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I thought that this essay brought up a lot of interesting points. https://freerangeamerican.us/m...unting-social-media/

I had to take a look at why I post what I post. I have to admit that I didn't like some of what I came up with.

After this article was published it caused a ripple through the hunting "social media influencer" world. One interesting tidbit that has come to light is that once of the most respected influencers(one that I really respected, anyway) was actually accepting money from the Arizona Department of Wildlife for promoting hunting in Arizona through his social media channel. So, in effect, his hunting show was being used as an infomercial not only for his sponsor's products, but also to lure out of state hunters to Arizona.



quote:




OPINION: UNFOLLOWING HUNTING SOCIAL MEDIA WILL MAKE HUNTING BETTER
OPINION & ESSAY
DECEMBER 20, 2021 By Matt Rinella

Over the past decade, hunters have increasingly publicized pictures and videos of their kills to large audiences on social media. This monumental change in hunting norms occurred gradually and with little thought for its consequences. These consequences are overwhelmingly negative. Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for sharing photos of harvested game with friends and family. I strongly support individuals and organizations that use social media to cover issues of importance to the hunting community. But it is time to unfollow hunters who post pictures of dead animals to hundreds, thousands, or even millions of, mostly, strangers.

Social media has corrupted our motivations for hunting and is risking the future of the very activity we love so much. Traditionally, we hunters took to the woods for hides, horns, meat, personal enjoyment, and a sense of self-reliance. Now, for the first time in human history, many seek a digital harvest. Rather than butchering meat for the freezer or tanning a hide, these kinds of hunters mostly want photos on their iPhones to beam out across the internet. More than cooking and eating what they shoot, they’re interested in exchanging it for likes and followers — and even corporate sponsorships in gear and dollars.

With my last name, this may strike some as a curious position. I’m the brother of Steve Rinella, the founder of MeatEater and maybe the most influential hunter in America today. While I dearly love Steve and am close with some of his coworkers, I’ve come to realize their approach — and the approach of many others — of blending hunting and media, and their efforts to publicize and commodify hunting and wildlife via every available digital platform, undermine hunters everywhere. It’s easy to forget these days that people can remain friends despite vehemently disagreeing, but we’ve managed to do just that.

My argument starts with the fact that, in much of the US, public-land hunting is so overcrowded it’s no longer worth it. The mainstream and hunting media have run articles bemoaning declines in hunter participation for years, but this is utter nonsense. The number of hunters is extremely difficult to determine, and even if hunter numbers have dipped slightly since the 1980s when US Fish and Wildlife Service data indicate they peaked, it’s irrelevant. Existing hunters are hunting more. When I crunched the data, it became clear that hunting license sales increased a whopping 30% between the 1980s and 2010s, and then the COVID-19 hunting boom increased hunter and license numbers even more. So, even if there are a few less hunters, those hunters are buying more licenses and spending more time crowding the woods.

Also, since the 1980s, the American landscape has changed in major ways. The US population size has increased by a third, the square footage of housing per person has doubled, and many former hunting spots are consequently residential neighborhoods now. The US simply doesn’t have the habitat needed to support the wildlife and hunters it used to.

This graph shows relatively stable hunting license holders with an increase in licenses sold. Matt Rinella
As a result, big game draw odds have plummeted, private lands are increasingly leased for hunting and thus off-limits to the public, and public land hunting often begins with struggling to find parking at the trailhead, followed by struggling to find animals so pressured they suffer from PTSD. According to 2017 survey data, over half of hunters have abandoned spots due to crowding. In short, hunter numbers have grown beyond what the resource can support. I believe social media is largely responsible for this because it draws people afield under false pretenses and encourages hunting for unjust reasons.

I’d be remiss if I ignored my own history with hunting social media. I was never big on posting grip-and-grins online. Years ago, I completely stopped after seriously asking myself why I wanted lots of people to see what I had shot. Upon reflection, I realized bragging was my sole motivation. This troubled me. I’ve always had a low tolerance for bragging by others, so I disliked realizing I was guilty of it myself. It didn’t help that I was bragging about dead animals harvested for food. This seemed more consequential and perverse than the soccer trophies, kitchen remodels, and other inane shit people brag about online.

The Negative Consequences of Hunting Social Media
For proof that social media, and hunting television, are increasing hunter numbers on already overcrowded public lands, consider what hunting influencers sell their followers on Facebook and Instagram and through their TV shows. In addition to hunting products, influencers like my brother sell books that teach rudimentary hunting, game cooking, and backcountry survival skills. Many are now teaching classes where students learn elementary woodsmanship, game calling, map reading, and strategies for applying for tags.

The target audience for all this is clearly hunting-curious nonhunters because seasoned hunters don’t need 101-level how-to content. If you have any doubt that motivating people to hunt and selling them products is big business, consider how many influencers do it. Here, for example, are more than 200 of them on Instagram. In addition to inspiring people to hunt, influencers inspire people to become fellow influencers. They do this partly by example and partly by teaching the relevant skills to do so, like how to attract sponsors and how to film their hunts. In other words, influencers motivate people to hunt for the same shitty ego- and profit-motivated reasons they hunt themselves.

Top hunting influencers like to call themselves conservationists, but the fact of the matter is influencers are terrible for habitat. No matter how great areas look in terms of feed and cover, game can’t live where there are hunters on every ridge. That’s exactly the situation influencers have created in their quest for more hunter-customers. Most influencers don’t have to hunt the places they’ve blown up because they largely hunt private land, take expensive trips to remote hunting destinations, and enter pricey limited tag lotteries throughout the US and beyond.

Influencers like to believe they’re elevating our reputation among the nonhunting public, but social media has severely damaged our reputation among nonhunters as well as reduced hunting opportunity. For example, read about the banning of grizzly bear hunting in British Columbia or watch The Women Who Kill Lions on Netflix. Or Google something like “social media hunting controversy” and settle in for a very long read.

Moreover, hunting influencers routinely engage in selfish, greedy behavior that poses threats to our reputation among nonhunters. Generating enough content to gain big followings and attract sponsors necessitates gobbling up tags and killing more than one needs. Top influencers commonly kill three or more elk a year along with a variety of other game. If you’re reading this, you’re probably following several of them right now.

If I was a nonhunter doing a quick scan of hunting social media, my gut response would be one of shock. It is a cornucopia of carcasses with zero explanation of what they plan to do with all that meat. If you’re a nonhunter reading this, please believe many traditional hunters are as disgusted by all this greed as you are. Traditional hunters believe wild game is a precious resource, and we harvest only what we need to eat between seasons, thereby increasing the chances for other hunters to take an animal.

