Already looking ahead to 2017, and lining up a family elk hunt in Eastern Montana.

I plan on taking my .270 Winchester and can't decide on a bullet weight. My initial thoughts were for a 150 grain bonded such as A-Frame, Norma Oryx, or Woodleigh. But I'm wondering if a 130 grain TSX or Nosler E-tip might not be a competitive option.

Thoughts and experiences appreciated.

These are my thoughts, backed by years of personal experience.
I have killed 30+ elk with 130's.
Good luck on your hunt

35,

All that you mentioned are great choices, but also think about the Nosler Accubond and TBBC. I use 130 Accubonds and 140 TBBC myself. I have heard both good and bad about the TSX and E-Tip varieties regarding expansion so I just stay with a bonded core bullet. Saying that, I also had good success with standard cup and core bullets like speer, sierra and hornady....I just moved to bonded for the extra layer of confidence.

Put the bullet in the vitals and keep the range reasonable and you should be fine.

IT's done with lighter bullets every year and lots of guys profess it. I feel a heavier bullet will get thru more of an animal than a light one.

I shot a bull elk on the shoulder at about 25 feet with my '06 and 150's. It blew up, just made a big bubble under the skin and pulverized the bone about half inch deep was all. He went down from a prior hit top of the shoulders. Another 150 to the head destroyed it.

I'm fully convinced if I'd had 180's it would have penetrated as they did for years on several others. And NO I have never shot one that close since other than finish up shots.

I'm just throwing this out as my own experience; But ONCE. Just something more to consider.

Good luck,
George

quote:

Originally posted by ravenr:
These are my thoughts, backed by years of personal experience.
I have killed 30+ elk with 130's.
Good luck on your hunt

Listen to people that live in elk country and actually kill elk.
Then figure out which bullet your rifle shoots the very best whether it's 130's or 140's or 150's, then shoot your rifle a lot at distances you plan on shooting elk at. Get in elk hunting shape.
Go out and put a bullet in one in the right place.

There ya go elk hunting made easy ....

150 gr Northfork or AFrame @ 2,800-2850 fps

One of my neighbors in Alaska was older than me and had grown up in Montana where he had killed elk every year from the time he was a young teen-ager. In Alaska he killed moose and caribou every year. He had taken the grand slam on sheep and several mountain goats. All of this with a .270. He had used 130 grain Remington Core Lokts and then switched to split partitions---wasn't broke, but he fixed it anyways. The 130 or 150 in right place, elk wont know the difference.

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:

quote:

Originally posted by ravenr:
These are my thoughts, backed by years of personal experience.
I have killed 30+ elk with 130's.
Good luck on your hunt

Listen to people that live in elk country and actually kill elk.
Then figure out which bullet your rifle shoots the very best whether it's 130's or 140's or 150's, then shoot your rifle a lot at distances you plan on shooting elk at. Get in elk hunting shape.
Go out and put a bullet in one in the right place.

There ya go elk hunting made easy ....

This^^^

My big question is where in Eastern Montana are you planning to hunt elk on an over the counter tag? I live here and have only drawn 2 tags in the last 15 years.

No problem killing an elk with a conventional 130 grainer -- assuming it is placed just behind the shoulder and into the heart/lung area. I'd prefer a 150 (Nosler Partition or Accubond would be my choice). It's not that the 130 won't do fine, just that the 150 provides a little penetration insurance if the shot is at a disadvantageous angle.

I recall Jack O'Connor writing that in the .270 the 130's seemed to kill elk quicker than the 150's. I'm sure that's true if the shot is in to the "soft" portions of the thorax.

I've only shot 13 elk. The first six were taken with a Model 50 J.C. Higgins rifle in .270 Winchester and 130-grain Arizona Bullet Company "culls" ($1.50 per hundred in 1955) that I handloaded with a Lyman tong tool.

I was young then, and didn't know I was undergunned and needed "premium" bullets.

The other seven were taken in my later life with a 7mm Rem. Mag and 175-grain Nosler Partitions.

None of my elk traveled more than 30 yards.

I have only limited anecdotal evidence but I can say with certainty that those 13 elk taught me there is only one degree of dead.

