Gatogirl,
Only on this Big Game section is there so many phony counterfiets proclaiming to be such great hunters when in fact people like Jimmyd223 are nothing more than internet meadow muffins nerds that probably never pop a cap, so Gatogirl, just let them steam away and ignore their silly asses...

I will be booking hunts all the time they whine and cry, and wait there tables at McDonalds, I'm sure thats what they do for a living, while I go hunting behind fences, in Tanzania, Alaska and all over the world, so who cares what the say or think, they will never be a part of my life, they don't have the balls to get out and make it in the real world of hunting..

Ray ol' boy, now your startin to show your true colors when someone doubts your holier than thou word

I really liked this part: Only on this Big Game section is there so many phony counterfiets proclaiming to be such great hunters when in fact people like Jimmyd223 are nothing more than internet meadow muffins nerds that probably never pop a cap,

Pop a cap, come on there Ray, that's the best you can do, you learn that in Texas Ranger school

Read back over this post ol man, never anywhere did I claim to be the great white hunter that you accuse me of. I'm just a country boy that likes to hunt the old fashioned way,not in a fenced pasture.

You Ray are such an "Arrogant Bastard" that you think the sun rises and sets on your holy word.

And from a PM I got this morning from a James Dean, it is quite funny. He says he talked to Bob at Comstock and was told he could take a 400 class bull for 4500.00 if booked and paid for before the end of April.

This is interesting : Rays Bargin price 9500-35%= 6175.00

Comstock Price $4500.00

Profit for being a PIMP on a elk shoot= $1967.50


Give it your best shot Ray as you are failing to convince anyone that this is a real elk hunt.

Can Moosie PLAY ?!?!?

I just wanted to make 2 points. The first one is from this Quote :

"This is just way to simple. If you don't like it don't go."

What's your take on a CRACK house ? I don't go to Crack houses but I also do what I can to shut them down because It's my Personal Feeling that they just aren't right. I'm sure Jimmy and Crew feel the same way. Sometimes things are happening like the Game ranches that some don't like and they don't jsut "NOT GO" but voice their opinion and do what they can to rid the world of them.

2nd point is I personally have nothing against a Fenced hunt. (Me Personally) If someone wants to hunt in the Wild or a 4'x4' pen for an Elk so be it. Unlike My friend Jimmy (And I say Friend because I like him, it isn't a smart alec remark), I'm not passionate about this subject enought to waste my time Preatching to people about it.

Now Whore houses.. If you try takeing those Away I'll sure as Heck put up a Good Arguement *HEHE*

Anyways, continue on with your debate. If anyone knows me (And everyone does) they know I like a Good debate.

Fall turkey same price as a bison ($2750), but a lot less meat...Jeez

Ray, just a shot of the Selway-Bitteroot so you can compare to the Comstock, since you stated there is "little" difference I also hunt the Bitteroot-Selway every year and I see little difference

Ray, if your eyesight is that bad that you can't tell the difference, did someone lead you by the hand to your hunting area





Oh!!!! and here is one of the Comstock





Oh!!!! and another of the Comstock





Have you given any thought to getting your eyes checked

Jimmy, my, you get a head of steam worked up over this!

I must disagree with you, however. You cannot SEE the difference between Nebraska and the Bitterroots.

There are two differences relevant to the discussion. First, Comstock air has oxygen in it. Second, you can go to the Comstock on Saturday, BS with the guys, go out Sunday morning, shoot your elk, and not miss the Cowboy's game on the lodge big-screen.

Sometimes I wonder, are we hunters, or competitors?

Oh, and if you want, for about $200, you can buy a license and turkey tag and hunt the open Spring Turkey season in Idaho. If you are into that "naturalist" hunting type of thing, that is. You might miss the game, though. JMO, Dutch.