Hunting social media is also horrible for public access. Friends growing up in the rural Montana community where I live remember freely hunting the surrounding ranchlands. A tractor repairman friend remembers having permission to hunt a 100-plus-mile swath running from eastern Montana all the way to South Dakota. Access started dwindling in the late 1980s with the advent of cable-TV hunting shows. These shows increased the appeal of hunting to the point where people became willing to pay big money to lease private hunting lands. Nowadays, it’s laughable to think banging on doors will result in hunting permissions in this prairie country because years of social media hype have made un-pressured ground so rare and monetarily valuable that landowners can’t resist charging for it. Hunting influencers like to pretend fellow hunters are their stakeholder group, but their real stakeholders are large landowners and the hunting industry.

Social media hunters further degrade opportunities for traditional hunters by deceiving people into thinking hunting is something it’s not. When famous hunting personalities pay to kill elk on ranches that are off-limits to the public, what they’re doing is more like slaughtering livestock than hunting wild elk. If that’s what gets them off, great, but putting videos of their “hunts” on social media without indicating they are stalking areas off-limits to the public dupes legions of newbies into thinking publicly accessible basins are brimming with bulls just waiting to be shot. Nothing says, “let them eat cake,” quite like using social media to inundate traditional public land hunters with throngs of aspiring hunting influencers while stalking quasi-domestic wildlife on private ranches.

I can’t understand being proud enough of this fantasy hunting to film it or brag about it on podcasts. Aren’t the videos a tacit admission one lacks the tenacity for real hunting? Many traditional hunters think so. I’d rather kill a one-eyed calf with a limp on public land than a half-tame giant that’s only accessible to people who can afford to pay for it. At a bare minimum, these “hunters” should explain to their followers that they’ve paid to stalk glorified cattle at hunting amusement parks. Then they could give a virtual tour of the lodge and a cost breakdown.

Here is perhaps the biggest problem with hunting social media: It is blatantly dishonest. It doesn’t take much hunting experience or familiarity with wound-loss data to see that social media hunters regularly hide the sorrowful side of killing animals for sport and meat. Social media shows too many smiling faces and too few fading blood trails. I know hunters that upload their grip-n-gloats before the meat cools when things go right but post nothing at all when they wound and lose game. Even major hunting publications encourage this lying by omission by discouraging hunters from posting videos of poorly hit game.

“KEEP ON HUNTING, BUT POST NOTHING IN 2022. THIS WILL PROVE YOU’VE MOVED PAST THE ATTENTION-SEEKING TODDLER STAGE IN YOUR DEVELOPMENT AS A HUNTER AND NOW GO AFIELD FOR MATURE REASONS.”

Showing only the happy parts attracts people to hunting on false premises, which is deeply unfair. It causes people to gear up and head afield thinking they’ll simply pull the trigger and drag their winter meat back to the truck. It’s not a true representation. The cold, hard fact is that pulling the trigger sometimes results in wounded animals and severe regret. This is especially true for new hunters. If influencers insist on recruiting new hunters and selling them gear, they should at least have the decency to ensure these hunters go into it with their eyes wide open. Of course, honest social media that consistently shows wound loss would provoke public outrage. As such, the influencers have painted themselves into a corner: Showing only the happy parts is lying and showing everything could destroy hunting. If they want to stop lying while maintaining our right to hunt, the only option is to take hunting offline.

What’s Lost if We Stop Posting Harvested Game?
As long as there have been cameras, hunters have been taking pictures with their game animals. Before the internet, these photos were displayed in albums and sometimes on walls in sporting goods stores. While the pictures aren’t new, the motivations for showing them, and the numbers and types of people that see them, have changed dramatically. Instead of a few family members or hunters in bait shops seeing the images, they are broadcast to everyone willing to look at them across the internet. This mass posting of dead game has become so common that it’s tempting to think something virtuous might be lost if we stop doing it.

To determine what’s at stake, I recently asked eight hunters who are widely followed on social media why they show us what they shoot. If they can’t explain why looking at what they kill is indispensable to the future of hunting, who can?

Does showing an animal processed, cooked, and eaten make hunting more palatable to nonhunters? Adobe
Their responses included “picture storage” and “informing friends what I’ve been doing.” Both are goals easily achieved without hundreds or thousands of followers. Most other motivations I heard about clearly don’t benefit the hunting community, such as “gaining credibility as a hunter” and “being addicted to the adoration” of followers, as two interviewees put it. One said, “It’s only worth [posting dead game] if people buy something,” and six of the eight admitted bragging was a motivation.

One motivation mentioned to me that demands more serious consideration is “celebrating the animal.” This could ostensibly benefit the hunting community as it could be seen as a positive to nonhunters watching. But do they mean celebrating the animal’s magnificence? If so, why not stick to photos of living animals? All animals look way better alive. Do they mean celebrating the animal’s life like we do loved ones at funerals? If so, why don’t we post pictures of open caskets to celebrate departed loved ones? When people say they show thousands of people what they shoot “to honor the animal,” much as I want to believe their motives are pure, all I hear is “to honor my abilities.” They’re honoring themselves, not the animal.

One interviewee said his motivation was to “portray hunting honestly” as a counter to all the dishonest depictions on social media and television. I’m positive this interviewee provides warts-and-all depictions of real hunting. I know the guy. He once released a heartbreaking video involving an elk he wounded. Nevertheless, it’s impossible to regularly consume hunting social media without regularly consuming bullshit, and there’s no way to distinguish the truth from the half-truths and outright lies.

Another motivation cited by the social media hunters I spoke with was promoting acceptance of hunting by illustrating field-to-table connectivity. To me, it’s a stretch to think nonhunters learn anything profound that revolutionizes their views on hunting when we post dead deer followed by a recipe for venison osso buco.

What Should We Do About It?
My brother Dan has joked about developing an internet-enabled rifle scope that automatically uploads kill shots to a hunter’s social media feed. His joke illustrates how hopelessly entangled social media is with hunting. Prospects for disentangling the two seem dim. Once before, however, hunters did abandon a common practice that wasn’t serving them. Through the 1980s, visibly transporting big game on vehicles was common. Then, in the 1990s and early 2000s, sportsmen’s groups, hunting magazines, and game management agencies began encouraging hunters to conceal carcasses to avoid offending nonhunters. The campaign seems to have worked some because I don’t see as many predominantly displayed deer on the highway as I used to.

