quote:

When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere.

How many Guides/Outfitters/Booking Agents require clients to be NRA members before booking them for a hunt?

Never heard of such a thing CHC! This whole deal about boycotting companies is rather ridiculous IMHO since there are probably so many that give to various organizations we don't know about or that we don't like that there wouldn't be much of a choice when buying anything. This quote you posted is way out since the NRA essentially exists to protect gun owner's rights and there are many that don't hunt or even believe in hunting.

quote:

How many Guides/Outfitters/Booking Agents require clients to be NRA members before booking them for a hunt?

In my experience, none.

Personally, I think it would be a ludicrous requirement. For one, just because someone isn't an NRA member doesn't mean they don't support the NRA or that they are anti-gun. A perfect example is an old fellow who had a hunting operation near the border for more than 30 years. He donated to banquets/fundraisers on a regular basis and sent the NRA a yearly check, but he refused to officially join because he hated junk mail and didn't like his name being on any "list".

I am waiting for one particular individual to respond to this!

I have my doubts concerning his being able to do that!

That individual will not respond, but at some point hunters are going to have to unite and understand that we do not ALL view things in the same manner.

CHC,

I appreciate your desire that hunters unite. I am not sure "baiting" another hunter into an argument furthers your objective.

My thoughts on this...

quote:

Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
CHC,

I appreciate your desire that hunters unite. I am not sure "baiting" another hunter furthers your objective.

Mic Drop!

See below!

George

Topgun 06, the NRA's articles of incorporation show it's primary purpose is to get people to shoot, and learn to do it right. They were not involved in politics and such at all , till about 30 years ago, but have now gone more to that, and less to competition shooting etc. They seem to be doing a good job on the fight against antis. While I don't think anyone going to screen hunters who want to set up a hunt for NRA membership, I can see clubs, requiring members to be NRA members. I want the NRA go get back to more of it's basic reason for being. I do think anyone who has a firearm needs to realize, it's because the NRA and such organizations out there keeping antis from taking their firearms. But too many people don't want to ante up a few $ a year to belong. When I joined the NRA, we only had 600K members. I sat the phones trying to increase the membership, and today, we supposedly have 5-6 million. Those folks need to vote ONE reason, their guns and get rid of the antis. Unfortunately, too many have other reasons, like some pet project, rather than their rights, and vote for that.

should mention, I for one think that outfitters etc wanting hunters should be NRA members. If they not, they not really caring about the hunters and shooters, only their pocket book, and don't deserve our business. Have know gun makers (individuals) who aren't NRA members because they stupid enough to think the liberal left no serious in it attempts to outlaw guns. When we find someone like that, we advise the shooters to not patronize them. Back in 68, I had a local gun dealer say he like the 68 law they were trying to pass, outlawing interstate sales of guns. Will mean the "have" to come to me. I put that word out and he was out of business in 6 months, as no one went to him.

I guess this thread is supposed to be sort of like our Hunting equivalent to the gay couple wedding cake lol....
No outfitter would turn down a hunters money I don't believe for an NRA membership or not.

To answer Mike's comment, I am not baiting anyone, regardless of what he may believe.

I am merely pointing out that as a group I do not see why hunters have to "Find" reasons to create lines of division.

In doing a little looking before giving this response, on one site there were statistics for the number of licensed hiunters in America from 2008 thru Spring 2017. At the low end during the Autumn of 2012 supposedly there were 16.03 million licensed hunters in America. At the high end supposedly in the Spring vof 2010 there were 19.25 million licensed hunters in America.

Now if those numbers are even remotely accurate, that shows there are a lot more hunters than NRA members and it is a known fact that not all NRA members hunt.

Since my first Guided Elk Hunt in 1992 all the way thru the latest pig hunt I did with an Accurate Reloading member, whether as the guide or the client, I have never asked anyone nor have I ever been asked anything concerning membership in the NRA.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

I am merely pointing out that as a group I do not see why hunters have to "Find" reasons to create lines of division.

