Today, while daydreaming and reminiscing about past hunts, I got to wondering. It's clear to me, even as a relative newcomer to hunting, that some critters show amazing resilience and resist the hunters attempts to kill them quickly, even when a catastrophic injury is dealt. Then there are those animals that are extremely cooperative. ;c) Example: I hunt waterfowl and other birds relentlessly by most any measure, and it seems very clear to me that some need little more than a scratch to kill them, say, grouse or teal, while others can stand an unbelievable amount of abuse, including what are obviously fatal wounds, and still manage to hold on to life and attempt to--and sometimes succeed--elude being brought to bag.

By virtue of simple anatomy it's clear that some critters are simply built more stoutly than others. A wood duck is no goose. But some just seem to defy logic. My question is, how is that? The will to survive is somehow 'stronger' in some creatures? I mean, I've seen goldeneyes with nothing but a strip of skin holding their heads on dive and swim like the devil. Same thing with seaducks. Then there are big mallards that take only a pellet or two to flop them upside-down. Some has of course to do with how well they are hit--that's obvious. But then there are things that I just cannot fathom.

Same with other animals. Why, for example, does a black bear seem to give in so relatively easily, as opposed to other big critters who are known to flee with no heart left? I guess what I'm asking, in a nutshell, is do you think some animals have a stronger will to live than others?

Anyone care to theorize/explain?

Cheers,

Leighton

I think that most animals will drop fast if not aware of one's presence or spooked when the shot is taken, as long as the shot is lethal. Of course, the larger the hole through a vital organ (such as the heart, for example), the soonest it will drop.



Now, if the animal becomes aware of one's presence and flees, or charges, then a lethal shot through the heart (same bullet hole as the first example), may not be as effective and often (not always) the animal will move a distance before it dies. With a charging bear, that extra time between heartbeats may be enough for it to reach you before it dies. The same may be true for other dangerous game.



Of all the moose I have shot through the lungs or heart with my .338WM, only two have walked a few yards, and both had seen me by the time I had taken the shot. All other have dropped on the spot, or pretty close to it.



But, I am not an expert on this subject. I could very well be wrong.

"only two have walked a few years"

Ray : I ain't pickin' on you cause my fat fingers ain't too good on the keyboard, either, but that's funny!

In my experience it all comes down to the Central Nervous System. Other factors are how much reserve oxygen and blood sugar is there, and how much adrenaline has been released to the tissues.

To kill an animal, you must stop CNS activity. The fastest way to do that is brain shot. A brain stem shot has much the same effect. The heart/lung shot does the same thing, but slower, allowing time for reserves to be put to use. For me, the heart/lung shot has the side benefit of getting much of the blood out of the animals flesh quickly.

I suppose its all well and good, till the animal has the ability and will to put you into the next world. Down at the shot becomes a lot more important then. My only serious encounters of that nature have been the big browns of Alaska. However, really mad whitetail can change your day also.

I kind of adopted a habit of letting the animal have a few minutes, if it is down and not active, just to let the process finish.

Interesting thought. I have never known, or heard about, anyone who has hit a moose and lost it, however I seen Elk and even antelope take amazing amount of punishment, and keep going.
I suspect that how active the animal is in its normal activities has some influence on how "tough" the animal is. I'm interested to hear other opinions.

Ray and 8mm pretty much sum it up for big game. I really notice it on bears. When they don't know you are there and you whack em, they just seem to fold. But they see you and you wack them they seem to live alot longer unless you hit them in the spine or head of coarse.
I have seen some elk and whitetails take alot of lead. Hit in the right places too. Makes you wonder.

As far as waterfoul and upland birds. Some are a little more tenatous than others it seems.


Daryl

I think it has a lot to do with individual experiences, if you happen to have a tough time downing a particular animal it sticks in your memory more than all the easy kills...

Boghossian, I think your answer has a lot to do with percieved toughness.

That said, it remains clear wild animals are individuals in and some will be tougher than others. Add to this equasion "circumstance" and strange things can happen.

I have noticed that gravid sows are more tenacious than when they are not.

I have also shot a coyote with a .30-06, taking out the heart and ripping the off side shoulder off. This coyote made a 10 meter dash into thick brush. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seem it myself.

Then, most coyotes just flop over when hit in the same place with a .222rem.

I agree with the others on the "see the hunter/don't see the hunter" factor.

When flushing pheasant or jumping ducks off of a creek the birds know their on them menu fly for life; the adrenaline pump is in gear and survival instincts have taken over.

When pass shooting or taking them over decoys their mind is on travel or grub and they seem to not know what hit them.

Same for big game. I used to hunt whitetail by pushing the river bottoms. The deer were spooked, intense, and had the fight for life mechanism engaged. Tougher to put down.

