After following and contributing to to Post Energy Energy Development and Mule Deer Decline in Wy, the only thing accomplished was a few members started fighting about the same crap. I would think that with the experience of this group some intelligent solutions may be at hand.

I have talked to the CA Fish and Game folks and have come to the conclusion they really don't know was is causing the decline.

From that post,

quote:

I suspect that the reason for the decline of the Mule Deer is not as simple as we all would think as the decline of the Mule Deer in North East California is an issue with many unaswered questions.

There has not been the oil and gas development of Wyoming. Traditional migration routs have not be altered, there has been very little road development, and most hunting is controlled by very restrictive tag distribution.

While the Mountain Lion is protected, the decline started long before the protection went into effect.

In the X5B zone, the wild horse and burro has had some effect on the habitat, but It can't be blamed for the downturn in the other zones.

To the contrary, I have observed the very large number of Mule Deer (including some monster bucks) in and around the farming area and State Hunting Reserve in Shasta Valley. Here we have lots of private land, and the reserve is open for waterfowl and pheasant hunting only.

Lots of questions, few answeres

What do you think?

I know that mule deer populations int Eastern Oregon has declined for several years. No real habitat changes here that I can think of.

When talking to F&G staff it is clear that, although they have all sorts of theory's, they don't know why. One thing is clear though, the munber of predators is climbing (coyotes, bear, cougar) and that ain't gonna help the deer.

-Steve

Understand Steve. The largest Muley I ever saw was outside of French Glen 50 years ago(ouch). A rancher had jamed his rake on a bridge, we were helping him when this buck materialized out of a blade of grass and was gone. Great country.

As for the Northern California problem, my friend feels that the predator problem is larger than we think.

I am no expert, but having dealt with many F&G and DWR committees I have based a somewhat informed opinion. There are many influences which are negatively influencing mule deer.

-Predators. Ranching and fur industries kept predators at minimal populations during the Mule Deer bonanza. Poisons, now outlawed, easliy kept many predator populations low, thus allowing mule deer fawn recruitment to be high. Current predator populations do not allow for high fawn recruitment, thus mule deer populations can not rebound population reductions. Let look at Utah for example, 1 cougar kills an average of .7 deer a week. Utah alone estimates our cougar population around 2,000 cats. 35 x 2,000 = approx 70,000 deer killed. Utah has an estimated doe population of approx 200,000 which on a good year have .75 fawns per doe. So the recruitment .75 x 200,000 = 150,000. Hunters shoot around 30,000 bucks and cars kill around 30,000 deer. Of the 150,000 recruited to the population we now have 130,000 dead. Which means there are only around 20,000 new recruits to replace any old age deaths, winter kills, coyotes. (Bear take is significant also, as shown by Scat samples containing fawn hooves. But bear predation is hard to figure due to the fact that bears tend to eat fawns shortly after birth and before any real counts are made)

-Habitat. Mule deer are browsers. They tend to eat grasses only early in the year and need a browse habitat structure to fully thrive. Once again, ranching practices inthe early part of the 1900s allowed for grass harvest, which let browse plant communities grow. (Grass tends to choke out browse plants) The reduction of domestic grazing has led to grass replacing the browse communties.

-Elk. An animal that consumes 2 to 3 times the needs of a mule deer is direct competition for mule deer. As the plant community changes back to a grass base, the elk populations thrive. Elk will compete directly with deer as elk not only graze, but also browse heavily. Studies have shown that elk will also displace deer.

__Predation and Elk. An interesting theory has surfaced in the last year on the effects of mule deer and predation. Mule deer are the base food for some predators. When mule deer numbers drop due to drought or harsh winters the population is not allowed to rebound because of predation. Usually, as the prey species' population drops the predator species should also drop. BUT, the increased elk population allows predators to switch to elk in severe times of need, at the same time taking mule deer as prey. This high number of predators does not allow mule deer to rebound.

-Habitat Fragmentation. Oil developement, housing developement, Freeways, road ways, lakes, etc all contribute to a loss of availible habitat which mule deer need to survive.