Bill Quimby

quote:

My big question is where in Eastern Montana are you planning to hunt elk on an over the counter tag? I live here and have only drawn 2 tags in the last 15 years.

Beaver Creek Outfitting from Lewiston, MT. So looking at the map I guess it's more like central Montana. I plead born and raised on the East Coast, or public school education.

quote:

Originally posted by 35whelenman:

quote:

My big question is where in Eastern Montana are you planning to hunt elk on an over the counter tag? I live here and have only drawn 2 tags in the last 15 years.

Beaver Creek Outfitting from Lewiston, MT. So looking at the map I guess it's more like central Montana. I plead born and raised on the East Coast, or public school education.

I give you a pass....lots of people in-state don't know there is anything East of Billings.
Have a great trip

Prior to last fall my elk have dropped to either a 375 H&H (260 gr Partition), 338-06 (210 gr Partitonand 185 gr TSX) or a 35 Whelen (225 gr TSX). All good. Last fall I used a Kimber Montana 270 throwing the 140 gr TSX at a hair shy of 3000 fps. A 250 yard shot opened and down the bull went no different that those previous. The bullet was recovered, weighing 130 grs, just beneath the hide after drilling the near side shoulder.

I have killed a fair number of Colorado elk with the 270. My bullet of choice has been the 150 grain Nosler Partition which has never failed me. A friend uses 150 grain Hornady Interlocks with the same results. Other Colorado hunters I know successfully use various 130 grain bullets. Use whatever you and your rifle like the best.

I won't disagree with anything said in this thread, but I would like to make a clarifying statement. Killing them is one thing; finding them after they are dead is often another. Elk live in incredibly "big country" and it can swallow them up in a hurry if you do not see them fall. I like for a bullet to exit for that singular reason, no different from my feelings about shooting deer.

If I was going to shoot a .270 it would either be with a monolithic like Barnes, or something on the order of an A-Frame or Partition. I have seen both a Nosler Solid Base out of a 7 RM at 180 yards fail to exit, and a 150-grain Speer GS do the same thing at roughly 200.

As my Idaho Falls buddy said these long years ago "You need a better bullet".

He was right... they are big animals and they soak up energy like nothing I have ever seen. It kills them, but often they hide to die...

My only experience with a .270 on elk was watching a guy take a nice 6x6 at a long ways off with one shot using 150 grain bullets. Sorry don't remember the brand, most likely Nosler. He was a handloader and liked the performance Noslers gave.

I go along with the idea of 130 or 150, whichever your rifle shoots best and your being able to place the shot accurately and the results will be a dead elk.

My son got his first elk with a 130g CoreLokt PSP out of our late 60's vintage BDL in 270. It worked fine. I started loading 150g Partitions at about 3000 fps out of the same rifle 40 years ago (I had come down with a heart condition about five years ago so my son had to do with factory ammo). The 150g Partition is my goto load for everything but varmints in the 270. They both work.

I have used the 130gr. Barnes TSX with stellar performance. Have no experience with the 140 and 150gr. TSX. I Have went the TSX route over 10 years ago and am fully satisfied.
The A frame and NP's also have a stellar record and all will do well.
I am surprised no one mentioned the 160gr. NP and their experience with it.

I used the 150gr Partition in my 270 since my first big game hunt in 1970, and they never let me down. I have a number of recovered Partitions, and pieces of Partions, from deer and elk, but they worked well.

In 1992, I switched to Barnes X, then the XLC, then TSX and now the TTSX. I have not recovered any Barnes, out of any big game animal, with any cartridge I use (30-06, 270 and 243).

In the 270, I use the 130gr TTSX, the 30-06 gets the 168gr TTSX and the 243 gets the 80gr TTSX.

50 grs of 4831 over a CCI 250 mag rifle primer with a 140 gr hornaday SPBT has been a killer in mine and my dad's .270s for YEARS.

though the old man has been playing with accubonds and SSTs lately.

quote:

Killing them is one thing; finding them after they are dead is often another. Elk live in incredibly "big country" and it can swallow them up in a hurry if you do not see them fall. I like for a bullet to exit for that singular reason

I'll agree. If you use a bullet which is certain to fully penetrate an elk and "leaves a good blood trail", then you're going to need that blood trail to find the elk because the bullet's penetration is almost certainly because it did not expand sufficiently to cause adequate trauma to incapacitate the elk quickly. It is trauma which kills, not simply penetration.