Now its clear, you and Moosie and Green horn the 3 biggest trols on the internet and the 3 biggest lieing S.O.Bs on the face of this earth..Still smarten over that spanken I gave that lying bastard Greenhorn a year or so ago...The three musketeers, butt buddies for sure...I should have seen through this a lot sooner...Kiss off asshole I'm through talking to you now. your on my delete....

oooops and in this corner the real
Ray Atkinson:: I admire the restraint you have shown on this thread. It shows your gentleman-like nature. Some folks were obviously not brought up with any social skills whatsoever - internet or not.

and this part Ray:: your on my delete.... just to help you out its call the "ignore"

Did the pictures of the Selway-Bitteroot help your memory out, maybe it was just wishful thinking that you were there. Sort of like all the other GREAT WHITE HUNTER BULLSHIT you spred.

Maybe you could start Bookin "squill" hunts with MORTIE Fair Chase of course

MY take on a crack house is that IT is illegal in most areas, and hunting on the described property is NOT. But you do bring up a valid point, if you don't like what is being described, get ahold of the state legislators and make a legal change. Till then, Good Shooting!

I'm not against game ranch hunting, per se, but I don't understand people who believe they are actually off on a '3 day hunt'. My husband has done these in half-day trips, to fill a freezer with meat. These are 'shoots' or 'harvests' -- there is no hunting.

Here's the definition of 'hunt':

Main Entry: 1hunt
Pronunciation: 'h&nt
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English huntian; akin to Old English hentan to seize
transitive senses
1 a : to pursue for food or in sport <hunt buffalo> b : to manage in the search for game <hunts a pack of dogs>
2 a : to pursue with intent to capture <hunted the escapees> b : to search out : SEEK
3 : to drive or chase especially by harrying <members ... were hunted from their homes -- J. T. Adams>
4 : to traverse in search of prey <hunts the woods>
intransitive senses
1 : to take part in a hunt
2 : to attempt to find something
3 : to oscillate alternately to each side (as of a neutral point) or to run alternately faster and slower -- used especially of a device or machine

When you go to a game farm -- there isn't a 'search'. . . you just get out your gun and shoot the critter. You also KNOW you're going to leave with meat.

I think there is a world of difference between a true wilderness hunt for anything and a game farm hunt. There are also wide variations in what a game farm "hunt" could be, from a shoot them as they come out the barn door "hunt" to chase them around for a couple of days type "hunt", and I'm sure I haven't even began to scratch the surface there. And should you pretend you went on safari when you shot one coming out the barn, no, not me at least. Would I enjoy the meat, yeah, I think I could. Challenges come in many forms, as I find of late. What challenges me today was not even on the horizon 30 years ago.

Now Jimmy you went and done it. The only time I get on a ignore list is by a woman.

Post deleted by jimmyd223

Hey there "Great White Bawannabe Hunter Ray" I love this quote by you: I know I eat as much game meat as anyone you know as I probably hunt a lot more than about anyone you know..



Now you registered on 6/4/00 lets say for the benifit of you that is 4 years ago. You have made 12,647 posts



Now that means 3,161.75 posts per year or better yet 8.66 posts for each and every day of the year including holidays



So I'm thinking either you have a big Red "S" on your chest or that all these various deer,mule deer, elk, bison and bear hunts oh and let us not forget S. Africa are "imaginery" as there are not enough hours in the day to do everything you are professing to do. This is not taking into account running your Booking Business and the half assed gun building you claim to do



wanna keep playin, cause I got alot more to say :grin

:

Jimmy223, I think Ray's creds are fairly well established by many folks. I was not offended by his hunt offering. You can take it or leave it, simple as that. There was a time when I hiked the Big Horn Mountains, southern Alaska, British Columbia, and the Black Hills of Wyoming and shot public land elk, deer, and bear on the cheap. But things change and I don't have the time to hunt for nothing now. That does not make me less of a hunter nor would I apolgize for it. To hunt with my sons now because of our professions and scheduling problems, I will hunt with them behind high wire. It's better than no hunting at all.

I bet you will change your stance on this in years to come.

(Preface: I don't know squat about Comstock, so these comments are not directed at their operation.)