-Increased access. ATVs, 600 to 1,200 yard guns, 60 power spotting scopes, shed hunting, all have some impact on mule deer populations.

-Death by a 1,000 cuts. There are many influences on mule deer. If you really want a good inside perspective of mule deer buy Val Geist's book on mule deer called "MULE DEER COUNTRY". It is a great read and can be found for around $15.

-----Look at Canada. Thier mule deer populations are increasing at a substantial rate. They are seeing mule deer farther north. Could there be a correlation between climate change and mule deer populations? Interesting to think about.

MC:

quote:

Habitat. Mule deer are browsers. They tend to eat grasses only early in the year and need a browse habitat structure to fully thrive. Once again, ranching practices inthe early part of the 1900s allowed for grass harvest, which let browse plant communities grow. (Grass tends to choke out browse plants) The reduction of domestic grazing has led to grass replacing the browse communties.

Am I reading that some range cattle would be helpful to the mule deer population? Your numbers on lion predation would indicate that California's protection of the lion indicate we have a very tough was to go.

No expert here either, some thoughts:

There are no wild burros or horses, only feral burros and horses. They compete with antelope, mule deer and big horn sheep for feed/land/etc. Feral horses have a wonderful marketing campaign behind them. They are a problem.

Montana had a significant decline many years ago but it APPEARS that there's been a bit of a rebound based on tag availability.

In rural areas in Montana, given the recent favorable weather, I've seen a significant in mule deer in the areas where I hunt (12 - 15 years non-scientific trend).

The increase in people moving to the West has had a significant impact on mule deer as they seem to move right to where the mulie habitat is.

I agree with MC, read Mule Deer Country, great book. Death by 1000 cuts is a good analogy.

Weather patterns (drought in the West), competition by elk, and predation, are the three biggest "cuts". I've got a copy of most of Val Geists books, and though I put question marks by a few of his conclusions, it's a must have for any conservationist.

All that said, graph moisture/precipitation (range condition) and elk population against mule deer population, and it'll jump out at you. Mule deer country IS cattle allotment country, and the number of cattle haven't been reduced to reflect drought conditions. When quality forage is not available, cattle will start hitting browse. FWIW, Dutch.

I was just looking at the deer harvest reports for NM from 97-98 through 04-05 and there is about a 50% decline in the number of Mule deer taken. While that sounds aweful there has also been a severe decline in the number of hunters. In the best year 23% had success and the worst had 18%. So the success rate has only changed marginally while the total number of deer taken has changed dramatically.

Maybe we are seeing less Mule deer because their are less eyes in the woods to see them?

quote:

There are no wild burros or horses, only feral burros and horses. They compete with antelope, mule deer and big horn sheep for feed/land/etc. Feral horses have a wonderful marketing campaign behind them. They are a problem.

I have observed this to be a problem in some of California X zones, especially X5B where they have made a mess of the springs.

Another thing to consider is that the populations of the Whitetails are higher then ever on the east coast even with the building boom.

The big difference is that we have had more rain then usual and mild winters. No draught here.

Here is a press release from the Utah DWR:

Can livestock grazing benefit wildlife?

Hardware Ranch hosts a public open house March 24 in Wellsville

WELLSVILLE — A major study to learn the ways livestock grazing might be used to improve wildlife habitat is among the many programs at the Hardware Ranch Wildlife Management Area this year.

"As we look at the busy year ahead, we need to tell people what's happening at the ranch," says Dan Christensen, superintendent of the Hardware Ranch WMA, which is about 15 miles east of Hyrum.

"Our programs are creating changes on the landscape, as well as in classrooms and in our community."

About 1,000 cattle will be released onto portions of the ranch around April 1 as a study continues to determine whether prescriptive livestock grazing can be used to improve wildlife habitat, especially in places too steep or rocky to use heavy equipment or other traditional methods.