I agree wholeheartedly. There is enough divide and conquer out there as-is.

quote:

Originally posted by tysue:
Topgun 06, the NRA's articles of incorporation show it's primary purpose is to get people to shoot, and learn to do it right. They were not involved in politics and such at all , till about 30 years ago, but have now gone more to that, and less to competition shooting etc. They seem to be doing a good job on the fight against antis. While I don't think anyone going to screen hunters who want to set up a hunt for NRA membership, I can see clubs, requiring members to be NRA members. I want the NRA go get back to more of it's basic reason for being. I do think anyone who has a firearm needs to realize, it's because the NRA and such organizations out there keeping antis from taking their firearms. But too many people don't want to ante up a few $ a year to belong. When I joined the NRA, we only had 600K members. I sat the phones trying to increase the membership, and today, we supposedly have 5-6 million. Those folks need to vote ONE reason, their guns and get rid of the antis. Unfortunately, too many have other reasons, like some pet project, rather than their rights, and vote for that.

I know the original purpose of the NRA because I was in one of the first NRA sponsored hunter safety classes way back in the early 50s when I was just starting grade school. They still obviously have those programs, but over the decades since I took the course the NRA has become exactly what I stated and they are good at it. I do have a problem with you or anyone else saying that a person should belong to any certain organization or be boycotted by you or whomever your "we" meant in your other post!

quote:

Topgun 06, the NRA's articles of incorporation show it's primary purpose is to get people to shoot, and learn to do it right. They were not involved in politics and such at all , till about 30 years ago, but have now gone more to that, and less to competition shooting etc. They seem to be doing a good job on the fight against antis.

The anti-gun drum beat picked up about 30 years ago.

Dave

Honestly as a group we have more than our share of enemies wanting to restrict or limit or completely outlaw hunting.

Unfortunately, I feel that at some point in the not too distant future those trying to end hunting will succeed, and that is Sad.

I simply do not understand why so many folks, that possibly the Only thing they really have in common is a love for hunting, find it so easy to spew forth hate toward each other over minutia.

The more hunters/gun owners segregate themselves the easier it becomes for the groups wanting to take hunting and firearms away from us and we will lose in the end and there will be no one to blame but ourselves.

CHC,

You might consider "not attending all the arguments you are invited to" and "not promoting further arguments" which is what your OP does.

Best regards,

quote:

Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
CHC,

You might consider "not attending all the arguments you are invited to" and "not promoting further arguments" which is what your OP does.

Best regards,

Mike

I second that comment!

And both of you might consider why someone does something.

Why should any of us on this site put up with actions that are directed toward us, by individuals simply out of hatred?

Either of you care to answer that?

First off both of you need to understand this was not an

quote:

"not attending all the arguments you are invited to"

, this was/is a Personal Attack toward me by another member!!!!!

Would EITHER of you put up with that???? I seriously doubt it!

I am not asking anyone to agree with me, I am merely asking for a little honesty! Do either of you, if you have ever booked a hunt with a guide/outfitter asked if they were NRA members???

Just answer that if you WILL!!!!!

I see no one cares to answer, typical of some folks on this site.

They ASSume things are one way without finding out the truth!

The point is and will remain, each of us have the RIGHT to choose what organizations we want to belong too.

If you believe that everyone should belong to only the organizations YOU belong to, that is your prerogative,. but do not expect EVERYONE to believe the same way!

CHC,

I suggest you ponder the effectiveness and the significance of your more than 6+ posts a day for over 12 years straight.

Have a lovely evening.

What difference does it make to you as to how many posts/responses/comments I make?

Just answer that, If You Will! Somehow I doubt it.

You seem to be real quick at trying to tell others how they should act, so who put you in charge of interpreting who has and who doesn;t have First Amendment Rights?

This conversation deals with Personal Choice on a couple of issueas, why do you have a problem with that, since neither of them affect you in any way?

