of elk restoration in Virginia, but only restoration conducted by this department. Until the department and Board makes a decision on this question, the department intends to prevent the immigration of Kentucky elk into this state. We consider Virginia, as does Kentucky, out of Kentucky's restoration zone.

We plan to continue working with RMEF and other state, federal and private entities on assessing the question of restoring elk in Virginia.

I might also point out that West Virginia has not restored elk as you indicated. They will be doing a feasibility study to ascertain if there are areas in their state that might support elk, as the Virginia feasibility did. Elk restoration is not something that should be done in a vacuum and all aspects of the actions taken by an agency must be clearly thought out and shared with all who will be impacted. We do not feel that this was done in the Kentucky's restoration project. It is unfortunate that our agency is being blamed for another's action.

I hope this has clarified some points on the department's position regarding elk restoration. Thank you for your interest in this issue.

Robert Ellis
Assistant Director, Wildlife Division.

Also, Here was my Reply to the e-mail from Robert @ dgif:
Robert, thank you for your response, and yes it has shed some light on issues I was not aware of. However, I would still Strongly urge the VA dgif to possibly create a "Tolerance" zone for the KY herd. I realize that VA chose not to reintroduce Elk at this time, but a limited zone of tolerance seems reasonable. If they wander to close to our live stock and populated areas, hey, give me a call I would be happy to help you out with eliminating a "tasty problem" LOL. I for one would love to see free ranging Elk in VA someday,
and I understand the issues of disease and other hazzards. I hope they can be worked out in the Future.
Best wishes:

Thanks,

Mark Griffis

That reply is a crock and a classic example of the "not invented here" mentality. He apparently has his panties in a wad because the Va Dept of Game people were not consulted and kowtowed to when the sovereign state of Kentucky decided to release some elk 40 MILES away from Va. He and all the people who came up with the idea of shooting wanderers, unless they are endangering people, are idiots, and should be fired.

I'm new here and I only began deer hunting last year so I may be sticking foot in where it don't belong but this effects me directly.
I live in one of the Virginia county's that borders KY. in fact an elk was checked in less than 1 mile from my home last deer season, (4yr old cow). we see them all the time but there is vary little love for the elk in this area. we are so over run with white tail deer that I can't even raise a garden! local farmers I've talked to remember when black leg wiped out the elk that were here before and lots of them lost herds of cattle that uncle sam put down. black leg didn't get all the elk, over a 1000 were killed by paid hunters and some were even poisoned. the deer population was nearly wiped out in the area as well.
my biggest concern is the lack of food for the the elk and deer, there's not enough for the deer as is. ever seen what a 100 deer can do to a corn or rye field in just a few days? this area just can't support any more game. under different circumstances I would applaud the elk being here but not like this.
if KY could teach the elk to read maps we could all get along till then everyone loses.

Shoot the elk. Yes, they were natives to the area once,but that was many moons ago. I believe that in another 10-15 years they will be considered nuisances-much like the reintroduced coyotes down south.These animals have the potential to introduce disease to livestock and whitetails. Also, the Appalachian Mtns are much more densely populated than the western US-these animals will cause major headaches for motorists-not to mention farmers. We had several escape from a private ranch in north GA-the GaDNR encouraged hunters to take them. Several were hit by autos also.

Yes the elk can potentially carry a whole host of diseases. So can deer. Best I can tell we ought to declare open season on all wild game. If we eliminated all the wild game there would be more grass for domestic livestock like cows,sheep and goats to eat. That is the way to go. OHHH Yeahh. We tried that already in the 1870-1880's. Sure got rid of those pesky buffaloes though.
I personally think it is rediculous for virginia to declare open season on another states herd because they couldn't read the county lines. I hope in our lifetime there will be a loose knit Appalachian herd of elk that range from NY to GA. Tags available and all. Good hunting "D"

Gone Hunting, Where are you located. I am looking for a place where meat deer are plentiful and they need some help thinning them. I live in western NC and it might not be too long of a drive to help the fine citizens of VA out of depredations of deer. I won't be shooting any elk though. Any help as to connections for hunting land would be fine to e-mail me with. Thanks "D"

Mark G.

I am very disappointed in the arrogant, supercilious attitude of the Virginia Game Officials and also of the Kentucky Game Officials. It is unfortunate that they do not communicate effectively.

