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I'm gun shopping,just bouncing around options. I want to get a small light rifle for shooting eastern whitetail and groundhogs. I want enough caliber to put a deer down with some authority, I know there is a fair amount of debate on this. But my preference would be to go above a .243. And I would like a speed at least in the 2400fps range. I would probably like a 6.5 caliber in something like a break action single shot. Enough power, in a compact rifle, that won't pound me. 200 yds max. Sand Creek November 29 1864 | ||
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A 6.5x55,.260 win,7x57and 7mm08 come to mind. "The lady doth protest too much, methinks" Hamlet III/ii | |||
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A 7x57 would fit the bill nicely,just don't know what is available in the single shot rifle biz. | |||
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.257 Roberts and 25-06 seem ideal for this. .260 and 6.5x55 are also solid choices. | |||
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I have found 6.5 X 55 100 gr hp to be devastating on ground hogs. 130 to 140 gr flat base soft nose on deer sized game. | |||
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Another vote for either the .257 Roberts or 25-06 Gray Ghost Hunting Safaris http://grayghostsafaris.com Phone: 615-860-4333 Email: hunts@grayghostsafaris.com NRA Benefactor DSC Professional Member SCI Member RMEF Life Member NWTF Guardian Life Sponsor NAHC Life Member Rowland Ward - SCI Scorer Took the wife the Eastern Cape for her first hunt: http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6881000262 Hunting in the Stormberg, Winterberg and Hankey Mountains of the Eastern Cape 2018 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/4801073142 Hunting the Eastern Cape, RSA May 22nd - June 15th 2007 http://forums.accuratereloadin...=810104007#810104007 16 Days in Zimbabwe: Leopard, plains game, fowl and more: http://forums.accuratereloadin...=212108409#212108409 Natal: Rhino, Croc, Nyala, Bushbuck and more http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6341092311 Recent hunt in the Eastern Cape, August 2010: Pics added http://forums.accuratereloadin...261039941#9261039941 10 days in the Stormberg Mountains http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/7781081322 Back in the Stormberg Mountains with friends: May-June 2017 http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/6001078232 "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history when everybody stands around reloading" - Thomas Jefferson Every morning the Zebra wakes up knowing it must outrun the fastest Lion if it wants to stay alive. Every morning the Lion wakes up knowing it must outrun the slowest Zebra or it will starve. It makes no difference if you are a Zebra or a Lion; when the Sun comes up in Africa, you must wake up running...... "If you're being chased by a Lion, you don't have to be faster than the Lion, you just have to be faster than the person next to you." | |||
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I am a dedicated fan of the .257 Roberts and, in my estimation, it is the perfect Mule Deer rifle. However, from your question, I'm guessing that you are not a reloader and there, the Roberts fails in that there are few, if any varmint offerings for the Roberts. The 25-06 has a superior selection of factory ammo, but I find the noise to be objectionable. Get a .243. There are some great offerings in factory ammo for both varmints and for deer. In my limited experience, Whitetails are smaller than Mulies, so don't need all that much ker-wham, just an accurate shot. With a 100 grain bullet, the .243 will be about 200fps slower than my Roberts, big deal! Instead of a single-shot, consider the Stevens model 200 in .243. Knowing that there's another round availabe, quickly. takes one worry away. The mdl 200 costs just a few dollars more than a single-shot and the weight will be about the same. | |||
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I'd try the 6.5 X 284 or 25-06. Both great for deer or varmints. May depend on if you reload like Chop901 mentioned. I personally like a little more gun than a .243. Just encase you have a bad angle on a big ole bruiser. God Bless, Louis | |||
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270 wsm Good round for anything out to elk. You can reach out and touch it. Those who pound their swords into plowshares will be plowing for those of us who don't | |||
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First cartridge that came to mind after reading your opening post was a 6.5x55. Then, a 257 roberts. After rereading and seeing your 200 yard max. I think a 6.5 grendel, or that type of cartridge may serve your purpose very well. | |||
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How about a 6.5x30-30 AI (aka 6.5 Bullberry IMP)in a Contender or G2? It drives a 140 grain bullet to 2500 fps from a 26" barrel, a 129/130 to 2600 and burns just 37.5 grains of N160 to do so. Mine has served me well for both deer and hogs -- not to mention a few varmints -- out to nearly 300 yards. Recoil is nil.  Bobby Μολὼν λαβέ The most important thing in life is not what we do but how and why we do it. - Nana Mouskouri | |||
