quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:

What is your opinion?

It revolves around the defination of 'hunting'. When I'm hunting I have a round chambered, safety on, safe handling, etc. When I'm in the field but not hunting, it's 'full magazine, empty chamber' time.

I'm hunting when I am out of a vehicle and have stable footing, in the field, and have a chance at a shot. I'm not hunting when I'm crossing a fence/ravine/etc., climbing a ladder/tree/ etc. or riding in a vehicle of any type.

Clear enough?

I have talked to ten of my buddies now on how they hunt here in alaska, all 10 of them agreed with me and snowwolf, magazine loaded empty chamber until on final stalk or on stand. Its a different type of hunting up here its hard to explain.

Round in the chamber.

Follow the 10 commandments of firearms handling.

Chances of an accident when following the 10 commandments of firearms safety is less than being struck by lightning.

Chances of an accident when not following the 10 commandments of firearms safety...???

IV

WoW!
I didn't think this one would stir the poo so well!

For me it varies by situation. I've carried full auto's in close quarters with rounds chambered all around me and felt safer than being in the same field as some guys!
I generally will chamber a round when I'm in an area that I expect to have a shot in, as long as it's safe. If I'm hunting with someone else and they are out in front then they will have the first shot. I don't need to be as "ready" as they do. Then again, there are times I chamber one leaving the vehicle. My safety stays on, finger off, brain engaged! My little boys are learning the same thing. I have taught them that they are the best safety. The gun will do exactly what you allow! Nate

Thebear_78

I lived in the bush for over 20 years and when we were hunting the rifles were loaded with one up the spout all the time. When in bear country in my opinion you are foolish to do otherwise.

Mark

Silliest question I ever heard. If you're carrying a rifle (or a pistol or a shotgun), a round belongs in the chamber. Otherwise, leave the gun at home.

quote:

Originally posted by interboat:
Silliest question I ever heard. If you're carrying a rifle (or a pistol or a shotgun), a round belongs in the chamber. Otherwise, leave the gun at home.

Speaking of silly...

I've hunted since I was a "little" kid- coon hunted with my grandfather a couple of nights a week (Savage 22/410 O/U) always loaded- on safe- hunted VC&NVA for a long time- always on FullAuto!(Rockn'Roll) - used to be Sgt.Krohn

hunt with my .06 chambered on safe - I trust the safe on my weapons

..would prefer to hunt VC&NVA...
(my battalion just got home from Mosul)
you guys hunt however you want- I'll have a round in the chamber and it may or may not be on safe !!

A lot of folks here seem to have an awful lot of faith in their mechanical safeties and their ability to never violate the muzzle direction commandment...

... even when stumbling, or pulling brush out of the way, or blowing your nose, or peeking the bincos juuuuusst so you can count the points on the nice buck across the way, or just plain losing a firm grip on your rifle when something unexpected happens.

Handle guns long enough and you all who "never mis-point the barrel" will mis-point the barrel. Hopefully when it happens, nothing bad will happen...

9.3x62- did you ever hunt the BAD guys with AK-47s ??
I have the feeling you haven't paid your DUES !!
any CIBs, CARs (I doubt the new CAB..) in your past....
hunting little defenseless animals doesn't mean anything !! you need to hunt something that shoots back !!

Round in the chamber as soon as I leave the vehicle.

quote:

Originally posted by CaptJack:
9.3x62- did you ever hunt the BAD guys with AK-47s ??
I have the feeling you haven't paid your DUES !!
any CIBs, CARs (I doubt the new CAB..) in your past....
hunting little defenseless animals doesn't mean anything !! you need to hunt something that shoots back !!

You'll note, my decorated friend, this thread IS about hunting ANIMALS, not people. Nonetheless, thanks for the irrelevant comments about people hunting - perhaps we can start another thread.

9.3x62
I totally respect your opinion and teach the same... just having a little fun with you...
but I do hunt with a round chambered.

.. and wish I had been young enough to go to Mosul with my battalion last year !!

quote:

Originally posted by CaptJack:
9.3x62
I totally respect your opinion and teach the same... just having a little fun with you...
but I do hunt with a round chambered.

.. and wish I had been young enough to go to Mosul with my battalion last year !!

Well, I confess, you had me going there a bit.

Oh, I go with a loaded chamber, just not any more than seems prudent. Especially when walking about with fellow hunters. I've seen a couple near misses, and WOW, what unnerving events...

quote:

Originally posted by 9.3x62:

Handle guns long enough and you all who "never mis-point the barrel" will mis-point the barrel. Hopefully when it happens, nothing bad will happen...