If we unfollow hunting social media, we’ll do much more than avoid further public relations problems. We’ll be better, happier, and more successful hunters. In addition to no longer completely wasting time and suffering other downsides of staring at phones, we’ll stop contributing to a system that:

Incentivizes hunting for the wrong reasons
Diminishes draw odds
Crowds public hunting grounds
Makes wildlands uninhabitable for wildlife
Pays landowners to lock out the public
Degrades our reputation among nonhunters
The solution to all this is simple. I’m appealing to hunting influencers: Stop posting it. I’m appealing to hunting content consumers: Stop following it. I’m appealing to all hunters everywhere: Get on board with my New Year No Post Challenge. Keep on hunting, but post nothing in 2022. This will prove you’ve moved past the attention-seeking toddler stage in your development as a hunter and now go afield for mature reasons. More importantly than proving it to others, you’ll prove it to yourself. Is hunting still fun without the likes?

When it comes to hunting, we should take our lead from the Ju/’hoansi people of the Kalahari Desert, a hunter-gatherer tribe that the anthropologist Richard Borshay Lee studied in the 1960s and 1970s. Ju/’hoansi customs strongly encouraged humility, as quotes from a tribesman illustrate:

“Say that a man has been hunting. He must not come home and announce like a braggart, ‘I have killed a big one in the bush!’ He must first sit down in silence until I or someone else comes up to his fire and asks, ‘What did you see today?’ He replies quietly, ‘Ah, I’m no good for hunting. I saw nothing at all…maybe just a tiny one.’ Then I smile to myself because I know he has killed something big.”

The contrast between Ju/’hoansi hunters and social media hunters couldn’t be sharper. These humble tribesmen were reluctant to tell their closest friends and neighbors they had killed something. Conversely, social media hunters tell the whole world. The Ju/’hoansi had the right idea. The proper attitude for the hunter is one of understatement and humility. Hunting is about seeing without being seen. Hunting is best done quietly.


Jason

"You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core."
_______________________

Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt.

Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry
Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure.

-Jason Brown
 
Posts: 6842 | Location: Nome, Alaska(formerly SW Wyoming) | Registered: 22 December 2003Reply With Quote
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It is a good article that comes from the right place.

I spoke with Matt for a few hours this week. There is very likely more to come from this perspective.
 
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I have no idea about the social media parts.
but I do agree with a lot of the stuff he wrote.
 
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I think most would agree to a big percentage of the article.
 
Posts: 457 | Registered: 12 November 2013Reply With Quote
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I have to agree with a lot of the article. Social Media has definitely changed hunting.


Tom Kessel
Hiland Outfitters, LLC (BG-082)
Hiland, Wyoming
www.hilandoutfitters.com
 
Posts: 402 | Location: Central Wyoming | Registered: 14 March 2010Reply With Quote
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I would say this about hunter recruitment, one of my big issues: For years we have been absolutely bombarded with the premise that we are losing hunters in big numbers. Much of this campaign was(and is) fostered by the outdoor industry and the hunting conservation groups. Think DU, RMEF, etc. The facts pointed out by Matt here and others elsewhere says we have been fed a crock of shit. There are definitely MORE hunters, hunting longer. But here is the catch- As a percentage of the population, which has grown 30 some odd percent in the last 40 years, hunter influence has shrunk. So in so many ways I agree with Matt. Right before Christmas, brother Steve hosted Matt and Dan on his Meateater podcast. Cringe worthy but worth a listen. They really get into the debate, gloves off.
 
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“Influencers” only influence those who are incapable of thinking for themselves.


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quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
“Influencers” only influence those who are incapable of thinking for themselves.



The cumulative affect of constant propaganda does shift societal views.

I recommend reading the book, or the reviews of the book "The German Corpse Factory: A Study in First World War Propaganda " https://www.amazon.com/German-...ampton/dp/1911628275

The first half of the book is the development of WW1 propaganda, the various approaches, the successes, etc. Only by the second half does the author show after three years of constant propaganda, the allied population readily accepted fantastical atrocity propaganda that the Germans collected their war dead, and then rendered the corpses for fat and glycerin.

I have read contemporary accounts, written during the war, and the authors accepted that the Germans were crucifying allied soldiers. Such as shown in this propaganda poster.



Lots and lots of propaganda about Germans bayoneting babies.



These were believed as true, and to question these accounts would have gotten you removed from your job, beaten up, and I am sure worse.

American's have forgotten the year's worth of propaganda prior to the invasion of Iraq. This was a country that did not want to go to war with the US, did not have weapons of mass destruction, and the reasons for invading Iraq were contrived warmongering.

I got to tell you, having been there at the time, after a year of constant propaganda, the American public were eager to dip their fangs in Iraqi blood, and were attacking those who challenged the narrative. I had to keep my skepticism muted (the propaganda got more and more fantastical) and never openly opposed the path the Government taking. Based on the French experience in Algeria, I understood there was a huge difference in cultures, and any attempt to Americanize Iraqi, would result in a failure.

Incidentally, the American public is in total denial of this debacle. It has completely vanished from the memory. The propaganda has shifted to wars with other entities, and thus, the public is being educated why American needs to go to war again.

The majority of people are followers and thus, they are easily influenced to believe anything. I am aware of a number of ways propaganda has changed society, but such a list would be boring. I was recently reviled by a large group of haters on this forum when I openly questioned the metallurgical quality of old military rifle receivers. These individuals are cultists, and are the products of years of cumulative propaganda by commercial interests selling gunsmithing work, and custom products.

Propaganda works, which is why we are saturated in it.


This is an industry class about how to create a cult around your product. And, such as old Mauser military actions, it works.

Sheffield Doc/Fest - 2011 - How to be a Cult Leader

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xi4ZQMXGzac
 
Posts: 1233 | Registered: 10 October 2005Reply With Quote
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There is a lot to be criticized concerning hunting and the 'industry' created by it. The accessibility and fantastical costs to do guided and or draw tags has gotten to be insanely expensive anymore. I honestly do not see that changing. I do see it getting more prevalent and that will impact accessibility.

I'm not a fan of special youth seasons and large quotas either.

I can't change the world but I can change what works for me. I no longer hunt around the country or overseas. The amazing cost has taken away the experience for me so I just don't do it anymore. I own enough land to enjoy my sport and fill my freezer. No, I don't kill big trophies but I am always happy with what I do pull the trigger on.

People who routinely wound game are indeed a problem. I do have a bordering landowner who does this. I have posted about this here. Some of the criticism from others has been 'his land he can do what he wants', in a nutshell. Yes, and he does. If they don't DRT he never looks for them. I think that is insane but this is probably much more common among hunters than I know. Same with long range hunters. Wow. But it is a free country. Right?