The cattle will initially graze along the steep hillside about six miles above SR-101, the main road in Blacksmith Fork Canyon. Then the cattle will be moved among five other areas on the ranch throughout the summer.

"The number of cattle and the effects they're having on the range will be obvious to people as they come up the canyon to camp, fish and hike this spring," Christensen says. "The study will affect many areas of the ranch throughout the summer. We want to explain why we think this study is important and let people know that they can still use most of the ranch this year."
*****This was a public invitation to tell people why they are grazing this parcel of State Lands.

Dutch, I don't know about Idaho, but many of Utah's ranges have had cattle allotments cut by up to 80%, totaling a reduction of public lands grazed cattle by over 200,000 statewide. I do agree with you 100% on the negative impacts which occur because of the increased elk populations.

quote:

Another thing to consider is that the populations of the Whitetails are higher then ever on the east coast even with the building boom.

The big difference is that we have had more rain then usual and mild winters. No draught here.

No, the big difference is that whitetails and mule deer are 2 seperate beasts and can not be compared to one another when talking about factors in population. They eat different foods, have different reproductive rates, have different defense mechanisms, live in different enviornments (for the most part), etc. Comparing mule deer to whitetails is like comparing a mule deer to a jackrabbit.

quote:

Originally posted by mt Al:
No expert here either, some thoughts:

There are no wild burros or horses, only feral burros and horses. They compete with antelope, mule deer and big horn sheep for feed/land/etc. Feral horses have a wonderful marketing campaign behind them. They are a problem.


The increase in people moving to the West has had a significant impact on mule deer as they seem to move right to where the mulie habitat is.

mt AL,

You have everything right, my friend! The great influxe of population into critical wintering ranges and migration routes, poaching in rural areas around the MANY gold mines, and the idiotic protection of feral horses and burros have all caused a crash in mule deer here in Nevada. Drought, followed by heavy winters is another big killer.

One of the biggest factors in the mule deer decline is the condition of the range and browse after cattle and feral animals work it over. Horses eat the grass. When thtas gone they eat up the browse. In prolonged drought conditions, the horses are fed by do-gooders, while deer have no browse and starve.

I agree with Mt.Al. There is also a train of thought that says that the numbers of Mulies during the heyday of the 50's and 60's was anamolous and that they are simple going back to their historic numbers. That's hard for me to believe due to the increase in the number of predators, development of winter range, loss of browse to grasslands and the encroachment of white tails and elk onto what was historically mule deer range.

We all know winter kill (snow/ice) can play a role but I had a WY G&F officer tell me once that Midges (no-see-'um) were spreading a disease to Mulies. They are concentrated around small water holes especially during a drought. They infest the deer at the water hole and spread the disease which in certain areas was having a devastating effect on the Mule Deer.

quote:

Dutch, I don't know about Idaho, but many of Utah's ranges have had cattle allotments cut by up to 80%, totaling a reduction of public lands grazed cattle by over 200,000 statewide. I do agree with you 100% on the negative impacts which occur because of the increased elk populations.

Out here, particularly in the central parts of the state (Custer and Lemhi counties), everything has been "business as usual". Essentially, no supervision. The range is actually in pretty decent shape in the Caribou National forest in the South.

The only thing worse than the range conditions in the Salmon National Forest is the range condition on State lands. They make you want to cry..... JMO, Dutch.

Where is IV? He is a mule deer guru!

quote:

Originally posted by L. David Keith:
We all know winter kill (snow/ice) can play a role but I had a WY G&F officer tell me once that Midges (no-see-'um) were spreading a disease to Mulies. They are concentrated around small water holes especially during a drought. They infest the deer at the water hole and spread the disease which in certain areas was having a devastating effect on the Mule Deer.

You're talking about Epizootic Hemorrhagic Disease.

MG

quote:

You're talking about Epizootic Hemorrhagic Disease.

Where is it endemic?

quote:

Where is it endemic?

Pretty much most of the US. It is known around these parts as "blue tongue".