Drive a car long enough and you will eventually "mis-drive"

Step into enough bath tubs and you will eventually "mis-step"

Come in contact with enough people with the flu and you eventually come into "mis-contact"

"Life" is full of risks but entering a state of paranoia is not what I would consider "living"

All of the forementioned events kill more people in the U.S. every year than "mis-handled" firearms...

Certainly, if someone "feels" safer by not having a round in the chamber-- be my guest. But I COMPLETELY DISAGREE that it is in any way, shape or fashion an even remotely "unsafe" activity.......

IV

quote:

Originally posted by MARK H. YOUNG:
Thebear_78

I lived in the bush for over 20 years and when we were hunting the rifles were loaded with one up the spout all the time. When in bear country in my opinion you are foolish to do otherwise.

Mark

As you will note from my post, the times that my gun isn't loaded it would be fairly inaccessable as far as bear defense, cross slung, in rifle rack on wheeler, strapped to pack. If I feel I need the rifle in my hands its generally loaded. I carry a revovler strapped to my chest as my "in case" weapon, not as powerful but much easier to pull and fire than it is to unsling, unstrap, or get to the rifle then I have time to jack a round in. Plus a lot easier to pull and fire from my back or laying on the ground.

How ever a person responds to this post is controversial at best. If you are on a guided hunt in Alaska not many guides would allow a hunter to have a round chambered at all times. Stalks on sheep and bears take hours with rock hopping,stream crossings.mind boggleing alder patchs,and belly crawling. To have a hunter behind you with a bullet in the chamber going through this (accident about to happen) terrian is shear lunacy. A few hunters try to insist on a round chambered but with a longtime guide it won't be allowed. High powered people sometime try to run the hunt and steer young or new guides and get away with it.The general mood of the hunt has been compromised at times But anyone who's had a rifle fire behind him will not budge on this policy.

Hunting alone of course a round in, no problem at all. I've never met anyone who hasn't slipped or fallen while hunting, a gun stood against a tree can fall over--freak accidents can happen. Impossible to have a freak accident without one in the pipe, period. If you're on a stalk or possibley close to dangerous game then you need one chambered.

the chef

Most of the time I hunt with a round in the chamber. If I am climbing with someone then I will empty the chamber.

I was sheep hunting with a friend and the whole trip he hunting with an empty chamber which at the time seemed odd to me. But during a climb down the mountain while I was leading, I fell and started sliding down on my back. I rolled over to all fours to see my rifle coming down barrel pointing up at my friend. Needless to say I had the chamber empty pretty much from then on. At least while not on level ground.

Another two friends of mine had the same thing happen and the gun went off only missing by a foot!!

And there was the guy who had the loaded gun in the boat who was killed this year while unloading the boat. (related to my friend who was almost shot in the above story).

I keep my handgun loaded all the time because I have never had any episodes whatsoever with it.

CaptJack,

Great pics.

I was one month old when that was taken.

One in the tube and a well fed magizine. Safety on while moving about.

quote:

Originally posted by IdahoVandal:
Drive a car long enough and you will eventually "mis-drive"

Step into enough bath tubs and you will eventually "mis-step"

Come in contact with enough people with the flu and you eventually come into "mis-contact"

All of these activites are unavoidable every day activities, at least for those of us that must drive to work, and must bathe, and must contact people during the "living" of our life. Mis-steps in these activities are regretable, but unavoidable, as these activities must still be engaged in.

Hunting with a round in the pipe all the time is not a must for a successful hunt. Doing so adds surperfluous risk, much like, to build on your examples, driving wrecklessly, or having a six-pack before taking a bath, or hanging around especially contagious environments would add avoidable/unnecessary risk to these activities.

quote:

"Life" is full of risks but entering a state of paranoia is not what I would consider "living"

Certainly, if someone "feels" safer by not having a round in the chamber-- be my guest. But I COMPLETELY DISAGREE that it is in any way, shape or fashion an even remotely "unsafe" activity.......

These accidents happen every year, and most every one of them is particularly sad tragedy, often involving one family member or close friend shooting another. To claim that it is not even "remotely unsafe" is simply incorrect.

But whatever, to each their own. If minimizing the risk of hunting accident (without in any way affecting my shooting opportunites) by keeping the chamber empty until a sensible time, then I can live with being called "paranoid." However, it seems a bit of a funny title for the process of eliminating needless risk...

Hey Capt Jack, it'd be good for you to move on in life.

locked and loaded---chris

I posted this same question on an alaskan hunting forum outdoor directory, so far 1 out of nine responses are for empty tube, unless by themselves and packing meat. It seems funny to me that so far most of the alaskans who hunt in bear country every day choose to go chamber empty. I think a lot of this has to do with the fact that most of the lower 48 people just drive out to thier spot and sit in thier stand, they just don't understand wilderness hunting.