Leasing of private land- yep, definitely raised the cost of hunting and limited access to a lot of people. Some for good reasons (trash and property damage) and some for not so good reasons- there are big profits.

Don't get me wrong. I love guided hunts. I have done many but the economics behind them have kept me home for many years now. I do post photos of my game, however, I do it to encourage others to understand hunting and putting up your own food. I am also a rancher/farmer and raise/put up probably 85% of my rations. I sell stock to those who want to do the same.

My situation is different than most people. Some won't own, let alone live on land beyond their subdivision. For some the cost of hunting is meaningless, they can afford it. For others, the size of the trophy does matter. I am not sure I can be critical about that since I have hunted in places like Africa. I can't keep the meat but it all got used. That was important to me.

One thing Mr. Rinella did not cover is the resurgence of large predators, especially in the west. They have impacted game numbers and the city people supporting large predators are going to make a bigger impact in the long run than we may realize.

Bottom line, there are many things that are not pretty about hunting. Will animals get wounded? Of course, it happens. People in their cars kill a lot of wildlife too. Habitat gets taken away for developing more homes.


~Ann





 
Posts: 19747 | Location: The LOST Nation | Registered: 27 March 2001Reply With Quote
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Posts: 389 | Registered: 24 June 2008Reply With Quote
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LIFE involves DEATH or it would never exists.

Yesterday I was watching WICKED TUNA.

They are blue fin tuna fisherman.

They use live bait.

Live fish are hooked to lines with hooks stuck into them.

They catch a tuna.

They stick it with a harpoon as it comes close to the boat.

They pull it out with a rope to the tail.

It lies in the boat dying slowly.

How do predators live?

By killing and eating others.

It might not look very pretty, but this is how it has been for millions of years.

Now we have the PETA idiots and their lawyers in New York truing to give animals human rights!


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Posts: 69667 | Location: Dubai, UAE | Registered: 08 January 1998Reply With Quote
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First, while I do not dispute the fact public land hunting sees more hunters than quality experience. The indisputable fact is hunter numbers and hunting dollars funding game departments and conservation is dwindling. There is some disingenuousness of those, mostly in staters like Matt Rinella, who complain of too many hunters. We cannot have too many hunters. Out of staters, bring in the money to Western game departments. Out of Staters pay a huge tax, markup to hunt that helps keep the price of hunting down for In Staters. Therefore, I reject the propositions that hunting being publicized is determinate because it 1) prices out hunting to In Staters, and 2) publicizing hunting dilutes public land hunting.

Second, I have no issue with State Game Departments sponsoring a person publicizing hunting. So long as, that person is not given special preference in draws that are regulated to be random. Should such relationships be disclosed up front by the person engaging in media. Yes, but is it on its face damning. The answer is no. If I wanted to know about hunting in Arizona, than seeking someone speak who has that relationship with Arizona Fish and Wildfire is who I want to go listen to and read. Again, the funding source for the North American Conservation Model is dying on the vine as old hunters are phasing out and new hunters are not there to buy licenses. I saw bravo to Arizona for engaging in new media to influence people to hunt and spend money hunting in Arizona. The this guy has a professional relationship with this State Fish and Wildlife. Therefore, this person is a problem is a red hearing and conclusion disguised as analyst.

Third, do we have a problem with hunting based entertainment. Yes, I have spoken about it numerously here. The problem is grounded in bad ethic, in articulation of hunting to the point of being disrespectful to the kill and a general audience. The best example I can give of this is Ted Nugget and Pig Man Brian whatever his last name is. Nugget and Pigman did the first televised helicopter cull of pigs on tv. In the promotional material for the cull on Sportman’s Channel. Nugget is filmed saying, “This is not fair chase.” In a whinny voice. He turns his head with a crooked camera shot, so the camera is demonstrating a visual clue of edginess and says FXXX You1” Pig Man looks into the camera open mouth and starts bobbing his head up and down in agreement.

What a wasted opportunity to explain that yes this is not a hunt, but a cull. That the rules of fair chase and what those rules are were being suspended to deal with a feral species that not only in the generalized abstract causes harm, but what specific harm to the properties the air gunning was covering, and how that air gunning was going to offset property damage cost to the landowners. Instead, we get sophomoric low hanging fruit for anti hunters to attack hunting. We get to foolish acting persons who non-hunters or those who may be thinking about hunting seeing unadulterated disrespect and male ego driven vulgarity. The result being those who see such behavior as a reason not to engage in hunting.

THe next best example are the young women in string bikinis hunting and fishing. I know a lot of us like to see beautiful women land as much of them as possible. However, this blatant sexualization for commercial gain with hunting and fishing as the vehicle is harmful to the image of hunting. Again, is just speaks to disrespect for what one is doing. As I tell my wife from time to time when she goes hunting, fishing, and shooting, “Wear sensible shoes.’

Fourth, I find the attack on those who go on guided hunts to be very petty. The “pay to go on ranches to hunt is not hunting.” Yes, Matt it is. Firs, the author does not identify rather he is talking about high fence, human breed and human feed operations where one is killing livestock in a pen, a high fence operation where game is looked after, but allowed the space and independence in food, breeding, and death. Can fair chase, hunting be conducted on high fence operation. The answer is yes. The fact State Fish and Wildlife departments and the hunting conservation “clubs” or organizations struggle to define the two extremes does not change that. The fact is species have been saved from extinction because of those species were ranched with the business model of we have land, bring them here, we will breed and expand them with an ability to pay for it and make a profit through selling opportunity to hunt them in Texas, Europe, and South Africa. I do not support, strongly condemn put and take hunting where a species is hand feed, breed in a lot, and placed in an area of whatever size just prior to the shooter’s arrival.

All game must be managed and managed professionally. Rather that game be an elk in some drainage dropping to 8,0000 feet above sea level from a 10,000 feet above sea level piece of public land in Wyoming, a deer herd (more like a deer family unit that is part of a state wide herd) that lives on a big agriculture rotating crop farm in the mid west, or a elk herd on a piece of private in Colorado. The ability of that cattle rancher to sell hunts or license the land to an outfitter who sells hunts keeps those elk there, just like hunting lions in the Selous Game Reserve kept all the other animals there. One is not more hunting than the other. The experience is just different. Matt Renila used to be a state employed game biologist. He still may be. He knows this.

However, to broad stroke all “Ranch Hunting that the hunter pays for the privilege of being there” is intellectual laziness.