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260 remington Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Dear Frank 4570: As a Pennsylvania white tail deer and groudhog hunter I can tell you from experience that a 243 Winchester kills both with ease. If you want a single shot, how about a Ruger #1? Or, find an older (pre-1990, better yet, pre-1970) Model 700 ADL Remington, a featherweight Model 70 or a Sako L-579 (which I own presently, and its incredibly accurate). They are effortless to carry around. Personally, I prefer the 6mm Remington cartridge over the 243 Winchester, and am building one as a varmint rifle on a 1943 Brno Mauser. There were plenty of Model 700's in 6mm Remington produced. I've had a 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser in a Sako that was about perfect, too. Sincerely, Chris Bemis | |||
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That bullberry would be the gun,that or the 6.5 jdj, I even have 2 contender frames. But the package is a bit more than I would like to spend. I do reload. Thanks for the great suggestions. Sand Creek November 29 1864 | |||
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Assuming you handload, get a .243. It is by far the best of any caliber mentioned (along with 6mm Rem) for woodchucks, and it will take down a deer as quickly as any larger caliber. My "assuming you handload" remark is due to most .243 ammunition being mysteriously underloaded by the factories. Most 100 grain "deer" rounds will stumble out of the muzzle about 2700 fps when 3000 fps is easily achievable from a 22" or longer barrel. If you don't handload, get a 6mm Remington. For whatever reason, its factory ammunition is loaded much closer to the cartridge's potential. For a non-handloader a .257 Roberts, due to its non-sensically low SAAMI pressure limit, would be a regression from the 6mm Remington. As to the rifle itself, I'm not sure why you are interested in a single-shot. A quality bolt action can be used as a single shot. It is much handier to operate from a prone position such as you might use for woodchucks, and it gives you the option of quick follow-up shots when deer hunting. Your choices are a bit limited in 6mm Rem, but almost everyone makes a .243 Win. | |||
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I use a 7TCU in my Contender.It has a 24" Barrel and gets 2,665 with a 120 gr.-ballistic tip.Will for sure put down a deer or ground hog with little recoil and is very frugal on powder. | |||
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# 1= .257 Roberts #2= 6.5x55 Swede #3= .243 just that easy............. | |||
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.260 7-08 Aim for the exit hole | |||
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My hunting style is in very close. Most groundhog shots around here are in the 100 to 200 yard range. My last 2 were at 1 yard and 12 yards.Last deer were 17 yards and 12 yards. I move very slowly and deliberately, very close to the game I am hunting. I want a rifle that is compact and light. Sand Creek November 29 1864 | |||
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[/QUOTE] My hunting style is in very close. Most groundhog shots around here are in the 100 to 200 yard range. My last 2 were at 1 yard and 12 yards.Last deer were 17 yards and 12 yards. I move very slowly and deliberately, very close to the game I am hunting. I want a rifle that is compact and light.[/QUOTE] Win Mod 94 in 30/30 | |||
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At those ranges, you need a bow. The heck with the rifles. | |||
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.243 works fine for both of those game, with plenty of authority. Shot placement is king. In fact, there happens to be a nice one listed in the classifieds............  Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum | |||
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I saw a really neat Ruger #1 at the Quigley in 6,5x55 Swede. That would fit the bill nicely. Rich DRSS | |||
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I'd probably by a Browning whatever caliber, those Japanese built guns are consistently quite accurate for me. I see used ones on Alaska List from 4-8 hundred all the time. I used my 7 mag for woodchucks back east for years, shot many many deer; and now in Alaska the same gun has got 16 moose, and literally hundreds of caribou. If I had it to do all over again, I'd get a 300 mag though. | |||
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Zhurh Why? seems like 7mm has worked out pretty well for you | |||
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Zhurh So you used a "7 mag for woodchucks back east for years"? Where is "back east" to you? -and the farmers must have been very tolerant in your neck of the woods! Chucks are usually found in dairy farm country and I can't imagine very many dairy farmers allowing the bellow of a 7mm Mag anywheres near their milk producers (the milk sold ,hopefully, for real money) I used to use a 220 Swift -and often had great trouble persuading farmers to allow it. {In honesty, I told them of the earsplitting crack} My selling argument was that it was a chuck killer and that I would kill every chuck I shot at - something of a "misspoke" since my shots were often at ranges of up to 600 yards  -nonetheless the farmers usually allowed me on their properties because cows stepping in a chuck hole (usually the "hide away exit hole"-the "back hole" that doesn't have the mound of dirt on it)represented, often, a broken leg and having to send the cow to slaughter. BTW,back when I used to do this, (when dinosaurs roamed in the back fields)the 220 Swift (48 gr.) was claimed to be a white tail deer killer. It was illegal to use on deer in NY but I do know that the rumor of such was common. | |||