One in the pipe, safety on. I am somewhat selective about my safety for this reason.

Reasons for carrying this way are two-fold. First, I travel alot while hunting. Many miles on foot every season. It isn't uncommon to find me with elk sent on, blood on my hands, hiking in the dark in griz country. Usually prior to hibernation, during peak feeding. I carry a p229, but I know my 300 is my first line of defense. Long shot, but I try to be prepared.

Second, I have had multiple opportunities as a result of being prepared over not (admittedly, nearly all are passed on). It would certainly have cost me a decent 5 pt mulie this yr if I had not had a round in the pipe. No big deal, but it does make for more chances for a guy who covers ground, especially if you move quietly and occasionally come up on game in close quarters (~15 yds in timber on the mulie).

Finally, I will take the time to unchamber for the vehicle, steep climbs, etc. When I catch my breath before coming over a rise is when I re-chamber. I have a sling with bullet loops to place the extra round, making this convenient.

On the other hand, I descended a very steep and slick slope this year with a friend. After a long day, my friend did not unload the chamber. At the bottom of the hill and after many slips (~500 ft elevation loss), he noticed his rifle had slipped off safety. As I was behind and uphill the entire way, I was a little displeased. I think that we both learned a lesson about being sloppy, and we were very lucky.

quote:

Originally posted by Thebear_78:
I think a lot of this has to do with the fact that most of the lower 48 people just drive out to thier spot and sit in thier stand, they just don't understand wilderness hunting.

.................wow.

Idaho Vandal-

Before you get your panties in a bunch think about it. Most states, my home state of michigan is a prime example, don't have the miles and miles of public land to hunt on. Most hunting is done on small parcels of land hedged in on all sides by roads every half mile or so. When you big game hunt in these areas you drive to your feild, or woods, walk in to you hunting stand, and pop a squat waitin for the deer to come by. At best you might have to walk 1/4-1/2 mile to your stand. It would have never occured to me to not have a round in the chamber back home.

Unlike whitetails most animals up here aren't as quick to take off. They usually stick around long enough fot you to get a shot. I don't know how many times we will come running up on a bear or moose in the airboat and have it sit there staring at us for 30 seconds to a minute before they amble back into the brush. Without the constant contact with humans they tend to be more curious, where a deer would be in the next county shortly after hearing an airboat.

This is why so many people are hung up on the empty chamber thing. They don't realize that 80% of the time we are hunting it should really be called traveling, and glassing. The animals are a lot more spread out up here and you have an unbelievable amount of land to hunt.

Another thing is that hunting up here you must be more careful than back there. If you get hurt up here you can't just make it to your truck and drive to the hospital, there is a chance every day if you do something stupid you could die.

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
On the Alaska hunting forum a thread got off track and turned into a debate about the merits of hunting with a rifle with a round in the chamber or not.
My opinion is to hunt with no rounds in the chamber unless I am on final approach on a stalk, sitting on stand or following up a dangerous animal than can bite back.
What is your opinion?

I tend to agree with you on this one. Safety catches can, and do, fail. For me it's rounds in the mag, empty chamber until either the final approach on a stalk, or I'm in the blind.
For following up critters that bite back, round in the chamber, safety off, finger outside the triggerguard.
If others feel different, that's fine, but this has worked for me for 30 odd years, and I'm comfortable with it.
JMHO

Cheers, Dave.

I just did some time testing with my son a well season bolt gun user.

Rifle in both hands safety on time to the shot.
avg for 10 trys.
1 second.

Rifle in both hands safety off no round in the chamber avg for 10 trys.
2.5 seconds.

Now if you have a empty chamber and safety on the time would even be greater.

On your avg spot and stalk hunt you are not going to loose the chance.

When one is talking about shooting jumped game or running game.

Or even more important selfdefense the 1.5 second loss of time becomes very important.

For information I did not tell him why I wanted to time him.

It varies with the situation. If I'm sitting on stand a round is chambered. If I'm still hunting thick cover a round is chambered. If I'm hiking by myself generally a round is chambered. If I'm taking a break by the truck my rifle is empty. If I'm crossing a fence, ditch, crossing a creek on a log, climbing a steep face, climbing a tree stand it's empty. If I go on a guided hunt and the guide requests I respect his wishes and carry with the chamber empty. My gun handling habits don't change though whether the chamber is loaded or I "know" it's empty. My dad pounded the concept in my head when I was a kid that all guns should be treated as if they are loaded. A person who doesn't think the same way is a person I won't hunt with.