Finally, why do I post. I post to share the hunting experience with those who enjoy it, those who may want to do that, and those who may read of it, and with hope say, “Now, that sounds like a fun time to me.” I do not know exactly how I became enamored with hunting. I was raised rural. We had livestock we sold commercially and killed for our own consumption. My father grew up poor. There was no big game hunting in Kentucky. He did Deer Hunt in Michigan. When he grew up squirrels, groundhogs, rabbits, were supplemental. I grew up that as a life style. However, I strongly wanted to hunt and hunt far and different things for the sake of hunting. I cannot say which one made that a desire of my soul, but the writings and films of Courtney Fredric Selous; President Roosevelt; Ernest Hemingway; names of Bell, Hunter, Finch Hutton that I would see in writings and film before I read their works; Stewart Granger; and Craig Boddington all caught me at an early age were the collectively the source of the wellspring.

My Conclusion is this. Our posting, our hunting, is not and cannot be our own. We must share hunting positively and with a ethic, so someone else will come along and say, “I want to do that.” Just like early humans left cave paintings to the hunt to remember and tell stories, no doubt lighting something that can only be felt but not described in humans, in the next generation of hunters gathered around the fire “hearing that voice inside them.” I cannot wait tell I get to do this.” Hunting, like food, as a human endeavor is not and never was about survival alone. Hunting is about a community. Hunters with social media are at a cross roads of how and what type of communion are we going to present. However, not presenting a communion is not an option. Such never was.

This author’s article just smacks of sour grapes being I used to hunt from hill and dale and never see a hunter or have access problems. “Game cannot live on every ridge there are hunters.” Again, a conclusionary statement showing bias disguised as analyst. He uses this to condemn social media hunters as non-conservationist. I can tell you, that Randy Newburg videos helped me immensely preform my two do it yourself elk hunts. I killed elk with every ridge having a hunter on it. Game cannot live with every ridge a hunter all year round, but the scientific balance of hunters to time of year and number of game taken can. In fact, that balance allows the funding to make it so. Do I have minor issues with Randy Newburg’s presentation. The answer is yes. As an Eastern Hunter coming West on a 24 hour drive, with no local help, no horsemanship, I cannot bring a pack of llamas to get into and out of an area. Do I set up camp where I am going to hunt instead of down at 7,000 feet and hiking up to 9,000 feet in the area I am going to hunt out, then drive to the next hole in a few days and do it again. You better believe it. Yet, the balance is more than Positive.

Now, with the rise of media, I cannot find any good places left to hunt. Now, all this Social Media types has made it to where I cannot find a place to hunt. No one hates Social Media, on the whole more than me. I do not do Facebook, Instagram, Tick Tock, Twitter, Buzzer, or whatever is going on now. I do not know how. I do not want to know how. I think giving a minor a phone with internet and a camera should be a felony.

In this day and age where people do not grow up in non hunting families, do not grow up in households that supplement food with killing a hog in the winter, we must have media that says, this is how to skin an elk, this is how to gut a deer. Reading how in a book is great. However, no book even with pictures is as useful as seeing it. I have used such videos and will again.

I am not enamored, convinced, nor pressured with the author’s discourse in this article. Frankly, I have little respect for the author’s positions and would tell him so politely to his face.

The cost of hunting does need to be addressed. The point systems need to go away. Out of Staters may need to be limited to one tag a life time for species such as bull elk, mule deer bucks. The management of public lands needs to be addressed at the Federal Level. The bad press created by wildfires has ended much needed controlled burning. However, social media and traditional media did not create the real problems we see with public land.

The bottom line is everyone agrees we need more hunters. The complaining disguised as analyst of things that create more hunters or help new hunters be successful is like nails on a chalk board to me. In fact, it makes me angry. The author is engaging in the selfishness he condemns other for only from a different point of view.
 
Posts: 12765 | Location: Somewhere above Tennessee and below Kentucky  | Registered: 31 July 2016Reply With Quote
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We deserve it.

We sit back and let them tell us what we should do, while they carry on in sick ways we cannot fathom.

We don't tell them to stop it.

We mind our own business.

They don't.


www.accuratereloading.com
Instagram : ganyana2000
 
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quote:
Originally posted by LHeym500:


The bottom line is everyone agrees we need more hunters. The complaining disguised as analyst of things that create more hunters or help new hunters be successful is like nails on a chalk board to me.


This caught my eye. First off, do you really believe that “everyone agrees” that we need more hunters?

That is the propaganda that we have been fed for years, but I have to wonder if it is true. Rinella points out that the “shrinking numbers of hunters” is likely very exaggerated. Hunter numbers seem be flat over the past 40 years, and some segments of hunting have most assuredly grown. At the same time, access has shrunk. So the real question is: do we need more new hunters?



I always respect your ideas, so I will apologize in advance for not reading your entire post. I look forward to reading it tomorrow, when I have time.


Jason

"You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core."
_______________________

Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt.

Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry
Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure.

-Jason Brown
 
Posts: 6842 | Location: Nome, Alaska(formerly SW Wyoming) | Registered: 22 December 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
“Influencers” only influence those who are incapable of thinking for themselves.



quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
We deserve it.

We sit back and let them tell us what we should do, while they carry on in sick ways we cannot fathom.

We don't tell them to stop it.

We mind our own business.

They don't.


Saeed, I’m confused, you seem to contradict yourself. First you seem to say that this is nothing to worry about, then you post that it’s our own fault because we don’t do anything about it.

So do you believe that hunters should be pressuring these influencers to clean up their act?


Jason

"You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core."
_______________________

Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt.

Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry
Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure.

-Jason Brown
 
Posts: 6842 | Location: Nome, Alaska(formerly SW Wyoming) | Registered: 22 December 2003Reply With Quote
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You know most hung shows are faked.

When there is more talking then shooting.
 
Posts: 19835 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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LHeym500-
I think you may be swallowing what the sporting goods manufacturers and conservation groups are selling. It is a false narrative. Rinella and others have quoted license sale numbers from the states. There are more hunters today and they are hunting longer. Those are facts. His podcast with brother Steve, linked above, is worth a listen. Anybody who has a modicum of experience recreating on public land over the last 30-40 years will heartily agree.
What is also a documented fact is that as a percentage of the overall population, the hunting community has lost ground. We have not grown 30% over the last 40 or so years as has the US population. So as a political interest, hunters have lost some ground.
Matt Rinella is adamantly against the 3 Rs- Recruitment, Retention and Reactivation that is being pushed by the Sporting goods industry and conservation groups. I am in his camp.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by JBrown:
quote:
Originally posted by LHeym500:


The bottom line is everyone agrees we need more hunters. The complaining disguised as analyst of things that create more hunters or help new hunters be successful is like nails on a chalk board to me.


This caught my eye. First off, do you really believe that “everyone agrees” that we need more hunters?

