Looks like 3 top end scopes and 1 that isn't.

How is it that Leupold is even mentioned in the same sentence with the other 3, sorry totally different "class of glass" there

quote:

Originally posted by bearcat:
How is it that Leupold is even mentioned in the same sentence with the other 3, sorry totally different "class of glass" there

Looked through the LPS?

quote:

Looked through the LPS?

Yes sir, I have along with owning a Mark 4 not long ago, the Swaro's, S&B's and Zeiss's are IMO are better glass.

You missed the best of the best

Nightforce!!

I've owned at least one of all four and IMHO the S&B had the best glass of any scope I've ever owned! It was also the heaviest scope I've ever owned, 2.5-10x56, and I soon decided it was more scope than I needed. As stated in your other post we have 4 rifles and we have 4 Leupold 3.5-10x40s. They've worked from the Arctic to South Africa, what more do you need?

30378, what outfit would you recommend as a vendor for Nightforce.

I voted Swaro, because they have more available to me in the US that I like than Zeiss. If I was in Europe and had a greater breadth of selection readily available, it might be Zeiss--but then again, maybe there would be a more diverse selection of Swaro's too....I recently acquired a couple of S&B's and they don't do anything a Swaro won't do.

For Nightforce, i have bought mine from Don at longrangesupply.com

This is an interesting thread and made me think about how I used to shoot and that was with peep sights my first centerfire rifle being an 1903-a3 2groove barrel I bought through the NRA some about 45years ago.I could shoot that rifle really well and went into the Marines at 18yo and qualified high expert.But in my later years using scopes I think my marksmanship has gotten sloppy going the other way now I am going back to mechanical sights as I luckulliy still have good eyesight.But having said that all of my scoped rifles have Leupolds made in the USA.w/regards

Hey a Leupold works just fine for me...

I have not been impressed with the difference of the other three based on the price difference.....

The price differences didn't give me that much more, if at all....

I don't need a Mercedes and Snobby attitude to go to the grocery store.....a toyota works just fine....

just the way I see it...
seafire

If you can't find a Zeiss, look again. They are the best!
Buy a Zeiss 1.5-6x, stick it on any mass produced rifle, on a Mauser action, that can hold a 1 1/2 inch group and go stalking.

I voted Swaro too, but I've never owned one...

WAY beyond my budget.

That being said under field conditions with scopes
externally coated with spray on bedliner I doubt that most could seperate a top end Simmons or Tasco from many other scopes.

there is a definate "diminishing returns effect" with price Vs . quality going on with scopes and that point is reached well before you get to ANY european scope.

AllanD

Haveing experience with all 4 I believe that S&B is the finest scope on the market. Swaro is certainly close enough that I wouldn't argue with anyone who picked it first. Zeiss is 2 steps down; I would put Kahles ahead of it. Leupold is, IMHO, the mendoza line in serious scopes. Having said that, it is a line that need not be crossed. Leupold makes a very good scope and if that were all that I could afford, I'd be quite happy to have one on any rifle that I had.
If you can't afford a leupod than I suggest that you skimp on the rifle. A lesser rifle with good glass will serve you better than the finest gun with a lousy scope.

TerryR

I use several Ziess scopes and several Leupold scopes as well as a couple of Burris Signature scopes after starting with the old Redfields and still shoot two of them. They are all very good and I have taken much game with them all, some are brighter than others, some have worn coatings, but all will still perform. I have a buddy that bought a very expensive Swarovski for Africa and when he needed to take a shot at a Buffalo, his reticle was scrambled. He had to use the PH rifle for the remainder of a 16 day Safari and he came home very pissed. I am sure you can hear that tale about any brand you want to mention. I pound all my rifles with extensive shooting and hard hunting and I have never had to send one back yet. Good shooting.

If you really want optics that you can stake your life on, no matter how bad the conditions, check out U.S. Optics. Seldom seen with civilian rifles, but can be had and custom built to a spec that will handle about anything you might desire. Nightforce is a distant second and have detroyed all of them but the U.S. Optics will hang with you no matter how bad you treat it. Just a suggestion based on experience.