MG

quote:

Originally posted by MC:
I am no expert, but having dealt with many F&G and DWR committees I have based a somewhat informed opinion. There are many influences which are negatively influencing mule deer.

-Predators.

-Habitat.

-Elk.

__Predation and Elk.

-Habitat Fragmentation.

-Increased access.

-Death by a 1,000 cuts.

-----Look at Canada.

DANG! Dead on! Not very many guys have the broad view--of course I agree with you so I may be biased

I wouldn't put predators at the top of the list though. Predator densities are probably not as high as pre-Euorpean settlement times, but mule deer desities in most parts of their historic range are most likely within their normal pre-settlement range.

What we saw in the 60's and 70's was almost certainly a gross overpopulation of muleys

I grew up in the Uncompahgre Valley of Western Colorado. In the 60's-70's it was speculated to have the highest ungulate densities anywhere outside of Africa along with the Piceance Basin west of Meeker--and back then it was almost exclusively muleys.

Not very many people are aware of the widespread poisoning that was finally halted in the 70's. In my neck of the woods they used to drop 5 gallon buckets of poison bait out of the Super Cub window around sheep allotments. And the poison killed EVERYTHING that ate it.

There has been no correlation between the elk population explosion and the muley decline, but many biologists think there is one.

In the 60's and 70's there were an estimated 1.1 million deer in Colorado--mostly muleys. By the early 90's there were an estimated 550,00 deer.

On the flip side, in 1960 there were an estimated 50,000 elk in Colorado. By 1980 120,00 elk. By 1990 200,00+ elk. By the late 90's some biologists though they were pushing 300,00 elk. Since that time the numbers have been reduced some.

Nobody has been able to correlate it, but the muley declines jibe nicely with elk increases.

It's also about growth curves, and predators, and short term and long term weather patterns (ie: habitat). When a wildlife population (predator or prey) is in that exponential growth phase as mule deer were by the late 1940's and elk by the 1970's, they seem to be "bullet proof". No amount of regulated sport hunting, or predator populations, or disease seems to make much difference--they keep right on growing and expanding. And these populations will often "shoot through" their carrying capacity--sometimes way past it. But when they start their decline--it seems EVERYTHING affects them.

But I would put predators towards the bottom of the list. Deer and coyotes most certainly evolved together in the Great Basin/Rocky Mountains. And muleys evolved with wolves already in place (along with elk).

The number one cause of muley decline?--fire suppression. When the Taylor Grazing Act was passed in the 1930's and the number of livestock began to be significantly reduced on public lands, there was this huge flush of new growth, and browse was probably the first to benefit. As noted, muleys are browsers. But almost at the same time we began to become much more effective at putting out wildfires. This is especially true at the lower elevations where fires were easier to stop (less growth to burn).

The studies done so far on muleys here in Colorado suggest that poor winter habitat, and maybe more importantly poor transition habitat (spring and fall) MAY possibly be a factor. Most speculation revolves around a higher than expected predation of fawns can be attributed to poorer nutritional status of the does, which in turn result in poorer nutritional status of fawns--all of which intuitively makes them more susceptible to predation. Also many of the fawns that have been caught as neonates on studies appear to have colds and possibly pnuemonia. In that state many of those fawns "low scent" is reduced--in turn reducing one of their most important defenses.

That and habitat fragmentation, roads and a huge increase in the effectivness of motorized vehicles, and now the fact the interior west has been in a relatively dry period for almost 25 years, are my favorite "villians".....

It's time to go back to sleep, I was just getting off the couch after a long day to turn off the computer and end up writing a dissertation

Casey

I should have said the list was in no particular order. I imagine that predators are #1 in some areas such as California, Developement in other areas, etc. Blue tongue is a nasty disease, but mule deer populations can rebound after the disease the same they do after a harsh winter. The problem does occur when population levels go so low that predation (predators, cars or bullets) does not allow for a successful rebound. There are many different causes and no silver bullet solutions.

quote:

Originally posted by kudu56:
Where is IV? He is a mule deer guru!

......thats all I'm sayin'.......

IV