However, that is beside the point in the long run. The sad facts are, as have already been pointed out previously, that we are living in a world that is hell bent for a major catastrophe. And the problem is that humans are breeding like lemings and overpopulating the planet everywhere.

It is just simply shoveling sand against the tide to keep reintroducing species and at the same time multiply humans at a rate that is taking up land and habitat at an ever increasing rate.

The same story is repeated everywhere. Farmers want to farm and the game wants habitat. There just isn't enough for everyone.

Kendall Dace

I live in western NC and it might not be too long of a drive to help the fine citizens of VA out of depredations of deer. I won't be shooting any elk though.

i live in buchanan co. no national forrest here all the land belongs to citizens or coalminning companys. i know of no one who will allow you to hunt here if you don't agree to kill the elk. it is possiable to get premits to hunt the minning lands but it takes 1 to 2 years to get them. i'll check around and see what i can find out.

------------------
born on a mountian, raised in a cave, hunting and fishing is all i crave!

Mr. Tibbe you fail to take into account the many years of hard work the VA fish and game dept. put into rebuilding the deer herds east of the blueridge mts. until 5 yrs ago there was no deer season in my area. now as I write this I can see a doe and 2 fawns in my orchard eating apples. I applaud VA fish & game.
In my view it is/was vary childish for KY to stock elk without researching the impact to their neighbors in VA, TN, WV and OH.
you are right it's not the elks fought it's we the people who are destroying the planet.

------------------
born on a mountian, raised in a cave, hunting and fishing is all i crave!

The diseases the elk are quoted as being carriers of all all (with one exception) domestic cattle diseases. In other words, the cattle give the disease to the elk, who may in turn pass it along to another farmer's stock.

Unfortunately, farmers will always annihilate wild game so that they do not suffer any loss of of income. I have seen this time and again. Before everyone get upset I have several family members who are farmers. They are very poor. With their new pick-up (tax write off), new $125,000 tractors (plural and again tax write off) and $250,000 combine (again tax write off). They also bring in a fair profit raising hogs and cattle. As with all businesses however, they would very much like to maximize their profits. Therefore, the wildlife must be slaughtered so as not to eat a few hundred dollars worth of corn. Keep in mind that corn is only worth about $2.50 / bushell (good price) and they will get between 100 and 160 bushells / acre. A bushell for those who do not know is about 50 pounds of corn. An acre then will provide around 5000 - 8000 pounds of corn. That is alot of deer feed worth only a few hundred dollars. It does however reduce the total profits of the farm. Grain farmers only make out in volume. If you are a small operation you better get a day job!

In my opinion the elk have more right to the land than the usurping farmers. Give the elk a chance. In many states with reintroductions the farmers are compensated by the state for elk damage to crops. Unfortunately, the farmers do not get the money they seem to feel they are entitled to. This is because the value of the crops destroyed doesn't measure up to the inflated numbers farmers like to ask for.

In many cases the family farm is not a viable business anymore. Some individuals simply will not accept this unpleasant truth.

Todd E

>In many cases the family farm is not a viable business anymore. Some individuals simply will not accept this unpleasant truth.

I am one of them! family farms aren't businesses, it's a way of life. not trying to get rich, just tying to get by.
no big farms here! most farms here are less than 100 acres. a few pounds of weight on the cattle or a few 100 bussels of corn means profit or loss!
as i said it's not the elks fought they were here first. but if farmers don't raise the food what will all the city folk eat.
i'm not a farmer just a hillbilly coal minner that lives to hunt.
enough said i'll let it be!

------------------
born on a mountian, raised in a cave, hunting and fishing is all i crave!

[This message has been edited by gone hunting (edited 09-01-2001).]

Gone Hunting,

It has to be more than a few hundred bushells of corn. If that is all the profit the farmer is making he will be living on a few hundred dollars all year! Also, if your cattle are over or under weight the processor will dock you a considerable portion of you $.50 - $.65 per pound on the hoof. Again you will not be in business very long. Anyway, since when do they feed out cattle in Virginia on grass. This is a very slow and inefficient means of feeding out livestock; therefore, you are going to lose your ass! The biggest expense in raising livestock now days is the antibiotics required to keep them healthy since they are typicaly confined to large fenced in feed lots which are full of manure.