30378, thanks for the lead on longrangesupply.

Driver, do you recommend ordering direct from US optics? I am interested in buying one for hunting purposes, I am impressed by the reviews on them as well as their specs.

Thanks guys--Don

Here we go again "some years ago" (gosh I find myself saying that more amd more). A gum maker I used to know, (there I go again), told me that Zeiss and Swaro made their own lenses from from scratch, S&B bought their glass in as did most other European scope makers. Now if this were true and still holds, then it's likely that Zeiss and Swaro have the best lenses.
Can't say with any certanty that this is the case, I'm unable to verify it. It sounds reasonable to me, but them I'm just a silly old bugger.
I have owned Zeiss and Swaro and it's my view is that Zeiss are the better of the two.
However I prefer Leica binoculars.
Another 2c worth.

quote:

Originally posted by Fish30114:
30378, thanks for the lead on longrangesupply.

Driver, do you recommend ordering direct from US optics? I am interested in buying one for hunting purposes, I am impressed by the reviews on them as well as their specs.

Thanks guys--Don

Hello,
Yes if you can still deal direct with them I would do that. I used to deal direct with the owner, but as earlier mentioned he had a fatal accident and I believe his son is running the operation now or was some year or so ago. I have noticed that SWFA in Texas offers U.S.Optics but try them direct if possible. Also heard that they had some European partners these days. Been a while for me, close to a decade now, and own a couple of their units. Can only say they are designed to be past down to your childrens' children and then some. First cabin in all respects.

Leupold works best for me. I have tried 3 of the scopes you mentioned.

*** TIP-TOP END ***

If you want the ultimate , ( in the tactical arena , anyways ) , -- Look up U.S. OPTICS .

They'll make them to any special purpose needs that you might have , -- but very pricey .

Also read , back around Dec. (?) -- in the AM .RIFLEMAN , that the reasonably priced Simmons Scopes were coming out with target-knob , click adjustment engineering , and mechanical function features that will revolutionize the industry . This new system will end mushy clicks forever , -- and stay absolutely fixed under all conditions . --- They call it their " Master Series " , -- sounds really excellent .

------------- MMCOUGAR .

I have three of the above brands and cannot tell them apart when looking through them.The Zeiss once had its coating melted by the heat or gases from the chamber.The adjustment knob caps on the Leoplold are difficult to put back on in the cold.Once used a friends Busnell and had difficulty seeing the bullseye at 100yds compared to my Leopold.I got to spend more time comparing them to arrive at a meaningful conclusion.If I were to take a guess at clarity it woukld give credit to the Zeiss ,but that is just a guess.

I voted Swarovski, but use Leupold. I have never had a problem with the 30 plus Leupold scopes I have. But with the question of money was not object, I would more than likely use Swarovski.

I like Leupold personaly. But did you forget Leica on your list?

Great glass yes, but IMO the Euro scope designs are butt-ugly.

quote:

Originally posted by Hugh W:
Assuming money were no object and you were selecting only based on best quality, what rifle scope would you choose?

If money is no object why is U.S.Optics not in the poll?

I voted Swarovski. I have Leupold, Zeiss, Kahles, Meopta, and a few others; I like them all (well, except for the "few others"), but the one I am most comfortable with is Swaro. I have never owned or looked through a S&B, but I would like to give them a try. I also think a lot of this is personal preferance/eyesight; my buddy owns a lot more rifles and scopes than I do and he swears by Zeiss.

I would suggest that if you have access to them you try as many of the options as possible and make the desicion that is best for you.

IMO the longer eye relief of Leupolds outweighs the slightly better optics of the Euros.

S & B Bender contract

Here is an interesting link. Seems S & B just won the Marine Corp contract of scopes.

Ted Thorn, are you aware of a source for Leica Riflescopes. I would be very interested to be able to obtain some.