CHC---Sorry, but this is very typical of you and your posts. Why not just take the bull by the horns and say what it is to whomever you want to say it to if your OP was made for a specific person? Now you get your panties in a wad when that person doesn't respond on this thread and some of us have given their personal opinions and obviously you don't like what some have said. IMHO what Mike stated as far as post count does have a bearing because a good percentage of those number of posts is the same old shit about all of us should agree to keep hunting alive or it will die. Newsflash---Hunting is a long way from dying and there will be many disagreements on various things that come up in the hunting world. As long as they are discussed in a civil manner like adults IMHO that is good!

As per your typical responses Top Gun, you do not want to open your eyes to the fact that hunting is being threatened on several fronts, and in my opinion, and that is all it is an opinion, hunters as a group are all too often our worst enemy.

Look at your response, you state disagreements should be discussed in a civil manner but you rarely ever discuss anything in a civil manner.

Trying to silence someone because they see things differently from you accomplishes nothing.

If mine or anypone else's comments or opinions bother you so damn bad, Do Not read them.

I just happen to believe hunting is more endangered than some folks think. Is it going to end tomorrow, No. Is it going to end in 5 years. probably not.

10 to 20 years down the road, neither of us know either way.

I look at NRA as my leader when it comes to gun rights
As simple as that
They do tremendous amount of work behind the scenes that we will never see and that right there makes me NRA man to the core
At same time, I never heard anyone saying what Randall mentioned

Milan, do you believe in the concept of Freedom Of Choice by the individual?

That is one of the aspects of this discussion, along with the growing cancer of extreme partisanship in this country.

Just because a person belongs to or doesn't belong to a certain organization should not be a "Blanket Indictment" as to their character or abilities.

In 20 plus years of doing Gided Hunts, both as a guide and as a client, I have never asked anyone nor have I ever been asked about NRA or any other membership to any organization.

I just happen to believe that buying hunting licenses and guns and ammunition does support gun ownership in this country.

I am not attacking the NRA or any other organization, I just believe that it is the Individuals Right to decide what organizations they want to join.

quote:

I suggest you ponder the effectiveness and the significance of your more than 6+ posts a day for over 12 years straight.

Mike, In suggest you ponder this. I am an opinionate Son Of A Bitch, Self Made, because my Mother was a really good and decent person and so was my Dad and up to thev last time I saw her before she died, she reminded that I had been raised better than how I act.

This site has been provided for entertainment and the exchange of ideas/knowledge/experience. I spent too many years growing up setting on the sidelines not getting involved in much of anything.

It taught me that when a person does that, they become invisible to others and they stop being even recognised for even being capable vof having an opinion on anything.

I finally decided that if anyone was going to notice mer or give me credit for even being alive, if I had an opinion on an issue I needed to voice that opinion and not give a Fat Rats Ass what anyone thinks.

I don't think anyone should "require" anything of another. However, all else being equal, I'll shop with someone and spend money at a place that supports what I hold dear before the alternative. It's like buying US-made merchandise. Do I absolutely refuse to by imported goods? Nope. But I surely seek out US-made alternatives and will spend more money on US-made merchandise when the opportunity exists. Likewise with firearms. If the only difference between two companies, outfitters included, were membership or support of the NRA, then I would opt for the one supporting the NRA, since I believe what they do is critical to our continued Second Amendment rights. But an outfitter would be foolish to refuse service to a fellow hunter over membership. Maybe offer a little discount to the NRA member as a way to encourage others to join in order to support the good fight.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
As per your typical responses Top Gun, you do not want to open your eyes to the fact that hunting is being threatened on several fronts, and in my opinion, and that is all it is an opinion, hunters as a group are all too often our worst enemy.

Look at your response, you state disagreements should be discussed in a civil manner but you rarely ever discuss anything in a civil manner.

Trying to silence someone because they see things differently from you accomplishes nothing.

If mine or anypone else's comments or opinions bother you so damn bad, Do Not read them.

I just happen to believe hunting is more endangered than some folks think. Is it going to end tomorrow, No. Is it going to end in 5 years. probably not.

