Yup, It is damn sure a sad day here on this site! I just went through and looked at what seems to be important here and this is what I came up with:

28 replies to "can you have a fair chase hunt behind a high fence"

48 replies for "are you an NRA member"

50 replies for the rediculous thread "Who is man enough to say you have hunted behind a high fence"

18 freaking replies for "choosing a wall tent"

And only 11 repiles to pay tribute to a fallen hero that walked away from millions of dollars to die for our freedom.

Rediculous, Sad, Embarrassing, Disgusting, Disrespectful, there are a number of words to describe this and all of them make me sick.

Drummond

Drummond



I suppose a few points could be raised to explain the lack of interest.



Firstly, is there is any reason he should get such publicity as compared to others who have died? Secondly, to walk away from the dollars is something that he chose to do so he must have wanted to do it. Thirdly, what about the various deaths of some Iraqis that will have been totally innocent by standers. Fourthly, what about the unheard of soldiers who had to go to Iraq but it was at a time in their life when the timing could not have been worse for them and their families, especially those who have been killed or those who have been totally and permanently disabled.



Lastly, imagine how you would feel if you were the wife and children of the unheard of soldier who was killed or totally and permanently disabled while the news was full of the tragedy of the footballer who was killed.



Just some other view points.



Mike

I dont disagree that the man was a hero, but not any more so than any other who has sacrificed their lives. As far as that goes, every man and woman who serves is a hero in my book.

Drummond,

What he did was a rare thing indeed, especially today. Reminds me of a certian, young, up and coming singer who put his career on the back burner to serve with his countrymen in WW2. But with that being said, Mike 375 is right. Pat Tillman didnt sacrifice anything that any other soldier who died in Iraq or Viet nam, or any other war did. Pat understood that, why cant you?

And the last time I checked this forum was entitled "Big game hunting", so get the wad out of your panties and look for the political forum.

The fact is that I don't keep up with football much anymore. I had no idea who Mr. Tillman was.

I mourn his loss and pray for his family. I respect what he did very much.

But, the fact remains, his life is no more valuable than the other fallen men and women who have given their all for us. How do we elevate one over the others? We cannot.

May God grant comfort to all the bereaved.

The important thing that PAT will be remembered by is he attempted to give some credibility to pro sports, seems these guys all belong to th "ME ME " culture, a bunch of imature over paid spoiled idiots who think they achieved some cultural standard. It is a poor bunch of colleges these so called sports great associate with...rapists, murderers drug addicts wife and kid abusers and the list goes on and on, it is a honor to see s fellow place something over how many endorsements I'll get, I feel sorry for his family for Pat did make a selfish choice, a choice that only a handful of people in his category have made and it was not for fame or fortune it was for honor and service.

Yes there are alot of other men and women from all over the world that have lost theirs lives so that other people can live theirs but how many have by free will did what PAT did and for that he should be held in the greatest of honor, he could have easily said, man I am on easy street I 'll help in another way. It make me proud to see what our country can produce and it saddens me to see the lost of life that occurs each day. If you have not saw the site that has all the US Caskets, take a look at it



http://www.thememoryhole.org/



and think about those brave individuals who made the ultimate sacrifice.

For some reason this irks me, really badly.

Because you post an item on the wrong section of the forum, and it doesn't get the responses that YOU would like you get upset and try to reprimand everybody. What the hell?!

This is the hunting forum, people are asking questions regarding hunting, for the most part. What is wrong with "freakin'" responses to a question about wall tents? I loved the information and bookmarked the sites. if you want to spark outpoorings of nice things said for a fallen soldier post on the political section, that is where the action is for non-hunting items.

I am not saying anything negative about soldiers who die in the line of duty, at the same time I cannot feel extreme emotion for people I don't know, and since it is the first I have heard about this person (not a big sports fan) what would "you have" me say? If something happens to the kid I have known for 11 years who's a Ranger and shipping off to Iraq then it will be a different story. I know what he gave up to join, can tell stories I have about him FIRST HAND and could express genuine emotion. But barring that (and I pray God keep him safe) I am in agreement with the others, how do you single one person out for attention, how do you put their sacrifice above that of others? He gave up millions, some people gave up their families. He has the option of coming back and trying to get back into the sport, and probably would have a good chance of it. Some of the people that went over there will have to find new jobs when they return.