Aren't opinions great? Everybody gets to have one.

270 Win is plenty for elk and that's a fact which has been proven for decades!

If it were my hunt, all your bullet choices sound good except the Ballistic Tip Nosler. I LOVE them for deer and antelope but my OPINION is they are too fragile for elk.

I'd use the 130 or 140 bonded or Partition Nosler or the 130 TTX Barnes (which makes the 270 penetrates like a bigger gun) before others which I have less experience with.

Have a great elk hunt.

Zeke

Most of those 30+ elk were killed with Nosler Ballistic Tips.
Too fragile? I've raked them longways, broadside, busted their necks AND never lost an animal or had To go looking far for a fallen animal.

The 270/150 Ballistic Tip is hell for stout IME. I've actually used it on elk.

Aside, I've seen more elk killed with the 270 and simple 130 gr. Cup-and-Core bullets than any other single cartridge/bullet combination. The 130 in the 270 works, including with "non-premium" bullets.

I've sweated more blood free trailing jobs than those with blood on the ground.

This past May a sable in Mozambique took a quartering-on shot that broke the near shoulder, wrecked the near lung and heart, and clipped the back half of the off-side lung before lodging under the skin. No blood, no hair, and no tracks on the ground. Trackers swore they heard the bullet hit, but couldn't find a single sign of the bull. Feeling desperate, I walked to a small cluster of palms and termite mounds to try and get an elevated few. There was the bull, dead 100 yards from where he'd been shot. That's an experience I'm not willingly repeating, and so I look for my rounds to exit.

I also will only have a precious few days to hunt, so I may only get one good shot opportunity, and that may be a quartering on shot that has to get through a bull elk's shoulder. My long-time load of 130 grain Hornady Interlock SPs, probably isn't up to that type of shot. So I'm thinking monolithic in 130 grains, or bonded in 150 grains.

quote:

Originally posted by ravenr:
Most of those 30+ elk were killed with Nosler Ballistic Tips.
Too fragile? I've raked them longways, broadside, busted their necks AND never lost an animal or had To go looking far for a fallen animal.

Thanks for sharing and I have no reason to doubt your experience and you have no reason to doubt mine.

You have your experiences and I have mine. I've killed deer, antelope, elk and sheep with the Ballistic tip and I still say it's too fragile FOR MY LIKING on elk.
How you spend your time and money is your business but I can afford a little stouter bullet for elk...so I do it since they're too "ballistic" on elk for my liking.
Ain't life grand? We can all have an opinion on what we like and it can be different from someone else's and that's okay.

Zeke

I wasn't condemning you opinion, just stating that I do like them and have used them successfully on elk.

quote:

Originally posted by ravenr:
I wasn't condemning you opinion, just stating that I do like them and have used them successfully on elk.

No offence taken and none directed your way.

I always appreciate these type of discussions where civility rules the day.

I had several long and tedious stories all typed out about recovered BT bullets and game killed spanning over 3 decades of Ballistic tip use but at the end of the day, what works for you is great and what works for me on elk is different but great also. Whew, what a run-on sentence!

Zeke

quote:

Originally posted by ZekeShikar:
I had several long and tedious stories all typed out about recovered BT bullets and game killed spanning over 3 decades of Ballistic tip use

Zeke

You may not realize, but most Ballistic Tips are in their fifth or eighth iteration.

The jackets on the BG variety (which is what is being discussed here) are the same used in the Accubond line. They're incredibly thick. I've found them more reliable than Hdy Interlocks.

I also have used Ballistic Tips going back into the 1980's, but those bullets (and therefore experiences) bear no relationship to today's NBT's (Nosler Ballistic Tips).

quote:

Originally posted by Brad:

quote:

Originally posted by ZekeShikar:
I had several long and tedious stories all typed out about recovered BT bullets and game killed spanning over 3 decades of Ballistic tip use

Zeke

You may not realize, but most Ballistic Tips are in their fifth or eighth iteration.

The jackets on the BG variety (which is what is being discussed here) are the same used in the Accubond line. They're incredibly thick. I've found them more reliable than Hdy Interlocks.