That is the propaganda that we have been fed for years, but I have to wonder if it is true. Rinella points out that the “shrinking numbers of hunters” is likely very exaggerated. Hunter numbers seem be flat over the past 40 years, and some segments of hunting have most assuredly grown. At the same time, access has shrunk. So the real question is: do we need more new hunters?



I always respect your ideas, so I will apologize in advance for not reading your entire post. I look forward to reading it tomorrow, when I have time.


I have seen the numbers of loss of Fish and Wildlife Revenue from not purchasing hunting and fishing lis. Hunting is contracting. Look how all hunting not just Africa is covered by media.

English hunters lost the depredation hunting of crows of all things. The hunting in UK has been driven underground as a culture. This is all because the populace as a whole no longer hunts.

The US has become dramatically less rural with large population centers inside each state controlling state legislatures. These cities breed anti and non hunters like cities breed Progressives.

Like any endeavor, hunting not expanding in practitioners means the activity will come to an end as a society that does not practice hunting deems it sonically unacceptable. Yes, we need more hunters. We need hunters from urban, young, educated class. The class MeatEater targets and engages in.

No one of popular culture is seen as a hunter. This is what has changed since the 50s. The lack of culturally important, yes role models, is why our culture has turned away from hunting.

Out of State hunters who pay high fees keep, by that much higher tax, the cost of hunting for In State Hunters down. At least, the In State Hunter’s license and tag fees down. The guy who pays for a guided hunt on private is less competition to the In State Do It Yourself hunter on public land.

Solutions;

1) One bull elk and one mule deer buck a life time from designated units for Out of Staters. This will make the hunters more selective and take off hunting pressure of Out of Staters the article is most concerned with;
2) Do away with the point system;
3) The Feds need a restructuring because our public lands are mismanaged by the alphabetical agency soup. The bad press of wild fires has limited the needed use of control burns;
4) Some will immediately target the need to reduce tags. This is a conversation we must have as game and predator (including human) become more contracted. However, the balance with access and opportunity must be part of that equation. If folks cannot get a tag and when they do hunt a wasteland, we will not have hunters, game, nor conservation. Therefore, I am not against the targeted specific to the area and game numbers based models that would reduce tags;
5) The State agencies have tried various tactics to increase public access on private land. The article by Matt ignores this completely.


I agree with you the essential assumption and what should have been the focus of the article is and should have been, “Do we need more hunters.” If the answer to that thesis is no. The next question is how do we grow the quality of hunting to take in more hunters. We need to address specific State agency policy and specific units in specific states to have that conversation.
 
Posts: 12765 | Location: Somewhere above Tennessee and below Kentucky  | Registered: 31 July 2016Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by crane:
LHeym500-
I think you may be swallowing what the sporting goods manufacturers and conservation groups are selling. It is a false narrative. Rinella and others have quoted license sale numbers from the states. There are more hunters today and they are hunting longer. Those are facts. His podcast with brother Steve, linked above, is worth a listen. Anybody who has a modicum of experience recreating on public land over the last 30-40 years will heartily agree.
What is also a documented fact is that as a percentage of the overall population, the hunting community has lost ground. We have not grown 30% over the last 40 or so years as has the US population. So as a political interest, hunters have lost some ground.
Matt Rinella is adamantly against the 3 Rs- Recruitment, Retention and Reactivation that is being pushed by the Sporting goods industry and conservation groups. I am in his camp.


Then quote them in the article. If he is against the 3R with a decline of hunters with the general population. He and I cannot agree.
 
Posts: 12765 | Location: Somewhere above Tennessee and below Kentucky  | Registered: 31 July 2016Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by LHeym500:
First, while I do not dispute the fact public land hunting sees more hunters than quality experience. The indisputable fact is hunter numbers and hunting dollars funding game departments and conservation is dwindling. There is some disingenuousness of those, mostly in staters like Matt Rinella, who complain of too many hunters. We cannot have too many hunters. Out of staters, bring in the money to Western game departments. Out of Staters pay a huge tax, markup to hunt that helps keep the price of hunting down for In Staters. Therefore, I reject the propositions that hunting being publicized is determinate because it 1) prices out hunting to In Staters, and 2) publicizing hunting dilutes public land hunting.


Wrong. In 2007 the Pittman Robertson fundd were under 400 million. IN 2020 they were almost one BILLION. It has never been higher - but just wait until the 2021 numbers are published. Don't forget those funds come from ALL firearms and ammo purchases - not just hunting weapons. North American model 'dying on the vine" how so?

https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/R45667.pdf


As far as out of state hunters, in Idaho, our of state tags used to not sell out until June after they went on sale in December. Now they practically sell out in a matter of hours. You need to hear some of the waiting list horror (or comedy) stories.


You also need to understand the nature of the social media hunter - there are people out there who literally fill their instagram pages with dead animals, tagging people and then generating followers. Once they reach a certain number, they approach some potential sponsor in the hopes of 'making a deal.' The issue is that the social media hunter must continue to kill in order to generate content - there is a veritable river of blood flowing through these instagram pages so the hunter can make money. To put it plainly: this is in-effect market hunting. When I talk to a friend here who happens to see one of these guys blowing out spots, then the following weeks bring truck after truck - that is a problem.

And consider this - we aren't just talking about big game. Start thinking upland game as well. Start thinking sage grouse. Start thinking that it's now 'cool' to kill sage grouse. In Idaho we have very short and limited seasons on sage grouse. What do you think will be the result when waves of hunters pass through, each taking only what they can, but hitting the same spots over and over? Same goes for quail and pheasant - chukart and huns. In the South we used to say to never shoot a covey more than once - especially late in the season. How many times do you suppose coveys are shot while the hunter is in pursuit of more content so that he can maintain or gain followers to keep the $$$ flowing?


quote:
Originally posted by LHeym500:
Now, with the rise of media, I cannot find any good places left to hunt. Now, all this Social Media types has made it to where I cannot find a place to hunt. No one hates Social Media, on the whole more than me. I do not do Facebook, Instagram, Tick Tock, Twitter, Buzzer, or whatever is going on now. I do not know how. I do not want to know how. I think giving a minor a phone with internet and a camera should be a felony.


Not exactly sure how you can make your argument while stating the above? If you don't do any social media, you don't know what is going on with Social Media.


quote:
Originally posted by LHeym500:
The cost of hunting does need to be addressed. The point systems need to go away. Out of Staters may need to be limited to one tag a life time for species such as bull elk, mule deer bucks. The management of public lands needs to be addressed at the Federal Level. The bad press created by wildfires has ended much needed controlled burning. However, social media and traditional media did not create the real problems we see with public land.