I'm in agreement with those who say if you don't like the shoot then don't go - - but at the same time, I feel it's my right as a freedom-loving American sportsman to mouth-off about shooting tame animals and calling it hunting.



Generally, I like fine bolt action rifles or singleshots but when I head out to gutshoot Ceasar or Bubba I'm definitely taking the ultimate pimp gun.







Now this is a rifle worthy of pen-shooting some tame elk. Top it off with a 20X Tasco and start putting lead in the air. Man, I want to take out the whole herd!!! How about a volume discount??

Jimmy, I'll aim this comment at you, since you seem to be the leader of the band. You talk of taking 4 days to pack out an elk, plus more for your camp. I've been there, done that several times. Now I have a little problem, no, make that a big problem, I'm on the far side of 60. There's no way I'm going to pack out an elk out of the mountains. So what am I to do? I could hunt within a mile or two of the road, but the only thing I would see is a bunch of guys with guns, scarey. Therefore, my best hunting option is guided, wrangled hunts at considerable expence. On a cost basis the hunts at Comstock are quite reasonable. I will probably book a hunt there someday. Yeah, I know it isn't the same as being 21 and taking then out of the high country on your back. Come to think of it I'd like to have a 21 year old hard on to, but thats a different subject. Since I'm a widower, the meat has to go to charity. I could care less about horns. What this means is, I have to analyze the hunt package and judge accordingly. I'm not going to shoot a caged animal. I still hunt public land. I go back further than most hunters go. I pass most shots because of the difficulty in getting them out. My experience? Over 200 big game animals, most killed within feet not yards.

Dave

nopride, why hunt elk if you can't use the meat? Another question, why can't you use the meat? I'm a single guy and if I kill an elk I will definitely put all the meat in my freezer and eat it, all by myself. Why do you think a wife is necessary for you to eat elk meat? And you couldn't care less about the horns? (I fixed that for you BTW, you said "you could care less") Well then...what in the world would you want to pay that kind of money to go on a guaranteed elk shoot when you don't care about the meat or the antlers? Sorry but I just don't get it. If you're going to spend that kind of money, why not go on a REAL elk hunt, where maybe your chances of killing a bull isn't 100%, but think of the country you will get to see, and the stories you will have to tell from that experience. What kind of stories do you think you're going to have from a "hunt" at Comstock? I just don't understand what you would be paying for at Comstock. A Comstock "hunt" truly is nothing more than purchasing meat (and antlers.) Well you don't want either, so you're just throwing your money away. There are many, many outfitters out there who offer real elk hunting for less money. I would spend my money with the guys who do it the right way.

I speak only for myself here, but to clarify my gripe: I have no problem with canned/fenced/preserve hunts in general. If an individual chooses to pay to shoot a farm raised critter, hey, no biggee, that's their prerogative. The problem I have is with the half-truths and misrepresenting of such an endeavor as a real hunt. Ray wiggled and dodged and double-spoke on the details of the 'hunt' he's trying to sell, and when called on it for what is truly is, like a true salesman, chose rather than to come clean to berate those that took issue with his version of the 'hunt' description, and turned this thing into a pissing match/name calling extravaganza.

It's common knowledge that Ray is a man with lots of connections, experience and clout in the hunting world, and while his arrogant, condescending and childish outbursts are tired, the real problem I have is with his insolence. Early on in the thread, after being clowned, said something like "I was only trying to offer someone a good deal", like he was doing this sales pitch for the common good of mankind. It's not a favor or an act of charity if you do it to make money, pal. The worst part about it is that he seems to believe that we here are so gullible as to actually buy his lies. As usual, after being made, he took his marbles and went a-running. What a fucking farce.

Leighton




c

Ray,

Quote:

---

Still smarten over that spanken I gave that lying bastard Greenhorn a year or so ago...

---

That has to be the stupidest BS statement you have ever made on these forums and you have had some doozies. I think someone needs to post a link to that old thread to show WHO was shown to be a lying SOB. He is a lot closer to your Keyboard, in fact right in front of it.