I also have used Ballistic Tips going back into the 1980's, but those bullets (and therefore experiences) bear no relationship to today's NBT's (Nosler Ballistic Tips).

Could not agree more.

since we have come to the conclusion the 130 gr will kill. would anyone share there favorite recipe (powder and load). I just acquired a 270 win and would appreciate some informed information.

thanks

60 grns H4831SC with just about any 130 grn bullet

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:

I'll agree. If you use a bullet which is certain to fully penetrate an elk and "leaves a good blood trail", then you're going to need that blood trail to find the elk because the bullet's penetration is almost certainly because it did not expand sufficiently to cause adequate trauma to incapacitate the elk quickly. It is trauma which kills, not simply penetration.

In my experience monometal bullets, such as the Barnes X, create impressive trauma despite the fact that they have a relatively small frontal area when expanded.

Have you experienced poor truama with monos?

Thanks Ted, I will start a little lower and proceed.

Remington cases and 9.5 large rifle primers
56.0 grains IMR-4831
130 grain Hornady Interlock

12 years of use with lots of deer and feral hogs. Only ever recovered one bullet, but that was from a close range shot into the should of a mature boar. Lots of bone, muscle and gristle plate would have made it tough on any bullet.

Just used that load to take this deer last week. One bullet through the lungs left a huge, 40 yard blood trail.

[IMG]file:///C:/Users/owner/Pictures/PA%20buck%202016%20side%20(2).jpg[/IMG]

Even with all the good experiences I've had with load, I'm reluctant to use it on elk. No doubts it will kill quick and clean with a nice broadside shot, but I'm not certain it would go through a shoulder and have enough energy left to quickly kill.

...and no love on the photo...

quote:

Originally posted by Brad:

quote:

Originally posted by ZekeShikar:
I had several long and tedious stories all typed out about recovered BT bullets and game killed spanning over 3 decades of Ballistic tip use

Zeke

You may not realize, but most Ballistic Tips are in their fifth or eighth iteration.

The jackets on the BG variety (which is what is being discussed here) are the same used in the Accubond line. They're incredibly thick. I've found them more reliable than Hdy Interlocks.

I also have used Ballistic Tips going back into the 1980's, but those bullets (and therefore experiences) bear no relationship to today's NBT's (Nosler Ballistic Tips).

Yes, I was aware of the revamp of the bullets over time, Thank you sir.

I shot an antelope again this year with a .277 130 BT (Brand new off the shelf) and got the usual performance. DRT. However, I had about 7-8" of penetration and the base only of the bullet was found on the INSIDE of the off-shoulder, not under the shin on the far side of the shoulder. The jacket had shed the core and most of the front of the jacket was missing. Not much of an elk bullet TO ME.

This is indicative of what I see with the 130's but, admittedly, have never shot the .277 150's. I'm sure the heavier, slower 150's might be closer to an elk bullet.

I could go on and on but this is indicative of every real-world example that I could share. I'm certain that for every anecdotal bit of evidence that I could share, someone could refute it with their experience and that's fine but I can afford a better bullet for elk and don't mind using a different load for different size critters.

The 130 BT does NOT exhibit the kind of performance I look for in an elk bullet but I'm sure that 7-8" of penetration in just the right spot will certainly kill and elk but I prefer not to try them again on elk.

I have been using the .284 150's extensively with a bit more reliable penetration. I've used them on several sheep and lots of deer and will continue to do so.

Like I said, everyone is entitled to their opinion and I have some pretty solid opinions about what works FOR ME. I only shared my opinion because the OP asked and I respect the opinion of others but not enough to change my mind.

Keep up the good work,
Zeke

My go to Elk bullet for my .270 WSM's is the 160 grain Nosler Partition. I was fortunate enough to buy 20 boxs of first run bullets from Nosler for a bargain I could not pass up. I also use the 130 grain Northfork for Deer and would have confidence it would perform on Elk. Good Shooting.

I haven't killed many elk in my life but I have killed them with a .270

This cow is about as big a cow as you will find and she didn't hold the 140 grn Accubond from my .270



Cartridges are more alike than different

Nice shot placement, Ted.