Thanks--Don

The Leupold Mark 8 is in the top 5 scopes in the world among tactical rifle scopes. Leupold doesn't really have a corresponding hunting product line that matches a Schmidt Zenith.

I would take the other three as long as I could have a leupold with incase the others failed. If I just have Leupold Ill be ok. For a hunting scope, at least in the US where you have 1/2 before sunrise to 1/2 hour after sunset the better glass debate is fruitless after a point. I can pick rabbits out of the garden with the Bushnell Sportview on my .22 5 Minutes after legal shooting.(not that I have ) The super expensive (and heavy) tactical scopes are indestructible, but if you need those you better have one hell of a rifle too. It's kinda like taking a tank to Wal-mart for Groceries in case someone loses control of there shopping cart. I do prefer the Zeiss sight picture to the rest ever so slightly, but I do have an extra Leupold that goes with out of state when I am using a rifle with any of the euro scopes. Those mentioned are all great scopes in my opinion, but they are not all worth the retail price.

Let's see, I started using scoped rifles in 1968.

I will be 66 in September, and with the exception of 1 Weatherby Premier 2.5 x 7 that was on a rifle I bought and a 3 x 9 Leupold I bought to replace that scope, all I have ever used have been Weaver scopes, normally K 6, fixed 6 powers.

I simply do not buy in to the top end rifle scope concept. The money I could spend on a Top End scope can better be used to pay for a hunt.

I have a Schmidt & Bender Zenith illuminated on my 375 H&H. It really is a GREAT

scope, brings in light at dusk better than any other scope I own, I have Swarovski's on

my two 30-06's, both are really good, clear & tough.

However, I put a new Leica illuminated on my new single shot I had made &

so far it seems pretty nice, essentially equal to the Swaro's? Probably can't

go wrong with any of them.

Jim

Swarovski scopes are fabulous - to me other scopes appear fuzzy, dim, and/or narrow compared to Swarovski, but they are expensive. You get what you pay for in life.

I have many Swaros and I NEVER buy one new.

I have had them all.European scopes have the best glass,but nothing trumps Leupold for generous eye relief and light weight.I have a couple z5s on rifles.Glass is outstanding,but the reticles suck.JMHO,OB

I have a Swarovski on my primary BGR, a Leupold on my truck gun and some squirrel rifles and Zeiss scopes on my varminiters.
I haven't owned a S&B.
nightforce is overpriced and their customer service is pure shit.
Leica seemed nice but I don't have enough experience to comment.

They all have their place but I would give Swarovski the nod for top spot.

I voted Schmidt & Bender but the top three are pretty close in quality - as long as the only Zeiss scopes you consider are their top of the line models. The top end of Leupold's scopes are better than the middle and lower end of Zeiss, IMO.

Another one you should consider with those is Kahles. I have a 6x42 Kahles that is great. My Kahles ZF-95 has been on three rifles in the years I have owned it. It's waiting for my 300 H&H bolt rifle to come back from McMillan. I have cams for 5.56, 7.62 NATO, and 300 Win Mag (the one I'll be using for the 300 H&H). I've also owned an 8x56 and a variable (3-9x42 ?) that I traded of years ago.

I have owned a few Zeiss but the only one that was high quality was one that came with a Holland & Holland bolt rifle I sold five years ago. The other Zeiss scopes were a real disappointment and I got rid of them before even mounting them.

I have a S&B 10X Police Marksman PM1 with a Bryant reticle on my H&H single shot. I love that scope!

If money was no object and I was going on a very remote HUNT of a LIFETIME, somewhat depending on field conditions, I would buy two, 2.5-8x Leupies, sight both of them in on rifle and carry one as an extra AND I would have substantial money left over compared to buying any one of the others. Two PHs I have used in Africa nearly pledged their first born to me when I gave them the above scope.

You will find that many of the most serious hunters use Leupies. Saeed, who has likely shot more large game than any other two people in here, uses one, for example.

I own all of the above list of scopes, even if the original list is 10 years old, most in several different models, and the differences in performance are relatively minimal, especially compared to the large differences in price, wt, size, etc.