Am absolutely amazed that you Never seem got get tired of being wrong.

500Grains, so you're telling me you would pay thousands of dollars for a guaranteed elk "hunt?" Why would you want to do that? All you are doing is purchasing meat that you don't want anyway. To me, elk hunting is a lot of work. If I didn't like elk meat, I would spend my time hunting grouse, pheasants, ducks, geese, chukar, and possibly varmints. Most likely I'd still hunt deer as it still has a higher percentage of "fun" without all the work associated with elk hunting, and only 50 to 100 pounds of meat to worry about. But that's just me. If you actually ENJOY work, then go ahead and spend all your time elk hunting. And if you can't find anybody to give all that meat to, I'll gladly take it off your hands.

Found these on another forum- QUOTE
I read all the time of " THE GREAT HUNT "
most of the posters forget to post they killed this creature in a preserve setting-be it a large black looking "wild" hog -ie from local stockyard-
or about a large black cat-that has been DEFANGED/DECLAWED and the great chase with dogs!!

baiting is low form of hunting- just review the hunting shows - ie write the hunters in them and ask if they hunt ever hunted over baited areas?

I watched a black bear hunt- the hunter is in his tree box sound ASLEEP, the bear comes into the clearing and rattles the barrel chained to the tree- the hunter almost jumps out of his skin and fumbles with his rifle to shoot the bear-bet ya he forget to mention that when he was braggin about the hunt!!

Somone stuck his head out to be chopped off and so touched a topic very close to my heart. So I'll also stick my head out. Maybe someone can gain a better perspective from my ranting, well then I'm happy to have my head chopped. So here goes:
The term "preserve hunting" seems to be very much like most of the hunting done in South Africa today. The same degree of abuse of the system may be present on both sides of the pond?
In South Africa most, by far the most, hunting is done on privately owned land. In most cases the land is fenced in such a manner that game can not readily escape from the enclosed area. Now when can hunting of such game be considered ethical? (To try to explain the concept of ethical hunting "behind-the-fence" I will have to make some statementse greatly simplified. In separate arguments I will defend my statements fully, but here the simplistic version.)
Many species of game animals, or at least the trophy males, are strongly territorial. That means they stay all their adult life in a relatively small area marked by a system of scents, sound and whatever the particular species uses. A male outside his own territory is "always" attacked in some or other way by the holder of the territory to drive him off. If a hunter approaches, and the territorial animal becomes aware of the hunter first, he will flee to some other place within his own territory. Should the hunter track him there, he will probably still be very alert and hear or see the approaching huter long before the hunter can see his intended quarry. The territorial male will then again flee to yet another place within his own territory. Only under extreme pressure will the persued animal flee into the next-door territory. If he does so, he will very soon try to get of the neighbouring territory and back to his own well known area. The persued animal is never ever going to flee "into the next county", but will always remain near his own territory. Now if the enclosing fenced area is many times larger than the territory of the hunted animal I say the hunt is ethical. So an impala may be very ethically hunted on an enclosed area of only a few hundered acres, as the impala will only use his own, say 75 acrea territory to try to evade a hunter. If this impala is in an enclosed area of 750 acres, ore 7500 acres or 75000 acres or on the whole of the unfenced Botswana, the hunt is going to be exactly the same in every instance. If however this impala has been release together with a few others a week before the hunt stats in a tiny 15 acres enclosure, no hunting can ever be ethical. I call such a hunt "a canned hunt". This is one of the evils that some (a small minority) of the hunting outfitters in South Africa do to guarantee that their clients gets the best trophies. I can provide a few names of American hunters who I've warned about this on their way to a South African safari, and they were actually offered a trophy nyala held in a 60 acres little "slaughtering camp". Credit due to this particular American sportsman as he flatly refused to shoot such a "caged" animal!