And have you stopped to think that some people just don't have anything to say about tragedy?! When somebody says,"my father just died." some people say,"I'm sorry." and some people are just quiet. If you choose to deal with the death of a person by making a public statement of the good they have done and sacrifice they have made then do so. Don't soil it then by trying to slam other people for not handling things the same way you do.

Red

No he did not sacrifice any more than any of the others that have died in combat but what he has done has "put a face" with the men and women that have died that we did not know. He has opened Americas eyes to all that have paid the ultimate sacrifice. All to often we cannot comprehend the loss unless you are personally involved and with the majority of America knowing the "Pat Tillman Story" it has opened a lot of eyes and made the sacrifice of all our servicemen and women that have died hit much closer to home.
I have not stated that what he died for was more patriotic because of who he was but in his death more people have felt a part of the pain that families of fallen soldiers feel everyday. For that I am incredibly grateful to Pat Tillman.

Drummond

"And the last time I checked this forum was entitled "Big game hunting", so get the wad out of your panties and look for the political forum."

This story and the hundreds like it should not be relegated to a political forum! These men and women have fought and died for our rights as Americans. Some of these rights include the right to come on websites such as this and express our opinions as well as the right to bear arms. Last time I looked this website was Accuratereloading.com and if you did not have the two rights listed above you would not even be here. To try and push this story aside or to try and policitize it makes me want to puke.

Drummond

One of the things which I have learnt over the years on these sites is that a lack of response (or what would seem to be an over response for some topics)is not a reflection of the views of the members. More often than not how a thread runs is all to do with "timing"

For example, there is a thread on the African forum Weatherby Question and the poster is asking opinions about buying a Weatherby rifle in 375 H&H. The thread is dead. However, a topic on the African forum that combined Push Feed, Weatherby and 375 H&H would normally light up the Africa forum

Mike

Drummond,

Few come here to mourn the dead and I certainly feel no patriotic obligation to reply the that thread.

Actually I find it somewhat peculiar that this particular soldier 'rates higher' than others that have fallen serving our country.

Drummond, Perhaps your world is only as big as the "Big Game" hunting thread on Accurate Reloading, but for many if us it is even bigger. So much so that I think many here would rather talk big game when they come to visit, and not the mourning of Pat Tillman. There is a time and a place for everything and perhaps some people just come here to escape talking about worldly events.

What was the point of your thread anyways? To tell us that we are all sick and you are not? Or that people "make you" sick from not acting to your liking? Why not take responsibility for your own feelings and say that you "get sick"? You should write a book on heros, and include mostly yourself Mr. holy roller.

huntsonora: Rediculous is spelled with an "I" !
Pat Tillman is a patriot sure enough but no more or no less than anyother soldier that serves their country. I honor them all. I served in WWII and Korea unfortunately I still carry the scars. we all knew going in that we could possibly be called on to give the ultimate and those of us men and women that stay did it with pride.
God bless all our troops and when the job is done I hope to share a hunting stand with any of them .BB

"There is a time and a place for everything and perhaps some people just come here to escape talking about worldly events. "

Fair enough but I dont think it is too much to ask to pay tribute to our soldiers. I think that recent posts about why high fences suck and who is man enough to claim to have hunted behind one have been beat to death and I find it disturbing to see some come on to continually trash others and not have time to remember those who have lost their lives fighting for our freedoms. Like it or not its my opinion.

" What was the point of your thread anyways? To tell us that we are all sick and you are not? Or that people "make you" sick from not acting to your liking? Why not take responsibility for your own feelings and say that you "get sick"? You should write a book on heros, and include mostly yourself Mr. holy roller."