10 to 20 years down the road, neither of us know either way.

First off, don't tell me that I don't have my eyes open to what is happening in this country regarding gun control and hunting rights! A person would have to be deaf and blind to not know that both are constantly in the news in a negative way. This was another very typical response of yours after you ask members for comments! Tell me one thing in my post that wasn't civil although some of your comments in rebuttal weren't nice just because we might not be in complete agreement on any any particular issue. However, if you look closely we are both saying the same thing and that is that hunting has it's problems, but it's a long way from disappearing!

quote:

I don't think anyone should "require" anything of another. However, all else being equal, I'll shop with someone and spend money at a place that supports what I hold dear before the alternative. It's like buying US-made merchandise. Do I absolutely refuse to by imported goods? Nope. But I surely seek out US-made alternatives and will spend more money on US-made merchandise when the opportunity exists. Likewise with firearms. If the only difference between two companies, outfitters included, were membership or support of the NRA, then I would opt for the one supporting the NRA, since I believe what they do is critical to our continued Second Amendment rights. But an outfitter would be foolish to refuse service to a fellow hunter over membership. Maybe offer a little discount to the NRA member as a way to encourage others to join in order to support the good fight.

Thank You Sir, that is a very eloquent way of making the point.

At least the American members of this site have or should have the Right to choose for themselves, based on their own personal beliefs, from who they will do business with to the organizations they choose to support.

quote:

However, if you look closely we are both saying the same thing and that is that hunting has it's problems, but it's a long way from disappearing!

You are just as entitled to your opinion as I am mine and that applies to everyone on Accurate Reloading.

While I do not agree with your opinion it doesc not mean that it is not valid, I just do not see a "Rosy" future for hunting or for Private Gun Ownership over the next couple of decades, and I personally would rather be WRONG than Right!

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

However, if you look closely we are both saying the same thing and that is that hunting has it's problems, but it's a long way from disappearing!

You are just as entitled to your opinion as I am mine and that applies to everyone on Accurate Reloading.

While I do not agree with your opinion it doesc not mean that it is not valid, I just do not see a "Rosy" future for hunting or for Private Gun Ownership over the next couple of decades, and I personally would rather be WRONG than Right!

What do you not agree with for God's sake? I have told you that hunting has it's problems just like you keep mentioning in every damn post you make on here! Neither of us can say that hunting will go away in a decade or any other amount of time and to argue like you seem to want to about a time frame is pure BS! That is why I said we have the same opinion and you come back again and say you disagree. I also don't see anything "Rosy", as you put it, about private gun ownership the way all these mass shootings keep occurring along with some many influential Libs out there trying to use each one against us honest, law abiding citizens to take away our rights. I have belonged to the NRA for many moons because without that organization I can guarantee that we would be in a lot deeper dodo today than we are. I'm not in agreement with everything they spout, but their main reason for being is what I choose to support. I also felt that I answered your original question in my first post if you care to look back at that response, as it was meant to cover the whole gamut including what I have or haven't experienced myself regarding your question.

I disagree with you on the time frame concerning the future of hunting.

I disagree with the concept that Hunters themselves are not creating some of the problems concerning the Future of hunting, hence the very reason why I started this discussion. How long would a guide/outfitter/booking agent stay in business if they only catered to NRA members, es;pecially when taking into acciount not ALL NRA members hunt.

The direct threats to Private Gun Ownership in this country are direct threats to the future of hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
I disagree with you on the time frame concerning the future of hunting.

***That's amazing seeing as how I haven't given a time frame because none of us even know if it will happen and certainly can't put any type of time frame on it!

I disagree with the concept that Hunters themselves are not creating some of the problems concerning the Future of hunting,
hence the very reason why I started this discussion. How long would a guide/outfitter/booking agent stay in business if they only catered to NRA members, es;pecially when taking into acciount not ALL NRA members hunt.

***Please find and post where I have ever disagreed that hunters aren't causing some of their own problems. I'll save you some times because there is no such post because I agree with your statement.