Another very difficult to crack down on unethical hunting method that is much more widely applied than the evil just described is what I call "put-and-take" hunting. Here the hunting outfitter buys a truckload of trophy male animals and delivers them to a large fenced area a few days before his first American hunting clients arrive. When the clients gets in the area, there is much chasing around of new males by the existing territory holders. While in this state of turmoil and with all the "fighting" going on it is very easy to get one of these newcommers, often right next to the enclosing fence! I'm very sorry to say so, but the trophies of many (but not all) American hunters that have been taken near the fence in South Africa were probably put-and=take trophies. In my book unethical. Unfortunately a very difficult practice to detect, and virtually no foreign hunter will be ably to judge by the amount of spoor in such an enclosure if the males are acting naturally or if there are a number of newly introduced males.

In summary: There CAN be some very ethical hunting within a fenced area, but fenced areas are often abused by (some, often the "bigger boys" who have prime stalls at the SCI and other hunting shows, their good status determined by the very good record book trophies that their clients regularly hunt) South African hunting outfitters who offer their clients what I consider an unethical hunt.

Ray ol' boy, what happened tooo much heat for ya or just the fact that tooo much truth is starting to appear on this thread. Lets try this to get things back on track Since you are without a doubt A Money Hungrey Pimp that is willing to sell off Farm Raised Elk I want to know how much to come to your Ranch and Fair Chase your pet DOG-Rosco





and will this have to be guided just let me know all the costs.



Now there Ray ol' boy, do you really want to bring that Spankin subject up again because I have already proved you to be a lieing POS that will say anything to promote a hunt to Line your pockets with CASH now do I have to do it again concering the whole Greenhorn thingy.



I would suggest that you have momma bring ya a warm glass of milk and a blanky and sit in your rockin chair before you get spanked some MORE



It is sort of funny all the PM's I have gotten of threats by Ol' Ray to "Kick someones Ass"

Tell the truth Ray, Are you really "HULK HOGAN" in Drag

Ray you are probably still reading along. It is nice to see that you finally got smart and do not bother to reply to the types of trolls that are more interested in seeing their screen name in print than the value of the text they type.
Ray,when you see a decent deal on NA game hunts either fenced or not please continue to post them. Those of us that are mature enough to keep things civil, appreciate that you are providing a service and still in it to make a living. thank you

WOW! haven't been back here since yesterday, some of you guys have WAY to much time on your hands, and need to get life. Get out and hunt more

DGK

Jimmy, that's a great picture of the Selways. Very pretty.

I think the big difference between these zillion acre fenced hunts and the "real" thing is that when I head out, I don't know exaclty WHICH zillion acres they are on right now. Last year it took me 3 days to find the herd I was watching all summer. Do that in a backyard, even a big one.

Still smarten over that spanken I gave that lying bastard Greenhorn a year or so ago...

Spanking Greenhorn. Ray please keep your sick sexual fantasies to yourself. I think I'm going to go throw up.

How many of those big bulls at Comstock die of old age or get killed by cougars?

I'm not bothered nearly so much by high-fence hunting as I am by hunters who pat themselves on the back for killing semi-tame animals or by the hyperbole of guides and booking agents who describe a 2500 acre fenced pasture as 100,000 or 200,000 acres of rugged country offering a sporting hunt.

Let's at least be honest with ourselves.

Posted by Ray on another thread. "Greenhorn,

Since you were pissing in the wind, why don;t you tell the folks where and how you shot that bull on Ted Turner ranch or rather his zoo....Not much challange to that..

you can fool some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time...



I've been on that ranch, but never hunted it...never wanted to."



and more, "Nope, you know I'm not mistaken, but to clarify, I know the elk was taken legally but I consider Turner elk to be canned hunts.end of story. "





Lest I appear to be piling on here is another quoate from Ray with which I agree 100%. "I think there is a place for such hunts as these..A lot of business men do not have time to take off a couple of weeks nor have the phyical ability to do a back country hunt, nor the knowledge of where to go..They don't live in the area and are not familiar with it..Many older folks can get along better on these hunts and we also plan to do a some youth hunts.."