If you are trying to survive as a grain farmer on anything less than 800 - 1000 acres I wish you good luck (your screwed buddy).

So quit whining about the wildlife eating / detroying all the farmers! Simply isn't true. Just like coyotes kill cattle all the time. I lost too many big dogs to cows as a kid to believe that BS.

Todd E

Tood E:

Your knowledge of cattle raising is woefully inadequate, the biggest direct expense of raising cattle is one small item.....food in the winter. Vaccinations and antibiotics(if they need them) are a minor part of it.

However, you do have some very valid points about the farmers and ranchers "poor-mouthing" and they all rant and rave about the government but many of them try to be first in line for all the hand outs tha government gives.

As far as the ridiculous argument that the country side is overrun with deer and there is no browse left for the elk, sounds like a serious breakdown on the part of the Va Dept of Game(or whatever they call themselves). If it truly is a serious problem, one or two long seasons, with liberal doe and buck limits will solve that.

you just don't get it do you!
no matter if you yankees like it or not elk and yotes will be shot on site. we've even got a bounty of $50 each on the yotes. if you don't like it let them all move in with you.
nuff said
i'm out of here
you guys are stange

Gatogordo:

As regards deer population in Virginia, I have no direct experience there but a friend, A Texan, Jim Seidel, hunts there at a camp.

He told me there are so many deer in his area they are everywhere. The allowable take, which I can't precisely remember, is something like 4 deer and there is some kind of provision that you can just keep on getting permitted and keep on shooting and taking. Perhaps some of our Virginians can spell it out for us.

Deer are very adaptable. They will live in suburban and the perimiters of urban areas. They hide in open farm country very effectively. Compared to elk, they are diminutive in size. A deer will weigh 150 pounds whereas an elk will weigh 6 times that - 900 pounds.

In some states the deer are so abundant that they are truly a nuisance, a pest and a real danger. In addition to the tick infestations, they browse on expensive landscaping shrubbery and worst of all there are thousands of auto accidents resulting in astronomical sums of money paid out in claims and numerous deaths due to deer vehicle collisions.

Deer will acclimate very quickly to humans and human activity. They, being nocturnal, will browse on the shoulders of Interstate highways with vehicles passing within a few feet at speeds of 65 miles per hour and higher.

As regards the reintroduction of elk, I am personally all for it. However, there will be people who are all for it and people who are against it. The tree huggers will love it and protest if anyone tries to kill elk. The people who are suffering property damage will not be happy.

In some states, a farmer may shoot deer 24 hours @ day ( that does mean at night ) 365 days @ year if he sustains crop damage.

Regarding game crossing state lines, the snowmobilers in yellowstone Park make trails that the Buffalo follow into Montana, leaving the park. The buffalo are shot immediately.

I find it a little bit hard to believe that all of Virginias neighbors have been kept in the dark about Kentuckys elk reintroduction program.

Kendall Dace

47 deer that we could count in the orchard last evening. deer permits are avaliable to farmers 365 days a year. in some areas hunters can buy unlimited tags during deer season. my friend that got me into deer hunting took 11 deer all legal last year. 7 nice bucks. 1 was 14 point non typical.

$50 bounty on coyotes! Wow what are they doing in Virginia eatingthe natives! Do you get to sell the pelt also?

This entire discussion is about the land owner getting to shoot whatever steps onto their property just because it is there peroid! The buffalo in Montana, the elk now in Virginia, etc, etc. I have personally slaughter many many deer in the name of crop damage. Not to mention pheasants that we shot from the tractors (with permission of the state DNR) because after all they would simply be run through the mowing machine anyway. Did we do this because the deer were destroying our crops and causing us to lose our way of life...HELL NO! We did because we wanted to shoot deer and they gave us a legally acceptable excuse.

If a state has too many deer then they should issue more tags and/or lengthen there deer seasons. If deer are that plentiful in Virginia maybe I will come on down and help thin the herds. What is the price of a nonresident deer tag and how many can I get?

Please understand I am not a member of PETA. I simply hate the Bullsh*t that farmers spread about how wildlife destroys their livelihood; therefore, they should be allowed to kill everything in sight.

For the record, elk are not as adaptable as white tail deer in that they do not readily move into suburbia!

Also, be careful who you call a yankee. I may live in the north, but I come from very old southern (deep south) family.

Todd E