The direct threats to Private Gun Ownership in this country are direct threats to the future of hunting.

***That, Sir, is a no brainer as far as firearms go! If that ever happened, the Antis and Huggers would then rally against us hunting with archery equipment or even a spear!

Yep, but if you don't keep people aware of facts they become complacent and then when the inevitable happens they stand around pointing fingers saying "What Happened"!

Fact, as is clearly displayed on this site, as a group hunters are they're own worst enemies all too often.

Crazyhorseconsulting often brings up the 'threat to hunting.' I'd like to know more about this threat. The inference is that at some point in the foreseeable future hunting (anywhere, in any form) will be outlawed or banned and those who would like to participate in it will not be able to do so unless some nebulous changes are made now. I don't see this happening. There is no groundswell of opposition to hunting developing among the general public; a high single digit percentage are hunters, about the same percentage are opposed to hunting while the majority (80%+) don't care one way or the other and those percentages haven't changed much over the years. There are about 17 million (depending on who you ask) active hunters in the US and while it's a shrinking percentage of the total population, this is still has a very large number - about the same as the number of people of who play tennis. Or, to put it another way, there are 2/3rds. as many hunters as there are golfers and it's much easier to be a golfer these days. Hunting is not an obscure activity that will just vanish into obscurity some day.

Hunting has changed and will continue to change - and not necessarily for the better. It's becoming more difficult to find decent hunting opportunities, it's always getting more expensive and harder to find the time so it's no surprise that many potential hunters simply give up. Recruitment of new hunters is dropping as youngsters have so many other things to do nowadays. But even with all that there is still a very large number people who continue to pay the price and put in the effort to be hunters. I believe that will always be true.

At some point in the distant future the world may become so crowded that there simply won't be enough room on the planet to maintain a viable wildlife population but don't count on that happening. Trends change over time. Look at Europe. Much more crowded than North America but many countries continue to have a hunting culture - and, no, it's not just for the very rich. I read an article describing an antelope hunt in an 1885 issue of Harper's Weekly magazine. The author said "if you wish to hunt antelope - or any other big game - in the American West you had better do it now. Within a few years the land will be settled up and all of the other game will follow the bison into extinction." That may have seemed to be a reasonable prediction at the time but it didn't come to pass because a few years later some forward thinking people saw the value in the hunting tradition and the modern conservation movement was born.

It's up to the future generations to decide if the hunting tradition will continue or not. If those who will live in the future don't consider hunting something worthwhile it will be their loss, not mine.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Milan, do you believe in the concept of Freedom Of Choice by the individual?

That is one of the aspects of this discussion, along with the growing cancer of extreme partisanship in this country.

Just because a person belongs to or doesn't belong to a certain organization should not be a "Blanket Indictment" as to their character or abilities.

In 20 plus years of doing Gided Hunts, both as a guide and as a client, I have never asked anyone nor have I ever been asked about NRA or any other membership to any organization.

I just happen to believe that buying hunting licenses and guns and ammunition does support gun ownership in this country.

I am not attacking the NRA or any other organization, I just believe that it is the Individuals Right to decide what organizations they want to join.

Yes absolutely
I never even thought to think about those kinda thoughts in business
Totally freedom of choice
I deal with all sorts of people in my business and I don’t care what they do or think on political scene as I deal with them simply on business side

Venandi, it has to do with the age of hunters and the changes in the ability to find places to hunt.

I will be 68 in September and for the past 20 years I have watched First Hand, the4v reduction in hunting opportunities for the average income individual.

Texas has very little Public Land, can you afford 3K or more to hunt white tails for 90 days or so???

Just answer that, and realize most people cannot afford to do that.

I have been watching it for the past 10 years, and have seen local residents lose the ability to go hunting.

I really do not care whether you believe me or not, but I have witnessed FIRST HAND the changes that have taken place that have forced those unable to afford the fees out of hunting.

Are you calling me a liar?