Your dead wrong. I am disgusted at myself for not writing a post such as this sooner and that it took a man like Pat Tillman to die for me to realize that people like him are dying everyday to protect my rights as an American and the pain that these soldiers families are feeling. I was disgusted at myself for being somewhat numb to the fact that while I am here worrying about which suit I am going to wear tomorrow or why I dont have enough time to get out and look for a few sheds these soldiers are laying their lives on the line to prevent attacks on our homeland.

Its obvious to me that birds of a feather flock together, I have seen these types of behaviors since I first started posting here. I have seen people trash other people that they have never met. To be honest I have known for some time that the mindset of most people that frequent this forum are different than mine. To each their own, I am not knocking you for it so dont even try to call me "holier than thou" for expressing that opinion but its what I have seen from the beginning. I can only think of 6 or 7 of the people here that I would want to share a campfire with and I think that those guys know who they are.

If it makes you guys feel better to trash these opinions of mine then knock yourselves out, I could care less. Its too bad that you guys cant see the big picture and understand what I was wanting to convey but I should have known that some of you would act the way that you are acting. You guys have a good one, shoot straight and hunt hard and best of luck to yall in the future with whatever it is you want to succeed in but I think that this will be my last post and last time I visit the forum so if I am lucky the door will not hit me in the ass on the way out.

Drummond

As someone who's "been there", I have split feelings over this issue.

Like others have said, yes, I feel terrible that SPC Pat Tillman died in combat. However, keep in mind that he volunteered, at a critical time in history to be in the military. I'm sure he knew the risks associated with signing on that dotted line. I admire him for stepping up, and more so for attending (and passing) Ranger training, as I'm sure he knew it upped his chances for being put in harm's way.

But the other side of me says that EVERY soldier/airman/Marine/sailor is just as important.

Dozens of US troops have died in recent weeks in the fighting in Iraq. Can anybody name ONE of them? I doubt it. Is Pat Tillman more worthy of our sorrow than any of them?

It is still a very sore spot for me when people talk about PVT Jessica Lynch as a "hero", or when I see a book about her. What did she do to attain "hero" status? She is a young cute girl who was part of a mistake, couldn't defend herself OR those around her, and was taken POW. Others with her weren't so lucky.... Can anyone name anybody killed that day, or anybody taken POW with her? Again, she was an easy "poster child" to play on people's emotions. Was she more important than the others with her that day?

Not to dimish Pat Tillman's death, but there are lots of others, dying every day, who remain nameless and faceless. I think that they ALL deserve our gratitude...

I'm certain you realize that Pat Tillman might be exceptional by the amount of money he turned down and/or by the public notice that he got for doing so but he is only one of many fine men and women who are giving up time with families, careers and in some cases just as much money (not to mention their very lives).

Since 9/11/2001, the National Guard in the Commonwealth of Virginia has had an average of 1/3d of the assigned strength actively serving on state or federal duty each and every day. Even prior to that date, this state had sent infantry units to Bosnia (twice), the Israeli/Egyptian border, and afterwards to Gitmo and now an entire infantry battalion is preparing for deployment to the middle east. Even those few men and women who have not been deployed have worked many additional days in support of these deployments. ALL have sacrificed for us.

Now this isn't meant to demean the memory of Pat Tillman. He is only one of a great many who put this country before their own comfort and safety. I have a great many friends serving and I pray for them every day (sometimes several times a day). Not all will return to us, some have already died. I hope that come this election day, you will remember to vote and remember to vote for the man who best supports our nation and our ideals. Anything less WILL demean the service of these fine people.

---

How's that for political?

some guys come on this site just to see what type of shit they can arouse. I guess that is a byproduct of the internet we live with, sad but true there are some assholes out there.
Every soldier knows what it is like to be an American as soon as they set foot on foreign soil, war time or not. The liberals will condemm the conservatives and the the middle of the roaders will condemm both.
To be an American you must be willing to fight for the right of those that make your blood boil while they preach the opposite of what you believe in.
you want to do saomething to honor those who served an died/ Go to washington on Memorial Day weekend ( I'll be there)instead of flipping hot dogs on the grill or hunting turkeys. and be present at one of the war memorials. They are dedicateing the WWII monument/memorial that weekend. Show your support, don't make excuses as to why you can't. Do it!
sitting here typing out lines to be read by few surely isn't the way to honor Pat Tillman or anyother vet.
Be an American for just 1 day!