Jeff

Another perspective to consider. If your rifle is unloaded most of the time while on the hunt, that will become your default mindset. I'm willing to bet more people are unintentionally and negligently injured and killed with "unloaded" guns than ones that people know are loaded.

quote:

Originally posted by IdahoVandal:

quote:

Originally posted by Thebear_78:
I think a lot of this has to do with the fact that most of the lower 48 people just drive out to thier spot and sit in thier stand, they just don't understand wilderness hunting.

.................wow.

IdahoVandal, did you get the same impression from "ALL" of Thebear_78 posts as I did. He makes it seem like we in the lower 48 don't know how to hunt in the wilderness.
I have hunted all over Alaska included, and everyone I was around up there had a round in the chamber. But the whole problem here is, someone is trying to impose there will and make other feel as if they are wrong for having a round in the chamber.
Thebear_78 your way is not the only way. We all have the ability to make choices and we all have different ways of hunting. Being from Alaska does not make you a better hunter than "we" in the lower 48.
I don't have a round in the chamber while traveling in the truck, four wheeler, boat or whatever means. But when I leave my mode of travel I put a round in the chamber and put the safety on. If I climb into a tree stand or cross a fence I un load my gun. Once settled in, I put a round back in the chamber and put the safety on. Even in Alaska, when we left camp the rifles were loaded with a round in the chamber until we returned to camp. In camp the pistol was loaded and on our hip. Camp for use was tent city.

quote:

Another perspective to consider. If your rifle is unloaded most of the time while on the hunt, that will become your default mindset. I'm willing to bet more people are unintentionally and negligently injured and killed with "unloaded" guns than ones that people know are loaded.

I agree 100%. IMO your default mindset should always be that all guns are loaded all the time.

Jeff

I'm pretty much in agreement with Mark D. and Brad. When still-hunting on my own I have the chamber loaded and the safety on, or if I were a stand hunter, I'd have one in the spout. When it's slung on my back for serious hiking/climbing, when I'm in country where the method involves sitting and glassing, or when I'm hunting with someone else, the chamber is empty.

Snowwolfe:

I think some of us may not have properly read your original query. I agree that until ACTUALLY HUNTING ( Excuse the caps. I'm not shouting but there are no italics available for emphasis) there should be no need to carry a round in the chamber of a rifle. (There seems to be a touching faith by some in the effectiveness of safeties. A worn sear safety can slip at any time. And there are some people who have a positively nervous habit of testing the safety by pressing on the trigger.There's more of them out there than you might think) You mentioned about following someone up a rocky slope. Good example! ( I was raised by a father who drilled into me to always open a double before climbing over a stone wall. I always opened the action of a bolt action or lever action rifle when climbing over a wall. Every year it happens across the country that someone shoots himself or a companion while climbing over a wall or through a wire fence) We all know when actual hunting time arrives - and can chamber a round then (and, no, of course, I don't mean waiting until actual presence of game) There is no such thing as being too careful with a loaded firearm. It sounds to me like Alaskans are being very careful - which I always understood was the mark of the experienced shooter. Just my thoughts.

quote:

Originally posted by gerry375:
Snowwolfe:
It sounds to me like Alaskans are being very careful - which I always understood was the mark of the experienced shooter. Just my thoughts.

I have been doing it with one in the chamber for 35 years. I think I would qualify as one of the experienced shooter. It is all a matter of opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by Brad:
Hey Capt Jack, it'd be good for you to move on in life.

Brad, Can you tell me why he would need to move on? Your words are spoken from someone who must of never been in the military. If you have been in the military then you obviously never saw any combat.

Personally I don't trust safeties. I have the mag charged and the chamber empty until I'm either settled in the stand or have the target in sight. The exception is when I'm using my Krieghoff double, then it is decocked until I shoulder it. I'd rather miss an opportunity than have an AD

TerryR

The majority of the time, I hunt with single shot rifles, either Ruger #1s or a browning B-78. Doesn't make me a better hunter, but I do enjoy the challenge, weather permitting. It's a bitch trying for a second shot with frozen fingers, should a second shot be necessary.
However, I hunt with the chamber loaded. The clackety-clack of working the actions of these rifle will spook game a mile away.
The bolt guns I hunt with are usually either cased on a Mauser action with a safety that locks the firing pin ot a Winchester M70 with it's excellent safety. Do I trust them? Hell no! Any safety is nothing more than a mechanical device, and according to Murphy's Law, "Whatever can go wrong will go wrong." Muzzle control and the brain are the true safeties. One of the Hunter Ed instructors I teach with suggested wrapping a piece of red tape near the muzzle to make it more visible to the hunter carrying the rifle. That's not such a bad idea.
So, I'd say that 90 percent of the time, my chamber is loaded, regardless of the type of rifle I carry. In my vehicle, walking in rough terain and crossing fences are when I clear the chamber even when alone.
Paul B.