Why would we need to go to once-in-a-lifetime elk if, as you stated, hunter numbers are diminishing? How do you expect people are finding out about elk on public land? The "Keep it Public" public land hunting movement has drawn more and more people to hunt on public land - doing so as a tagline to their hunt. I have seen hundreds of posts where someone posts a deer and a follower asks "pubic land?" There has become a 'thing' about hunting on public land, and it's creating some of the issues we see.



Matt is not being selfish. As a matter of fact he has property and has put up 'Tresspassing OK" signs to allow people to cross his property if they need to. He's not some curmudgeon on the hill, shaking his fist at the kids walking across his lawn - he's brought up what will turn out to be a critical factor for hunting in the future. And don't think he takes this stuff glibly - he doesn't.
 
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Numbers are diminishing hunting is concentrating. I agree hunting opportunity is narrowing, but it is not because too many people are hunting. The reasons are multiple as I have tried to highlight in my responses.


A lot of this smacks to me as certain people (Out of Staters for sure) do not deserve to hunt our sacred game.

Let us assume the assumption is true. We have to many hunters. Who and how do we decide other than draws (which are supposed to be science based) do we decide who gets to hunt and what.

My position we have a concentration of opportunity and too few hunters to engage the body politic. What happens to public land game quality when hunters are all gone who were paying for that space are replaced with bikers who pay nothing. Hence, my suggested solutions.

Matt Renelia’s whole argument is no vacancy. What he does on his private land is his business. I do commend him for that. However, that does not change his stated public policy in this article.
 
Posts: 12765 | Location: Somewhere above Tennessee and below Kentucky  | Registered: 31 July 2016Reply With Quote
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From USFW: Total licenses, tags, permits and stamps

1970-22,183,857
2003-34,673,422
2021-38,590,862

These figures may be somewhat clouded with the evolving sophistication of the individual states in their offerings but the trend is very clear. We are being spoon fed a narrative that is false.
Does anyone think a business person with the acumen of Johnny Morris would put together the deals he has with a shrinking market? That is just preposterous.
 
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What are those numbers compared to population growth.
 
Posts: 12765 | Location: Somewhere above Tennessee and below Kentucky  | Registered: 31 July 2016Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by LHeym500:
Numbers are diminishing hunting is concentrating. I agree hunting opportunity is narrowing, but it is not because too many people are hunting. The reasons are multiple as I have tried to highlight in my responses.


A lot of this smacks to me as certain people (Out of Staters for sure) do not deserve to hunt our sacred game.

Let us assume the assumption is true. We have to many hunters. Who and how do we decide other than draws (which are supposed to be science based) do we decide who gets to hunt and what.

My position we have a concentration of opportunity and too few hunters to engage the body politic. What happens to public land game quality when hunters are all gone who were paying for that space are replaced with bikers who pay nothing. Hence, my suggested solutions.

Matt Renelia’s whole argument is no vacancy. What he does on his private land is his business. I do commend him for that. However, that does not change his stated public policy in this article.



Having too few hunters engaged does not require a greater number of hunters to solve. It requires a greater percentage of existing hunters to get involved.
 
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What is the medium she of hunters. I am 32z
. I am considered young.

How many African Americans are hunting?
Joe many college educated people hunt?

Those are all numbers in the negative folks.

Compared to the general population.
 
Posts: 12765 | Location: Somewhere above Tennessee and below Kentucky  | Registered: 31 July 2016Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by LHeym500:
What is the medium she of hunters. I am 32z
. I am considered young.

How many African Americans are hunting?
Joe many college educated people hunt?

Those are all numbers in the negative folks.

Compared to the general population.


So what?

Not sure how chasing demographics is the answer here.
 
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This is starting to sound like that famous country song-"Don't Piss On My Head And Tell Me It's Raining".
 
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quote:
Originally posted by BaxterB:
quote:
Originally posted by LHeym500:
What is the medium she of hunters. I am 32z
. I am considered young.

How many African Americans are hunting?
Joe many college educated people hunt?

Those are all numbers in the negative folks.

Compared to the general population.


So what?

Not sure how chasing demographics is the answer here.



Those are the people who make up the electorate. Just like your children pick your nursing home. Those people hold the gate of hunting. You will be dead, and I still will have to live here, and hopefully still hunting. We are breeding out. That is what demographics have to do with it.
 
Posts: 12765 | Location: Somewhere above Tennessee and below Kentucky  | Registered: 31 July 2016Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by crane:
From USFW: Total licenses, tags, permits and stamps

1970-22,183,857
2003-34,673,422
2021-38,590,862

These figures may be somewhat clouded with the evolving sophistication of the individual states in their offerings but the trend is very clear. We are being spoon fed a narrative that is false.
Does anyone think a business person with the acumen of Johnny Morris would put together the deals he has with a shrinking market? That is just preposterous.


Those figures do not represent the total of paid INDIVIDUAL licensed hunters. That total is around 15 million, which has hovered between that & 14 million for decades. In 1959, that number was 14,164.426. In 2021, it was 15,202,669. In 2004, it was 14,966,406, and in 1970 it was 15,658,318 .

Considering the total U.S. population, which grew from 203,211,926 in 1970 to 331,449,281 in 2020, hunter numbers have fallen significantly as a percentage of the population.


Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer"
 
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quote:
Considering the total U.S. population, which grew from 203,211,926 in 1970 to 331,449,281 in 2020, hunter numbers have fallen significantly as a percentage of the population.


Honestly, that is more than likely due to the urbanization of American society as well. Most people WANT a McDonald's drive through rather than want to hunt for some food.


~Ann





 
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quote:
Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
quote:
Considering the total U.S. population, which grew from 203,211,926 in 1970 to 331,449,281 in 2020, hunter numbers have fallen significantly as a percentage of the population.


Honestly, that is more than likely due to the urbanization of American society as well. Most people WANT a McDonald's drive through rather than want to hunt for some food.


This is correct, urbanization in 1950 was about 63%, in 2020 it was 83%. If you ass/u/me hunters are from more rural areas, in 1950 those 15 million hunters came from 37% of the population, and in 2020 those 15 million hunters came from 17% of the population. If that's even close it's actually impressive to be at 15 mil.
 
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I stated early in that urbanization is a major fault of hunter decline. All the more reason to engage with urban people to join hunting. That is the group MeatEater targets.

Young, college educated, female, and urban.

If we do not engage in those 3 Rs, Matt Renelia is against, we die out. There will be no one to demurrer when hunting ends. There will only be cheers.
 