Lately when shooting deer from a blind between their pasture to bedding area they don't really know what hit them. If they are not immediately mortally hit they tent to trot a bit or turn around.

Regardless, wild pheasant are armor plated and have super-avian powers not understood by modern man. They use their stun-ray and confusum-ray (I can't see the ray, but I know they have power over me) just as they are taking off. Then, just as their tail (made of composite fiber, Kevlar most likely) is directly between me and their head/heart/lung they allow me to regain my senses and waste a few shots.

The cackle sound they make is wicked laughter and I am the object of their scorn.

I believe Ray & others are spot on about an animal which is not alarmed dropping quicker to a vital shot than one that has the adrenalin (sp?) pumping! Have seen it many times on deer.

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So, though they are still moving, are they really dead with their heads removed?

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Hot Core, good question regarding snakes, especially.

Many years ago, my son wanted a rattlesnake skin for a hatband and had skinned a small one. He and a friend were playing with the "dead" snake (head,skin & rattles removed, of course). They teased it and it would coil up and actually strike in response. Could this be simply nerves reacting? Beats me!

I do believe certain species have a much stronger will to live than others. As illustrated by Express, the coyote is one tough hombre!

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I have also shot a coyote with a .30-06, taking out the heart and ripping the off side shoulder off. This coyote made a 10 meter dash into thick brush. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seem it myself.

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Last year I shot a coyote trotting broadside about 35 yards out; he had no idea anyone was in the area. Perfect shot placement through both shoulders with a 300 gr. hornady soft point from 375 h&h. He reversed directions and ran a semi-circle path, covering 30-35 yards before he colapsed. Hit another at about 75 yards coming to a call w/200 gr. nosler partition in front shoulder, knocking him down where he stood in the edge of a caliche road. He flopped around a bit and wound up in knee high grass. When I went down to look at him, he was gone! Tracked him for 40 yards through some really thick brush and lost the blood trail. Was walking circles trying to pick up the blood when I heard what I thought was javelina clacking their tusks at me. Upon further examination, found a large pool of blood where the sound came from. The noise had been the coyote's shattered bones rubbing together when he spooked and ran from his hide. Now that is oune tough animal. Never did find him. Granted, neither of the above coyotes were shot with a proper bullet for coyotes, but one would think that even without proper expansion, considering shot placement, either would prove fatal quickly.

Regards,
hm

Last year we were beating up on seaducks in the outer Boston Harbor, and had a pile of both scoters and eiders on the deck. Each one had been perforated with BBs and retrieved by dog in the surf. As the shooting slowed, we snapped a few pictures and each of us stroked and admired the big, tough seagoing waterfowl. At this time the dog decided he needed to empty his breakfast on board. With a self-bailing Maritime skiff, the water sloshes around the deck when stationary, and carried the mess all over the deck.
Unfortunately, a lot of it was washed onto some of the birds. My partner, after carefully booting his dog in the arse, began grabbing birds by limp neck and dunking them in and out of the water to perform a cursory clean on them. Two of us watched as took a soiled scoter by the neck, talking to us as he did. This particluar scoter had been particularly badly hit, with both head and both wings mangled. After a few dunks, my bud decided he was in need of a better cleaning, and figured he'd let the bloody, soiled mess flop around in the waves for awhile (spin cycle!). He casually tossed the bird overboard as he reached for the next. As I watched, sure as shit that scoter literally seemed to come back from the dead upon hitting the water--I actually saw his eyes go from that blank dead stare to wide-eyed scared-- and immediately wheeled from where he was floating on his back to rocket straight for the bottom! I was so flabbergasted all I could do was laugh and point. The dog was ordered to pursue, and a minute or so later, the scoter came up for air and was nabbed. Again!

That bird was knocked from the air at 30 yards, and was chock full of BBs, his body broken. He had been retrieved, had his neck wrung and had ben prone on the deck of a rocking boat for at least an hour. But when he felt that cold Atlantic water, apparently decided he just wasn't ready to toss in the towel.

Some thoughtful and neat responses. Thanks!

Leighton

I've observed much the same on diving ducks -- in their case the incredibly thick feathers serve as armor against the shot. A friend and I shot canvasbacks, redheads and bluebills this year. A couple of cripples survived 2 or 3 more swats on the water before expiring (with the same loads like #4 Bismuth and #3 high velocity steel as I'd not brought any small-pellet loads for the purpose).

Also went on a wood duck hunt around a flooded cornfield -- incredible shooting and darn tough finding any but the instantly dead birds afterward, due to their incredible tenacity and instinct to hide underwater.

All good reasons to have a good dog, and send it after cripples ASAP!