I dont know, it does kinda say we have our priorities all mixed up. It just dosnt show what anyone is doing offline.

While I'm sorry the guy is dead, I don't see this as the proper forum to involved in hero worship. He left the NFL to do what he thought was right and I salute him for that, but I come to this sight to get away from the military.

I've been a career military man for over 15 years. I spent most of the last year deployed to the Middle East. I don't remember seeing anybody post anything about the folks that died when I was there. He did his duty and he paid the price for all of his countrymen's freedoms, but he didn't do anything lots of other young men and women are also doing. To single him out for praise is to discredit all the others.

I'll mourn all the fallen heros in private. Not here.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Mac

BB,

"I served in WWII and Korea unfortunately I still carry the scars."

Would you be so kind as to tell us about that, perhaps in another thread?


Dan

Mac,

I served 27� years with too many years overseas. IMO, SPC Tillman's final duty may be to bring light on the sacrifices that ALL service men and women are making (and have made). It discredits no one to call attention to his sacrifice just as it discredits no one when their sacrifice is mentioned at their funerals. Tillman's is just a bit more public.

Drummond,

God bless you for your sense of decency and your sense of patriotism.

Well Said.

Seafire

I don't think the lack of post shows a lack of interest or response. What exactly would you have us say? His death should remind us that EVERY member of our Armed Forces is a hero and shouldn't have to die for us to remember that.

BB, gee, WW2 and Korea. Lets see, if you joined underage at 16 in 1945 that would make you around 75-76 or older. Pretty old for a guy that's still running around hustling free hunts and busting people's chops cause they don't hunt like he does.

DD: yes I served and am proud of it.I left a wife with a baby on the way for WWII, when I got drafted. got my legs shot up.
Korea was under way before my 2nd girl was born and I got recalled. In short order I was a POW .What you heard about prisoner treatment isn't all BS. it was nasty. 3 pals and I tried to escape and were caught. Punishment was sever to say the least. I didn't run again. Was released in a POW exchange.
Burns my ass to see the Liberals call for a recall and total pullout of our troops today. At least back when I was fighting the nation rallied behind us and politicans bit their tounges for the betterment of the country while the USA had troops under fire. BB

yes I'm pretty damm old, but thankfully I can still get my hunting done. and I still run a 8.5 minute mile and play a high 80's golf game too boot! Now if only the young chicks liked tall skinny gray haired retired lawyers I'd be happier than hell! BB.

Its not a sad day on the site. Its just proof that the american public is tired of hearing about american soldiers being killed for nothing. We're just getting started in a second viet nam is all.



Tillman was bored with football,he turned to marathons and that didn't work either.Plenty of people never figure out what the fuck they want to do with themselves,tillman was one of these people. I'm sure as with most people that go into the military,tillman believed war would be fun and someone else would get killed but not him. His brother like it or not,was basically a washout in the minor leagues and turned to the military,he followed his brother.



Yes,tillman gave up several million to join the rangers. Big deal,the guy had already made millions in the previous seasons with the NFL. He was already financially set. If he'd have lived,its safe to say he'd have probably gotten another football contract and enough endorsement jobs to make up for his losses in wages while in afghanistan. The NFL would love to promote the hero shit and tillman would have done well.





Tillmans death did one thing,it made clear that americans are still being killed in Afghanistan,even though iraq gets the headlines. Neither of these two fronts has jackshit to do with american freedoms. We still haven't caught the millionaire asshole in Afghanistan,thats really behind the terrorist threat and everyday,it becomes clear that we invaded iraq for the wrong reasons. All Iraq has done,is effectively pissed off every rag head cocksucker out there,just in case they weren't already pissed off at america. If we spent half as much time looking out for our freedoms in america,instead of trying to impose every politicians will, on every fucking rag head in the world. We wouldn't have any problems.