Posts: 12765 | Location: Somewhere above Tennessee and below Kentucky  | Registered: 31 July 2016Reply With Quote
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Funny, I was just reading an article from Pew from 2019 that said:

"The Michigan agency sold 16% fewer hunting licenses last year than in 2013, forcing it to freeze hiring and cancel five conservation programs that were supposed to begin this year."


Then an article from the same place from 2020:


"Michigan saw a 67% hike in new hunting license buyers this year compared with 2019, a 15% increase in female hunters and moderate growth in many younger age brackets. The state also sold 46% more apprentice licenses, a discounted option that allows new hunters to give the sport a try under the supervision of a mentor.

“The groups that we've been wanting to get engaged with hunting for years and years are the groups we’re seeing now,” said Dustin Isenhoff, marketing specialist with the Michigan Department of Natural Resources. “We have over 100,000 new hunting customers this year. That's a big opportunity for us to work with those folks to keep them involved.”

While many states don’t yet have complete data for this year, early reports are encouraging. Nevada saw a 30% jump in hunting licenses and put 50% more people through its hunter safety class. Maine sold a record number of deer permits, amid a 9% rise in hunting—with young adult hunters and women making up its fastest-growing groups.

Washington graduated more than twice as many residents from its hunter safety program than it did last year, while hunting license sales were up 8% compared to the same period in 2019. Idaho sold 28% more hunting and fishing licenses to first-time buyers. Texas offers a “Super Combo” license that includes hunting and fishing, which sold at a 7% higher clip than the previous hunting season."

So..

Michigan +67%
Nevada +30%
Maine - record permits and +9%
Washington +8%
Idaho +28% for first-timers.

Seems hunting is having a resurgence, no?
 
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I wonder what affect Covid had on license purchases? One of the few activities one could do in 2020 was hunt or fish.

Maybe recruitment is working. If so, I say bravo.
 
Posts: 12765 | Location: Somewhere above Tennessee and below Kentucky  | Registered: 31 July 2016Reply With Quote
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It had a lot of effect.

A question remains…if 15 million are not enough hunters, what IS enough?

How is the “right” number of hunters derived?

“As many as possible” is not an answer. Every endeavor should have a goal.

What’s the goal of hunter recruitment? How will we know we’ve succeeded?
 
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If you are asking me my perfect percentage it would 50 percent of all who are registered to vote. That is just a gut feeling.

Again, I ask, if we can have too many hunters, who decides who gets to hunt.

Other than the draw, season, and bag limits which is supposed to answer that question based on science.
 
Posts: 12765 | Location: Somewhere above Tennessee and below Kentucky  | Registered: 31 July 2016Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by BaxterB:
Funny, I was just reading an article from Pew from 2019 that said:

"The Michigan agency sold 16% fewer hunting licenses last year than in 2013, forcing it to freeze hiring and cancel five conservation programs that were supposed to begin this year."


Then an article from the same place from 2020:


"Michigan saw a 67% hike in new hunting license buyers this year compared with 2019, a 15% increase in female hunters and moderate growth in many younger age brackets.


While many states don’t yet have complete data for this year, early reports are encouraging. Nevada saw a 30% jump in hunting licenses and put 50% more people through its hunter safety class. Maine sold a record number of deer permits, amid a 9% rise in hunting—with young adult hunters and women making up its fastest-growing groups.

Washington graduated more than twice as many residents from its hunter safety program than it did last year, while hunting license sales were up 8% compared to the same period in 2019. Idaho sold 28% more hunting and fishing licenses to first-time buyers. Texas offers a “Super Combo” license that includes hunting and fishing, which sold at a 7% higher clip than the previous hunting season."

So..

Michigan +67%
Nevada +30%
Maine - record permits and +9%
Washington +8%
Idaho +28% for first-timers.

Seems hunting is having a resurgence, no?


The devil is in the details. PEW is playing games. The only true number of hunters is the number of RESIDENT licenses sold per state. Granted, there might be some guys that buy only a NR license somewhere, but that number is likely miniscule. In contrast, there's probably a bunch that buy licenses in multiple states.

In regards to Mich., note "the NEW hunting license buyers." That means first time buyers increased by 67%, not the number of licenses sold. The actual numbers for MI TOTAL resident license sales were: for 2019-685,185 & for 2020-665,431 --a drop of almost 20,000.

In Nevada, resident license sales were 69,780 in 2019 and 69,681 in 2020.

In Maine, resident license sales were 162,065 in 2019 and 154,580 in 2020.

In Washington, resident license sales were 179,316 in 2019 and 174,660 in 2020.

In Idaho, resident license sales were 295,281 in 2019 and 288,613 in 2020.


All of these figures are readily available HERE if anyone wants to compare apples to apples.

As Ann mentioned, urbanization is a key cause. Also, family make-up has changed with many single parent homes. Plus, a larger part of the population no longer supports hunting.


Tony Mandile - Author "How To Hunt Coues Deer"
 
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This math provided by Outdoor Writer codifies what I believe and what the State Fish and Wildlife Agencies tell us. This is true analysis demonstrating the critical assumption to Matt Renelia’s thesis presented the posted article is wrong.

Yes, folks we need more hunters. Yes, folks if absorbing more hunters means more competition, shorter seasons, or less tags because of game concentration so be it.

The answers, in general terms, to that problem is support for private land hunting or access by the public to private land which State Fish and Wildlife has been trying to increase, better management of public lands at the State and Federal level.

The answer is not we have too many hunters, do not recruit more, sorry all field up.
 
Posts: 12765 | Location: Somewhere above Tennessee and below Kentucky  | Registered: 31 July 2016Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by LHeym500:
If you are asking me my perfect percentage it would 50 percent of all who are registered to vote. That is just a gut feeling.

Again, I ask, if we can have too many hunters, who decides who gets to hunt.

Other than the draw, season, and bag limits which is supposed to answer that question based on science.



You want 84 million hunters? There were 168m registered voters in 2020.


All that competition, short seasons, lower bag limits, etc, will not encourage more hunting.


Will upland licenses be cheaper because the a limit of quail is cut in half? Will quail even survive when 10x the hunters go afield. If we use that simple 10x multiplier, your bag limit will be 1 quail per day in Idaho all else being equal.

Hunting, nor the animals will survive 10x hunters. Everything will be like dall sheep, expensive and relegated to the wealthy. Welcome back to the age of the King’s deer.
 
Posts: 7832 | Registered: 31 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Yes, yes I do.

Honestly, I wish everyone hunted something.
 
Posts: 12765 | Location: Somewhere above Tennessee and below Kentucky  | Registered: 31 July 2016Reply With Quote
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