More, "I apoligised to the man for what happened a year ago. That is all I can do and obviously that wasn't enough..To start with I didn't realize he was bow hunting, he got mad and I fired him up a little over his response, what else can I say, obviously he doesn't want to accept the apology so be it...." Doesn't sound like much of a spanking to me.

My position is pretty neutral here (I really could care less where you hunt), but I have to think that alot of people couldn't actually comprehend the actual size of 200,000 acres. As has been posted here already, it is going to depend on the animal you're hunting whether it could be considered fair chase or not. A mature whitetail buck would rarely venture outside of 200 acres and their hardly a sure thing. Even when you know where they are.

I personally wouldn't hunt elk in an enclosure of any kind but would hardly throw rock at those that do.

Chuck

For the record Greenhorn has never shot a bull on Ted Turner's ranch. Sure would like to know where that information came from. I wish Greenhorn were rich enough to afford hunting Turner's ranch, then I'd make him always pay for all the gas and food when we hunt together. Eventhough he's never killed a bull on Turner's ranch it is worth noting that Turner's ranches are not high fenced abominations and the elk are free to roam where ever they please. Greenhorn doesn't need me or anyone else to defend him, but when I see some one making 100% false statements about a person I personally know I won't sit quiet. Ray seriously how do you sleep at night?

BigSky, This is just another of Ray's lieing Bullshit plain and simple. It's gone on for years, just not many people want to call him on it.

Just as this post started out as a Fair Chase Trophy Elk Hunt, Then it is compared to the Selway-Bitteroot, when Rays backed in a corner about the Real truth, then the verbal attacks start and the real questions are left unanswered.

The PM I got concerning this hunt also stated that you would be driven to the hunting area in a 4X4 and should put you within 200 yards of your "Trophy Elk" Just a tad bit different that how Ray described the hunt as walk in ONLY.

Just goes to show that "Ray the PIMP" will say whatever to make a BUCK

Jimmyd223. Yes I know he is full of crap. I just wish he would quit proving it over and over, and over, and over, and over...

Before I knew better Ray once posted some tripe about a great mule deer hunt in Texas for 30" mulies. I actually called him on the phone to ask some specifics and see about booking a hunt. I guarantee you what he posted and what he told me over the phone were two different things. When I asked specific questions about the width or score of the bucks on this hunt he could not give me any specific answers. I guarantee in this day and age if you are even slightly serious about mule deer and you kill a buck that looks like he's thirty inches wide you will put a tape measure on it. Not in Ray's camp though, he somehow found the 5 to 7 mule deer hunters left on the planet that didn't measure the width of their bucks. None of them were measured for any kind of score either. How's this for a sales pitch? Come hunt Texas trophy mule deer for $3000.00 to $5000.00. Don't ask us how wide they are or what the average score is, we don't know. However we will be happy to take your money and let you measure your own buck when and "IF" you get one. Needless to say I passed on the "great opportunity".

HOLLLLEEYYYY CRAP !!!!



Jimmy makes 5 pages of Posts and I swoop in with ONE and Send Ankleson to the Heart attack hospital...



Sorry the blood got going. I wasn't aware you cared about me so much

I remember that post and I took a lot of crap from about everybody on this board for calling it like I saw it. I live down here and have made a living hunting big mule deer but nobody would take my word for it even though I drive through that area twice a week. LMAO

As for high fences, I could care less as long as it is legal.

Drum

huntsonora, if you will recall at least one guy didn't jump your case.

I know it, it was actually about 70/30, 70% being guys calling me an idiot. Oh well, no worries.Thanks for not jumping up my butt and tap dancing. LOL

Drummond

Ray ol' feller, just a quick question, when you made this post were you calling me an asshole along with moosie and greenhorn....... Now its clear, you and Moosie and Green horn the 3 biggest trols on the internet and the 3 biggest lieing S.O.Bs on the face of this earth..Still smarten over that spanken I gave that lying bastard Greenhorn a year or so ago...The three musketeers, butt buddies for sure...I should have seen through this a lot sooner...Kiss off asshole I'm through talking to you now. your on my delete....