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I talked to my gunsmith friend. I think what we are going to do is get a mauser action and build a nice accurate 6.5x55 in a carbine type configuration, with a short barrel and light stock. Sand Creek November 29 1864 | |||
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Why above a .243? For the use you spoke of I cannot see any need for bigger. Personal preference I guess. 70 grain for the varmints; 95 grain for the deer. Has always worked well for me. And if I had to pick a lightweight reliable rifle, I'd pick a Remington model 7, probably stainless for your area. "When you play, play hard; when you work, don't play at all." Theodore Roosevelt | |||
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7X57. 'Nuff said. | |||
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A 6x45 mm has just enough energy and is legal in most places, makes either a nice light rifle or a very accurate one with a little more barrel weight. It's not hard to reload either. TomP Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right, when wrong to be put right. Carl Schurz (1829 - 1906) | |||
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There you go. | |||
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You will absolutely not be sorry with the 6.5x55. It's an incredibly versatile round and quite frankly it's my favorite! Just good all around for many uses and can be made into some very lite compact rifles. Curtis | |||
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me too i vote for 6,5x55, there are plenty of factory loaded accurate ammo . recoil is minimal . i have seen school boys age low as 10 years old shooting plenty of rounds per day at shooting range and and is plenty for deer and even much bigger games with heavy 156 gr bullets. Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. | |||
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That's exactly what I was thinking. Lipseys had a special run of stainless 1As in 6.5x55 a few years ago. It would be nice to snag one of them. **************** NRA Life Benefactor Member | |||
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call me traditional--- 200 yards max, don't pound me, bigger than .243---- marlin 336 in 30-30 | |||
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243 6.5x55 7mm Mauser You can reload to meet your needs! When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults! | |||
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Shop around and find a Mannlicher Schoenauer Model 1903 in 6.5x54MS. It isn't a single shot, but will only weigh about 6 lbs fully loaded. Plus, it has the smoothest bolt action ever made. Factory ammo is not easy to find, but components are and you can load anything from varmint pills to a 160 gr round nose. Biggest drawback is the price. You probably won't find one for less than $1500. If that's an issue, get anything chanbered for 6.5x55 and go forth to slay the game. | |||
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MAC I reawd your post at the end of the thread -and you caught my eye with the reference to a Mannlicher Schoenauer. A brother of mine (I had three of them)brought one back that he had "liberated" - as the expression went after WW2. I believe it was a 6.5x55. Don't hold me to that. In any event, there was no reloading industry right after the war and a 16 year old (me) was put off by the Mannlicher's fore end (Today, I love it)so I swapped it for I don't even know what today. You are right about what a comfortable firearm it is. (I always thought that the Savage 99 in 250-3000 came closest to that Mannlicher Schoenauer) Worse gun swap I ever made in my life. Thanks a lot for reminding me!) | |||
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Frank, The first cartridge that came to my mind was the 243 Winchester. ________ Ray | |||
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Well, I have a few Ruger #1's so can state that they're very nice rifles and yes, I do hunt with them. But the rifle that immediately came to mind was the Ruger M77 RSI, the one with the Mannlicher style stock in none other than the .308 Win. The rifle won't weigh much more than a Winchester m94 or marlin 336 if you put that receiver sight that is made to go on the rear scope base. If you prefer a scope, a compact 2X or 3X or one of the 1,5x4.5X light weight variables would work out very nicely. I have one of those rifles with a 1.5x6X Simmons Whitetail scope on it and it's capable of taking Mule Deer out to at least 250 yards. I haven't had to shoot farther that that and most shots were a hell of a lot closer. One was at 35 feet and most between 35 to 75 yards, and this in the wide open spaces of Nevada and Arizona. If you like that style rifle, you might get lucky and find one in 7x57 (wish I could find one that was affordable)and I think some were made in 6.5x55 and 7MM08. Of course, if you want a single shot break open, there's always the H&R. Be a lot less expensive that either the browning or the Ruger. Paul B. | |||
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