As for ballbuster. He was maybe at a PX once,WWII I highly doubt it. Ballbuster was a name given him as a result of giving one two many toothy blowjobs.

Whatever!!

Just because you tried to start a thread and it didn't take off like you thought it should doesn't mean much!

I served in the Navy and had friends die during "peacetime operations" and most people are clueless anything even happened over there. I was still in during Desert Shield / Storm and will NOT pay homage to a millionaire exfootball player over any one of the many who went before him !!

Yes, I am proud of him. As proud of him as many others. The word "Hero" has lost it's true meaning lately. It's not something to say about everyone wearing a uniform. Many are only doing the job. It's a whole new level of commitment, and accomplishment in the face of true adversity that proves who's a Hero.

As for the rest of your assumtion, I don't have an opinion about a wall tent. If you are going to use one and want to know whats best, ask an outfitter who uses them year after year.
I am an NRA member, as well as RMEF. I have supprted OHA, Mule deer Foundation, Oregon Trappers assoc. and others. I don't want any recognition for any of it, it's not why I do what I do.

I mourn the loss of every one of our people who are trying to do what they think is right for our country. Without the sacrifices made we wouldn't have much of anything.

There is nothing free about freedom!

I don't have any problem with your first post re: tribute to Tillman. I do have a problem with you telling me aboutou my priorities based on what I post on some internet forum. If you look at the views, you will see how many members were interested enough to view. To me that is more important than those who posted for the type thread it is.

I originally come from a small town of about 2800. I got their newspaper in last week and they were having "Captain _______ Day" in honor of a soldier coming home. I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with the reason being because he is the son of "high society" in town and not because of anything he did as a soldier. If I were other folks in town who had relatives in the service who had been there and come home safe or didn't come home at all, I would be a little bit resentful of honoring one soldier in that manner and the others get about five sentences on the back page of the paper giving basic bio.

JMO

Huntsonora,

No U.S. soldier that has died in the War On Terror was drafted! Everyone of them volunteered to serve there country and most if not all who made the ultimate sacrifice left behind family and friends.

Pat Tillman is a Hero and I will mourn his death along with the other fallen soldiers. I get the feeling though, that for you this guys money and oppurtunities to make plenty more is what set him apart from everyone else who has given there lives and made it realy sink in to your head that people are actualy dying in this war.

I have much respect for all our soldiers but it realy saddens me to realize, after all the publicity of Pat Tillmans death that money is held to a higher regard by many than family! That is the only thing that he left behind most others didn't.

The whole idea of a HERO is a classic double-edged sword....is a hero BETTER or more respectable or more deserving of gratitude than other fallen comrades?

I think when you peer below the thin veneer of spin and politics surroundind this whole mess, there are many very special young men and women... both dead and suffering...that are every bit as special as anyone we could call a hero.

You'll have to pardon me if I'm not exactly receptive to a lecture on patriotism from someone who apparently makes their living by siphoning off U.S. hunters' dollars to Mexico.

And, yes, I do mourn his loss - just as much as that of any American mother's son or daughter. No less, and certainly not more.

I'm not sure if you've been in the military before, or not. It doesn't sound like it, because if you had the first thing through your mind would have been along these lines:

"What the hell's so special about Tillman? My butt is/was hanging out just as far as his was, and nobody would have interviewed my friends and family on TV for days on end had I been unlucky enough to buy it!"

It's that simple.

RSY

pretty sure of yourself aren't you pup? what the hell would I have to gain on a big game thread by claiming to be one birthday short of the big 80 and a vet.
know what pup? i had you and jimmy figured out from the third post. You don't read people's statements for 45 years and not pickup a few tricks of the trade.
let me give you some advice...tonight when mommy says "ok lights out" wait till she's completely up the stairs before you start beating off, she knows what your doing

Give it up dipshit, your not fooling anyone.

and that came from the biggest TROLL on the internet, soon my bed time nite nite

I think it is sad to lose any servicemen regardless of background.

I never knew who he was so I never looked at the post.

Plus it didn't seem like a post that belonged in the big game forum so I didn't check it out.